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reds44
04-28-2008, 06:54 PM
Ryan Freel isn't in the lineup for tonight's game with Cardinals. I approached him for a "Gee, you're hitting well" note. I got a little more of a story.

Freel is angry and frustrated.

"I'm trying to be careful about what I say,” Freel said. “I've really got nothing good to say right now. There was a lot of stuff said that misinterpreted or mis-communicated this offseason."

"It would have stunned a lot of people if they heard what was said about me. Apparently, I said I couldn't play every day to the manager. Apparently, I told him that this offseason. That would have never come out of mouth."

Therein lies the problem. Freel thinks that Dusty Baker misunderstanding of something Freel said led to some of the moves the Reds made -- like bringing in Corey Patterson to play center field and leadoff.

"I talked to Wayne (Krivsky) to tell him I didn't say that," Freel said. "I would never in a million years say that. They gave me a two-year ($7 million) deal. I don't think it was to do this. It's frustrating. I can't explain it. There’s a lot going on. It's a shame that I had to address it like this. I didn't want to get the media involved."

Freel and Baker have talked.

"It was a misunderstanding," Baker said. "I thought it was over. It's over as far as I'm concerned."

But Freel remains frustrated. He's clearly outhit Patterson lately. Freel was 5-for-11 with two doubles and three RBI in the San Francisco series. He's made eight starts. He's had hits in last seven. He's hitting .387 with a .424 on-base percentage in his starts.

Freel admits he wasn't very good last year. But he spent most of the year injured or coming back from injuries.

"I wouldn't talk about this if we were winning. But we're losing. This isn't team we are. We're not an under .500 team. It's kind of hard to do anything about it when you're sitting around playing only every four days. I wasn't the issue before last year.”

Freel hit .245 with .308 on-base last year with 15 steals.

"They never gave me an opportunity to come in and rebound from last year."
From Fay

Freel is singing quite a different tune than he was last year with Josh Hamilton. Obviously he doesn't think as highly of Patterson or Hairston. Interesting, but I just don't think Freel has any legs to stand on right now.

WMR
04-28-2008, 06:58 PM
Jesus H., Fay, I haven't read an "article" that rife with grammatical errors in quite some time.

Wow! Awful! Freel can't put a correct sentence together? I doubt that. Pathetic.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-28-2008, 07:00 PM
I like Freel(obviously, look at my name), but he's not a good enough player to be making complaints about playing time. However, I can completely understand why he would be frustrated with the situation.

Hopefully he keeps hitting when he IS starting so they can move him out for something of value.

jesusfan
04-28-2008, 07:06 PM
You just knew that Freel and Hatteberg would stir up the pot before too long. I think Hatteberg is just frustrated about the fact that he isn't a very good pinch-hitter and needs to be somewhere else so he can get playing time. Freel has a little bit of an argument with Patterson and Hairston, but he has to know that he isn't going to get any PT in about 2 weeks anyways, with Bruce on the heels of arrival...

Trade Freel and Hatteberg yesterday for minor league talent, or a decent right handed bat....

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2008, 07:07 PM
Jesus H., Fay, I haven't read an "article" that rife with grammatical errors in quite some time.

Wow! Awful! Freel can't put a correct sentence together? I doubt that. Pathetic.

Usually I don't correct others for mistakes like that because, well, my grammer is horrible, but that article was painful to read. Goodness.

princeton
04-28-2008, 07:11 PM
:) Dusty's just got to keep him away from those that are undecided

Falls City Beer
04-28-2008, 07:15 PM
Another benefit of Jocketty: he'll bring in position players for whom there is little arguing about who deserves to play. Walt likes his starters to really be starters.

RFS62
04-28-2008, 07:17 PM
I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of turnover in the roster, especially given how many free agents we've got.

Kc61
04-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Freel, Hatteberg, Phillips. Understandable that they aren't happy with their roles, the press, etc.

But imagine how us life-long Reds fans feel.

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 07:19 PM
Watch that sly ole fox boys and girls and I don't mean Freel.



"It was a misunderstanding," Baker said. "I thought it was over. It's over as far as I'm concerned."


“Apparently, I said I couldn't play every day to the manager. Apparently, I told him that this off season. That would have never come out of mouth."

