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reds44
05-03-2008, 09:30 PM
Doing my best not to attack the player, but is he the dumbest baseball player of all time? That was the 2nd time tonight he dove for a ball that he could have caught standing, and this time it cost him and the Reds.

Joseph
05-03-2008, 09:37 PM
I'm not sure he could have caught that one standing up.

alloverjr
05-03-2008, 09:43 PM
I'm not sure he could have caught that one standing up.

I would say he could have caught that in stride. So standing, no. Upright, yes.

reds44
05-03-2008, 09:44 PM
He could have ran through that ball, IMO.

kaldaniels
05-03-2008, 10:25 PM
Say what you will...but he is responsible for the 1 run the Reds have put on the board the last 2 nights...gotta look at the big picture/true problems.

Marc D
05-03-2008, 10:30 PM
Say what you will...but he is responsible for the 1 run the Reds have put on the board the last 2 nights...gotta look at the big picture/true problems.


Big picture/true problem is our entire OF and bench are producing next to nothing. He's part of both.

kaldaniels
05-03-2008, 10:48 PM
Big picture/true problem is our entire OF and bench are producing next to nothing. He's part of both.

Hey...exactly my point, that defensive play tonight was meaningless when your team only scores 1 run.

WVRedsFan
05-03-2008, 11:22 PM
The new Jim Edmunds?

Marc D
05-03-2008, 11:26 PM
The new Jim Edmunds?


I was thinking that as I watched him needlessly launch himself in the air but then I remembered that at least Edmunds caught the thing when he did that.

Its not just one play, or his latest adventures on the basepaths. I've been over Freel for a long time.

WVRedsFan
05-03-2008, 11:54 PM
I was in favor of playing him before tonight, especially since he was hot, but tonight just justified my opinion that we were foolish for extending him and crazy for not trading him after 2006 when he was the darling of the league. My guess is his trade value is about $0 right now.

Truth is, we don't really have a productive centerfielder right now. Heck, we don't have a productive outfield right now. Or any other position for that matter including our rumored improved pitching.

The pitching is somewhat improved, but the bullpen is the same song and dance. Tonight, Belisle did his usual tightrope act and gave way after 5.1 innings, allowing 8 hits. The bullpen pitched 2.2 innings and allowed 7 hits 7 runs 4 walks and only 1 strikeout.

In the meantime, the Reds got exactly 4 hits and have scored 9 runs in the last 5 games. In the last four, the Reds have scored 5 runs. They're averaging 1.8 runs and 6 hits per game over that period.

Sad.

cincrazy
05-03-2008, 11:59 PM
Ryan Freel is one of the few players on this roster actually performing.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Amazing. Ryan Freel just got picked off again. It's almost laughable now.

KronoRed
05-04-2008, 01:56 PM
Getting picked off should take away from OBP.

Hap
05-04-2008, 02:03 PM
He should have caught that ball. Now, he may be injured yet again.

icehole3
05-04-2008, 02:04 PM
he's driving me nuts with his decision making

WVRedsFan
05-04-2008, 02:09 PM
He's the one player on this team that you cannot look at the OBP to see if he's getting anything done. His poor baserunning and horrible decisions costs the team more than he adds to it.

If the umpires and Bobby Cox think so much of them, trade him or give him away to the Braves tomorrow and eat the flipping salary.

MrCinatit
05-04-2008, 02:12 PM
Freel is a continuation of the Pete Rose Curse.
With Pete, we had a kind of little guy who hustled a lot and played hard at all times. When we see another player who does the same, we embrace him - sometimes a little too much. There are a lot of Joe Sixpacks who love the guy (I've more than a few coworkers who are very surprised when I keep saying the team should have traded him a couple of years ago when his value was high - and that I think he hurts the team more than helps him with his style of play now more than anything else).
Unfortunately, as with the case of Sabo and more so Freel, they have a lot less talent than Rose and nowhere near the baseball smarts. And, now instead of having a hustling great player, we have a careless player who has a very good potential of hurting himself - and someone else.
It's that second part which has made me wish the Reds had gotten rid of him a long time.

fearofpopvol1
05-04-2008, 04:58 PM
Freel has pretty much outperformed any of the other "bench" players the Reds have. He is more expensive, but I do think he has his uses (as I've said before).

As I said, my biggest qualm with him is his baserunning, and he should not be given the green light to steal at this stage in his career.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 01:42 PM
As I said, my biggest qualm with him is his baserunning, and he should not be given the green light to steal at this stage in his career.

I love the stolen base, but I think Freel should be ordered to assume that he has the RED light unless told otherwise. In other words, Freel has lost the priviledge to try to steal whenever he feels like it. I agree that he's probably the worst baserunner the Reds have ever had.

bucksfan2
05-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Freel is truely a player that you can love and hate all in the same game. He can manufacture a run with a hit and can go get a ball in the gap. However for ever stolen base how many times does he get caught steeling or picked off? For every good catch how many bad jumps and bad routes cost the team outs? He is an enigma. In the same game he can put you in position to win the game and then give it away with a bone headed play.

