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View Full Version : Should the Reds go with young players and prospects?



Kc61
05-05-2008, 12:46 PM
Is there a point to salvaging the veteran core of the Reds? There are excellent young players on the team and in the pipeline. Shouldn't these young players be the focus at this point?

Should the Reds trade or otherwise divest most of their veteran players? Should this include their two valuable veteran pitchers, Harang and Cordero?
Reds could probably get a boatload of young players for those two. On the other hand, they are very good pitchers, hard to give up.

Under this scenario, Reds would keep Phillips, Votto, EE, Cueto, Volquez, Burton, Bruce, Bailey, Bray,and a few scattered lower cost veterans like Freel, Keppinger, Affeldt, Belisle, and probably some others. Some minor leaguers could be advanced to fill in the gaps.

This would reduce the payroll and allow them to pounce on some higher cost players when ready. If they choose to go this route.

Is this the right way to go?

edabbs44
05-05-2008, 12:51 PM
Is there a point to salvaging the veteran core of the Reds? There are excellent young players on the team and in the pipeline. Shouldn't these young players be the focus at this point?

Should the Reds trade or otherwise divest most of their veteran players? Should this include their two valuable veteran pitchers, Harang and Cordero?
Reds could probably get a boatload of young players for those two. On the other hand, they are very good pitchers, hard to give up.

Under this scenario, Reds would keep Phillips, Votto, EE, Cueto, Volquez, Burton, Bruce, Bailey, Bray,and a few scattered lower cost veterans like Freel, Keppinger, Burton, Affeldt, Belisle, and probably some others. Some minor leaguers could be advanced to fill in the gaps.

This would reduce the payroll and allow them to pounce on some higher cost players when ready. If they choose to go this route.

Is this the right way to go?

This was the way to go a couple of years ago.

Kc61
05-05-2008, 12:54 PM
This was the way to go a couple of years ago.

But they didn't really have the goods to field a team of kids a couple of years ago.

Now they have young guys ready or almost ready to go. So now, it's a real option for the FO.

OnBaseMachine
05-05-2008, 12:56 PM
It would take an enormous offer for me to even consider trading Aaron Harang. I'm talking a major leaguer, and two A prospects. Use the Braves as an example: It would take RHP Jair Jurrjens, OF Jason Heyward, and RHP Thomas Hanson before I would consider it. Now Cordero OTOH, I would be more willing to deal him but it would take a huge return also. The Tigers need some bullpen help - if they would deal Rick Porcello for Cordero I would do it, but it's highly doubtful they would.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 01:00 PM
I wouldn't trade Harang. He's the only ace this team has had in many years. Plus, he's signed cheaply for three more years. He'll still be here when these youngsters grow up, and he'll only be in his early thirties.

I don't think Cordero would have very much trade value with his contract and his opt-out clause that would be there if he was traded, so I'd hang onto him too.

Falls City Beer
05-05-2008, 01:02 PM
They are going with young players. This is a fairly young team.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 01:03 PM
It would take an enormous offer for me to even consider trading Aaron Harang. I'm talking a major leaguer, and two A prospects. Use the Braves as an example: It would take RHP Jair Jurrjens, OF Jason Heyward, and RHP Thomas Hanson before I would consider it.

Sub Yunel Escobar in for Hanson and then I'd consider it.


Now Cordero OTOH, I would be more willing to deal him but it would take a huge return also. The Tigers need some bullpen help - if they would deal Rick Porcello for Cordero I would do it, but it's highly doubtful they would.

Now THAT would be a deal! :thumbup:

edabbs44
05-05-2008, 01:29 PM
But they didn't really have the goods to field a team of kids a couple of years ago.

Now they have young guys ready or almost ready to go. So now, it's a real option for the FO.

True, but the mentality could have been there.

For instance, there would be no reason to break the record for most $$$ given to a FA reliever if you were going to go young a few months later.

