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View Full Version : Base-running mistake by BP?



AccordinglyReds
04-28-2008, 11:37 PM
After reading some of the posts in the ORG on this play, I thought I'd start a thread here.

Dunn smoked the ball so hard that I don't think it was possible for BP to stop or leap it, and I don't care if he is a MLB player.

Chalk it up to something that doesn't happen often and get on with the game. :rolleyes:

TheOnlyRedsFan
04-28-2008, 11:42 PM
I dont even think BP saw it coming. I think if he would have known the path of the ball was coming straight at him, we would have seen him jump or something.

goreds2
04-28-2008, 11:43 PM
After reading some of the posts in the ORG on this play, I thought I'd start a thread here.

Dunn smoked the ball so hard that I don't think it was possible for BP to stop or leap it, and I don't care if he is a MLB player.

Chalk it up to something that doesn't happen often and get on with the game. :rolleyes:

AGREED.

TheOnlyRedsFan
04-28-2008, 11:44 PM
Although "keep your eye on the ball" is preached all the time.

Mutaman
04-28-2008, 11:45 PM
After reading some of the posts in the ORG on this play, I thought I'd start a thread here.

Dunn smoked the ball so hard that I don't think it was possible for BP to stop or leap it, and I don't care if he is a MLB player.

Chalk it up to something that doesn't happen often and get on with the game. :rolleyes:

I agree. I think he was shocked Dunn hit the ball hard with men on base:)

fugowitribe
04-28-2008, 11:45 PM
I don't know, it was hit hard, but he has to pick the ball up a little better. I mean if he knew enough to know that the ball was on the ground (Obvious because he took off for 2nd) then he needs to see the ball coming right at him and throw the brakes on. It was a split second decision and he made the wrong one. I just hope it doesn't cost the Reds a win.

Newport Red
04-28-2008, 11:57 PM
Was the ball heading for the outfield or to the second baseman for a double play?

HeatherC1212
04-29-2008, 12:15 AM
There is no way Brandon could have gotten out of the way of that ball. They just showed that play again on Reds Live. It was smoked and he wasn't even really running towards second base at that point. I think he was trying to figure out where it was going to roll through and before he could react he got hit. He was hit so hard that he fell over. I really don't think it was his fault. Sometimes those things just happen and unfortunately it happened to Brandon tonight. :eek:

Mutaman
04-29-2008, 12:16 AM
There is a former Heisman winner in the NFL named Charles Woodson. He is incredibly aggressive. Sometimes he gets flagged for a penalty but in the long run his aggresiveness pays off. I feel the same way about Brandon and the way he plays the game.

jhiller21
04-29-2008, 12:16 AM
Was the ball heading for the outfield or to the second baseman for a double play?

Had it not hit Phillips it would have been through the infield for a single.

DTCromer
04-29-2008, 12:16 AM
There is no way Brandon could have gotten out of the way of that ball. They just showed that play again on Reds Live. It was smoked and he wasn't even really running towards second base at that point. I think he was trying to figure out where it was going to roll through and before he could react he got hit. He was hit so hard that he fell over. I really don't think it was his fault. Sometimes those things just happen and unfortunately it happened to Brandon tonight. :eek:

I agree. After seeing the replay, it looked like BP was looking at the ball on Reds Live. After reading several ORG posts about it, some people act as if he missed third base to tie a ballgame or something. :)

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 12:21 AM
Phillips is an amazing athlete and a great defensive player... he eats plays like that up when he has his glove on. That was just poor poor baserunning! The ball was in front of BP and he ran into the ball. It wasn't on purpose and I know he thought he could get by the ball but he obviously didn't. I was suprised to see Brandon make that sort of mistake, normally those are reserved for Freel.

Chris Sabowned
04-29-2008, 12:55 AM
Phillips is an amazing athlete and a great defensive player... he eats plays like that up when he has his glove on. That was just poor poor baserunning! The ball was in front of BP and he ran into the ball. It wasn't on purpose and I know he thought he could get by the ball but he obviously didn't. I was suprised to see Brandon make that sort of mistake, normally those are reserved for Freel.


But when fielding Phillips is looking at the ball the whole way, when running sometimes when the ball is it you jsut gotta put your head down and run. It was hit so hard he just got unlucky. Not a big deal.

killuminati35
04-29-2008, 01:59 AM
There was no reason for BP to get hit with that ball. From the replay it looked like he thought he was going to run right by it and was wrong. In that situation, you can't take that gamble. He knew where the ball was.

He's swinging the bat well and the Reds won the game, so hopefully he learns and moves on.

Slyder
04-29-2008, 03:51 AM
No win situation for Phillips. That ball was smoked and he didnt have a lot of time to react. What if he saw it and he hesistated to let it go by just to have the 2nd baseman start a 4-6-3 DP to end the inning. It wasnt bad baserunning just incredibly bad luck that got Brandon on that one.

