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View Full Version : Blogger on Marty's game-calling: That poor (expletive) has simply lost it



Unassisted
05-05-2008, 03:10 PM
The third paragraph is a scathing indictment of Marty's game-calling from a high-profile Braves-fan blogger.

http://shysterball.blogspot.com/2008/05/and-that-happened_05.html


And That Happened

Braves 14, Reds 7: Mrs. Shyster came into the living room yesterday afternoon and told me that I had to fix the shelves in the garage. Her view: the screws holding the standards in the wall are hanging by a thread, and sooner or later 75 pounds of garage crap is going to fall onto her station wagon. My view: I'm the one who did the substandard job of putting those shelves up in the first place, so I'm in the unique position to know that if they haven't fallen down by now, they're probably not going to fall any time soon. Maybe. Besides: the wagon is a Volvo, and the Swedish build those things tough. Now will you please let me watch the ballgame?

Five minutes later I was in the garage with a drill in my hand listening to the Braves and Reds on the radio. This was actually OK, because my first exposure to baseball was over the radio, and I often forget how enjoyable it is to listen to a game on a sunny Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately, I was listening to Marty Brennaman, and that poor bastard has simply lost it. Look, we all hate to listen to homer announcers, and we all find it refreshing when the guys in the booth tell the tough truths. Brennaman, however, is long past that stage and is deep into angry and bitter disgust with the Redlegs. Sure, the seven-run second inning would be tough on anyone, but Brennaman made it sound like he was being forced to watch the commission of war crimes. He sounds like a man who truly hates his job, and truly hates the Reds. As a Braves fan enjoying the pasting I should have been reveling in just how bent out of shape he was, but I was mostly just embarrassed for him. Perhaps the most telling thing was the fact that I was actually happy when Jeff Brantley took over next inning. It was so discombobulating that I plan to blame Brennaman when the new shelves come crashing down on the Volvo next winter.

George Anderson
05-05-2008, 03:15 PM
If this guy grew up listening to the bland and boring Chip Carey then I'd say he would find Marty a little over the top.

Strikes Out Looking
05-05-2008, 03:17 PM
Hey, I'm deep into angry and bitter disgust with the Redlegs. Poor Marty has to watch them day in and day out-I couldn't do it.

dfs
05-05-2008, 03:21 PM
He's absolutely spot on.

15fan
05-05-2008, 03:22 PM
Somewhere there's an island with no microphones or typewriters.

The sooner that Marty, Hal McCoy, and Skip Carey find that island, the better off we'll all be.

Always Red
05-05-2008, 03:33 PM
He's absolutely spot on.

and he's completely objective; he had no reason to care one way or another.

RedsManRick
05-05-2008, 03:39 PM
I don't want ignorant homerism, but the last few years, Marty has seemed openly hostile. Now, that might be more of a criticism of the Reds than Marty -- but it's hard to distinguish at this point.

Edskin
05-05-2008, 03:43 PM
I have NO issue with Marty "telling it like it is" when it comes to the Reds. In the end, I certainly prefer that over the George Grande style. However, what has always irked me about Marty is that he makes it seem as if he is ABOVE it all. As if HE deserves to be calling games for a good club like he back in the 70's.

Here's the thing with local guys-- they are relevant as long as the team is relevant. The Reds have irrelevant for a LONG time, which means, well, you figure it out......and I think Marty just can't handle that.

AtomicDumpling
05-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Marty whines like a little sissy all the time. I can't stand to listen to him anymore. He makes me sick.

I have better things to do than listen to a bitter little man act like a spoiled child.

If he hates his job so much then he should just retire.

Even when he is not throwing a tantrum he is still difficult to listen to. He goes off on goofy, rambling stories that have nothing to do with baseball.

Ever since Joe Nuxhall left the booth it has been Marty's show. Marty has a bad attitude that is just no fun to listen to. As long as Joe was there Marty tended to keep his ego in check. But now that Joe is gone Marty thinks he can just say whatever he is feeling and nobody has any right to question him. "Telling it like it is" is only good if you have an intelligent comprehension of what is going on, and I don't think Marty is an intelligent baseball man. He is just a scrawny geek with no athletic ability or experience. He is a play-by-play man that is supposed to tell us what happened. His opinion is meaningless. He should let the color guys do the explaining and interpretation while he just sticks to describing the events.

Joe kept things positive and made it fun to tune in to the game even when the team was losing. Joe realized that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Marty seems to believe if you lose it is because you are lazy, dumb and incompetent. What gets me is that he actually believes his criticisms will have an effect on the team. Does anybody think his whining is going to cause the team's management to make changes they otherwise wouldn't make? I certainly don't.

I think Marty is turning off thousands of young fans to Reds baseball. What teenager wants to tune in to a nasty old geezer ranting and raving about the home team?

The Reds need to clean house on their announcing team. I really don't care much for any of them. I think Nuxy spoiled us for decades.

Listening to baseball is supposed to be fun -- even when they are losing. It is not fun anymore and it is largely Marty's fault.

Ltlabner
05-05-2008, 04:07 PM
Marty seems to believe if you lose it is because you are a lazy, dumb and incompetent.

Funny, because RZ seems to believe if you lose it is beacause your GM was lazy, dumb and incompetent.

dougdirt
05-05-2008, 04:10 PM
Marty whines like a little sissy all the time. I can't stand to listen to him anymore. He makes me sick.

I have better things to do than listen to a bitter little man act like a spoiled child.

If he hates his job so much then he should just retire.

Even when he is not throwing a tantrum he is still difficult to listen to. He goes off on goofy, rambling stories that have nothing to do with baseball.


100% agree.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 04:17 PM
I listened to Marty on the same game. The sad thing is that even though it was a blowout, it wasn't noticably different than any other game. In other words, it's not as if the Blogger caught Marty on a bad day. He pretty much got the same Marty we've heard all year.. Whining constantly about how no one hits with runners in scoring position, the Reds only have 1 rbi with 2 outs and RISP (or something like that), etc, etc.

The contradiction is that Marty thinks Wayne got a raw deal.. :confused: I don't understand that, unless maybe Marty liked Wayne on a personal level. I mean Marty has no mercy blasting the team Wayne designed..

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 04:29 PM
Joe kept things positive and made it fun to tune in to the game even when the team was losing. Joe realized that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Marty seems to believe if you lose it is because you are lazy, dumb and incompetent. What .

Well said. I really underestimated Joe's impact on the broadcast. Marty would start going off on one of his "the Reds stink" rants, and Joe could real him in by saying something like "Well, maybe we can get a few runs this inning".. and go back to talking about the game.

Sure, I can understand Marty's frustration, but it's his job to be professional.
Comparing Marty to Redszone doesn't justify Marty's behavior. I'm willing to bet that if 99% of us were given the opportunity to call a Reds' game, we'd be more more professional and diplomatic than Marty. Marty is a Reds' employee that is supposed to be promoting the product. He doesn't have to be a homer, but it's not his job to drive people

Why Marty still has a job is beyond me. I wish Cast had the guts to fire the "Hall of Famer" .. BTW. Marty being in the HOF proves that the broadcaster's HOF is a total joke. Hal McCoy deserves it due to his longevity and being the only pre-internet source of Reds news a long time ago.. but Marty does not deserve to be immortalized outside Marty's own mind...

KronoRed
05-05-2008, 04:36 PM
Hey, I'm deep into angry and bitter disgust with the Redlegs. Poor Marty has to watch them day in and day out-I couldn't do it.

No he doesn't, no one forces him to work.

Ltlabner
05-05-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm willing to bet that if 99% of us were given the opportunity to call a Reds' game, we'd be more more professional and diplomatic than Marty.

You have actually read Redzone before right? Read a game thread? This place has had major reoginzations of the forum and complete shut-down of the game thread because people can't act like adults.

But somehow on air they'd be pros? Please. What a complete load of horsecrap.

As if Marty trying to downplay the horrific level of play the Reds have produced thus far would somehow trick the fans into thinking they were watching good baseball. Funny how the boo's at the stadium are everybit as loud and bitter as Marty's comments after a particularly boneheaded play. It's almost as if the fans are smart enough to figure out the Reds stink all by themselves and woln't be fooled by a white-wash.

I'm just going to back out of this now, however, as I know most of RZ is anti-Marty. People with strong opinions hate others with strong opions. Once this thread has run it's corse it will be time for (1) Dunn strikes out too much (2) Dusty's line up stinks and (3) stats vs scouts threads. It's as predictable as the tide and taxes here in the land of "higher level" discussion.

Sea Ray
05-05-2008, 04:48 PM
I have NO issue with Marty "telling it like it is" when it comes to the Reds. In the end, I certainly prefer that over the George Grande style.


Today's Enquirer quoted Marty as saying "They may never win another game."

Now is that telling it like it is or might that be a little over the top in belittling the product he ought to be promoting?

That sounds a little childish to me and not telling it like it is. I think the Reds are playing horribly but I don't think it's realistic to think they'll go winless the rest of this year

guttle11
05-05-2008, 04:49 PM
Marty is not really any different than many of us, he's a fan. He's seen the good and the bad, and now, the annual ugliness.