That reminds me of the comments that Jay Bruce had to refute and rebuff when Dusty was spinning that Bruce had a history of leg problems in spring training.

I recall reading where Bruce went to them and told them that wasn’t true, Bruce was competing for the centerfield position at the time. At the time of cuts Bruce was to have said, “someday I will look back upon this and just laugh”. I thought at the time that, that was a little out of character for him, and that it appeared that he was being a bit snarky, I wondered then if he had gotten caught in some power struggle or politics.

Now with Freel’s comments, I think they both got hosed by an incoming manger that wanted his cub factor with the Reds at any cost.

Now we read that Freel is upset over a taking of liberty with words, that effected his playing time, that he is trying to refute, and basically saying that someone, a manager lied about him.

Freel telling them he can't play, is way out of character for him, as crazy as he is to play, and Bruce with a history of leg problems, both are false, why in a form of office politics would one say those things, create those fabrications, those misrepresentations?

I wonder what Hatteberg could tell us if had choosen another route to disclose his unhappiness?

Highlifeman21
04-28-2008, 07:20 PM
So should we expect a mass exodus from the Queen City now that Walt's the new sheriff?

Kc61
04-28-2008, 07:20 PM
You just knew that Freel and Hatteberg would stir up the pot before too long. I think Hatteberg is just frustrated about the fact that he isn't a very good pinch-hitter and needs to be somewhere else so he can get playing time. Freel has a little bit of an argument with Patterson and Hairston, but he has to know that he isn't going to get any PT in about 2 weeks anyways, with Bruce on the heels of arrival...

Trade Freel and Hatteberg yesterday for minor league talent, or a decent right handed bat....


I understand how Freel feels, but he doesn't have much of an argument. Just watch Patterson play centerfield. End of argument.

LINEDRIVER
04-28-2008, 07:25 PM
If Freel is actually angry and frustrated, then I can say I feel that same kind of pain. I often feel anger and frustration when I watch him attempt to run the bases. He seems to have a knack for getting picked off, thrown out, tagged out in a run down, caught stealing, etc. :rolleyes:

RFS62
04-28-2008, 07:29 PM
If Freel is actually angry and frustrated, then I can say I feel that same kind of pain. I often feel anger and frustration when I watch him attempt to run the bases. He seems to have a knack for getting picked off, thrown out, tagged out in a run down, caught stealing, etc.


No kidding.

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 07:32 PM
I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of turnover in the roster, especially given how many free agents we've got.

I do too, I think that credibility and trust has been damaged, I think the issue went deeper than a Krivsky firing.

Chip R
04-28-2008, 07:34 PM
There's a place in the world for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend he refuses to crawl
And he's always at home with his back to the wall
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost
And struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross
And likes to be known as the angry young man

Give a moment or two to the angry young man
With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand
He's been stabbed in the back he's been misunderstood
It's a comfort to know his intentions are good
And he sits in his room with a lock on the door
With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor
And he likes to be known as the angry young man

I believe I've passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight
I once believed in causes too
I had my pointless point of view
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right

And there's always a place for the angry young man
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand
And he's never been able to learn from mistakes
So he can't understand why his heart always breaks
And his honor is pure and his courage is well
And he's fair and he's true and he's boring as hell
And he'll go to the grave as an angry old man

Yes there's always a place for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend he refuses to crawl
And he's always at home with his back to the wall
And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost
And struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross
And likes to be known as the angry young man

Billy Joel

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 07:35 PM
So should we expect a mass exodus from the Queen City now that Walt's the new sheriff?

Phillips, Hatteberg, Freel and Bruce live in a world that they have to be very careful about what they say and disclose. The fact that some of this is leaking out, I should say oozing out is an indicator that something more and deeper is wrong and going on. More will come and be exposed over time.

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 07:47 PM
Is it just me or does John Fay seem intent on stirring the pot in the clubhouse?

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 07:50 PM
Is it just me or does John Fay seem intent on stirring the pot in the clubhouse?

Old farmers use to tell me that, "if you see one rat in the light of day, there are seven more hiding in the dark". Fay is just reporting, Freel is trying to disclose, Phillips is trying to disclose, and Hatteberg is trying to disclose.