And there would have been less reason to extend BA when they did.

flyer85
05-05-2008, 01:29 PM
go where?

dfs
05-05-2008, 01:43 PM
Under this scenario, Reds would keep Phillips, Votto, EE, Cueto, Volquez, Burton, Bruce, Bailey, Bray,and a few scattered lower cost veterans like Freel, Keppinger, Affeldt, Belisle, and probably some others.


OK. So you keep those guys. That means we can trade.....

A half season of Junior and the right to exercise a a 4 million dollar buy out of next year. Of course any trade of Junior involves getting Junior consent.

A half season of Adam Dunn. Again any trade involving Dunn involves getting his consent.

A half season of Cory Patterson with a three million dollar payout.

A half season of the remains of Scott Hatteberg who can play a decent first base and won't embarrass you in many at bats.

You can't trade A-gon. He's hurt.

David Ross, Javier Valentin, Paul Bako, Norris Hopper....No payout from that.

Weathers is hurt. Can't trade him. I can't imagine anybody trading anything of value for Brosnon Arroyo in the next couple of weeks. Josh Fogg and Kent Mercker aren't gonna bring anything of value in trade. Might as well ask if they are interetsted in Tom Shearn.

That leaves Aaron Harang as the one player you could drop that might return something of value. Now I have to ask you, how valuable the return would have to be in order to let Harang go?

I can't imagine the reds would let Harang go.

KronoRed
05-05-2008, 01:49 PM
go where?

6th?

Will M
05-05-2008, 02:10 PM
Keep: Votto-Phillips-Kep-EE-Bruce-Harang-Volquez-Cueto-Bailey-Codero-Bray-Burton.
These are the core youngsters plus the two key pitching vets.

EVERYONE else can go. Jocketty needs to looks at what he wants the
4-1-09 roster to look like and start moving forward. I do realize a LOT of our guys have little to no trade value but at least all the money ( except Freel and Arroyo ) is off the books at the end of this year.

Kc61
05-05-2008, 02:16 PM
OK. So you keep those guys. That means we can trade.....

A half season of Junior and the right to exercise a a 4 million dollar buy out of next year. Of course any trade of Junior involves getting Junior consent.

A half season of Adam Dunn. Again any trade involving Dunn involves getting his consent.

A half season of Cory Patterson with a three million dollar payout.

A half season of the remains of Scott Hatteberg who can play a decent first base and won't embarrass you in many at bats.

You can't trade A-gon. He's hurt.

David Ross, Javier Valentin, Paul Bako, Norris Hopper....No payout from that.

Weathers is hurt. Can't trade him. I can't imagine anybody trading anything of value for Brosnon Arroyo in the next couple of weeks. Josh Fogg and Kent Mercker aren't gonna bring anything of value in trade. Might as well ask if they are interetsted in Tom Shearn.

That leaves Aaron Harang as the one player you could drop that might return something of value. Now I have to ask you, how valuable the return would have to be in order to let Harang go?

I can't imagine the reds would let Harang go.

Obviously the Reds won't get much, if anything, for most of these guys. That's really not the purpose of this IMO.

The question is whether it makes sense to open up positions and major league spots for young kids and shed guys who aren't winning now and don't figure in the future. This would also bring some payflex to the Reds which can help with future moves.

Whether Harang and Cordero are kept or traded is a decision that could rationally go either way. Likely they would be kept. (I wouldn't trade them except for a big return, including serious young outfielders with righty bats.)

But even if you keep Harang and Cordero, you can "go young" with most of the rest of the team.

Joseph
05-05-2008, 02:28 PM
We fired the GM to oversee this already. I don't think there is much chance of that, regardless of what we want or think is best.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 02:36 PM
Really, the only dead weight that is returning next season is Freel and AGon.
I think all the other guys we'd want to trade are pending FAs.
Thus, there's not a whole lot of urgency to make trades just to clear payroll space.
Ideally, Walt only makes a trade that helps the team.

Some of these vets might be worth hanging on to for awhile. Lincoln is an example of one guy we might want to keep around. He's older, but may still have a few good years left in his arm.

fearofpopvol1
05-05-2008, 02:57 PM
Outside of Bruce (who is almost a sure thing to be with the club at some point this year) and Bailey (who may reach the team this year), what other young guns are left to promote? Most of the "vets" the Reds have aren't worth much in trades, if anything.

dfs
05-05-2008, 02:59 PM
The question is whether it makes sense to open up positions and major league spots for young kids and shed guys who aren't winning now and don't figure in the future.