The only difference is that we communicate through text read by a few hundred. Marty talks to many thousands...

SunDeck
05-05-2008, 04:50 PM
I haven't liked listening to Marty for a long time. He has always struck me as a guy who confuses complaining with telling it like it is.

The Reds suck. They have for quite a while now. Marty makes it painful to listen to a game. The Cubs sucked back in the 80s when I started watching them on WGN, but I never got tired of listening to Jack Brickhouse and Harry Caray.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-05-2008, 04:53 PM
You have actually read Redzone before right? Read a game thread? This place has had major reoginzations of the forum and complete shut-down of the game thread because people can't act like adults.

But somehow on air they'd be pros? Please. What a complete load of horsecrap.

As if Marty trying to downplay the horrific level of play the Reds have produced thus far would somehow trick the fans into thinking they were watching good baseball. Funny how the boo's at the stadium are everybit as loud and bitter as Marty's comments after a particularly boneheaded play. It's almost as if the fans are smart enough to figure out the Reds stink all by themselves and woln't be fooled by a white-wash.

I'm just going to back out of this now, however, as I know most of RZ is anti-Marty. People with strong opinions hate others with strong opions. Once this thread has run it's corse it will be time for (1) Dunn strikes out too much (2) Dusty's line up stinks and (3) stats vs scouts threads. It's as predictable as the tide and taxes here in the land of "higher level" discussion.

No offense abner, but this constant griping about the griping on the Redszone is just as bad as the griping itself and it's also a tad over-exaggerated as well I might add.

Both are beating a dead horse. The discussion has gotten pretty bland as is. Unless, of course, you dig discussing favorite albums and books over on the non-baseball side. Seems like there's more interesting discussion over there right now and here we are sitting in the middle of baseball season on a board that was designed to discuss baseball.

Yachtzee
05-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Marty is not really any different than many of us, he's a fan. He's seen the good and the bad, and now, the annual ugliness.

The only difference is that we communicate through text read by a few hundred. Marty talks to many thousands...

Well, there is a big difference. He gets paid to give us a play-by-play of the game as it occurs on the field, something he's been failing to do for years now. Does that count as "lack of hustle" or "not playing the game the right way?"

guttle11
05-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Well, there is a big difference. He gets paid to give us a play-by-play of the game as it occurs on the field, something he's been failing to do for years now. Does that count as "lack of hustle" or "not playing the game the right way?"

I disagree. He's paid to call the game as he sees it, in his own way. He wouldn't have been here this long and especially up for HOF consideration if he just did "play by play". If he sees it one way and someone else thinks that's whining or hyperbole in any way, so be it. It's fine to have an opinion of him and/or his style, but let's be honest here, he's talking about the game just like we do (well, did) here at Redszone.

It's virtually the same thing.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:05 PM
You have actually read Redzone before right? Read a game thread?

Please. What a complete load of horsecrap.

There's a difference between calling a game on national radio and posting on a message board. Just like people tend to be on their best behavior on a first date vs how they act with their drinking buddies.

I stand by what I said. Put a Redszone guy behind the microphone and he's probably a lot more professional than Marty is. Probably a lot more interesting too. Most folks here would be a bit more diplomatic if they were on national radio as opposed to a game thread.







As if Marty trying to downplay the horrific level of play the Reds have produced thus far would somehow trick the fans into thinking they were watching good baseball.


No one is saying Marty should be a homer or try to con us into thinking this is a great team. Ironically though, Marty does push his favorites whether it is merited or not...




I'm just going to back out of this now, however, as I know most of RZ is anti-Marty.

Why do you expect us to "white wash" Marty? He's a horrible announcer. He's the Eric Milton of radio broadcasting.. Used to be decent, but now is simply horrible.




People with strong opinions hate others with strong opions. Once this thread has run it's corse it will be time for (1) Dunn strikes out too much (2) Dusty's line up stinks and (3) stats vs scouts threads. It's as predictable as the tide and taxes here in the land of "higher level" discussion.

And you have a strong opinion on this as well. Nothing wrong with that. If you don't agree with it, you dismiss it as "low level discussion". Why should Marty be a sacred cow?

Last season, I stopped listening to the Reds around August because I could no longer take listening to Marty. He's one of the few people with the ablity to suck all the fun out of baseball games. The game threads are great in comparison.. back when we had them, it was nice to read them during the game as it helped counteract Marty...

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:11 PM
Well, there is a big difference. He gets paid to give us a play-by-play of the game as it occurs on the field, something he's been failing to do for years now. Does that count as "lack of hustle" or "not playing the game the right way?"


Yep, he harps on the players for not taking extra fielding/hitting or lack of concentration.. Yet, what preperation does he do for his own job? Very little. He depends on the 2nd inning guest to give everyone the latest scoop from the FO and rumor mill.. I haven't heard Marty bring anything to the booth with him that is relevant in a long time. And as far as lack of concentration, Marty goes out of his way to try to find non baseball stuff to talk about.

Yet, he makes a point of it yesterday to mention Skip Carrey's comment about "The bases are loaded, and I bet Dusty Baker wishes he was loaded too" (Carey said that during this series, apparently). He's willing to work to find negative material to slam the Reds, but can't be bothered with asking Jacoby or another Reds' guy about something interesting to share on the broadcast.

RedsManRick
05-05-2008, 05:14 PM
There's a difference between calling a game on national radio and posting on a message board. Just like people tend to be on their best behavior on a first date vs how they act with their drinking buddies.

I stand by what I said. Put a Redszone guy behind the microphone and he's probably a lot more professional than Marty is. Probably a lot more interesting too. Most folks here would be a bit more diplomatic if they were on national radio as opposed to a game thread.

I have to wonder if that's just it. Marty considers being a national broadcaster his right. Just as many of us post on RedsZone as if we have complete freedom to do post whatever we want (and have to be reminded otherwise), Marty feels no need to put a filter between his brain and his mouth. To some degree, he's earned that right. I just wonder how he might call the game differently if he didn't feel (apparently) above the law.

Being critical is completely welcome in certain situations, but non-stop negativity simply isn't entertaining radio.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:23 PM
Being critical is completely welcome in certain situations, but non-stop negativity simply isn't entertaining radio.

I remember Marty broadcasting those horrible 80's teams. He wasn't bitter and hateful as he is now. He didn't act as if he couldn't wait until the game was over to get out of there. He was professional without being a homer. If he broadcasted in the 80's as he does now, I wouldn't be a Reds fan, as the radio and the Sporting News was my only link to the team.

Now when Marty reports the score of an extra inning game, he'll say "Better them than us"..

redsmetz
05-05-2008, 05:30 PM
The only person who seems to have any control over Marty's negativity is Tom, who tries to move him away from being such a downer. Poor Jeff Brantley just doesn't have the chops to make up for Marty's moodiness. It really is difficult to listen to.

cincrazy
05-05-2008, 05:33 PM
Marty is not really any different than many of us, he's a fan. He's seen the good and the bad, and now, the annual ugliness.

The only difference is that we communicate through text read by a few hundred. Marty talks to many thousands...

Spot on.

Would everyone please remind me why the game threads don't currently exist? Because the majority of Redszone acts like Marty. If so many people have a problem with him, where is there so much hatred spewn during the game threads?

RedsManRick
05-05-2008, 05:37 PM
Spot on.

Would everyone please remind me why the game threads don't currently exist? Because the majority of Redszone acts like Marty. If so many people have a problem with him, where is there so much hatred spewn during the game threads?

If we were being well compensated for the quality of our comments, I imagine we'd be more thoughtful.

WVRedsFan
05-05-2008, 05:39 PM
Today's Enquirer quoted Marty as saying "They may never win another game."

Now is that telling it like it is or might that be a little over the top in belittling the product he ought to be promoting?

That sounds a little childish to me and not telling it like it is. I think the Reds are playing horribly but I don't think it's realistic to think they'll go winless the rest of this year

I don't know, sea Ray. I sometimes feel that way, and I'm glad someone else does too. I listen to George Grande's smiling voice putting a good spin on everything and want to vommit. I've noticed that Chris has taken the opposite view lately. Yesterday, Grande kept on in his motor mouth way talking about the greatness of Freel, who had just dove for a ball and it hit him in the arm and allowed the runner to take an extra base, and Welsh says, yeah he hustleds too much a lot of the time, or something like that.

It's very difficult to look at this mess, which has been going on for nearly 8 years and be all sunny about it.

redsfaninbsg
05-05-2008, 05:42 PM
Really if I ever got a job similar to Marty's there is no way I could be as much of a die hard fan as I am right now. I just couldn't endure it, hell I turn the Reds sometimes when I get upset at them. Marty doesn't have that option.

Big Klu
05-05-2008, 05:49 PM
Why do you expect us to "white wash" Marty? He's a horrible announcer. He's the Eric Milton of radio broadcasting.. Used to be decent, but now is simply horrible.

