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reds44
05-02-2008, 02:25 PM
From Fay


Mario Soto is here in Atlanta to work with Johnny Cueto. At least, I saw him in the hotel lobby. If he's not here to work with Cueto, that would be a bizarre coincidence, eh? Good move by the Reds.

I hear a lot of talk that the Reds need to youth movement.

Other than inserting Jay Bruce in center field, there's not a lot they can do. Is Bruce ready? Maybe. But 25 strikeouts in 101 at-bats and .324 on-base percentage tell me another month in Triple-A won't hurt.

I'd have Homer Bailey up here -- maybe in relief -- some time soon. But other than those two I don't see anyone who can make any kind of impact.

Other than Junior Griffey the Reds don't play anyone very old. Average age of the infield is 26.

Jay Bruce has a .324 OBP? Maybe the time isn't now. Good news with Soto though.

cumberlandreds
05-02-2008, 02:43 PM
I wonder how much it would take to hire Soto as pitching coach? He seems to be a natural at it.
Like Fay said it probably won't hurt Bruce to play another month or so in AAA. Doesn't look like this season in going anywhere so you might as well.

Chip R
05-02-2008, 02:51 PM
I wonder how much it would take to hire Soto as pitching coach? He seems to be a natural at it.

There are some things money can't buy.

If the Reds really want Soto's input, instead of bringing him to the players, why not use advanced technology to bring the players to him? Have live, streaming video of Cueto's et. al. bullpen sessions. If he doesn't have one, buy him a satellite dish so those games can be beamed down to Casa de Soto.

Spring~Fields
05-02-2008, 02:53 PM
There are some things money can't buy.

If the Reds really want Soto's input, instead of bringing him to the players, why not use advanced technology to bring the players to him? Have live, streaming video of Cueto's et. al. bullpen sessions. If he doesn't have one, buy him a satellite dish so those games can be beamed down to Casa de Soto.

Excellent suggestion and they have the big bucks to make it happen.

Good idea

BCubb2003
05-02-2008, 02:56 PM
Soto's role with the Reds is becoming like that former player's minor-league contract of which we aren't to speak.

bucksfan2
05-02-2008, 03:03 PM
There are some things money can't buy.

If the Reds really want Soto's input, instead of bringing him to the players, why not use advanced technology to bring the players to him? Have live, streaming video of Cueto's et. al. bullpen sessions. If he doesn't have one, buy him a satellite dish so those games can be beamed down to Casa de Soto.

I don't think that would work. The technology is there for something similar to work but I don't think a pitching coach would be all that effective without using a hands on approach. IMO Soto's value is very much in demand by the reds right now because of the Latin influence that the rotation has. I would also assume that Cordero would have a calming influence on both Cueto and Volquez both on and off the field.

Soto doesn't need baseball. I am assuming but I would assume that he is pretty much set for the rest of his life financially. I would also assume that what the Reds pay him to do whatever he does is enough to sustain his lifestyle. If you living high on the hog why would you want to put yourself through the rigors of a major leagues season?

RFS62
05-02-2008, 03:06 PM
I wonder how the logistics of this worked. Did Cueto ask for him? Did Dusty or Jockallini recommend it? How does Dick Pole feel about it?

OnBaseMachine
05-02-2008, 03:13 PM
Paging Mario Soto, Mr. Mario Soto, please. That call has gone out from Cincinnati Reds general manager Walt Jocketty to roving pitching instructor Mario Soto, at the prodding of manager Dusty Baker.

Johnny Cueto needs help, and his mentor, Soto, is the man to provide.

"I said during spring training that I would like Soto to pop in about once a month to be there for Cueto and Edinson Volquez," Baker said. "We need Mario on the job big-time. Mario practically raised Cueto as a pitcher, taught him the change-up."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/04/30/ddn050108spredsnotesweb.html

Chip R
05-02-2008, 03:14 PM
I don't think that would work. The technology is there for something similar to work but I don't think a pitching coach would be all that effective without using a hands on approach.


Soto has to lay hands on them in order for him to teach them? :confused:

BCubb2003
05-02-2008, 03:14 PM
I wonder how the logistics of this worked. Did Cueto ask for him? Did Dusty or Jockallini recommend it? How does Dick Pole feel about it?

Yes, I hope it's something healthy like Dick Pole saying, "Remember when Mario was telling you about this little thing? Let's get him back up here and take some time with it."

princeton
05-02-2008, 03:14 PM
How does Dick Pole feel?

impotent?

Spring~Fields
05-02-2008, 03:15 PM
There are some things money can't buy.

If the Reds really want Soto's input, instead of bringing him to the players, why not use advanced technology to bring the players to him? Have live, streaming video of Cueto's et. al. bullpen sessions. If he doesn't have one, buy him a satellite dish so those games can be beamed down to Casa de Soto.

