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View Full Version : Most overrated former Red by RZ'ers?



fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Who would it be?

I haven't been here forever, but it seems like the ones that come up (or came up) the most are:

Chris Denorfia
Elizardo Ramirez
Wily Mo Pena
Ben Broussard
Austin Kearns

Who have I missed? Who would you rank highest?

I think the Lizard probably deserves the crown, based on what I've seen/read in the past.

REDREAD
04-28-2008, 04:42 PM
The Lizard and Denoforia are definitely a top contenders.

Oslwedo Fernandez was another one, predicted to be an ace by some, after a decent partial season.

Brandon Claussen was another "sure fire ace", despite coming off a major arm injury and being a very questionable prospect.

Rob Bell wasn't the most overrated, but he's probably between #10-20, as was Stynes.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Who would it be?

I haven't been here forever, but it seems like the ones that come up (or came up) the most are:

Chris Denorfia
Elizardo Ramirez
Wily Mo Pena
Ben Broussard
Austin Kearns

Who have I missed? Who would you rank highest?

I think the Lizard probably deserves the crown, based on what I've seen/read in the past.

I dunno. I think that list is accurate. More importantly, when Freel, Hopper, and Hatteberg leave, will they make the list?

Danny Serafini
04-28-2008, 04:44 PM
Do minor leaguers count, because if they do Milton Loo needs a place on the list.

15fan
04-28-2008, 04:44 PM
Juan Castro.

PuffyPig
04-28-2008, 04:48 PM
Felipe Lopez, hands down, even more so that Kearns.

Benihana
04-28-2008, 04:49 PM
Denorfia and Broussard are neck-in-neck as far as I'm concerned. I never understood the love affair with either, especially Deno. So far, history has proven me correct on Broussard, and I still think I'll be right on Deno.

Some ex-Reds personally overrated by me:

Russ Branyan
Bruce Chen
David Espinosa
Brandon Claussen
Corey Patterson??

acredsfan
04-28-2008, 04:52 PM
I dunno. I think that list is accurate. More importantly, when Freel, Hopper, and Hatteberg leave, will they make the list?
I don't think Hatteberg is on that list, he was a very good 1st baseman, but he's just being replaced by an even better one. I would think you have to be a disappointing player to make the list, at least the way I look at it.

Felipe Lopez was definitely overrated IMO. You can say what you want about Krivsky not listening to advisers about "the trade", but those advisers definitely overvalued Kearns and Lopez.

One player I really liked at the time was Alex Ochoa. He never really turned into anything, but he showed some power and had one of the best arms I have ever seen in person.

I also wasn't around Redszone at the time of Pokey Reese, but he seems to be a likely type of candidate.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 04:53 PM
Brandon Claussen was another "sure fire ace", despite coming off a major arm injury and being a very questionable prospect.


I was up in the booth for his debut. I couldn't stay the whole game (it was a day game) because I had to work, so I took advantage of the perk.

I bought into the hype :lol:

lollipopcurve
04-28-2008, 04:56 PM
I overrate most of them because they're Reds.

My biggest miss was Lopez.

In my experience on the site Denorfia wins the grand prize.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 04:56 PM
I also wasn't around Redszone at the time of Pokey Reese, but he seems to be a likely type of candidate.

How could we forget Pokey, he of the website and all the hype that surrounded him. Good call.

Wheelhouse
04-28-2008, 04:59 PM
Aaron Boone. Heart in my throat every time he threw the ball. Swung like a 40 HR guy, but actually was a 20 HR guy (max). Flipped the fans the bird. Loved by Redszone. See ya!

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 05:00 PM
Eric Milton....oh wait

Chip R
04-28-2008, 05:00 PM
Tim Hummell.

George Anderson
04-28-2008, 05:02 PM
I found this site in August of 06' and I couldn't get over the incredible amount of love the site had for Chris Denorfia.

gm
04-28-2008, 05:02 PM
Roberto Petagine and DT Cromer...oops, wrong Red's chat

Hoosier Red
04-28-2008, 05:04 PM
I think you have to distinguish between overrated before they came to the Reds and overrated after they left.