This would be an opinion. A lot of people (myself included) think he does a fine job.


I don't know, sea Ray. I sometimes feel that way, and I'm glad someone else does too. I listen to George Grande's smiling voice putting a good spin on everything and want to vommit. I've noticed that Chris has taken the opposite view lately. Yesterday, Grande kept on in his motor mouth way talking about the greatness of Freel, who had just dove for a ball and it hit him in the arm and allowed the runner to take an extra base, and Welsh says, yeah he hustleds too much a lot of the time, or something like that.

It's very difficult to look at this mess, which has been going on for nearly 8 years and be all sunny about it.

I agree with WVRed. I feel the same way that he does when watching what's going on, and I'm glad that somebody who has a voice is able to speak about it.



The only person who seems to have any control over Marty's negativity is Tom, who tries to move him away from being such a downer. Poor Jeff Brantley just doesn't have the chops to make up for Marty's moodiness. It really is difficult to listen to.

I think that Chris Welsh and Jeff Brantley should switch positions. In my opinion, Brantley is much more knowledgable and informative on TV than he is on the radio--and I think Welsh could be Marty's counterpoint (like Joe used to be) much better than Brantley.

RedsFan75
05-05-2008, 05:50 PM
The only person who seems to have any control over Marty's negativity is Tom, who tries to move him away from being such a downer. Poor Jeff Brantley just doesn't have the chops to make up for Marty's moodiness. It really is difficult to listen to.

Wonder if we put Marty (Negative) and George ( Mr. Positive) in the booth together if we'd get an implosion... (Kinda like the Star Trek Matter/Anti-Matter thought.)

It might be interesting to hear Marty and George together on a broadcast!?!

Always Red
05-05-2008, 05:51 PM
The Cubs sucked back in the 80s when I started watching them on WGN, but I never got tired of listening to Jack Brickhouse and Harry Caray.

The White Sox sucked back in the mid-80's when I was lucky enough to live in Chicago. No way could I root for the blankin "Cubbies" so I became a White Sox fan by default. I loved listening to Don Drysdale and Ken "The Hawk" Harrelson doing White Sox games- they were hilarious, and those guys had a ball. Didn't seem to matter what the Sox did on the field, those guys just loved being there. They could be critical, but they always did it with a keen sense of humor, IIRC.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 05:58 PM
Spot on.

Would everyone please remind me why the game threads don't currently exist?

Because there's a small minority that can't refrain from making personal attacks. This small minority forces the game thread to be moderated every night which is a lot of work.

Overall, the game thread content is much higher quality than Marty.

AtomicDumpling
05-05-2008, 06:28 PM
I became a Reds fan back in the early 80's when the Reds were not very good. I enjoyed listening to Marty and Joe. It was relaxing and made me feel good. If the Reds won it was great, if they lost it was still good.

I imagine if I was 13 years old right now I would be turned off by listening to Marty and the crew. It is just not any fun. His job is to make people want to listen and enjoy it. I think Marty is doing a lot of harm to the Reds future by failing to entertain the fans. If they don't listen they are less likely to become/stay diehard Reds fans. They are less likely to attend the games. Then the Reds make less money, have less money to spend on players and are less likely to ever be a good team again.

The announcing crew has a large impact on the fan base and hence the team itself. The Reds cannot afford to have a grumpy, nasty hater in the broadcast booth.

CrackerJack
05-05-2008, 06:53 PM
Marty should've left his high standards back in the pre-free agency era, roughly 17 years ago, where they've since been put to rest when it comes to Cincinnati professional sports.

cincrazy
05-05-2008, 07:14 PM
Because there's a small minority that can't refrain from making personal attacks. This small minority forces the game thread to be moderated every night which is a lot of work.

Overall, the game thread content is much higher quality than Marty.

I disgaree with that statement my friend. I quit reading the game threads period because they often times turned into all out personal attacks. Maybe it was only 2 or 3 people every night, but it seemed to me to be 2 or 3 DIFFERENT people every night. Emotions run high, people get upset with losing, it happens to Marty, it happens to us.

gonelong
05-05-2008, 08:13 PM
I'm just going to back out of this now, however, as I know most of RZ is anti-Marty.

To quote you, "What a complete load of horsecrap."

Redszone is in no way "anti-Marty" as a group. It's probably about 85% or greater "pro-Marty". Besides, I am not "anti-Marty", I just don't enjoy listening to him call the game any more. Live and let live I say.


It's as predictable as the tide and taxes here in the land of "higher level" discussion.

Its up to all of us to raise the level of discussion, **each** time we post.

GL

Unassisted
05-05-2008, 09:13 PM
We've established that this prominent blogger dude has no reason to slag Marty, and that his impression was formed based solely on his work.

The thing I wonder now is what Walt Jocketty, who had little reason to listen to Reds radio broadcasts before this season, must think about his club having a senior PBP announcer in the booth who so thoroughly trashes the product on the field. Walt is a guy who has the owner's ear. He's a guy whose opinion is respected by the owner. If Castellini points to home attendance as a performance indicator for GMs, Walt would be perfectly within his rights to point to the team's senior broadcast voice as a big factor in why fans stay home. Walt could throw Marty under the bus.

We know now that personnel decisions are sometimes made by Mr. Castellini on a knee-jerk, even emotional basis. Is it unreasonable to expect that Marty could show up for work one day and find that he is out of a job because he was made a scapegoat for flagging attendance?

GAC
05-05-2008, 09:13 PM
There's a difference between calling a game on national radio and posting on a message board. Just like people tend to be on their best behavior on a first date vs how they act with their drinking buddies.

Why is there a difference? The play of this team is horrendous whether you're watching it in the booth or on a message board. But because he's in that booth he is somehow suppose to overlook or "soft soap" what he is observing, and what an overwhelming majority of the fans have been saying for years?

That would, IMHO, make him look like a bigger fool. Then you'd have the fans leveling accusations at him like.... "Is this guy watching the same team we are?" or "He's just towing the company line."

The guy loves this team and organization. Yes, he has an ego. Most in those booths and within the media for any length of time do. That doesn't bother me at all.

But I can't believe that many are criticizing a guy for not only telling it like it is; but saying those things that a majority of us agree with? I could care less because it's being done publically.

Why is it any different from behind that mike, or whether it's an article in the Enquirer, Post, or whatever, read daily by tens of thousands that says the same thing?

Diplomacy? Professionalism? OK. I agree that he probably could find a more professional way to express the same disgust we all have towards this team's current play and the fact it's pretty bad. But a majority of the times he has been very critical of this team he has done so AFTER he has put forth some number/stats to support that position. Whether it's how our 3-4-5 guys are doing with RISP, or individual performances (Arroyo, Dunn), whatever.

Give'em hell Harry! :lol:



He's one of the few people with the ablity to suck all the fun out of baseball games. The game threads are great in comparison.. back when we had them, it was nice to read them during the game as it helped counteract Marty...

counteract Marty?

Respectfully, I can't believe what I am reading. RR you have been one of the most vocal and critical opponents of this FO and team since this forum began. You've rarely let up over the years. And you have a right to do so, and some of the stuff you've stated I actually have agreed with. The game threads had evolved into 90 pages of griping, whining, and complaining about this team's construction and play day in and day out. They had become laughable.

But because Marty is on the radio he somehow shouldn't be doing it. I disagree.

gm
05-05-2008, 09:24 PM
We've established that this prominent blogger dude has no reason to slag Marty, and that his impression was formed based solely on his work.

The thing I wonder now is what Walt Jocketty, who had little reason to listen to Reds radio broadcasts before this season, must think about his club having a senior PBP announcer in the booth who so thoroughly trashes the product on the field. Walt is a guy who has the owner's ear. He's a guy whose opinion is respected by the owner. If Castellini points to home attendance as a performance indicator for GMs, Walt would be perfectly within his rights to point to the team's senior broadcast voice as a big factor in why fans stay home. Walt could throw Marty under the bus.

We know now that personnel decisions are sometimes made by Mr. Castellini on a knee-jerk, even emotional basis. Is it unreasonable to expect that Marty could show up for work one day and find that he is out of a job because he was made a scapegoat for flagging attendance?

Can you imagine the backlash in Redsland if Marty were to be canned for negativity? I can't, because I'm not from the area. But I would think that Bob and Walt wouldn't be looking for another way to piss off their dwindling fan base. How about fixing the product on the field before Marty retires? Then maybe he'll give the team some grudging respect

Now, if the team were to make the playoffs and Marty was still in "get off my lawn" mode, I would hope he'd get the axe like that loudmouth character from "Angels in the OF"

GAC
05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
Can you imagine the backlash in Redsland if Marty were to be canned for negativity? I can't, because I'm not from the area. But I would think that Bob and Walt wouldn't be looking for another way to piss off their dwindling fan base. How about fixing the product on the field before Marty retires? Then maybe he'll give the team some grudging respect

I've listened to Marty many a time give proper due when he sees it. I agree that the guy does seem to carry personal grudges against various players (Dunn), and that his philosophy at times on how the game is to be played is open for question and criticism. The guy is human.