I just thought of something else. What does it say when they have to bring in a specialist from out of country to work with a young pitcher about the current pitching coach and bullpen coach? It would seem that Soto will have to coach the coach, would he not?

reds44
05-02-2008, 03:16 PM
I wonder how the logistics of this worked. Did Cueto ask for him? Did Dusty or Jockallini recommend it? How does Dick Pole feel about it?
Like Krivsky felt about Walt?

bucksfan2
05-02-2008, 03:27 PM
Soto has to lay hands on them in order for him to teach them? :confused:

Pitching problems can arise from the most minute details. Your arm slot can be just off and if your are trying to go through your motion a pitching coach can/will set your arm in the proper position. I think this similar to a golf lesson. It is very difficult to do anything when you are dealing with very small discrepancies over a telecast connection.

BCubb2003
05-02-2008, 03:42 PM
Maybe Soto is to the Reds what Koufax is to the Dodgers.

mbgrayson
05-02-2008, 03:44 PM
From Fangraphs on Cueto (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cant-stop-the-bleeding)

Can’t Stop The Bleeding, by Dave Cameron - May 2, 2008 · Filed under Daily Graphings

The Reds have seen some flashes of brilliance from 22-year-old Johnny Cueto since handing him a rotation spot coming out of spring training. His debut was nothing short of sensational, giving up just a solo home run over seven innings of brilliance, striking out 10 guys on the way. However, after a couple of starts that weren’t as effective, Cueto is now sporting a 5.40 ERA.

However, his peripherals don’t look like that of a young kid adjusting to life in the majors - 6 walks and 33 strikeouts in 35 innings shows that he’s commanding the strike zone, and even with his home run issues, his FIP stands at just 4.14. So why doesn’t Cueto’s run prevention match his peripherals?

Take a look at his splits.

No One On Base: 98 PA, .170/.204/.351, 4 HR, 4 BB, 28 K
Runners On Base: 45 PA, .421/.442/.711, 2 HR, 2 BB, 5 K

That’s a remarkable difference, even in a sample of 143 plate appearances. When he’s pitching from the wind-up, he’s blowing hitters away - 28.5% of the batters he has faced have struck out when no one is on base. Once he starts pitching from the stretch, however, that rate drops to just 9%. The walk and home run rates are similar in both scenarios, so it seems unlikely that his stuff takes a nosedive when pitching out of the stretch (this sounds like a great case for a Pitch f/x analysis), but someone in Cincinnati might want to work with Cueto on his approach to pitching once a guy gets on base.

Falls City Beer
05-02-2008, 03:44 PM
Who cares how Dick Pole feels? It's not like the pitching's been any good in his tenure.

Falls City Beer
05-02-2008, 03:45 PM
From Fangraphs on Cueto (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cant-stop-the-bleeding)

Why isn't this stuff detected in the minors? Honestly.

princeton
05-02-2008, 03:48 PM
someone in Cincinnati might want to work with Cueto on his approach to pitching once a guy gets on base.


Mario (in Spanish): "If they reach base, I no longer want you to just let them score"

RedsManRick
05-02-2008, 03:50 PM
Forget about the runner; take the Maddux approach. Keep him in the windup even with men on base. In the big picture, it's better that he pitch well to get the guy at the dish. A few SB here and there are a lot less painful than turning every hitter in to Albert Pujols.

princeton
05-02-2008, 03:51 PM
Why isn't this stuff detected in the minors? Honestly.

because the little tyke showed the opposite trend in the minors

bucksfan2
05-02-2008, 03:52 PM
Forget about the runner; take the Maddux approach. Keep him in the windup even with men on base. In the big picture, it's better that he pitch well to get the guy at the dish. A few SB here and there are a lot less painful than turning every hitter in to Albert Pujols.

I know Maddux didn't care a whole lot about baserunners but didn't he develop quite a slide step?

Falls City Beer
05-02-2008, 03:52 PM
because the little tyke showed the opposite trend in the minors

Then it's not a MLB trend, I guess. Or he was rushed through the minors so rapidly that no book could be made on him.

lollipopcurve
05-02-2008, 03:55 PM
Then it's not a MLB trend, I guess. Or he was rushed through the minors so rapidly that no book could be made on him.

So his last start is the sudden revelation of his true nature as a pitcher, while everything preceding it was an illusion?

The kid had a bad outing. It happens.

Falls City Beer
05-02-2008, 03:58 PM
.

So his last start is the sudden revelation of his true nature as a pitcher, while everything preceding it was an illusion?

The kid had a bad outing. It happens.

You're reading something into what I wrote. I'm saying that maybe it's too early to say "he struggles with men on base" as a matter of fact.

(But this certainly does fall under the heading of obvious kneejerk reactions of people who don't read what others have actually posted).

Unassisted
05-02-2008, 04:14 PM
I hear a lot of talk that the Reds need to youth movement.Wow, youth movement is a verb now. Far out! :pimp:

LoganBuck
05-02-2008, 04:16 PM
Forget about the runner; take the Maddux approach. Keep him in the windup even with men on base. In the big picture, it's better that he pitch well to get the guy at the dish. A few SB here and there are a lot less painful than turning every hitter in to Albert Pujols.

Argh! Remember we are talking about a Dusty Baker managed team.