Once you have to set up the scale based on 1. number of posters overrating player, and 2. Actual performance of player since being dealt.

High on list #1: Denorfia, Broussard, Kearns, Lopez
High on list #2(High being lesser performance): Lizard, Broussard, Lopez

My number one player is Lopez followed closely by Broussard.

Rojo
04-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Roberto Petagine and DT Cromer...oops, wrong Red's chat


And maybe Larson?

RFS62
04-28-2008, 05:15 PM
http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/7/o/2/bender.jpg

reds44
04-28-2008, 05:28 PM
Chris Denorfia, and it's really not even close.

I don't think you can say redszone over Lopez when you consider he made an All-Star Game.

princeton
04-28-2008, 05:30 PM
lotta Coffey drinkers out there

I drank the (Willie) Greene Kool-aid.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 05:32 PM
Reggie Taylor :D

15fan
04-28-2008, 05:32 PM
I'll also throw out Jacobo Sequea.

When he was thrown in with Ryan for Juan Guzman, boy were there some worked up folks.

But that's going back a couple of message boards.

acredsfan
04-28-2008, 05:34 PM
Chris Denorfia, and it's really not even close.

I don't think you can say redszone over Lopez when you consider he made an All-Star Game.
A lot of players make an All-Star game then drop off. One All-Star nomination doesn't make you a good player, it may even prove you were overrated by fans or other coaches.

redsfan30
04-28-2008, 05:34 PM
Redszone as a whole? Chris Denorfia, and as reds44 said, it's not even close.

Personally? I really bought into Brandon Claussen.

acredsfan
04-28-2008, 05:36 PM
Reggie Taylor :D
I was trying to remember his name, man he was really overrated. Tracey Jones had him penciled into the Reds starting lineup for years to come.

MrCinatit
04-28-2008, 05:42 PM
I remember there was a lot of speculation a couple of days just before "the trade" went down - if I am not mistaken, there were a lot of rumors that Kearns and Lopez would be dealt for Willis and Cabrera. I think one scenario even had Tejado coming over for those two, with perhaps the lost of a couple of fringe prospects at most.
The fact that any of us (including myself) even thought it was a remote possibility shows how overrated those two were.

I remember many being irate when Denorfia got traded to Oakland last year - despite the fact he was already going to miss the entire year. He does not seem to be dominating the AL so far, but it is early.

Wasn't there some thought that Ryan Wagner was going to be the "think of the future"?

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 05:45 PM
Ryan Wagner was the going to be the next great closer....

Now his arm has fallen off

NJReds
04-28-2008, 06:09 PM
lotta Coffey drinkers out there


I think that Coffey is a guy that a lot of people were rooting for, plus his brother was posting on the site. He had great numbers in AAA and IIRC he started off really well in his ML debut (until they tried him at closer).

I don't think he ever approached Denorfia-level affection.

Unassisted
04-28-2008, 06:14 PM
Felipe Lopez, hands down, even more so that Kearns.Right players, but wrong order. Kearns gets the most inordinate amount of love here because hails from an hour south on I-75 and he preferred to play for the Reds.

bucksfan
04-28-2008, 06:26 PM
Speaking only for myself :

- Kearns (by far)
- the Lizard

KronoRed
04-28-2008, 06:43 PM
Greg Vaughn.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 06:46 PM
Ty Howington :eek:

cincrazy
04-28-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't know what the general Redszone consensus was regarding Ryan Wagner at the time, but I thought that guy was going to be a lights out closer.

Oops

OldXOhio
04-28-2008, 06:56 PM
Chris Denorfia, and it's really not even close.