Degenerate39
04-29-2008, 07:10 AM
No win situation for Phillips. That ball was smoked and he didnt have a lot of time to react. What if he saw it and he hesistated to let it go by just to have the 2nd baseman start a 4-6-3 DP to end the inning. It wasnt bad baserunning just incredibly bad luck that got Brandon on that one.

That was not a DP ball that was going through for a single that would've scored two runs.

I swear this vendetta everyone has against Dunn is getting old and worn out.

fadetoblack2880
04-29-2008, 08:02 AM
That was not a DP ball that was going through for a single that would've scored two runs.

I swear this vendetta everyone has against Dunn is getting old and worn out.

Yeah, leave the guy alone. The Reds won the game, that's what's most important.

smoke6
04-29-2008, 08:43 AM
Yeah, leave the guy alone. The Reds won the game, that's what's most important.

Agreed.:beerme:

BurgervilleBuck
04-29-2008, 09:42 AM
That was not a DP ball that was going through for a single that would've scored two runs.

I swear this vendetta everyone has against Dunn is getting old and worn out.
You're right, it wasn't a DP ball.

I'm not a Dunn lover but after that play, I was starting to wonder if the fella isn't snakebit or something.

Slyder
04-29-2008, 09:55 AM
No win situation for Phillips. That ball was smoked and he didnt have a lot of time to react. What if he saw it and he hesistated to let it go by just to have the 2nd baseman start a 4-6-3 DP to end the inning. It wasnt bad baserunning just incredibly bad luck that got Brandon on that one.


That was not a DP ball that was going through for a single that would've scored two runs.

I swear this vendetta everyone has against Dunn is getting old and worn out.

Ya I saw the replay it wasnt a DP ball, thought the 2b was closer to the ball than he was with the shift, and a bad analogy. With the way the ball was hit I'm sure theres more than 1 guy that gotten beaned by it.

RedsBuck36
04-29-2008, 10:16 AM
You're right, it wasn't a DP ball.

I'm not a Dunn lover but after that play, I was starting to wonder if the fella isn't snakebit or something.

Snakebit you say? Thats Reds Karma my friend. They are the "Murphy's Law" of MLB. If it can happen it will happen at the most inopportune time to cause the most damage possible. Gets kinda silly at times and extremely frustrating.

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 10:20 AM
You people don't understand that as a baserunner you are supposed to find the ball, you are never supposed to put your head down and run. It didn't end up costing the Reds, but like it or not that was a terrible play by Phillips. He ran into the ball, the ball wasn't hit into him.

I wonder what you guys had to say last season when Dunn missed 3rd base in Pittsburgh trying to score on a single to LF? I bet he was raked over the coles!

44Magnum
04-29-2008, 10:35 AM
Can't knock Phillips on that one. He was hustling.

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 10:49 AM
Can't knock Phillips on that one. He was hustling.


:confused::confused::confused::confused:

jimbo
04-29-2008, 12:41 PM
You people don't understand that as a baserunner you are supposed to find the ball, you are never supposed to put your head down and run. It didn't end up costing the Reds, but like it or not that was a terrible play by Phillips. He ran into the ball, the ball wasn't hit into him.


It was a mistake, but I'm not willing to agree in calling it a "terrible" mistake. I agree a runner needs to find the ball, but that ball was hit pretty hard and it was already hit pretty close to BP. He had to make an instant decision and your first instinct as a runner on first base when a grounder is hit is to run. Maybe BP decided in that instant that his momentum was going to take him into the ball even if he tried to stop, so he decided his best option was to try and jump over it.

I'm just giving an explanation, none of us knows for sure what was going through his mind. I just think it's very unfair to criticize him for something that happened so fast just by how we judge what we saw on tv.

Degenerate39
04-29-2008, 01:08 PM
Everyone forgot that Dunn had an RBI earlier on and that was a big difference maker.

KySteveH
04-29-2008, 01:36 PM
You people don't understand that as a baserunner you are supposed to find the ball, you are never supposed to put your head down and run. It didn't end up costing the Reds, but like it or not that was a terrible play by Phillips. He ran into the ball, the ball wasn't hit into him.

I wonder what you guys had to say last season when Dunn missed 3rd base in Pittsburgh trying to score on a single to LF? I bet he was raked over the coles!

I understand that, many people on this board understand that, and you are wrong that we don't understand. I don't appreciate being called out individually or collectively. In fact, I can't think of a sitaution in which starting a post with 'you people' is appropriate. I'll keep trying though.

bgwilly31
04-29-2008, 02:09 PM
BP should have avoided the ball. He didnt. It was a mistake. It was stupid. BP im sure felt terrible.

This is just like missing a 1st base while your running. Its a dumb mistake. But we all do dumb things sometimes. The guys human.