Time will tell what.

Always Red
04-28-2008, 07:51 PM
Is it just me or does John Fay seem intent on stirring the pot in the clubhouse?

If Fay doesn't report on this after he interviewed Freel, then he just isn't doing his job.

Fay isn't my favorite (I miss C Trent and the Post), but he is just the messenger here, IMO.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 07:54 PM
"Apparently, I said I couldn't play every day to the manager. Apparently, I told him that this offseason. That would have never come out of mouth."


Well, I hate to break it to you, Freel....but you can't. You're lucky Bruce hasn't gotten the call yet.

You wear down, you get hurt, you get sloppy, you make boneheaded mistakes. The hustle is great though!

I would maybe ride him a little bit since he is hitting better than Patterson at the moment, at least until he cools off

redsmetz
04-28-2008, 08:11 PM
If Fay doesn't report on this after he interviewed Freel, then he just isn't doing his job.

Fay isn't my favorite (I miss C Trent and the Post), but he is just the messenger here, IMO.

I understand, but for about a year or so, it feels like Fay's trying to make the story himself. It's just my opinion, but he seems as if he tries to stir things up from time to time. Just my humble opinion.

Spring~Fields
04-28-2008, 08:13 PM
Well, I hate to break it to you, Freel....but you can't. You're lucky Bruce hasn't gotten the call yet.

You wear down, you get hurt, you get sloppy, you make boneheaded mistakes. The hustle is great though!

I would maybe ride him a little bit since he is hitting better than Patterson at the moment, at least until he cools off

Freel, Hatteberg, Ross, Hopper and Valentin, they are not getting much playing time here and their numbers reflect that to me. Bruce isn’t getting any playing time here. I don’t know what happened to Hopper, all of a sudden he is on the DL with a alleged injury.
Bray was held down in AAA due to an alleged injury after Dusty questioned his experience in spring training in lieu of the older pitchers getting the call to make the team out of spring training.

Former older Cubs are getting the playing time and call ups. Patterson regardless of his poor showing at leadoff before he came to Cincy and after he came, Hairston received the call up and immediately received ample playing time in centerfield no less and then second and ss, of them Bako has done well and is playing over his head, thank fully.

Remember when Ross was upset about being sent down or out on rehab, apparently he thought that it wasn't necessary, I wonder hm.

When did Patterson and Hairston become so good, did they have their past records and history expunged from the baseball stats?

The team has been terrible, the schedule and Zito gave them a break in San Francisco.

GAC
04-28-2008, 08:17 PM
If Freel is actually angry and frustrated, then I can say I feel that same kind of pain. I often feel anger and frustration when I watch him attempt to run the bases. He seems to have a knack for getting picked off, thrown out, tagged out in a run down, caught stealing, etc. :rolleyes:

Very true; but isn't that the type of aggressive play that Dusty wants? ;)

Patterson is obviously the superior defensive CFer. But his hitting is a huge question mark (as usual), yet Dusty says he's matured and a "changed" ballplayer. Yet to see it IMO.

15fan
04-28-2008, 08:19 PM
The Reds are 11-15, and 5th in a 6 team division.

Players are angry and frustrated.

I say that's the way it ought to be.

When you're finding ways to lose, it shouldn't be rainbows, gumdrops and lollipops.

Matt700wlw
04-28-2008, 08:22 PM
I'll give you that....I'm glad to see some emotion.

Now I need to see some wins.

WVRedsFan
04-28-2008, 09:06 PM
My take:

1. Fay is a reporter. When a player tells him something "on the record", it's his job to print it. If he doesn't he's not doing his job. Any reporter who informs the public is not "stirring the pot."

2. Freel and Hatteberg are frustrated with their playing time. Each manager has players he feels like he has a better chance of winning with. Baker things that Freel and Hatt are not who he wants -- who he thinks he has the best chance of winning with. Not that I agree, but that's the way it is.

3. Maybe I missed it but what is Phillips upset about? No one has a divine right to play a certain amount of games.

4.With a nod and a wink some are implying here that Krivsky and Narron have something to do with all of this. Could you enlighten us (or at least dumb old me)?

guttle11
04-28-2008, 09:11 PM
Fay's either "the guy" with the players, or he just bought a new fishing pole. I can't decide. I get that he has to print what's said, but we also don't know the exact manner in which things are being said. I mean, how are we supposed to interpret "Gee, you're hitting well..."? I doubt those were the exact words Fay used.