Marty is like the rest of us in the sense he doesn't like what has happened to this organization/team over the last decade, wants to see the right changes made.

Yes, he can be blunt and very open in his criticism; but.... he's on our side IMO.

Put a product on the field that he can compliment and not have room to be so openly critical of.

Until they do, I like his candor, regardless of how brutal some perceive it to be.

Yachtzee
05-05-2008, 09:48 PM
I disagree. He's paid to call the game as he sees it, in his own way. He wouldn't have been here this long and especially up for HOF consideration if he just did "play by play". If he sees it one way and someone else thinks that's whining or hyperbole in any way, so be it. It's fine to have an opinion of him and/or his style, but let's be honest here, he's talking about the game just like we do (well, did) here at Redszone.

It's virtually the same thing.

He gets paid to tell us what's going on in the game. Even if he refrained from the negative comments, he still has a problem with telling us what is going on on the field. He treats it as if it's "The Marty Brenneman Show, featuring Reds Baseball" as opposed to "Reds Baseball, with Marty Brenneman calling the play." In addition to his rants at poor play, he'll spend any number of innings talking about everything under the sun but baseball. The worst are the lame inside jokes he has with his off-the-air cronies and the fake news stories he likes to make up to poke fun at the other broadcasters. If he wants to talk about that stuff between batters, fine. But while a batter is up, please just tell us what is going on on the field. Some of us like to hear that.

I stopped listening to Marty not just because of the negativity. I stopped because it was more of a Marty show than a Reds Baseball game. I can get more out of the game following it online.

lollipopcurve
05-05-2008, 10:16 PM
He's a magnet for misery.

Jocketty talked about the importance of being surrounded by positive people. I hope that somehow, some way, that puts Franchester on notice.

MWM
05-05-2008, 10:32 PM
The thing is the people who can't stand to listen to Marty anymore (I'm one) aren't asking for anything unreasonable. We don't want Marty to be someone else (i.e. people who complain because Dunn isn't Pujols). All we want is the Marty we got accustomed to hearing in his first 20 years. That's it. We don't want anything more than that. Just be the guy he was for the majority of his career. He was as good as just about anyone (sorry, he's no Scully or Harwell). That's not too much to ask. It's not like it's just blind hatred. I used to love Marty and listened to him almost every night. I miss that guy and wish he'd come back. Because the guy in the booth right now is too insufferable for me to listen to.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-05-2008, 10:34 PM
The thing is the people who can't stand to listen to Marty anymore (I'm one) aren't asking for anything unreasonable. We don't want Marty to be someone else (i.e. people who complain because Dunn isn't Pujols). All we want is the Marty we got accustomed to hearing in his first 20 years. That's it. We don't want anything more than that. Just be the guy he was for the majority of his career. He was as good as just about anyone (sorry, he's no Scully or Harwell). That's not too much to ask. It's not like it's just blind hatred. I used to love Marty and listened to him almost every night. I miss that guy and wish he'd come back. Because the guy in the booth right now is too insufferable for me to listen to.

I agree. This perfectly summarizes my feelings as well.

Yachtzee
05-05-2008, 10:55 PM
I agree. This perfectly summarizes my feelings as well.

Me too. I think its fair to say the Marty of old was a pleasure to listen to on a summer night. But those were the days when Marty spent the majority of his efforts painting a verbal picture of the play on the field. Today's Marty does very little painting and quite a bit of expressing his philosophy on the subject matter. When I want to experience an artist's masterpiece, I want to see him create magic through his medium. Unfortunately, listening to Marty is like going to view the artist's masterpiece and instead hearing him expound ad nauseam about what he doesn't like about the subject matter.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 11:47 PM
I disgaree with that statement my friend. I quit reading the game threads period because they often times turned into all out personal attacks. Maybe it was only 2 or 3 people every night, but it seemed to me to be 2 or 3 DIFFERENT people every night. Emotions run high, people get upset with losing, it happens to Marty, it happens to us.

We are basically agreeing on the gamethread.. there was 2-3 people that would cause a problem out of the relatively many participants..

I disagree about Marty. Tonight, I left the radio on a little bit after the game.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard Marty announcing tommorrow's pitching matchups, he sarcastically said "And for the Reds: Obviously the best pitcher in ML baseball history, Aaron Harang, with a 1-4 record"

That is not called for at all :thumbdown

In all seriousness, it seemed Marty got excited when the Cubs threatened tonight. It was almost as if he wanted them to lose.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 11:50 PM
Why is there a difference? The play of this team is horrendous whether you're watching it in the booth or on a message board. But because he's in that booth he is somehow suppose to overlook or "soft soap" what he is observing, and what an overwhelming majority of the fans have been saying for years?

Marty handled the losing 80's teams (that were far worse) with class.
Joe always handled losing seasons with class.

There's a difference between pointing out the teams weaknesses and constantly railing on them.

And yes, if I was on the radio, I'd tone down my criticisms.. there is a big difference. Marty is a professional. I'm just some anonymous fan on a message board. What I say means nothing..

Screwball
05-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard Marty announcing tommorrow's pitching matchups, he sarcastically said "And for the Reds: Obviously the best pitcher in ML baseball history, Aaron Harang, with a 1-4 record"


No. What he said was "The best pitcher in MLB history with a 1-4 record, Aaron Harang." He meant that Harang's a much better pitcher than those that typically have a Won/Loss record of 1-4, and he should have a better record this year.



In all seriousness, it seemed Marty got excited when the Cubs threatened tonight. It was almost as if he wanted them to lose.

I can't really argue definitively about a subjective matter like perceived intent or tone, so I'm going to say I couldn't disagree more, and leave it at that.

Wheelhouse
05-05-2008, 11:56 PM
This is the most ridiculous thread of the year...

Caseyfan21
05-06-2008, 12:01 AM
I certainly think Marty has been a little too bitter at times but give me his style over Grande/Welsh any day. I was watching the game with my girlfriend last week and she asked me "How come those announcers keep making so many excuses?" I just shook my head and laughed. I can usually only tolerate the Grande/Welsh excuse for every Reds mistake style for about a half game before I just have to go do something else or turn down the volume.

Now Marty has certainly gone off and acted above people before, but his bitterness towards the way the Reds are playing is certainly much closer to how I've been feeling about the Reds. I love turning to my dad or a friend when we're at a game and someone messes up big time and saying "Man, I wish I could hear what Marty is saying right now." The guy isn't afraid to go off on someone when they do something dumb and in today's overly nice culture it's refreshing. And the Reds have certainly been painful to watch. If I were on air being forced to watch and describe every game I probably would have been kicked off the air by now for using too many 4 letter words. :)

BCubb2003
05-06-2008, 12:16 AM
I like Marty more with Thom around. He seems to be a good influence. I wished Marty and Joe did more innings together toward the end.

Marty used to get on my nerves, but I think his negative bursts are more about the situation now rather than a grudge that carries on beyond all reason, like it used to.

Wheelhouse
05-06-2008, 12:47 AM
I certainly think Marty has been a little too bitter at times but give me his style over Grande/Welsh any day.


Will someone please, PLEASE tell me what it is Marty Brenneman has to be "bitter" about? He has been recognized as a Hall of Famer. The Reds have gone out and hired his son to work with him. They've also gotten a partner in Jeff Brantley who he seems to have a terrific rapport with. Marty gets nothing but praise and respect all around baseball. He is not, nor has he ever been a bitter man. Is he outraged at the downward path of the club? Yes. So am I. "Bitter" is another instance of Redszone grabbing on to a word because it sounds small or degrading--like "scrappy." It is a classic instance of demagoguery. It needs to just stop--if you disagree with Marty, say so, and say why. He'd afford you that respect. Cut the the diminutive "gotcha" language and grow up.

AtomicDumpling
05-06-2008, 12:57 AM
The thing is the people who can't stand to listen to Marty anymore (I'm one) aren't asking for anything unreasonable. We don't want Marty to be someone else (i.e. people who complain because Dunn isn't Pujols). All we want is the Marty we got accustomed to hearing in his first 20 years. That's it. We don't want anything more than that. Just be the guy he was for the majority of his career. He was as good as just about anyone (sorry, he's no Scully or Harwell). That's not too much to ask. It's not like it's just blind hatred. I used to love Marty and listened to him almost every night. I miss that guy and wish he'd come back. Because the guy in the booth right now is too insufferable for me to listen to.

This is exactly how I feel.

If I am in the car during a game I will turn on the radio to listen to the game. If Marty is calling that inning I just turn the radio off. It is that simple.

He is so annoying that I would rather miss the game than suffer through his ignorant diatribes.

I am sure there are many thousands of other people that feel the same way. Marty is reducing the team's fan base with his childish tantrums. He is hurting the team.

If I were Castellini I would tell him to go back and listen to some games from the 80's when the Reds sucked. He needs to remember how he and Joe made the game fun and enjoyable. If he can't recapture that magic then he should call it a career, go home and stay there.

KronoRed
05-06-2008, 12:58 AM
This is the most ridiculous thread of the year...