The only young players on your list that could have playing time opened up for them would be Bruce and Bailey. 2 points. #1 First for whatever reasons the reds organization has decided that those two players are better off at AAA than with the major league team. If you're playing for the future, it makes sense to keep those two down on the farm as long as possible in order to put off arbitration as long as possible. #2 Those guys aren't being blocked by Cordero or Harang, your two tradable commodities.


This would also bring some payflex to the Reds which can help with future moves.
Tough to get out of that mode isn't it? Carl and Marge are gone. The reds are supposedly in the business of investing in talent and paying for a major league team. No matter what reds fan's have been sold over the years, Payflex, in and of itself, is a pretty lousy goal.

Kc61
05-05-2008, 03:16 PM
Outside of Bruce (who is almost a sure thing to be with the club at some point this year) and Bailey (who may reach the team this year), what other young guns are left to promote? Most of the "vets" the Reds have aren't worth much in trades, if anything.

Fair question.

If you go this route, you might also promote Janish as a backup infielder. You might promote Herrera who came along with Volquez from
Texas -- I know he's short of stature but has a remarkable minor league record at a young age. I think these two make more sense for the Reds right now than, say, Mercker and Hairston. Plus Bailey and Bruce. That's four right away who could come up by, say, mid-season.

Then you might re-evaluate later in the season. Perhaps by then guys like Thompson, Cumberland and Roenicke might be ready. I'm not saying this has to happen in one day or week, it may take awhile.

As for payroll flex, the Reds will need a few veterans to fill holes. A catcher, for example (although Bako has been fine this year). Maybe another pitcher. No harm in being able to go for them in the free agent market, although it's true that a lot of payroll room should open up at the end of the year even without moves.

Thread is just thinking out loud about whether the Reds need more emphasis on a youthful direction this year. That's all.

fearofpopvol1
05-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Fair question.

If you go this route, you might also promote Janish as a backup infielder. You might promote Herrera who came along with Volquez from
Texas -- I know he's short of stature but has a remarkable minor league record at a young age. I think these two make more sense for the Reds right now than, say, Mercker and Hairston. Plus Bailey and Bruce. That's four right away who could come up by, say, mid-season.

Then you might re-evaluate later in the season. Perhaps by then guys like Thompson, Cumberland and Roenicke might be ready. I'm not saying this has to happen in one day or week, it may take awhile.

As for payroll flex, the Reds will need a few veterans to fill holes. A catcher, for example (although Bako has been fine this year). Maybe another pitcher. No harm in being able to go for them in the free agent market, although it's true that a lot of payroll room should open up at the end of the year even without moves.

Thread is just thinking out loud about whether the Reds need more emphasis on a youthful direction. That's all.

Herrera is a guy I think that could see the club this year, but maybe more realistically next year. He's only logged like 6 innings at AAA, which is a tiny sample size. Janish just still can't seem to hit. His defense is obviously great, but I just don't see a spot for him unless Gonzo can be moved.

I think 3/4 you named have a real shot to move to the big league club this year and a very good chance that 2 of them will be here.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Fair question.

If you go this route, you might also promote Janish as a backup infielder. You might promote Herrera who came along with Volquez from
Texas -- I know he's short of stature but has a remarkable minor league record at a young age. I think these two make more sense for the Reds right now than, say, Mercker and Hairston. Plus Bailey and Bruce. That's four right away who could come up by, say, mid-season.

Then you might re-evaluate later in the season. Perhaps by then guys like Thompson, Cumberland and Roenicke might be ready. I'm not saying this has to happen in one day or week, it may take awhile.

As for payroll flex, the Reds will need a few veterans to fill holes. A catcher, for example (although Bako has been fine this year). Maybe another pitcher. No harm in being able to go for them in the free agent market, although it's true that a lot of payroll room should open up at the end of the year even without moves.