Frustration can be a good thing, but the line is thin. You want guys who desperately want to be on the field and have some fire in the gut. How he handles these guys will tell the story of Dusty Baker's job performance in the short term.

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2008, 09:16 PM
I'd be disgruntled too if I walked into spring training with two clearly inferior hitters in front of me on the depth chart at my position.

blumj
04-28-2008, 09:32 PM
How he handles these guys will tell the story of Dusty Baker's job performance in the short term.
Isn't that why you hire Dusty Baker, because he's such a great leader and he handles the players so well? I wouldn't think it's a great sign that the players are going to the media with this stuff instead of directly to the manager.

VR
04-28-2008, 09:33 PM
The Reds are 11-15, and 5th in a 6 team division.

Players are angry and frustrated.

I say that's the way it ought to be.

When you're finding ways to lose, it shouldn't be rainbows, gumdrops and lollipops.


B-i-n-g-o

LoganBuck
04-28-2008, 09:49 PM
I think what you are seeing is the beginning of the inevitable clubhouse turmoil coming for Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty. How much longer do you think Adam Dunn is going to tolerate being double switched for in the sixth inning? How about Joey Votto? It isn't going to be made public but I would venture to bet that some of these guys are not pleased with some of Dusty Baker's moves. Marty made an off the cuff comment about Valentin a couple days ago about his playing time being cutoff. I know some of these guys have no one to blame but themselves, but the count is eye catching.

Dunn - Double switches
Votto - Double swithes
Freel - Lack of Playing time
Hatteburg - Lack of Playing time
Valentin - Lack of Playing time
Hopper - Lack of Playing Time

Until the redundancies are reduced the players getting the short end of the playing time stick will be unhappy.

guttle11
04-28-2008, 09:54 PM
I think what you are seeing is the beginning of the inevitable clubhouse turmoil coming for Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty. How much longer do you think Adam Dunn is going to tolerate being double switched for in the sixth inning? How about Joey Votto? It isn't going to be made public but I would venture to bet that some of these guys are not pleased with some of Dusty Baker's moves. Marty made an off the cuff comment about Valentin a couple days ago about his playing time being cutoff. I know some of these guys have no one to blame but themselves, but the count is eye catching.

Dunn - Double switches
Votto - Double swithes
Freel - Lack of Playing time
Hatteburg - Lack of Playing time
Valentin - Lack of Playing time
Hopper - Lack of Playing Time

Until the redundancies are reduced the players getting the short end of the playing time stick will be unhappy.

Everybody is going to get upset at some point. A manager earns his bacon by keeping guys' heads up through the disappointment and keeps the team together and focused. We're not 30 games into the season...let's let Dusty get a better feel for his roster before we start worrying about how everyone will handle his moves. He hasn't been around long enough to know how guys react to things.

Being upset with your playing time is not inherently a bad thing for the team. In fact, I'd say it's a good thing more often than most people are willing to admit. It depends on the player's personality. Either it makes you more focused and ready to play when you get a shot, or you sulk and hope for a pity party to be thrown in your honor. Give Dusty and especially Jocketty a little more time to get to know these guys.

LoganBuck
04-28-2008, 09:57 PM
Being upset with your playing time is not inherently a bad thing for the team. In fact, I'd say it's a good thing more often than people are willing to admit.

I am not arguing that. What I am saying is that the redundant players are going to get a little chippy about their playing time. It is human nature.

RFS62
04-28-2008, 10:05 PM
It's probably just Farney blowing off steam. Freel won't even remember it tomorrow.

OldXOhio
04-28-2008, 10:45 PM
Well, I hate to break it to you, Freel....but you can't. You're lucky Bruce hasn't gotten the call yet.

You wear down, you get hurt, you get sloppy, you make boneheaded mistakes. The hustle is great though!

I would maybe ride him a little bit since he is hitting better than Patterson at the moment, at least until he cools off

Such is life when a member of a platoon.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2008, 11:20 PM
Freel should be playing more than he is, especially while he is playing well. You gotta ride the hot bats. His frustration and his complaints are legit. However, Ryan Freel is not a base stealing threat anymore and should not be given the green light unless instructed by Hatcher.