However IT WAS A MISTAKE> That ball was absolutely NOT unavoidable like some of you are saying.

jimbo
04-29-2008, 02:16 PM
However IT WAS A MISTAKE> That ball was absolutely NOT unavoidable like some of you are saying.

It's also not as absolute and simple as some are implying.

HeatherC1212
04-29-2008, 02:19 PM
It was a mistake, but I'm not willing to agree in calling it a "terrible" mistake. I agree a runner needs to find the ball, but that ball was hit pretty hard and it was already hit pretty close to BP. He had to make an instant decision and your first instinct as a runner on first base when a grounder is hit is to run. Maybe BP decided in that instant that his momentum was going to take him into the ball even if he tried to stop, so he decided his best option was to try and jump over it.

I'm just giving an explanation, none of us knows for sure what was going through his mind. I just think it's very unfair to criticize him for something that happened so fast just by how we judge what we saw on tv.

I don't think Brandon even had time to attempt a jump over the ball. I watched that play every time they showed it last night and when it was finally shown in slow-mo, that ball was smoked right towards him and as he was trying to react, it hit him hard in the leg (and probably left a mark too). ITA that it's unfair to criticize BP for a play that happened so fast. I don't remember him looking down either. He was watching the ball and the next thing he knew, he was hit by that ball so I'm sure he was sitting out there wondering how in the heck that happened too. I want to know exactly how BP was supposed to have avoided the ball when it sure seemed like it was hit pretty hard in his general direction last night. :eek:


I understand that, many people on this board understand that, and you are wrong that we don't understand. I don't appreciate being called out individually or collectively. In fact, I can't think of a sitaution in which starting a post with 'you people' is appropriate. I'll keep trying though.

I also agree with this statement. I thought that particular part was inappropriate too. :thumbdown

smoke6
04-29-2008, 02:22 PM
Refresh my memory. Was BP on the move or did he go on contact?

If I remember correctly, the bases were juiced. If the bases were loaded, he went on contact. He should have seen the ball the whole way. Yes, AD smoked it, but that's no excuse. I'm guessing he was trying to stay as close to the ball as possible to distract the second basemen (in case he got to it).


BUT, who really cares? We won.That's all that matters.


6

bubbachunk
04-29-2008, 02:27 PM
Not his fault he didn't see it

Red in Atl
04-29-2008, 02:58 PM
Im glad you guys clarified that for me. I was cursing him up and down last night, but I was distracted by a conference call I was on for work. I didn't see it in slow mo.

And it was especially hard to believe after his sweet play in San Fran when he stretched the single into a double by standing up and hoping over the tag.

Newman4
04-29-2008, 03:28 PM
Put me down in the "he couldn't have helped it" camp. I think it's one of those things like when a line drive comes back and hits the pitcher. You try to react, but it's sometimes just impossible. Do you think he would've gotten hit with an Adam Dunn line drive if he could've avoided it?

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 04:38 PM
I realize that BP made a mistake, and of course he didn't try to get hit but his error was a mental error. He was not going on contact, player's are taught to freeze on a line drive. Yes, Dunn's ball was a low liner that hit the ground before it hit Phillips but the principal remains the same... it was a bad play by BP, especially since the ball was hit in front of him and not hit at him. It's amazing how if Phillips screws up, it's just bad luck or it's because he was hustling. If Dunn screws up it's because he sucks and is terrible.

And "you people" can cry me a freaking river. :D

bgwilly31
04-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Look at it this way. BP is a gold glove second basemen. He fields smashed ground balls like AD's with ease. You think he could "Olay" one of those ground balls out in the field if he wanted to?


It was mistake guys. Let it be. The ball was avoidable for a professional athlete. Maybe not an out of shape 40+ yr old office guys. But prime of there life athletes can do amazing things wouldnt you know.

smoke6
04-29-2008, 08:18 PM
I realize that BP made a mistake, and of course he didn't try to get hit but his error was a mental error. He was not going on contact, player's are taught to freeze on a line drive. Yes, Dunn's ball was a low liner that hit the ground before it hit Phillips but the principal remains the same... it was a bad play by BP, especially since the ball was hit in front of him and not hit at him. It's amazing how if Phillips screws up, it's just bad luck or it's because he was hustling. If Dunn screws up it's because he sucks and is terrible.

And "you people" can cry me a freaking river. :D

The bases were loaded and the ball was hit on the ground. Therefore, he was going on contact. And yes, it was a bad play on BP's part.

jnwohio
04-29-2008, 08:53 PM
Put me down in the "he couldn't have helped it" camp. I think it's one of those things like when a line drive comes back and hits the pitcher. You try to react, but it's sometimes just impossible. Do you think he would've gotten hit with an Adam Dunn line drive if he could've avoided it?