Stolen Bases===Awesome
Not allowing Stolen Bases===Awesome

I would like to thank mbgrayson for posting that nugget from fangraphs. I have a feeling that that kind of information would be lost on Dusty Baker. He would handle it like a caveman would handle an ipod.

reds44
05-02-2008, 04:16 PM
Welcome to the bigs, kid. You are struggling when you let men get on base. Now adjust to it.

wheels
05-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Welcome to the bigs, kid. You are struggling when you let men get on base. Now adjust to it.


I think it's funny when you call someone a kid. :p:

RichRed
05-02-2008, 04:28 PM
I think it's funny when you call someone a kid. :p:

Well, reds44 is a grizzled 4-plus year veteran of RedsZone. Next thing you know, he'll be telling Cueto to get off his lawn. :)

wheels
05-02-2008, 04:31 PM
Well, reds44 is a grizzled 4-plus year veteran of RedsZone. Next thing you know, he'll be telling Cueto to get off his lawn. :)

I think he was channeling RFS62.

It's an easy thing to do.

BCubb2003
05-02-2008, 04:34 PM
I think he was channeling RFS62.

It's an easy thing to do.

I try, but it's usually blacked out in my area.

reds44
05-02-2008, 04:39 PM
Well, reds44 is a grizzled 4-plus year veteran of RedsZone. Next thing you know, he'll be telling Cueto to get off his lawn. :)
I've been posting here since I was like 13 or 14, just call me Joe Nuxhall. :D

TRF
05-02-2008, 04:51 PM
I've been posting here since I was like 13 or 14, just call me Joe Nuxhall. :D

I've got chunks of corn in my stool older than you. :p:

Chip R
05-02-2008, 04:55 PM
I've got chunks of corn in my stool older than you. :p:


Might I suggest a diet higher in fiber? ;)

MikeS21
05-02-2008, 05:08 PM
Soto has to lay hands on them in order for him to teach them? :confused:
Actually, my parents used to "lay hands" on me once in a while, too. :p:

Spring~Fields
05-02-2008, 07:47 PM
--Mario Soto had his first session with Johnny Cueto. "We want to get him back to the way he was throwing," Soto said. "I saw him on TV he's throwing completely differently than he did in the minors and his first couple of outings." Soto said he tweaked the grip on the Soto's change-up.

Gosh I hope that Dusty doesn't tinker with pitchers

:lol:

I would think that Dick Pole would have caught that.

Patrick Bateman
05-02-2008, 07:56 PM
I've been posting here since I was like 13 or 14, just call me Joe Nuxhall. :D

I've been posting here since I was 12 (under a different username previously)... I'm the real Nux!

reds44
05-02-2008, 08:07 PM
I've been posting here since I was 12 (under a different username previously)... I'm the real Nux!
But are you left handed?

(I'm not)

OnBaseMachine
05-02-2008, 08:13 PM
They said on Reds Live that Soto is teaching Cueto a cut fastball...

Patrick Bateman
05-02-2008, 08:18 PM
But are you left handed?

(I'm not)

No, my brother is though... and he started reading the board at 14.

BCubb2003
05-02-2008, 08:30 PM
I've been posting here since I was like 13 or 14, just call me Joe Nuxhall. :D

You posted wildly the first time, then didn't post again for several years?

KronoRed
05-02-2008, 11:21 PM
You posted wildly the first time, then didn't post again for several years?

Sounds about right ;)

fearofpopvol1
05-02-2008, 11:23 PM
They said on Reds Live that Soto is teaching Cueto a cut fastball...

I heard that too. That makes me a little nervous for some reason. Mostly because I'm not sure that's going to make anything better. Maybe worse. I guess we'll see.

cincyinco
05-03-2008, 04:16 AM
Shouldn't hurt anything. Cueto has been able to harness a 3rd pitch, the change up, in such a quick amount of time.. the kid is a student of his craft.

Bailey has learned a slider this year that also seems like it has the potential to be another weapon.. another offering or look to give opposing batters. These kids are young, they have the accumen and desire.. and hopefully with Soto in most instances, the teacher. I can only see this as low risk potential high reward. The more feathers in your cap to keep hitters off balance, assuming you have an average or above feel for the pitch.. well, then thats the better.

GAC
05-03-2008, 05:38 AM
Maybe they brought Soto in because the Baker-Cueto situation was becoming a lot like Fred Sanford and neighbor Julio Fuentes? :lol:

Spring~Fields
05-03-2008, 07:50 AM
Maybe they brought Soto in because the Baker-Cueto situation was becoming a lot like Fred Sanford and neighbor Julio Fuentes? :lol:

I can see the conection, fiasco after fiasco.

I thought that Dusty was fluent in spanish?

Do you suppose that the Reds can bring in the ghost of Ty Cobb to help Corey ?

RedlegJake
05-03-2008, 08:04 AM
Do you suppose that the Reds can bring in the ghost of Ty Cobb to help Corey ?

What, and ruin the clubhouse chemistry?

Spring~Fields
05-03-2008, 08:26 AM
What, and ruin the clubhouse chemistry?

:)