PDA

View Full Version : Why does Jr. still bat 3rd?



44Magnum
04-29-2008, 09:52 AM
I've been wondering about this. Now I find an article in the Hardball Times about the worst 3-hole hitters of all-time. The worst just so happens to be a Red. How ironic!
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-10-worst-no-3-hitters-since-1957/

smoke6
04-29-2008, 10:47 AM
Because he gets cranky if he doesn't.

DannyB
04-29-2008, 11:15 AM
Same reason The Centerfielder bats lead off-because Dusty puts hin there.

BLEEDS
04-29-2008, 11:20 AM
NO CLUE. I love me some Junior, but batting him 3rd is about the WORST thing we can do in this lineup - especially with BP batting behind him. In the RARE times that Junior gets on other than a HR, he's at 1st. Primed and ready for a DP ground ball by BP.

Dunn should be 3rd, Junior 4th, and BP 5th or 6th - or for that matter 1st. You can't kill a rally batting behind the pitcher.

Outside of Keppinger batting 2nd, the top 5 people in just about EVERY lineup Dusty throws out there is unexplainable. You've got EE and Votto spraying the ball all over the place and you're taking AB's from them to give to CP, Junior and Dunn.

I've said numerous times, and will continue to say, you could take Dusty's 1-7 and line them up 7 to 1, and it'd be more ideal.

Dusty:

CP
Keppinger
Junior
BP
Dunn
EE
Votto



Reverse Dusty:

Votto
EE
Dunn
BP
Junior
Keppinger
CP

Someone run some Statistical runs scored thingies with this!!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Orodle
04-29-2008, 11:48 AM
because the reds are afraid to push his buttons

thorn
04-29-2008, 01:27 PM
Unlike the No. 2 slot in the lineup, the third-place hitter's job has never been complicated with any expectation of moving runners over or contributing productive outs. Today and throughout history, the No. 3 hitter is expected to drive in runs and get on base himself. This is where you put your best overall hitter, or at least your second-best.

The only minor complicating factor for deciding who to bat third is the issue of leveraging the value of bases on balls. Unless the first and second hitters in the lineup have extraordinarily high on-base percentages, often in the first inning the No. 3 hitter will be coming up with two outs and the bases empty, the situation in which a walk offers its least value. Therefore, a power hitter who draws a lot of walks (say, 100 or more per season) isn't ideally suited to bat third; better to bat him fourth, because the fourth-place hitter leads off more innings, where the base on balls is maximally useful.


But that's a fine point. The overriding issue is quite simple: The third-place hitter should be a very strong all-around offensive performer, delivering both power and average.

I happen to agree with this, Dunn is nowhere near our best hitter. So I'll have to disagree with Dunn batting 3rd.
Not sure why you are adding Griffey to this discussion and he's not mentioned anywhere in the article.

44Magnum
04-30-2008, 09:56 AM
The Reds are not serious about winning if they continue to bat Jr. 3rd.

Moonlite Graham
04-30-2008, 10:06 AM
Posed this question to a friend a couple days ago....

Is their any other team in the majors (save maybe SF) that Jr. would bat 3rd for??

We couldnt come up with any.

RSNtransplant
04-30-2008, 07:44 PM
Posed this question to a friend a couple days ago....

Is their any other team in the majors (save maybe SF) that Jr. would bat 3rd for??

We couldnt come up with any.

Considering other points mentioned above(ie best(or 2nd best) hitter 3rd, guy who walk 100plus better in 4th spot), I think the question should be how many teams' lineups more would Dunn or EE bat 3rd in than Griffey would. Obviously they all bat 3rd in SF. I think none of these Reds hitters would bat 3rd for Bos(ortiz), NYY(Arod), TOR(Rios,Wells), TB(Upton), Bal(Markakis), CHW(Thome?), Clev(Martinez), Det(Sheffield), Min(Mauer), LAA(Vlad), Tex(Hamilton?) NYM(Wright), Phil(Howard), ATL(Texiera/Jones), Stl(Pujols), Milw(Fielder), Hou(Berkman), Cubs(Lee), Pitt(Bay?), SD(Gonzalez), COl(Holliday). So even if Griffey would not bat 3rd in any of those line-ups, neither would the other Reds options, Dunn or EE. I am excluding the rest of the Reds hitters besides these three b/c I believe none of them would be both better hitters or Run producers than these three.

Based on the 100+ walk guy batting 4th argument, I would be batting Dunn 4th, where previously I was of the opinion he should be 5th, b/c that is where he would bat in most other teams line-ups.

mlbfan30
04-30-2008, 07:59 PM
And because Phillips bats so many times with the bases empty, it means Dunn bats with the bases empty since Phillips has a horrible OBP and will ground into so many double plays.

And that's why Dunn gets pitched around, there are very few times when a mistake (HR) will hurt because it's only a solo shot.

And this is what I've been trying to say since the start of the season

gedred69
04-30-2008, 10:58 PM
Positioning the line-up for the supposed benefits of Griffey and Dunn, has doomed this team to another awful season, all while Bruce stagnates at AAA. What a waste...

keeganbrick
05-01-2008, 03:49 AM
HOF, thats y.

44Magnum
05-01-2008, 10:08 AM
HOF, thats y.

What have you done for me lately?

Rounding Third
05-01-2008, 11:15 AM
What have you done for me lately?

Being a HoF is the reason why he is batting third.

Not a good reason, but it is the reason.

Jack Burton
05-01-2008, 03:38 PM
Bat him 8th and see how he responds.

Rounding Third
05-01-2008, 03:48 PM
Bat him 8th and see how he responds.

You probably wouldn't see him on the field.

44Magnum
05-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Being a HoF is the reason why he is batting third.

Not a good reason, but it is the reason.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you saying that Reggie Jackson should hit 3rd for the Reds if they can sign him? HOF'er or not, Jr. does not produce like he used to. A spot in the order is earned by your current talent/abilities, not past ones.

James B.
05-01-2008, 04:31 PM
Griffey got off to a slow start last year and had a great May. I will wait and see how he does this month before I get too excited.

Rounding Third
05-01-2008, 04:33 PM
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you saying that Reggie Jackson should hit 3rd for the Reds if they can sign him? HOF'er or not, Jr. does not produce like he used to. A spot in the order is earned by your current talent/abilities, not past ones.


Why is Griffey batting third? Because he is a Hall of Famer

Should Griffey be batting third even though he is a hall of famer? NO

Hence I said it is the reason, just not a good one.