Gets my vote. I still don't get it.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Chris Denorfia was God's gift to AAAA players....(at least here - we'll see what happens in Oakland)

MikeS21
04-28-2008, 07:14 PM
I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I got suckered in by Ricardo Aramboles! :eek:

I never did see the reason for all the infatuation with Denorfia. And I definitely am convinced all the irritation over losing Kearns and Lopez in "The Trade" was extremely overblown.

Rojo
04-28-2008, 07:28 PM
Gookie Dawkins. Broke the shortstop chain. Damn.

RedFanAlways1966
04-28-2008, 09:51 PM
I never did see the reason for all the infatuation with Denorfia.

IMO it had as much to do with replacing Griffey in CF (for defense) as it did with anything else. I am a big Junior fan, but even I must admit that it was painful to watch him defensively in CF that last season. The die-hards were desparate for a glove and speed in the middle of the outfield.

top6
04-28-2008, 10:06 PM
Greg Vaughn.
Is this sarcastic? How was he overrated? He hit 40+ home runs and was the leader on the best Reds team of the last 10 years. The Reds have basically had one good year since 1995, and it was the only year he was on the team.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Tim Hummel ;)

CrackerJack
04-28-2008, 10:16 PM
Speaking only for myself :

- Kearns (by far)
- the Lizard

Agree with that.

Belisle is gaining ground fast though.

D-Man
04-28-2008, 11:09 PM
Zach Ward. Waaay too much enthusiasm for an A-ball pitcher.

REDREAD
04-28-2008, 11:20 PM
How could we forget Pokey, he of the website and all the hype that surrounded him. Good call.

I think he was overrated in general, but Pokey didn't get that much love from Redszoners/Fastballers (I forget where we were then). He was generally viewed as a poor hitter that played just because of his glove.

Some of these choices are interesting. I guess people interpret overrated differently, but that makes for good reading.

Spitball
04-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Far and away, it has to be Denorfia, for me anyway. I remember watching the guy and thinking, "This guy is no more than a number four outfielder." I expressed as much on the board and was soundly put down for my opinion. Time will tell (though he has to be at least twenty-six) , but I'll stick by my initial impression. He ran nice (but not superior) outfield routes, and everything else seemed to have a pretty average ceiling.

REDREAD
04-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Aaron Boone. Heart in my throat every time he threw the ball. Swung like a 40 HR guy, but actually was a 20 HR guy (max). Flipped the fans the bird. Loved by Redszone. See ya!


Graves flipped off the fans, not Aaron, as I remember.. I thought Aaron left with tears in his eyes.

REDREAD
04-28-2008, 11:24 PM
Agree with that.

Belisle is gaining ground fast though.

Good point on Belisle. He's gotten a ton of love since he arrived.

SirFelixCat
04-28-2008, 11:40 PM
Denorfia or Larson

Sabo Fan
04-28-2008, 11:58 PM
Me personally: Austin Kearns. I still believe he'll be a good OF, but just isn't going to approach the level I thought he would.

I also was a huge Josh Hall fan. Really thought the Reds had found something there that no one was paying attention to. Might have been useful if his health didn't betray him time and time again.

The Board in general: yeah, Denorfia is probably tops, but I remember a few years back a certain Jose Acevedo being heralded as a coming ace. One game thread in particular where the ACE in Acevedo was emphasized. Probably was a small, devoted group, but that one always stuck in my head.

savafan
04-29-2008, 12:05 AM
I gotta believe it's Broussard.

KronoRed
04-29-2008, 01:17 AM
Is this sarcastic? How was he overrated? He hit 40+ home runs and was the leader on the best Reds team of the last 10 years. The Reds have basically had one good year since 1995, and it was the only year he was on the team.

No sarcasm at all, every year it seems we hear how the team needs a Greg Vaughn on it, and while hits 45HRs were nice he wasn't the only guy on that 99 team to have a great year, if he'd been around in 2000 I doubt his "leadership" would have resulted in that many more wins, besides..that 99 team although very exciting and along with JR one of the big reasons I became a Reds fan lost 4 of their last 5 to fail to even reach the playoffs.