Not even close.

BCubb2003
05-06-2008, 01:15 AM
I also think it's interesting how conservative Cincinnati of all places got such a firebrand of an announcer.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 09:20 AM
No. What he said was "The best pitcher in MLB history with a 1-4 record, Aaron Harang." He meant that Harang's a much better pitcher than those that typically have a Won/Loss record of 1-4, and he should have a better record this year.

Maybe that's what he meant, but it sure didn't come across that way.
It came across as pretty sarcastic. Why wouldn't he just say "Aaron Harang, who has pitched much better than his 1-4 record indicates".

And I'm 100% sure he said it the way I typed it..Not the way you typed it (which has a different meaning)..

Unless he corrected himself afterwards. Maybe he realized how bad it sounded... I was walking in and out of the room, so maybe he corrected himself.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 09:23 AM
I also think it's interesting how conservative Cincinnati of all places got such a firebrand of an announcer.


He was there before anyone else got there :) as he likes to remind all the players.

jojo
05-06-2008, 09:36 AM
You have actually read Redzone before right? Read a game thread? This place has had major reoginzations of the forum and complete shut-down of the game thread because people can't act like adults.

But somehow on air they'd be pros? Please. What a complete load of horsecrap.

As if Marty trying to downplay the horrific level of play the Reds have produced thus far would somehow trick the fans into thinking they were watching good baseball. Funny how the boo's at the stadium are everybit as loud and bitter as Marty's comments after a particularly boneheaded play. It's almost as if the fans are smart enough to figure out the Reds stink all by themselves and woln't be fooled by a white-wash.

I'm just going to back out of this now, however, as I know most of RZ is anti-Marty. People with strong opinions hate others with strong opions. Once this thread has run it's corse it will be time for (1) Dunn strikes out too much (2) Dusty's line up stinks and (3) stats vs scouts threads. It's as predictable as the tide and taxes here in the land of "higher level" discussion.

People think of hell in terms of fire and brimstone. The reality is that hell is likely more akin to having to moderate what would have been game threads during the last 5 game losing streak.......

Reds fans seem to feed on their own and then turn on each other once the players' bones have been picked clean. I get it because of all of the losing and really a short supply of hope but I guess I don't get it. Maybe the BRM ruined baseball for this town in some respect.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-06-2008, 09:41 AM
People think of hell in terms of fire and brimstone. The reality is that hell is likely more akin to having to moderate what would have been game threads during the last 5 game losing streak.......

Reds fans seem to feed on their own and then turn on each other once the players' bones have been picked clean. I get it because of all of the losing and really a short supply of hope but I guess I don't get it. Maybe the BRM ruined baseball for this town in some respect.

I would bet most of the posters "eating their own" on the Redszone were not alive during the BRM era.

jojo
05-06-2008, 09:43 AM
I would bet most of the posters "eating their own" on the Redszone were not alive during the BRM era.

You might be right-I certainly don't keep score. That said, listening to sports radio around here, especially after games, I don't hear a lot of young fans calling in.....

I wonder though, if the Bengals had a tradition of winning, would Reds fans be more tolerant? In other words, is a lot of the vitriol aimed at the Reds when they're down really just a general frustration of local sports fans boiling to the surface?

I think fans with hope (i.e. can see light at the end of the tunnel) are much more tolerant.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 10:06 AM
I remember people complaining about the 1995 Reds team on the internet.. basically "we made the playoffs but got blown away by the Braves, so what's the point?".. Poor Reggie Sanders was crucified.

Now, a team like that seems like a dream season. :)

MWM
05-06-2008, 10:17 AM
I wonder though, if the Bengals had a tradition of winning, would Reds fans be more tolerant? In other words, is a lot of the vitriol aimed at the Reds when they're down really just a general frustration of local sports fans boiling to the surface?

I'm not sure, but I've lived in Cincy, San Diego, the Detroit area, and now Minneapolis. Nowhere have I ever experienced anything similar to Cincy fans treatment of their players.... the good ones that is. In my experience, Cincy is unique in that respect. I still don't get it. But the venom towards players that aren't pretty much perfect is staggering. And I know there are a lot of folks who will never agree with this, but I do believe Marty is a factor in this. I don't think it's all on him. Maybe he's just playing up to the culture that's already there, but I know he doesn't help.

redsmetz
05-06-2008, 10:20 AM
I remember people complaining about the 1995 Reds team on the internet.. basically "we made the playoffs but got blown away by the Braves, so what's the point?".. Poor Reggie Sanders was crucified.

Now, a team like that seems like a dream season. :)

What's so intriguing about that team is that tremendous loss to the Braves, you forget that they beat the Dodgers in the first round of play-offs.

flyer85
05-06-2008, 10:22 AM
Marty has morphed into a curmudgeon in recent years. Part of the job has to be for the announcers to "sell the product". Marty's "telling it like it is" has a decidedly negative tone and that certainly isn't the way to draw in new consumers.

Ltlabner
05-06-2008, 10:33 AM
I'm not sure, but I've lived in Cincy, San Diego, the Detroit area, and now Minneapolis. Nowhere have I ever experienced anything similar to Cincy fans treatment of their players.... the good ones that is. In my experience, Cincy is unique in that respect. I still don't get it. But the venom towards players that aren't pretty much perfect is staggering. And I know there are a lot of folks who will never agree with this, but I do believe Marty is a factor in this. I don't think it's all on him. Maybe he's just playing up to the culture that's already there, but I know he doesn't help.

To me, that's a far more interesting point (more interesting than Marty being evil anyway); that is Cincy's desire to crucify their sports teams, and especially the "star" tallents. It doesn't help that since the "heyday" of the 70's and early 80's the two main sports teams have generally sucked. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think we are as bad as Philly, but there's definatley an undercurrent of ire towards our teams.

What's weird is I don't remember Mario Soto getting beat up and he was surrounded by horrific teams. Yet Eric Davis got murdered. Ken Anderson wasn't subjected to constant harranging (that I recall), nor was Collingsworth however in general the Bengals are hammered (mostly rightfully so). Dunner gets brutalized, yet Harrang is the golden boy.

There seems to be a bizzare and always shifting standard. If you are percieved as being "hard working" you are mostly golden. If you are uber tallented but percieved as "lazy" forget it. You are toast. Cincy likes to pretend that it's the personifcation of "hard working midwestern" but that's generally a farce. It's almost a charicture that we've collectivley convinced ourselves is true.

Maybe the Germanic herritage has something to do with it. I know that's a very broad brush there, but we Germans are some serrious self-loathing types.

Maybe there's a bit of Pete Rose influence. Once you get burned by one beloved sports idol, people become generally more suspicius of the next ones.

As far as the bolded section goes, you may be suprised, but I agree with you. He's definatley part of the equation. I just balk when people say he's the *only* reason (or the main one, at least).

membengal
05-06-2008, 10:40 AM
Actually, Anderson was beat up pretty good locally. In fact, in the SB year in 1981, the fans cheered when he got hurt in Week 1 against Seattle when the Bengals were down big. Schonert led a rather improbable comeback in that game, and then there was decided uproar over Gregg's decision to start Anderson over Schonert in Game 2 of that year, against the Jets I believe...

A long way to say that Anderson took numerous shots as well...

MWM
05-06-2008, 10:53 AM
I don't think Marty is the only reason. I think part of it is inherent in the culture. But I do think he exacerbates it.

With Dunn and Harang, I think it's a couple of things. First, it's a matter of expectations. Dunn was supposed to be an annual MVP candidate along the lines of Albert Pujols. When he's not progressed to the level most expected him to (including myself here), he's been seen as a huge disappointment. I'm currently in town for a couple of weeks and went to the game last night for the first time in almost two years, and there are a lot of fans that just loathe Adam Dunn.

With Harang, he never had those kind of expectations. He was fairly unknown without a lot of hype. He's been a pleasant surprise, which changes the perceptions. Plus, the whole "blue collar workhorse" that you alluded to comes into play here. That's definitely a factor in Cincy.

Second, I think pitchers and hitters are different when it comes to the average fan. With pitchers, it's generally quite simple. Get the other team out without giving up a lot of runs and you're good. Get hit hard and give up runs and you're bad. There's not a lot of in between or it's not hard to understand how much a pitcher is contributing or sucking. I can't think of very many instances where there was a lot of polarization around a pitcher.

With hitters it’s completely different. It’s not as black and white. Different folks look at completely different things in evaluating hitters. Some folks think certain hitters have different jobs (i.e. “Dunn’s job is to drive in runs, not take walks”). Others think most hitters have the same primary job (i.e. avoid outs). There’s not much consensus on what makes a hitter good versus bad, except in extreme cases. Every one knows Albert Pujols is a great hitter. There’s no two ways about it. Everyone knows Corey Patterson is a terrible hitter. But for a lot of players, it’s not that obvious. It depends on personal ideologies as far as hitting goes. And once you throw defense into the mix, it complicates it even further.