Far East
05-05-2008, 04:15 PM
I love the stolen base...
I hate the stolen base attempts: the Reds have stolen 19, but have been caught 11 --not sure if pick-offs are counted here. It erases too many runners, prevents the turning over of the lineup, lessens the chance for a 2-run homer.

With the current roster, the Reds only small ball probably should be the pitchers (pitchers only) sac bunting, and a hit-and-run to break up a double play -- unless a contact guy like Keppinger or Hatteberg is batting.

mth123
05-05-2008, 08:30 PM
The thing about Freel is that while his supporters are pointing to his flash and daring and his critics are pointing to his lapses and frequent baserunning blunders, lost in it all is a guy who has a history of getting on base regularly with enough versatility to be very useful on a bench. He gets overexposed and wears down for sure, but used properly he is very valuable. My problem with Freel was always the insistence that he was one of the team's mainstays and that his baserunning was always thought to be such a critical ingredient. When viewed in the proper light as a guy who can come in and provide a spark while filling in for a couple weeks, Freel is very valuable. I think his contract is a little pricey and if the $4 Million he has coming next year is preventing the team from upgrading in more critical areas, then he should be moved (and that has been my stance in the past). But since it seems that Cast is willing to spend where needed and Freel's deal is not an impediment, he should not just be given away to move the contract or create a roster spot. He's the Red's best bench player (assuming Kepp is in the line-up) and is a better bench player than many team's have.

Topcat
05-05-2008, 09:18 PM
I would still trade him and take my chances with Bruce :beerme:

mth123
05-05-2008, 09:22 PM
I would still trade him and take my chances with Bruce :beerme:

Freel being on the team has nothing to do with Bruce.

WebScorpion
05-06-2008, 12:41 PM
I would still trade him and take my chances with Bruce :beerme:

Jay Bruce is 7-for-7 in Stolen Bases this season. ;) His OBP, however, is 40 points lower than Freel's. :eek:

KronoRed
05-06-2008, 12:46 PM
Jay Bruce is 7-for-7 in Stolen Bases this season. ;) His OBP, however, is 40 points lower than Freel's. :eek:

Freel's OBP should be lower considering his caught stealings ;)

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 01:11 PM
I hate the stolen base attempts: .

I love the stolen base in the right situation.. that's what I should have said.

Freel did another dumb move last night. He was on first, someone else was on 3b. There was two outs. Phillips at the plate. Reds up by two. Freel steals 2nd base. Thank God he wasn't caught, but why in the world would he take a risk like that? It was aboutg 50% likely that he was going to end the inning with a guy at 3b and Phlllips hititng. The Reds already had the lead, no sense in being reckless to put another runner in scoring position by stealing.

Marc D
05-06-2008, 01:30 PM
I love the stolen base in the right situation.. that's what I should have said.

Freel did another dumb move last night. He was on first, someone else was on 3b. There was two outs. Phillips at the plate. Reds up by two. Freel steals 2nd base. Thank God he wasn't caught, but why in the world would he take a risk like that? It was aboutg 50% likely that he was going to end the inning with a guy at 3b and Phlllips hititng. The Reds already had the lead, no sense in being reckless to put another runner in scoring position by stealing.


Not defending Freel but from what I saw that defensive indifference, there was no throw and I think it was because there was no one covering. (the Cubs knew we couldn't drive him in anyway so let him have 2nd ;) )

I was just walking back in the room at the time so I may be mistaken.

nate
05-06-2008, 01:37 PM
I love the stolen base in the right situation.. that's what I should have said.

Freel did another dumb move last night. He was on first, someone else was on 3b. There was two outs. Phillips at the plate. Reds up by two. Freel steals 2nd base. Thank God he wasn't caught, but why in the world would he take a risk like that? It was aboutg 50% likely that he was going to end the inning with a guy at 3b and Phlllips hititng. The Reds already had the lead, no sense in being reckless to put another runner in scoring position by stealing.

I just watched the game this morning and the Cubs weren't really defending on that play. IOW, "even Freel" couldn't mess up that "swipe."

Spitball
05-06-2008, 07:18 PM
... He's the Red's best bench player (assuming Kepp is in the line-up) and is a better bench player than many team's have.

Good post. As a player off the bench, I appreciate Freel being on the Reds. Like a valuable sixth man in basketball, Freel's versitility, speed, and on base ability provide the team multiple skills to provide a strategical weapon off the bench. The Reds should not over expose his exuberance.

smith288
05-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Freel is a walking "d'oh". I cant stand his game anymore.

That is all.