Topcat
04-29-2008, 06:35 AM
Who would it be?

I haven't been here forever, but it seems like the ones that come up (or came up) the most are:

Chris Denorfia
Elizardo Ramirez
Wily Mo Pena
Ben Broussard
Austin Kearns

Who have I missed? Who would you rank highest?

I think the Lizard probably deserves the crown, based on what I've seen/read in the past.

Kearns and Willy Mo in recent times. Both had the proclamation of Babe Ruth and DiMaggio tied upon there names.

Falls City Beer
04-29-2008, 08:58 AM
Wayne Krivsky

cumberlandreds
04-29-2008, 09:06 AM
If there had been an RZ in the 70's it would have been Dave Revering.

gonelong
04-29-2008, 10:19 AM
I think the Denorfia backlash is a little out of hand. :D

The prevailing opinion at the time was that Denorfia was a good bet to be a league average center fielder with the bat, cheap, and more than adequate defensively. I wish the Reds had taken the opportunity to play him to find out if he could handle a full season.

Currently he is hitting 283/365/326/691. I'd take that 365 OBP% in the leadoff slot, his defense in CF, and his $400K salary. (Provided the Reds had given him the opportunity to prove he could handle it.)

GL

jojo
04-29-2008, 10:22 AM
My vote for most misunderstood player because he's both the most overrated and the most underrated Red depending upon which camp you're conversing with..............



:dunn:

George Anderson
04-29-2008, 10:25 AM
If there had been an RZ in the 70's it would have been Dave Revering.

I'd say Champ Summers

top6
04-29-2008, 10:37 AM
No sarcasm at all, every year it seems we hear how the team needs a Greg Vaughn on it, and while hits 45HRs were nice he wasn't the only guy on that 99 team to have a great year, if he'd been around in 2000 I doubt his "leadership" would have resulted in that many more wins, besides..that 99 team although very exciting and along with JR one of the big reasons I became a Reds fan lost 4 of their last 5 to fail to even reach the playoffs.
I don't get it. He put up great numbers that year, and by all accounts was a great, in-your-face leader. But I guess we will have to agree to disagree. (I will say, though, looking at his numbers, well let's just say there is a very strange and dramatic jump in performance, almost as if he suddenly found some substance that assisted him in hitting baseballs better.)

BCubb2003
04-29-2008, 10:40 AM
That whole Chris Denorfia/Chuck Norris thing was getting kind of weird after all.

Team Clark
04-29-2008, 10:44 AM
1. Lopez
2. Denorfia
3. Kearns
4. Claussen
5. Greene
6. Coffey
7. Larson
8. Wagner
9. Dawkins
10. Rose Jr.

RFS62
04-29-2008, 11:19 AM
That whole Chris Denorfia/Chuck Norris thing was getting kind of weird after all.


Yeah, I always thought most of us were kidding when we were joking around about Deno. Apparently not.

RedsManRick
04-29-2008, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I always thought most of us were kidding when we were joking around about Deno. Apparently not.

The whole Deno love-fest was more about attacking a management group than any thought that he was going to be a star. Many of us figured, and I still believe, that had he gotten sufficient opportunity when he was ready (age 24-25) that he'd be a .750-.775 OPS bat with very good CF defense through his prime. That's not amazing, but it's pretty valuable. Heck, it's what we're paying Corey Patterson $3M to do.

The Reds turned him in to a converted OF RP who they won't promote and the cash to buy out Rheal Cormier. The entire Deno hype was less about him specifically than about the Reds not properly using an asset.

Always Red
04-29-2008, 01:19 PM
For me it was Paul Householder (pre-RZ days, I know).

I thought he was going to be the next Mickey Mantle.