Thread is just thinking out loud about whether the Reds need more emphasis on a youthful direction this year. That's all.

I don't think these moves are necessary. In past years they would be, but now the (good) kids are already playing with the exception of Bruce and maybe Bailey. Bailey would be playing if he were ready, so that's not really a problem. I don't see the benefit in selling off veteran assets to make room for guys like Janish, who doesn't project to be anymore than a light-hitting utility guy.

Kc61
05-05-2008, 03:29 PM
This is also about today's move with Weathers. Who goes down to make room? I heard yesterday it might be Bray. Makes no sense to me to send out a young talent like Bray to accomodate players who won't be with the Reds if and when the team is competitive.

As for Janish, he's hit decently at AAA this year. By mid-season, if that continues, let him come up and start a utility career with the Reds. Every guy is not going to be a hitting star.

I think a bunch of young guys trying to compete, if reasonably ready, is perhaps a better idea than the current group which seems to be going noplace fast. But reasonable people can disagree on this.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 03:30 PM
This is also about today's move with Weathers. Who goes down to make room? I heard yesterday it might be Bray. Makes no sense to me to send out a young talent like Bray to accomodate players who won't be with the Reds if and when the team is competitive.

As for Janish, he's hit decently at AAA this year. By mid-season, if that continues, let him come up and start a utility career with the Reds. Every guy is not going to be a star.

I think a bunch of young guys trying to compete, if reasonably ready, is perhaps a better idea than the current group which seems to be going noplace fast. But reasonable people can disagree on this.

I agree- no way Bray should be demoted. I'd rather DFA Kent Mercker, or send down Norris Hopper.

Will M
05-05-2008, 03:34 PM
Weathers up & send Arroyo to the DL with a 'tired arm' ( then mri his elbow,shoulder & cervical spine and get him seen by an orthopedist ).

DFA Fogg and bring up Bailey to take Arroyo's spot.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 03:39 PM
Weathers up & send Arroyo to the DL with a 'tired arm' ( then mri his elbow,shoulder & cervical spine and get him seen by an orthopedist ).

DFA Fogg and bring up Bailey to take Arroyo's spot.

Agree with the first part. I'd let Bailey go another month in the 'Ville before considering a call-up. I'd rather see a spot start out of Justin Lehr or Jeremy Affeldt for the time being.

RedlegJake
05-05-2008, 03:54 PM
Pay flex is not a bad thing if your team isn't winning with high priced guys. Where did the idea come from that the Reds with Cast are willing to spend whatever it takes? Thats nuts. Castellini said he'd raise payroll when a chance came to add a needed piece. He never said he would spend 100 milion or more a year. Everyone who thinks the budget is no longer a concern is going to be sorely disappointed. Now Payflex for the sake of it -without a plan to use those dollars more efficiently is not good, but pay flex with a plan is ALWAYS a good thing.

Junior I'd move if a deal could be worked out that he'd accept. All I'd need in return is a minor leaguer. As much as I love Junior, in a cold baseball world he is simply not an asset to the Reds any more. His bat is replaceable, his defense is terrible, his arm is gone and he can't run. Bruce waits in the wings to take his place. If I couldn't trade him there is no way in the world I'd pick up his option.

Arroyo I'd trade because there is Thompson, Bailey, & Wood coming up for the future. Give me a decent hitting prospect, preferably a middle infielder or catcher and he's yours. Unless he starts improving though, I doubt he'd bring that much.

Dunn. Adam is a force and unless I get a knockout offer for him I'd keep him. That kind of offer is doubtful for what amounts to a rental and with his ability to limit the teams. Try to re-sign him but if he asks too much, I offer arb and let him walk, take the draft choices and use the same dollars in the FA market. Either way he doesn't represent payflex because you MUST replace him with a potent hitter. That is going to cost pretty much the same. I'd really try to sign him.