BCubb2003
05-06-2008, 10:58 AM
I don't think Marty is the only reason. I think part of it is inherent in the culture. But I do think he exacerbates it.

With Dunn and Harang, I think it's a couple of things. First, it's a matter of expectations. Dunn was supposed to be an annual MVP candidate along the lines of Albert Pujols. When he's not progressed to the level most expected him to (including myself here), he's been seen as a huge disappointment. I'm currently in town for a couple of weeks and went to the game last night for the first time in almost two years, and there are a lot of fans that just loathe Adam Dunn.

With Harang, he never had those kind of expectations. He was fairly unknown without a lot of hype. He's been a pleasant surprise, which changes the perceptions. Plus, the whole "blue collar workhorse" that you alluded to comes into play here. That's definitely a factor in Cincy.

Second, I think pitchers and hitters are different when it comes to the average fan. With pitchers, it's generally quite simple. Get the other team out without giving up a lot of runs and you're good. Get hit hard and give up runs and you're bad. There's not a lot of in between or it's not hard to understand how much a pitcher is contributing or sucking. I can't think of very many instances where there was a lot of polarization around a pitcher.

With hitters it’s completely different. It’s not as black and white. Different folks look at completely different things in evaluating hitters. Some folks think certain hitters have different jobs (i.e. “Dunn’s job is to drive in runs, not take walks”). Others think most hitters have the same primary job (i.e. avoid outs). There’s not much consensus on what makes a hitter good versus bad, except in extreme cases. Every one knows Albert Pujols is a great hitter. There’s no two ways about it. Everyone knows Corey Patterson is a terrible hitter. But for a lot of players, it’s not that obvious. It depends on personal ideologies as far as hitting goes. And once you throw defense into the mix, it complicates it even further.

Yes, excellent post.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 11:30 AM
IWith Dunn and Harang, I think it's a couple of things. First, it's a matter of expectations.


I think as soon as a player here gets a big contract, he's automatically a huge target. How many times have Jr, Dunn, and Larkin's salaries been brought up to point out that they aren't "pulling their load".
Same was true with Eric Davis.

If Dunn and Jr leave after this season, I'm guessing the gunsights will start to be pointed at Phillips, Arroyo, Harang, and Cordero. Instead of talk radio saying "How can they pay Dunn XXX when he doesn't hit with RISP?" They will say "How can they pay Cordero to only pitch 60 innings/year" or they'll rail on Phillips.

When Bruce gets his big payday, people will rail on him, no matter how well he does. It's very predicatable.

Blimpie
05-06-2008, 12:49 PM
Marty has morphed into a curmudgeon in recent years. Part of the job has to be for the announcers to "sell the product". Marty's "telling it like it is" has a decidedly negative tone and that certainly isn't the way to draw in new consumers.Bingo.

Ltlabner
05-06-2008, 02:19 PM
With Dunn and Harang, I think it's a couple of things. First, it's a matter of expectations. Dunn was supposed to be an annual MVP candidate along the lines of Albert Pujols. When he's not progressed to the level most expected him to (including myself here), he's been seen as a huge disappointment. I'm currently in town for a couple of weeks and went to the game last night for the first time in almost two years, and there are a lot of fans that just loathe Adam Dunn.

With Harang, he never had those kind of expectations. He was fairly unknown without a lot of hype. He's been a pleasant surprise, which changes the perceptions. Plus, the whole "blue collar workhorse" that you alluded to comes into play here. That's definitely a factor in Cincy.




There's a lot to be said for the expectations angle. Since the Reds have mostly stunk since 1977 we've become quite acustomed to the "next big thing" that is going to save the franchise. How often has the next tallented kid in AA been touted as a savior? Heck, just in the past few years Larson, Dunn, Kearns, Bailey and apparently now Cueto were going to single handled save the franchise. The fans, desperate for any sign of hope then latches onto the idea that if they "just call up player X" then all will be well. Obviously realality sets in and then fans are disapointed.

Heck, fans are so programed to think this way that even relatively minor things like changing a guy's position in the batting order can be positioned as the way to get things back on track. If a pitcher is struggling its likely because he's "tippping his pitches" or some other bunk. We have one game where the offense explodes and it's "what they needed to build on" instead of just a fluke occurance.

And I think Redread has a valid point about the contract amount and when said player suddenly becomes a villian. It happens in all cities, however, so that's not just a Cincy thing. But it does seem to offend the midwestern senses (whatever the heck those are) that grown men are paid $13,000,000 to "play a game". That said grown men are paid $3,000,000 to play a game is somehow acceptable is all rather silly.

bucksfan2
05-06-2008, 03:06 PM
I hate to say it but your average Cincinnati baseball fan is pretty ignorant. They are constantly looking for the next Pete Rose. The admire Pete Rose. They think Pete Rose should be in the HOF. What they fail to belive is the true character of one Pete Rose. Every year a player comes along who shows hustle, grit, determination and Cincinnati fans fall in love with them. I get tired of hearing how Ryan Freel is a good guy. Lets overlook that he had two arrests within a few months span a couple of years ago. Lets over look that the reason you see Freel diving for so many balls in the outfield is because he got a horriable read off the ball.

Marty himself isn't the problem it is the casual fan's belief that everything Marty says is 100% correct. Look I have met Marty and you cant meet a nice guy. But all that aside Marty has made some asinine comments that too many people believe as truth. When Marty said that Norris Hopper is a better optoin than Dunn you saw a sea change in the way people thought of Dunn. Not to mention this season that Hopper can't hit the ball out of the infield. Marty loves to ride the guys with the talent but loves the guys who are good guys.

Another problem with Reds fans is the Sean Casey factor. I don't care how good of a guy he is. I want to win baseball games. I am sick and tired of the fan favorites being held onto for too long. I would rather win with jerks than lose with "good guys". Im glad that Casey gave back to the community but so do Cordero and Harang and countless other reds players. Just because Casey became the poster child for giving back doesn't mean he is the only one.

Lastly the media in this town is awful. It isn't manditory but I would love to see an explayer host a daily show. The local beat writers are so comfortable in their job that they have failed to adapt with the changing nature of baseball. Too much of a story is aready writen based upon the writers treatment by a particular athlete. I will always say this. Give me a team of 25 law abiding a-holes who wins and I will be just happy.

Matt700wlw
05-06-2008, 03:09 PM
Bummer...Marty wants to see a winner like the rest of us.

Matt700wlw
05-06-2008, 03:11 PM
Well, there is a big difference. He gets paid to give us a play-by-play of the game as it occurs on the field, something he's been failing to do for years now. Does that count as "lack of hustle" or "not playing the game the right way?"

I had last night's game on the radio (no visual, not working...just listening as a fan) and I had no problem following the game based on Marty "failing to give PBP"

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

StillFunkyB
05-06-2008, 03:14 PM
It was so discombobulating that I plan to blame Brennaman when the new shelves come crashing down on the Volvo next winter.

Someone needs to tell him he has it all wrong....

Blame Bob Boone

lollipopcurve
05-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Bummer...Marty wants to see a winner like the rest of us.

No, Marty wants a winner now, this minute, or he's going to make a mess of his high chair and scream as loud as he can.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 03:30 PM
Lastly the media in this town is awful. It isn't manditory but I would love to see an explayer host a daily show.


Last night one of Paul Daughtery's topics on the post game show was encouraging people to call in and make the case why it's better to go see the Cyclones (minor league hockey) as opposed to the Reds. This was between the normal sessions of blaming Jr and Dunn for all the team's problems, and a lame attempt to stir the pot to get Cubs fans to call in.

One would've never guessed that the Reds actually won last night based on the postgame.

dabvu2498
05-06-2008, 03:39 PM
So why do you listen?

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 03:45 PM
So why do you listen?


So I know what happens during the game.. I wish I had a better option, but the radio lets me get things done around the house while I keep up with the Reds. I do enjoy it more when Brantley is on solo.

My only other option is to completely bag the Reds and start listening to the Indians, which I've considered... Or perhaps get XM radio so I only get Marty half the time.. I don't have time to sit in front of the PC all night and watch the ESPN gametracker..

EDIT: If you meant the postgame show, usually the radio goes off as soon as the last out is recorded. Last night I left the radio on because I was in the middle of putting polyeurthane on something..The postgame show blows and I usually avoid it.

bucksfan
05-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Listening to baseball is supposed to be fun -- even when they are losing. It is not fun anymore and it is largely Marty's fault.

This part I can really relate to. I won't say it's all Marty's fault because the whole "losing 5 games in a row" thing can shoulder some blame, but I certainly prefer listening to a ballgame to be an enjoyable experience, win or lose. FOr many years it was that for me. I am an unabashed fan of Joe Nuxhall and always have been, but I always thought Marty was really good too. I thought they complimented each other well and absolutely appreciated the skill Marty brings to the broadcast.