TOBTTReds
04-29-2008, 01:52 PM
Austin Kearns. Maybe because I never really liked him and others here thought he was a perrenial All Star. He gets the Jimmy Binnie award. For those Flyers fans out here know what I mean. Binnie avg'd 6 pts his Sr. year, 4 pts his Fr-Jr. year. Many Flyers fans thought he was star, and a great shooter. Many of them still believe this even after his last game as a Flyer this year. I'm a die hard Flyer fan, so I'm not a rival fan taking a shot at them.

marcshoe
04-29-2008, 03:29 PM
Kearns. The Deno bit was largely joking, and Wily Mo was full of potential, but there was always an element of doubt. Kearns seemed like a sure thing.

Who knows, maybe some day....

NJReds
04-29-2008, 03:56 PM
For me it was Paul Householder (pre-RZ days, I know).

I thought he was going to be the next Mickey Mantle.

And Gary Redus was going to be Willie Mays. :thumbup:

I was right there with you.

Scrap Irony
04-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Redus and Householder, yes and yes.

Frank Pastore and Bruce Berenyii, too.

Add in Dann Billardello to my own personal Wall of Shame.

As for Redszone as a whole, no doubt it's Dunn on the current team. He's given pretty much a free pass by some more knowledgeable fans on ORG because of his "Old Man" skills. (Of course, in the Sun Deck, they crucify him.)

As for ex-Reds, Kearns was considered by some (blush) to be similar to HOF RF such as former Tiger Al Kaline. Deno was merely considered a probable All Star by others.

Hap
04-29-2008, 04:44 PM
Graves flipped off the fans...

IIRC, a fan or a group of fans was heckling him about his Vietnamese heritage and insinuating that his mother was a prostitute for American soldiers.

Always Red
04-29-2008, 05:00 PM
And Gary Redus was going to be Willie Mays. :thumbup:

I was right there with you.

Gary Redus, pop-up/fly-out machine. If Gary would have learned to hit the ball on the ground....

Redus was more talented, and wound up having a much longer career than Householder did, IIRC.

NJReds
04-29-2008, 05:07 PM
Gary Redus, pop-up/fly-out machine. If Gary would have learned to hit the ball on the ground....

Redus was more talented, and wound up having a much longer career than Householder did, IIRC.

I just looked Redus up on baseball-reference.com. I didn't realize that he played for 12 years. He was on the Pirate teams that lost to the Reds in the playoffs in 90; and lost to the Braves in 91-92.

He also stole over 300 bases.

Rojo
04-29-2008, 05:48 PM
Redus and Householder, yes and yes.

Frank Pastore and Bruce Berenyii, too.

Add in Dann Billardello to my own personal Wall of Shame.

Add in Eddie Milner, Tommy Lawless and Joe Price and you've got a never-was dynasty that wins every year in a parallel uinverse.

marcshoe
04-29-2008, 06:03 PM
If we're going back to pre-Redszone days there's always Santo Alcala, Steve Henderson, Doug Flynn, Manny Sarmiento, Tom Carroll, Bernie Carbo....and later on, the guy the Reds should've kept instead of Larkin, Kurt Stilwell.

MrCinatit
04-29-2008, 06:12 PM
If there had been an RZ in the 70's it would have been Dave Revering.

Ed Armbrister - could have had a great on base percentage had he bunted more often.

gm
04-29-2008, 08:10 PM
And maybe Larson?

Guilty. The 10 year-old SN article where BL said he "eats, sleeps and craps baseball" was my buy in

(I eventually dropped that stock, wayyy too late)

Chip R
04-29-2008, 08:12 PM
Guilty. The 10 year-old SN article where BL said he "eats, sleeps and craps baseball" was my buy in

(I eventually dropped that stock, wayyy too late)


Ah, yes, I remember it well. :)

gm
04-29-2008, 08:22 PM
As for ex-Reds, Kearns was considered by some (blush) to be similar to HOF RF such as former Tiger Al Kaline.

I also made that comp. Hey, after the '02 season, who could blame us?

At the time someone (princeton? westofyou?) mentioned something to the effect of "why don't we wait about 10 years before comparing AK Jr. to AK Sr.?"

(and now we know why...)