As for going young, that's well and good but bringing up guys before they're ready just to go young isn't a prescription for the future - it might well destroy the future. I mean, beyond Bruce and Bailey, who is ready? Janish? A defensive replacement type. Rosales? A good bench hitter likely but not an impact player. Frazier? Way, way too soon. Ditto Thompson. Roenicke is struggling with command. Viola looks bad so far this year. Pelland still has trouble throwing a fastball through an open barn door consistently. Dickerson would likely be CP redux.

I'd be all for dumping vets and going young if there were young players at AAA ready to roll. And trade Harang? Holy Moly. He'd better bring a better package than Bedard and Haren combined. Like Kemp, Kershaw and 2 others of our choice from the Dodgers. Or Hughes, Chamberlain and 2 more of our choice from the Yanks. That's how much I value Harang.

RedsManRick
05-05-2008, 03:59 PM
Let's remember that payflex is only a means to an end. In the end, you have to have enough talent to win. The point of payflex is based on the idea that you need to be able to have choices in adding talent. Having all of your money tied up locks you in to the current amount of talent you have. But if you don't have a plan for turning that money, that flexibility in to more talent, it's not really an asset. I agree, it's better to have $10M in the bank than $10M committed to a zero production player, but let's remember neither of them help us win more ballgames.

bucksfan2
05-05-2008, 04:34 PM
I do think the Reds should go young. The biggest question is the OF. Bruce should be the only lock once the trading deadline nears. Although I have never seen Dickerson play I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to think that he can be a similar player to Patterson. I have finally come to the point where Dunn and Jr. must go. Give me Votto in LF and replace him with an average 1B and I think the overall production will be similar to that of Dunn's. The Reds need too much from Dunn to endure his streaks and his defense just doesn't cut it. Heck replace him with Keppinger and Keppy may be a more productive all around player in LF. Here is my list of the players I am not going to move, rather build around.

1. Harang - Legit ace. Signed below market value over the next 3 years. Takes the ball every day and pitches well.
2. Volquez - Under the radar but has pitched as well as anyone in the NL for the start of the season.
3. Bruce - Still hasn't proven a thing but big things are expected out of him.
4. Cueto - Dynamic stuff. Has suffered some bumps in the road but will be dominant again.
5. Votto - Best pure hitter on the Reds.
6. Encarnacion - Still a love hate relationship with him but he is improving which is a good thing.
7. Bailey - Should be in Cincy soon. Hopefully he has figured it out.
8. Cordero - Closing just isn't as easy as some make it out to be. He has been lights out when put in a save situation.
9. Burton/Bray - Closers of the future? Big time arms with good stuff.
10. Keppy - He's a ball player. Flat out. The Reds need more players like Keppy.

With the exception of a few minor leaguers who are still a year away (Stubbs, Frazier, Thompson, Valakia, etc.) I am pretty much willing to move anyone.

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 04:39 PM
As for going young, that's well and good but bringing up guys before they're ready just to go young isn't a prescription for the future - it might well destroy the future. I mean, beyond Bruce and Bailey, who is ready?

Some of the young guys can be players taken from outside the organization that are received in trade for the vets. Guys like this:


Kemp, Kershaw and 2 others of our choice from the Dodgers. Or Hughes, Chamberlain and 2 more of our choice from the Yanks.



I like that KC is trying to address the current roster. It clearly isn't as close as we thought it was this offseason. I was wrong; I thought it would be playoff ready by 2009. But changes must happen, whether that is adding to the core or stripping it down and rebuilding.


Dickerson would likely be CP redux.

Let's find out. That is exactly what KC is proposing; why spend three million dollars for a known mediocre player when there is nothing to lose in finding out if a youngin' might be better than that?

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 04:41 PM
Heck replace him [Dunn] with Keppinger and Keppy may be a more productive all around player in LF.

I love me some Kepp, but I highly doubt that...

bucksfan2
05-05-2008, 04:50 PM
I love me some Kepp, but I highly doubt that...