I don't expect a rose-colored glasses view of all the games, but I also don't want personal rants and excessive negatism of the team I have always rooted for. Baseball is a business I know, but I don't want it announced like a business, with every single failing to hit every single KPI to be broadcast and harped on endlessly. Admittedly, I do prefer a bit of a homer slant in the broadcast for sure, but really nothing more than what we had a few years agao with M&J in the booth. I can still certainly glean enjoyment out of some of the broadcasts (I try very hard to as listening to baseball on the radio has been a staple in most of my 42 years), even with the losing. But I think Marty now is making it a too hard to do so sometimes.

SMcGavin
05-06-2008, 06:06 PM
With Dunn and Harang, I think it's a couple of things. First, it's a matter of expectations. Dunn was supposed to be an annual MVP candidate along the lines of Albert Pujols. When he's not progressed to the level most expected him to (including myself here), he's been seen as a huge disappointment. I'm currently in town for a couple of weeks and went to the game last night for the first time in almost two years, and there are a lot of fans that just loathe Adam Dunn.


I think this is a lot of it. I remember reading an ESPN.com article that asked baseball GMs to name any player 25 and under that they would take to start a franchise. The compiled list started with Alex Rodriguez at #1, and Adam Dunn was #2. He ended up being really good, but to a lot of people he still never lived up to expectations. If Jay Bruce ends up having a career similar to that of Dunn, I think he will get the same flak.

GAC
05-06-2008, 07:56 PM
Maybe that's what he meant, but it sure didn't come across that way.
It came across as pretty sarcastic. Why wouldn't he just say "Aaron Harang, who has pitched much better than his 1-4 record indicates".

And I'm 100% sure he said it the way I typed it..Not the way you typed it (which has a different meaning)..

Unless he corrected himself afterwards. Maybe he realized how bad it sounded... I was walking in and out of the room, so maybe he corrected himself.

I heard it, and there was no sarcastic tone to it at all IMO. In announcing the matchups for the next day he said Zambrano will be facing Aaron Harang "the best 1-4 pitcher in major league history." He was definitely implying that Harang has been a tough luck pitcher so far this year who hasn't got the run support. And what he said was right on.

vaticanplum
05-06-2008, 09:23 PM
Will someone please, PLEASE tell me what it is Marty Brenneman has to be "bitter" about? He has been recognized as a Hall of Famer. The Reds have gone out and hired his son to work with him. They've also gotten a partner in Jeff Brantley who he seems to have a terrific rapport with. Marty gets nothing but praise and respect all around baseball. He is not, nor has he ever been a bitter man. Is he outraged at the downward path of the club? Yes. So am I. "Bitter" is another instance of Redszone grabbing on to a word because it sounds small or degrading--like "scrappy." It is a classic instance of demagoguery. It needs to just stop--if you disagree with Marty, say so, and say why. He'd afford you that respect. Cut the the diminutive "gotcha" language and grow up.

Apart from the personal sideswipes you make, that's an excellent question. What reason DOES Marty have to be bitter? You tell me, because I can't think of a one. And I listen to him probably more than most, and I do read him as bitter, and it's not my catch phrase way of degrading him, thank you. I think he's an excellent announcer in many respects, but the tone of his calling can be downright vile -- unhappy, disgusted, and yes, bitter. And you're right, he's got a great job and his son is in the booth with him and he's a Hall of Famer etc. And yet he sounds downright personally affronted that his team has become this bad.

Hence my major problem with Brennaman's calling these days: his lack of objectivity. I am personally affronted that this team is so bad, yes. I've given them a lot of my time and effort and money and I expect a better return. But if I'm a journalist, it is my JOB not to bring that personal bitterness to the table. I have to put it aside to objectively analyze, in this case, a baseball game. And as others have stated, Marty's facts are fewer and farther between. His knowledge of a lot currently going on in the game is slipping. His actual game calling is spotty -- it varies from game to game and sometimes from inning to inning. If my baseball team is bad, I want to hear why, and by that I mean facts: wide-ranging statistics explaining the reasons for the batting order, inside knowledge of what the hitting coach is doing to improve batting average. Telling me over and over and over again that the Reds aren't playing fundamental baseball doesn't really help me understand, particularly when "fundamental" is never really defined. He should call each and every game like he's calling it to an audience that has never heard a baseball game in their lives. Period.

A defense I hear a lot in Marty's favor is "he tells it like it is". Ok, I'll tell it like it is: this is a bad baseball team. Is that enough? Couldn't any person who's watched the Reds this season, in that sense, tell it like it is? Baseball announcing is a tough, tough job, and to do it well you don't just tell it like it is. You tell it like it is, and why it is, and what is being done to make it not like it is, and what the exceptions are in its state of is-ness, and why other teams are the way the are, and most of all you have to make sure that you're telling us about the baseball game the way it is, not your personal indignation at how bad it is over. and over. and over. No one is asking him to be a homer. But I would like him to be objective. I'd call him on it just the same if he were overly optimistic and giddy over this team. But I hear very little objectivity in his calling anymore. It's the same old every night, how terrible this team is and how it's never getting better, with very little enlightenment as to why this is or how it can improve.

And yes, it comes across as bitter to me. There's the journalism critic in me that says that anything coming across as such a strong and obvioius personal opinion automatically squelches objectivity, but there's also my own personal taste that I don't happen to find that much fun to listen to. Baseball is my diversion, for crying out loud, as it is for pretty much 99.99% of the people Marty's calling for. I could tune into the broadcast of any games the Reds were losing and enjoy it and learn a lot more if the guy calling the game didn't spend most of his time just letting off steam. Ron Santo, unlike Marty, is inherently a pretty terrible baseball announcer, but he's never more fun to listen to than when the Cubs are losing (hold all Cubs jokes, please). You sense that no matter what he's watching on the field, he'd still rather be watching that field than doing anything else on the planet. That's pretty much how I feel about baseball, or there's no way in hell I'd still be watching this team. You can be disgusted with the choices of your team and still derive great joy from the game. Marty always sounds like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world than calling the game, like he needs a good long vacation. You can be as critical as you want and not sound like that (objectivity helps). And yes, that's my opinion and taste. Call me crazy: spending three hours listening to a game I love railed on and torn apart by someone who sounds like he hates it is not my favorite way to spend my time.

Yachtzee
05-06-2008, 11:08 PM
Apart from the personal sideswipes you make, that's an excellent question. What reason DOES Marty have to be bitter? You tell me, because I can't think of a one. And I listen to him probably more than most, and I do read him as bitter, and it's not my catch phrase way of degrading him, thank you. I think he's an excellent announcer in many respects, but the tone of his calling can be downright vile -- unhappy, disgusted, and yes, bitter. And you're right, he's got a great job and his son is in the booth with him and he's a Hall of Famer etc. And yet he sounds downright personally affronted that his team has become this bad.

Hence my major problem with Brennaman's calling these days: his lack of objectivity. I am personally affronted that this team is so bad, yes. I've given them a lot of my time and effort and money and I expect a better return. But if I'm a journalist, it is my JOB not to bring that personal bitterness to the table. I have to put it aside to objectively analyze, in this case, a baseball game. And as others have stated, Marty's facts are fewer and farther between. His knowledge of a lot currently going on in the game is slipping. His actual game calling is spotty -- it varies from game to game and sometimes from inning to inning. If my baseball team is bad, I want to hear why, and by that I mean facts: wide-ranging statistics explaining the reasons for the batting order, inside knowledge of what the hitting coach is doing to improve batting average. Telling me over and over and over again that the Reds aren't playing fundamental baseball doesn't really help me understand, particularly when "fundamental" is never really defined. He should call each and every game like he's calling it to an audience that has never heard a baseball game in their lives. Period.

A defense I hear a lot in Marty's favor is "he tells it like it is". Ok, I'll tell it like it is: this is a bad baseball team. Is that enough? Couldn't any person who's watched the Reds this season, in that sense, tell it like it is? Baseball announcing is a tough, tough job, and to do it well you don't just tell it like it is. You tell it like it is, and why it is, and what is being done to make it not like it is, and what the exceptions are in its state of is-ness, and why other teams are the way the are, and most of all you have to make sure that you're telling us about the baseball game the way it is, not your personal indignation at how bad it is over. and over. and over. No one is asking him to be a homer. But I would like him to be objective. I'd call him on it just the same if he were overly optimistic and giddy over this team. But I hear very little objectivity in his calling anymore. It's the same old every night, how terrible this team is and how it's never getting better, with very little enlightenment as to why this is or how it can improve.

And yes, it comes across as bitter to me. There's the journalism critic in me that says that anything coming across as such a strong and obvioius personal opinion automatically squelches objectivity, but there's also my own personal taste that I don't happen to find that much fun to listen to. Baseball is my diversion, for crying out loud, as it is for pretty much 99.99% of the people Marty's calling for. I could tune into the broadcast of any games the Reds were losing and enjoy it and learn a lot more if the guy calling the game didn't spend most of his time just letting off steam. Ron Santo, unlike Marty, is inherently a pretty terrible baseball announcer, but he's never more fun to listen to than when the Cubs are losing (hold all Cubs jokes, please). You sense that no matter what he's watching on the field, he'd still rather be watching that field than doing anything else on the planet. That's pretty much how I feel about baseball, or there's no way in hell I'd still be watching this team. You can be disgusted with the choices of your team and still derive great joy from the game. Marty always sounds like he'd rather be anywhere else in the world than calling the game, like he needs a good long vacation. You can be as critical as you want and not sound like that (objectivity helps). And yes, that's my opinion and taste. Call me crazy: spending three hours listening to a game I love railed on and torn apart by someone who sounds like he hates it is not my favorite way to spend my time.