BTW, I still like my Dunn = McCovey comp...except for the "Stretch will switch to 1b" part

Big Klu
04-29-2008, 08:29 PM
The Deno bit was largely joking

You really think so? Because although the Denorfia/Chuck Norris schtick seemed to be a joke, I always got the feeling that people were serious about him being a cornerstone in the OF and a major contributor in the future. On the other hand, I figured that he was fourth OF material--yet another in the long line of Steve Gibralter-Mike Frank-Pat Watkins type players, and if he were lucky, he might have a career like Brady Clark. I was all for giving him a shot in RF after Kearns was traded, and I would have been willing to give him a chance in CF instead of Freel at the beginning of last season, but then he suffered the injury and the point became moot.

gm
04-29-2008, 08:44 PM
If we're going back to pre-Redszone days there's always Santo Alcala, Steve Henderson, Doug Flynn, Manny Sarmiento, Tom Carroll, Bernie Carbo....and later on, the guy the Reds should've kept instead of Larkin, Kurt Stilwell.


and don't forget Hal McRae

wolfboy
04-29-2008, 08:44 PM
Me personally: Austin Kearns. I still believe he'll be a good OF, but just isn't going to approach the level I thought he would.

I also was a huge Josh Hall fan. Really thought the Reds had found something there that no one was paying attention to. Might have been useful if his health didn't betray him time and time again.

The Board in general: yeah, Denorfia is probably tops, but I remember a few years back a certain Jose Acevedo being heralded as a coming ace. One game thread in particular where the ACE in Acevedo was emphasized. Probably was a small, devoted group, but that one always stuck in my head.

Jose Acevedo and Ben Broussard.

Always Red
04-29-2008, 08:50 PM
and don't forget Hal McRae

Yes, the Reds should have kept Hal; he is certainly not overrated: 2000 career hits and 1000 RBI.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcraeha01.shtml

Quick (before you look!) who was he traded for??

PS- had they kept him, where would he have played on the BRM? Maybe LF, and no need for George Foster? ;)

gm
04-29-2008, 09:02 PM
Yes, the Reds should have kept Hal; he is certainly not overrated: 2000 career hits and 1000 RBI.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcraeha01.shtml

Quick (before you look!) who was he traded for??

PS- had they kept him, where would he have played on the BRM? Maybe LF, and no need for George Foster? ;)

Maybe LF, or maybe platoon with Griffey in RF. But Howsam probably knew HM's knees were made for DH-ing and not running into OF walls. Still, it's always hard to watch one of your team's former players getting over

(Kinda like how princeton picked Lance Berkman in his draft instead of Brandon Larson? Ouchie)

I don't have time to look...I'm guessing a pitcher for Hal...Leibrant?

Always Red
04-29-2008, 09:11 PM
I don't have time to look...I'm guessing a pitcher for Hal...Leibrant?

I did look: packaged with Wayne Simpson for Roger Nelson and Richie Scheinblum.

PS- I had a chance to meet and talk with Johnny Bench a couple of years ago at a local HS sports stag, and I asked him who threw the hardest of all the pitcher he ever caught. He never hesitated: "Wayne Simpson wore me out." He said it was a shame Simpson hurt his shoulder, because he would have been one of the best Reds pitchers ever. Simpson's rotator cuff injury is something that was not able to be repaired back then, but is today.

Simpson also suffered from being overused- The Reds ultimately had a role in ruining his arm by having him pitch 162 innings in Triple AAA Indianapolis in 1969, followed up with 151 innings in winter ball in Puerto Rico. Then, he pitches 40 innings in Spring Training , then 147 innings by the All-Star break, which is a total of 499 innings, in a year and a half.

That makes those 129 pitches thrown in a game by Arroyo last year seem like nothing!