Maybe, maybe not. Here was my thinking. Dunn is such an all or nothing player. When he his hot he can drive in loads of RBI's. When he is cold he is nothing more than a strike out waiting to happen. Keppinger on the other hand is a steady player. He definalty doesn't have the power that Dunn has but he isn't going to go through prolonged slumps like Dunn. When Dunn is slumping Keppy's bat is a huge upgrade over Dunn's. When Dunn is hot his bat is an upgrade over Keppy's. I would imagine that given a full season in LF Keppinger would be a marginal defensive upgrade over Dunn but will get better as the season goes along.

Maybe I overrate Keppinger. But Keppinger is a guy who is more often than not going to put the ball in play. He is going to spray it all over the field. The more I watch him he reminds me of a poor mans Larkin. He doesn't have the athleticism that Larkin had but IMO the way he hits is similar.

Benihana
05-05-2008, 04:51 PM
Pay flex is not a bad thing if your team isn't winning with high priced guys. Where did the idea come from that the Reds with Cast are willing to spend whatever it takes? Thats nuts. Castellini said he'd raise payroll when a chance came to add a needed piece. He never said he would spend 100 milion or more a year. Everyone who thinks the budget is no longer a concern is going to be sorely disappointed. Now Payflex for the sake of it -without a plan to use those dollars more efficiently is not good, but pay flex with a plan is ALWAYS a good thing.

Junior I'd move if a deal could be worked out that he'd accept. All I'd need in return is a minor leaguer. As much as I love Junior, in a cold baseball world he is simply not an asset to the Reds any more. His bat is replaceable, his defense is terrible, his arm is gone and he can't run. Bruce waits in the wings to take his place. If I couldn't trade him there is no way in the world I'd pick up his option.

Arroyo I'd trade because there is Thompson, Bailey, & Wood coming up for the future. Give me a decent hitting prospect, preferably a middle infielder or catcher and he's yours. Unless he starts improving though, I doubt he'd bring that much.

Dunn. Adam is a force and unless I get a knockout offer for him I'd keep him. That kind of offer is doubtful for what amounts to a rental and with his ability to limit the teams. Try to re-sign him but if he asks too much, I offer arb and let him walk, take the draft choices and use the same dollars in the FA market. Either way he doesn't represent payflex because you MUST replace him with a potent hitter. That is going to cost pretty much the same. I'd really try to sign him.

As for going young, that's well and good but bringing up guys before they're ready just to go young isn't a prescription for the future - it might well destroy the future. I mean, beyond Bruce and Bailey, who is ready? Janish? A defensive replacement type. Rosales? A good bench hitter likely but not an impact player. Frazier? Way, way too soon. Ditto Thompson. Roenicke is struggling with command. Viola looks bad so far this year. Pelland still has trouble throwing a fastball through an open barn door consistently. Dickerson would likely be CP redux.

I'd be all for dumping vets and going young if there were young players at AAA ready to roll. And trade Harang? Holy Moly. He'd better bring a better package than Bedard and Haren combined. Like Kemp, Kershaw and 2 others of our choice from the Dodgers. Or Hughes, Chamberlain and 2 more of our choice from the Yanks. That's how much I value Harang.

Good post. :clap: I agree with most of it.

wheels
05-05-2008, 04:58 PM
I actually don't care about the aggregate age of the roster at this point.

I'd just like to see a mix of players that, you know, make sense.

I'm sick of Lefty/Lefty platoons, three catchers, redundant fifth outfielders and the like.

I love the two young pitchers, and I love Arron Harang, but aside from the sheer spectacle of Griffey's impending 600th blast, and the fun I'll have when Dunn breaks out of his slugging funk, this club is an absolute abomination.

Just get the 25 man to work. Just get some players that compliment each other. I don't care about the means.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Fair question.

If you go this route, you might also promote Janish as a backup infielder. You might promote Herrera who came along with Volquez from
Texas --.

I'd prefer to wait until those guys are ready or it's been determined that they are legit major leaguers. The Reds have promoted young guys to fill holes before.. guys like Olmedo who really weren't prospects at all and ended up playing well below replacement level. Guys like Mercker are contributing.. why boot them off the roster just for the sake of promoting another young guy who is likely to stink? People couldn't wait for Coffey to get demoted. I doubt they will have patience when Herra gets lit up.