3rd base is called the hot corner because sometimes the ball is pulled so hard and so quickly off of the bat of a right handed hitter that the fielder literally doesn't have time to pick it up with his eyes much less react to it. Part of the problem for the fielder is also that the body of the righthanded batter can screen his vison of the ball right around the moment of contact. With Dunn batting from the left side the same applies to 1st base.

Now consider the case of a runner on first when such a ball is hit that way. Not only does he has the batter to potentially screen his field of vision he has also the 1st baseman to see around. He has a split second to pick up the ball and consider if it is a liner that could be caught on the fly or a grounder that requires him to get to 2nd as quickly as possible. And even if he does see the ball and make the right decision as to liner versus grounder, when it hits the ground there is the matter that the speed and direction of the ball will be altered by the impact with the ground. And all this happens, from the time the ball is struck until it is to the 1st to 2nd baseline, in not much more time than the typical reaction time of we mere mortals who are not professional athletes.

Probably a main reason we don't see more of these happenings like with BP Monday nite is that (except on the Reds) there aren't nearly so many left handed hitters as right handed hitters.

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 09:45 PM
I played third base at the college level and I have never been screened by the batter. For a batter to hit the ball to third he has to hit the ball out in front. As an infielder you read the barrel of the bat and you can see the ball make contact, thus you are never blocked from seeing the ball.

smoke6
04-29-2008, 10:45 PM
I played third base at the college level and I have never been screened by the batter. For a batter to hit the ball to third he has to hit the ball out in front. As an infielder you read the barrel of the bat and you can see the ball make contact, thus you are never blocked from seeing the ball.

I've run bases at the college level and of course you've never been screened by a runner. You play 3rd base. :D I imagine you've run bases at the college level also. You mean to tell me you've never hesitated just a bit on the base path to obstruct the veiw of a 2nd baseman or SS?

Nasty_Boy
04-29-2008, 11:35 PM
As a baserunner yes I have, but that wasn't what was being talked about. The comment was I have never been screened by the batter. You always have a clear view of the ball coming off the bat, but after the ball is hit a baserunner could obstruct a fielder's view.

As far a running the bases, I trotted them more often than not! :)

smoke6
04-30-2008, 09:14 AM
As a baserunner yes I have, but that wasn't what was being talked about. The comment was I have never been screened by the batter. You always have a clear view of the ball coming off the bat, but after the ball is hit a baserunner could obstruct a fielder's view.

As far a running the bases, I trotted them more often than not! :)

I saw that the poster before you said batter, but I ASSumed they meant runner. I never got to trot around the bases in college. I was a pitcher who could run, so I was always a pinch runner.:thumbdown

Rob387
04-30-2008, 11:39 AM
If the ball hadn't hit him it would have been a double play with Dunn running anyways. What was the deal with Keppinger last night not staying on third?

Nasty_Boy
04-30-2008, 12:00 PM
The ball Dunn hit was a sure single. Even if Kennedy would have somehow got to that ball Pujols was running towards 2nd base, so Kennedy could have either thrown to the pitcher for an out or thrown to Izturiz for an out. There is no way that would have be a double play.

bgwilly31
04-30-2008, 12:21 PM
3rd base is called the hot corner because sometimes the ball is pulled so hard and so quickly off of the bat of a right handed hitter that the fielder literally doesn't have time to pick it up with his eyes much less react to it. Part of the problem for the fielder is also that the body of the righthanded batter can screen his vison of the ball right around the moment of contact. With Dunn batting from the left side the same applies to 1st base.

Now consider the case of a runner on first when such a ball is hit that way. Not only does he has the batter to potentially screen his field of vision he has also the 1st baseman to see around. He has a split second to pick up the ball and consider if it is a liner that could be caught on the fly or a grounder that requires him to get to 2nd as quickly as possible. And even if he does see the ball and make the right decision as to liner versus grounder, when it hits the ground there is the matter that the speed and direction of the ball will be altered by the impact with the ground. And all this happens, from the time the ball is struck until it is to the 1st to 2nd baseline, in not much more time than the typical reaction time of we mere mortals who are not professional athletes.

Probably a main reason we don't see more of these happenings like with BP Monday nite is that (except on the Reds) there aren't nearly so many left handed hitters as right handed hitters.

ummm.... Yeah BP didnt have the 1st basemen to see around. The 1st basemen was playing behind him. :rolleyes:
Also that was WAYYY i mean WAYYYYYYYYYYY over analyzed. And the stupid thing about it is most of it was incorrect.


The ball Dunn hit was a sure single. Even if Kennedy would have somehow got to that ball Pujols was running towards 2nd base, so Kennedy could have either thrown to the pitcher for an out or thrown to Izturiz for an out. There is no way that would have be a double play.

Dunn hit, if it didnt hit BP, was a for sure Single. No doubt about it.