Rojo
04-29-2008, 09:17 PM
Guilty. The 10 year-old SN article where BL said he "eats, sleeps and craps baseball" was my buy in

(I eventually dropped that stock, wayyy too late)

Yes, I only remember the gaffes.

marcshoe
04-30-2008, 09:53 AM
Yes, the Reds should have kept Hal; he is certainly not overrated: 2000 career hits and 1000 RBI.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcraeha01.shtml

Quick (before you look!) who was he traded for??

PS- had they kept him, where would he have played on the BRM? Maybe LF, and no need for George Foster? ;)


I originally had Nelson and Scheinblum on my list, but took them off because I figure Redszone would have eaten them alive.

McRae I didn't include because he was really pretty good, iirc.

RFS62
04-30-2008, 10:07 AM
Dan Dreissen's replacement of Doggie would have been epic if RedsZone were around back then.

George Anderson
04-30-2008, 10:10 AM
Dan Dreissen's replacement of Doggie would have been epic if RedsZone were around back then.

That would have been big but I don't think as big as Dick Wagner letting Pete leave after the 78' season.

MrCinatit
04-30-2008, 03:48 PM
That would have been big but I don't think as big as Dick Wagner letting Pete leave after the 78' season.

...and imagine the reaction after Sparky had been fired.

marcshoe
04-30-2008, 03:51 PM
Probably similar to my reaction off the board. I think my young brain collapsed in on itself; I naively didn't believe such things could happen.

princeton
04-30-2008, 04:17 PM
Cueto's not a former Red, I suppose.

Matt700wlw
04-30-2008, 04:21 PM
Adam Dunn....

(ducks for cover)

:)

Highlifeman21
04-30-2008, 05:56 PM
The whole Deno love-fest was more about attacking a management group than any thought that he was going to be a star. Many of us figured, and I still believe, that had he gotten sufficient opportunity when he was ready (age 24-25) that he'd be a .750-.775 OPS bat with very good CF defense through his prime. That's not amazing, but it's pretty valuable. Heck, it's what we're paying Corey Patterson $3M to do.

The Reds turned him in to a converted OF RP who they won't promote and the cash to buy out Rheal Cormier. The entire Deno hype was less about him specifically than about the Reds not properly using an asset.

That is the crux of my feelings on Chris Denorfia.

Kearns was traded which paved the way for Denorfia to get a chance to show what he could do. He was given a week.

Then he showed what he could do in a September call-up (very well, I might add), and then hurt himself in Spring Training the following year.

Now he's an Oakland A, and in return we have a middle reliever that will most likely rot (unfairly) in AAA.

Always Red
04-30-2008, 10:15 PM
The whole Deno love-fest was more about attacking a management group than any thought that he was going to be a star. Many of us figured, and I still believe, that had he gotten sufficient opportunity when he was ready (age 24-25) that he'd be a .750-.775 OPS bat with very good CF defense through his prime. That's not amazing, but it's pretty valuable. Heck, it's what we're paying Corey Patterson $3M to do.

The Reds turned him in to a converted OF RP who they won't promote and the cash to buy out Rheal Cormier. The entire Deno hype was less about him specifically than about the Reds not properly using an asset.

:clap::clap:

cincinnati chili
05-01-2008, 01:36 AM
Dan Dreissen's replacement of Doggie would have been epic if RedsZone were around back then.

I was 5.

But I do vividly remember Milner/Householder/Cedeno/Hurdle replacing Foster/Griffey/Collins.

I have been more wrong about Ben Broussard than any other Reds player.

I refuse to admit I was wrong about Petagine, because he never got a real chance.

Rojo
05-01-2008, 02:56 PM
I was 5.

But I do vividly remember Milner/Householder/Cedeno/Hurdle replacing Foster/Griffey/Collins.

I have been more wrong about Ben Broussard than any other Reds player.

I refuse to admit I was wrong about Petagine, because he never got a real chance.

There seems to be a pile of atheletically-challenged lefty hitting DH/1B/OF types that the BP crowd gets wrong, or partially wrong. I was sure that Billy Joe Robidoux was going to be a star. Throw him on the pile.