The grim reality is that guys like Janish aren't likely to be anything special. Why waste playing time on them when the team is already on the hook for Harriston's salary? I could see next year forgoing signing a backup veteran utility infielder if you think Janish could handle the role, but at this point, bringing up youth just for the sake of getting younger has no guarantee of making the future brighter.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:39 PM
This is also about today's move with Weathers. Who goes down to make room? I heard yesterday it might be Bray. Makes no sense to me to send out a young talent like Bray to accomodate players who won't be with the Reds if and when the team is competitive.
.

Bray, like Coffey is a bubble guy.
I agree that ideally the Reds need to determine if both Coffey and Bray will be a part of the team next year. Having them at AAA does not help.
Unfortunately, it also doesn't make sense to cut Mercker or Lincoln (who are producing well) to keep Bray.
Ironically, the best move would be to simply cut Weathers. Even better would've been to trade Weathers at the deadline last season, as many were hoping for, but Wayne made him untouchable.

Seems like Wayne planned his bullpen this season under the assumption that Bray and Maj were on the way out. He had some hope for Coffey, but seemed to give up on Maj and Bray...

Kc61
05-05-2008, 05:49 PM
I'd prefer to wait until those guys are ready or

The grim reality is that guys like Janish aren't likely to be anything special. Why waste playing time on them when the team is already on the hook for Harriston's salary? I could see next year forgoing signing a backup veteran utility infielder if you think Janish could handle the role, but at this point, bringing up youth just for the sake of getting younger has no guarantee of making the future brighter.


Because Janish is hitting .270 at AAA, is a great fielder, and some guys do better when they finally get to the show. I think the question is why have Hairston on the team when he doesn't fit into the long-term plan? For this year?

And if Janish is perhaps going to be next year's utility man, why not give him some at bats and playing time at the major league level to get ready for that?

And yes, there is no guarantee Janish will make the future brighter. Let's find out.

pahster
05-05-2008, 06:02 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Here was my thinking. Dunn is such an all or nothing player. When he his hot he can drive in loads of RBI's. When he is cold he is nothing more than a strike out waiting to happen.

Not really. Dunn's slumping something fierce right now and is still second on the team in OBP (.375).

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 07:12 PM
And yes, there is no guarantee Janish will make the future brighter. Let's find out.

But why bring up Janish just to have him sit on the bench? Why not leave him in AAA to get playing time? Unless you want to bench Keppinger to give him playing time... IMO, we need to see if Keppenger can maintain this level of production over an entire season..

I think the team needs to make room for Coffey and Bray before they worry about promoting Herra, who is a very marginal prospect. Maybe call him up when the rosters expand, but right now, there's no room for him.

Fogg and Belisle have improved a bit over the last week or so, and have earned a little more time. Perhaps if Belisle pitches badly, he should be DFAed to open up a slot for a younger pitcher. Cast might be willing to eat Fogg's contract in a couple of months, but my guess is that he wants Jocketty to trade contracts at the deadline after having to munch on Castro and Stanton already, and that's reasonable. Swapping Bray in and Fogg out really isn't going to amount to a hill of beans in the W-L column anyway.

Spring~Fields
05-05-2008, 07:36 PM
Kc61's premise seems to hold some promise.

All of the good or outstanding players had to come from somewhere at one time, that was a time when they were searched for and found, a time when they were young and unknown, or had slipped through the cracks along the way to eventually be discovered.
Sometimes I think that a fan forgets that, in their haste and insistence, to ask, when, where, how, who, forgetting that most come from just looking to begin with, as a new group come along almost every year.
The good organizations and bad alike seem to find them.

IslandRed
05-06-2008, 11:40 AM
And if Janish is perhaps going to be next year's utility man, why not give him some at bats and playing time at the major league level to get ready for that?

Calling up a kid to see if he's ready to help only works if you objectively believe he's ready to help. If you call up a player that you don't really think is ready, you're largely pre-determining the conclusion you're going to draw from his major-league trial -- and it may not be the correct answer.

As to where they think Janish is, I don't know.