BCubb2003
04-28-2008, 11:27 PM
It's probably just Farney blowing off steam. Freel won't even remember it tomorrow.

It's hard enough to find playing time for one of them.

Team Clark
04-29-2008, 12:31 AM
Sounds to me like the ship has water in it, the Captain has been replaced and a few guys want off the ship!

WVRedsFan
04-29-2008, 01:33 AM
Sounds to me like the ship has water in it, the Captain has been replaced and a few guys want off the ship!

Make them walk the plank :)

I'm having trouble here. Was Wayne worshiped that much in the clubhouse?

MrCinatit
04-29-2008, 02:41 AM
Well, I hate to break it to you, Freel....but you can't. You're lucky Bruce hasn't gotten the call yet.
You wear down, you get hurt, you get sloppy, you make boneheaded mistakes. The hustle is great though!
I would maybe ride him a little bit since he is hitting better than Patterson at the moment, at least until he cools off

Exactly.
It is no secret that Freel is not a true everyday player - that he wears down pretty quickly and is prone to slumps. That, and he does not seem to be getting a whole lot better with age.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2008, 03:02 AM
I still like Freel over Hopper & Hatteberg at this point. He is a RH bat and he is versatile. I like his bat better than Patterson, but not his glove. I'd say he's a pretty good platoon partner for Patterson and a good match to give others a day off when needed.

I've kind of gone back and forth about Freel and while I do think he is slightly overpaid, the guy does have his uses.

KronoRed
04-29-2008, 03:05 AM
Is it just me or does John Fay seem intent on stirring the pot in the clubhouse?

Maybe, maybe not..but a calm Happy clubhouse doesn't make for fun reporting ;)

mth123
04-29-2008, 05:45 AM
I still like Freel over Hopper & Hatteberg at this point. He is a RH bat and he is versatile. I like his bat better than Patterson, but not his glove. I'd say he's a pretty good platoon partner for Patterson and a good match to give others a day off when needed.

I've kind of gone back and forth about Freel and while I do think he is slightly overpaid, the guy does have his uses.

Me too. I've been a Freel basher in the past and I think he should have been dealt in spring training 2007 while his value was relatively intact and teams were clamoring for lead-off types who play CF. In spot duty, where he isn't over-exposed, Freel is a fine spare part (though now a little pricey). At this point, the Reds aren't going to get anything for him that will play that role better than he does, and the options in house are a downgrade. Freel needs to accept his role and the Reds need to use him accodingly. If that happens. he's this team's best bench player IMO. If a real value could be obtained from some one who wants to make him a regular, then certainly deal him, but letting him go for peanuts to create a roster spot for some one like Hopper is a negative move when it comes to actually winning games in 2008.

As far as his baserunning goes, it was never any good. Now that he has seemingly lost a step, maybe he'll get the stop sign and actually become a better player. I've never been a fan of his running game, but the little dude has a history of getting on base pretty well and his versatility, even if the defense isn't top notch, has its uses.

Spring~Fields
04-29-2008, 10:31 AM
Sounds to me like the ship has water in it, the Captain has been replaced and a few guys want off the ship!

What do you mean ?
Can you elaborate or clarify regarding the Reds positive or negative ?

Team Clark
04-29-2008, 10:48 AM
What do you mean ?
Can you elaborate or clarify regarding the Reds positive or negative ?

I was just making reference to the shake up and the losing. If the Reds were in first place and everyone was having "happy time" Freel, Hatte and anyone else would be just thrilled. "Glad I can help the team in any way....blah blah...I'm just happy to be here... blah, blah" (Like Crash said "Yeah I know...Just write it down)

The GM has been replaced, the team up until a few days ago was playing poorly and there has been some miscommunication with the manager. Players, just like any of us would try to distance ourselves from "turmoil".

TRF
04-29-2008, 10:51 AM
I understand how Freel feels, but he doesn't have much of an argument. Just watch Patterson play centerfield. End of argument.

I've seen Patterson hit. Sorry, but the argument stands. especially since Freel is a true leadoff hitter and Patterson at leadoff is an oxymoron.