I think you've said it better than I could. A sign that Marty doesn't enjoy baseball anymore. . . the fact that he hates extra inning games because they mess with his golf game the next day. I don't think it matters whether the Reds are bad or good, he complains if the game goes longer than he feels it should. If he were a true "fan," as they say, he should be excited that "his" team is still in the game trying to scratch out a win.

Over the years, I've tried to offer constructive criticism of Marty. Many people who have issues with the way Marty calls a game have tried to be constructive. But these threads usually devolve into those who support him trying to discount anything anyone says against Mr. Brennaman and those who don't like his current performance trying to justify a layperson's right to criticize. Just because someone may not like his performance or may find fault with him doesn't mean that that person hates him as a person. It just means they don't agree with the form or substance of his statements toward the team. I don't like Marty's excessively negative attitude so I don't listen. Doesn't mean I necessarily like George Grande's sunshine, puppies, and Jim Edmonds style or want a robot who just drones on about the score and number of outs either. One can be very objective and provide a colorful description of even the most mundane T-ball game, if they love what they do. Based on his approach to Reds baseball, I question whether Marty truly loves what he does anymore. If not, there are plenty of hungry young broadcasters with a love of the game who would be more than happy to have the opportunity. Maybe it's time to look for the next Marty, or Vin Scully or Jack Brickhouse or Mel Allen.

Always Red
05-07-2008, 07:07 AM
I think you've said it better than I could. A sign that Marty doesn't enjoy baseball anymore. . . the fact that he hates extra inning games because they mess with his golf game the next day. I don't think it matters whether the Reds are bad or good, he complains if the game goes longer than he feels it should. If he were a true "fan," as they say, he should be excited that "his" team is still in the game trying to scratch out a win.

Over the years, I've tried to offer constructive criticism of Marty. Many people who have issues with the way Marty calls a game have tried to be constructive. But these threads usually devolve into those who support him trying to discount anything anyone says against Mr. Brennaman and those who don't like his current performance trying to justify a layperson's right to criticize. Just because someone may not like his performance or may find fault with him doesn't mean that that person hates him as a person. It just means they don't agree with the form or substance of his statements toward the team. I don't like Marty's excessively negative attitude so I don't listen. Doesn't mean I necessarily like George Grande's sunshine, puppies, and Jim Edmonds style or want a robot who just drones on about the score and number of outs either. One can be very objective and provide a colorful description of even the most mundane T-ball game, if they love what they do. Based on his approach to Reds baseball, I question whether Marty truly loves what he does anymore. If not, there are plenty of hungry young broadcasters with a love of the game who would be more than happy to have the opportunity. Maybe it's time to look for the next Marty, or Vin Scully or Jack Brickhouse or Mel Allen.

good post; and vp's before it as well. Marty is just not much into it anymore, it seems. My idea of a summer's evening in heaven is a warm, beautiful night, and Marty and Joe on the radio- so I have been a big fan, for a very long time.

Maybe some of Marty's attitude (other than bad baseball) is the sickness and passing of his good friend and sidekick Joe Nuxhall? I'm willing to give Marty the benefit of the doubt on that. Regardless- Marty is not the same guy he was. He has lost some of his professionalism, and it seems to have happened mostly after his election to the Hall of Fame.

As far as bringing in the next generation- that ship sailed when the Reds brought in Thom. I like Thom, generally, but as long as Thom is here, Marty will be here, too.

REDREAD
05-07-2008, 12:41 PM
I heard it, and there was no sarcastic tone to it at all IMO. In announcing the matchups for the next day he said Zambrano will be facing Aaron Harang "the best 1-4 pitcher in major league history." He was definitely implying that Harang has been a tough luck pitcher so far this year who hasn't got the run support. And what he said was right on.

Again, you are changing the order of the words. It is different when you say it that way. He said it as I quoted it.. Maybe he later retracted it or clarified it, but I quoted how he said it as soon as the game ended.

But you can not deny that Marty continually makes sarcastic remarks like that. In the same game, there were men on base, Dunn at the plate. Brantley said something like "Well, it would be great to get a moon shot here".. Marty quickly snapped "How about just a basehit ..."

It wears on you when the entire game is full of Marty taking every chance to cut the team down. In game 1 of the Cub's series, Marty was relishing the fact that the Reds might blow the game. He got real excited when he it looked like Derrick Lee would get a chance with the game on the line. He got excited announcing as Cordero fell apart...

Screwball
05-07-2008, 12:58 PM
It wears on you when the entire game is full of Marty taking every chance to cut the team down. In game 1 of the Cub's series, Marty was relishing the fact that the Reds might blow the game. He got real excited when he it looked like Derrick Lee would get a chance with the game on the line. He got excited announcing as Cordero fell apart...

Maybe you would rather he be monotonous and/or dull, but I sure enjoyed him getting excited during an exciting part of the game.

And Marty must've clarified his statement about Harang, because at one point he definitely said it how I stated. Though, after thinking about it, I can see how someone might take what he said as a shot at Harang.

AtomicDumpling
05-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Maybe you would rather he be monotonous and/or dull, but I sure enjoyed him getting excited during an exciting part of the game.

I felt like he was hoping the Cubs would take the lead so he could throw another tantrum. His "excitement" was very sarcastic and sour.

Getting excited hoping the Reds succeed is good.

Getting excited hoping the Reds fail is not good.

I don't really care what he says anymore because I don't listen to him anymore. I have had enough. I quit listening to him last year. I did happen to catch that part of the broadcast though.

I watch on TV or follow it on Gametracker.

flyer85
05-07-2008, 01:17 PM
I watch on TV or follow it on Gametracker.that's what I do when I'm at work and can't watch. I don't listen(I could) instead I follow on gametracker ... I tuned out the broadcasts almost entirely a couple of years ago.

REDREAD
05-07-2008, 02:27 PM
I felt like he was hoping the Cubs would take the lead so he could throw another tantrum. His "excitement" was very sarcastic and sour.

Getting excited hoping the Reds succeed is good.

Getting excited hoping the Reds fail is not good.

.

That was my take too. Marty thought he smelled another Reds' collapse and seemed to relish in it. That's what was causing his excitement. He was hoping he'd be able to say the Reds lost the 6th game in a row, and they are pathetic because the Cubs "gave" them 5 unearned runs, etc, etc.

WVRedsFan
05-07-2008, 04:11 PM
That was my take too. Marty thought he smelled another Reds' collapse and seemed to relish in it. That's what was causing his excitement. He was hoping he'd be able to say the Reds lost the 6th game in a row, and they are pathetic because the Cubs "gave" them 5 unearned runs, etc, etc.


Hogwash!

Marty's a fan and he knows as well as you and I that 9 runs today and no runs yesterday means a win and a loss. It befuddles the mind that this team can score 9 so effortlessly one day and 0 the next. It's perplexing to many of us, marty included.

Ltlabner
05-07-2008, 04:16 PM
Love how people are ascribing what they *think* Marty is thinking and then reporting it as fact. Good times.

The people who don't care for Marty will interprete nearly anything he says as bitter and mean. The people who like Marty will likely interpreate most of what he says as just that, what he said and nothing more. No big shock there.

It was funny last night, however, for all those who complain that they get lost when Marty is calling the game and they just can't possibly keep up. Flipped on the radio last night and within a minute I knew the score, what inning it was, who was at bat, what the count was and who was on base.

Maybe Marty just did that because he hates the Reds.

WVRedsFan
05-07-2008, 04:18 PM
Love how people are ascribing what they *think* Marty is thinking and then reporting it as fact. Good times.

The people who don't care for Marty will interprete nearly anything he says as bitter and mean. The people who like Marty will likely interpreate most of what he says as just that, what he said and nothing more. No big shock there.

It was funny last night, however, for all those who complain that they get lost when Marty is calling the game and they just can't possibly keep up. Flipped on the radio last night and within a minute I knew the score, what inning it was, who was at bat, what the count was and who was on base.

Maybe Marty just did that because he hates the Reds.

Excellent post and as someone else said, "spot on."

Screwball
05-07-2008, 05:24 PM
It was funny last night, however, for all those who complain that they get lost when Marty is calling the game and they just can't possibly keep up. Flipped on the radio last night and within a minute I knew the score, what inning it was, who was at bat, what the count was and who was on base.


Yep. I actually disagree with Marty often and don't care much for the times he's over-critical of players, but I still think he does an excellent play-by-play. I've been out of town the last couple nights so I had to listen to the game, yet found it very enjoyable - especially since all to often I've been forced to deal with Grande's PBP/description of the game (seriously, George, not every fly ball is a "bloop").