IslandRed
04-29-2008, 10:55 AM
I'm having trouble here. Was Wayne worshiped that much in the clubhouse?

It could be there are guys in the clubhouse not happy with Krivsky's firing. It could also be that guys who aren't happy with playing time, which flows from roster construction, feeling free to say something now that the guy who put together the roster is gone. Wouldn't be surprised if there's some of each at play in the clubhouse right now.

Spring~Fields
04-29-2008, 11:01 AM
I was just making reference to the shake up and the losing. If the Reds were in first place and everyone was having "happy time" Freel, Hatte and anyone else would be just thrilled. "Glad I can help the team in any way....blah blah...I'm just happy to be here... blah, blah" (Like Crash said "Yeah I know...Just write it down)

The GM has been replaced, the team up until a few days ago was playing poorly and there has been some miscommunication with the manager. Players, just like any of us would try to distance ourselves from "turmoil".

Thanks TC,

I see

AmarilloRed
04-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Freel is doing better at leadoff than Hopper or Patterson, but that isn't saying much since he has a .327 OBP. During his peak years(2004-2006), he would take plenty of walks and OBP around .370. From what I have seen of Ryan Freel this year, he just is not showing much patience at the plate. He is hitting better than a lot of the reserves, so I would try and get him more playing time.

nate
04-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Freel is doing better at leadoff than Hopper or Patterson, but that isn't saying much since he has a .327 OBP. During his peak years(2004-2006), he would take plenty of walks and OBP around .370. From what I have seen of Ryan Freel this year, he just is not showing much patience at the plate. He is hitting better than a lot of the reserves, so I would try and get him more playing time.

Yeah, I'd be happy with Freel's bat and Patterson's glove.

They just can't get that cloning thing here fast enough!

Chip R
04-29-2008, 01:51 PM
From what I have seen of Ryan Freel this year, he just is not showing much patience at the plate. He is hitting better than a lot of the reserves, so I would try and get him more playing time.


That's probably because he knows he's going to have to hit his way off the bench rather than walk. Especially with Dusty as manager.

TRF
04-29-2008, 01:56 PM
Freel is doing better at leadoff than Hopper or Patterson, but that isn't saying much since he has a .327 OBP. During his peak years(2004-2006), he would take plenty of walks and OBP around .370. From what I have seen of Ryan Freel this year, he just is not showing much patience at the plate. He is hitting better than a lot of the reserves, so I would try and get him more playing time.

Hard to get on base without the PT. look at his stats over the last 7-10 days. He's getting on base just fine.

redsmetz
04-29-2008, 02:03 PM
It looks like Rick Sweet's having to juggle playing time too. From today's Courier Journal:


Sweet's job is tougher than you might think this season. Sure, the Bats are stacked with enough talent to lead the International League's West Division, but that also means he has to find enough playing time to keep his guys happy. No player has started every game.

"I keep a chart on who plays on what day," Sweet said. "I can go back and see almost who's next in line to get a day off, although left/right (pitchers) will determine that a little bit."

Middle infielders have been the most consistent positions. Shortstop Paul Janish had made 18 starts through Friday night's game, with Hairston the only other player who had started at that spot. Andy Green had made 20 starts at second base.

AmarilloRed
04-29-2008, 02:29 PM
Hard to get on base without the PT. look at his stats over the last 7-10 days. He's getting on base just fine.

7 for 20 over the last 10 days. He's hitting just fine, but he only has 1 walk in that span, and 3 for the season. For Freel to get more playing time, he will need to do better in that department. I realize that Dusty wants his players to be aggressive, however.

Highlifeman21
04-29-2008, 04:23 PM
Phillips, Hatteberg, Freel and Bruce live in a world that they have to be very careful about what they say and disclose. The fact that some of this is leaking out, I should say oozing out is an indicator that something more and deeper is wrong and going on. More will come and be exposed over time.

I see that point of view, but I'm also wondering if players are now talking that Wayne's no longer in charge.

During Wayne's tenure, he was tight-lipped, and excluding Junior so were the players.

Now that Walt's in charge, we're hearing more players "chirping" Either they're treading on thin ice with Walt at the helm, or they feel they have more media freedom?