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View Full Version : Honestly, why not listen to offers for Harang/Cordero?



Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:00 PM
Well, you if were waiting for your first over-the-top, the sky-is-falling, we-need-to-trade everyone thread, here it is! :)

But hear me out first.

2008 is all but lost. I've gone from really believing in this team in the spring to having no faith at all. I have ZERO confidence that we can bounce back from this 12-20 start and contend. ZERO.

So, the ONLY thing I care about at this point is the future of the club. And for the first time in long time, I think we actually have at least a handful of guys worth watching down the road.

Here's how I look at it:

List of guys I would NOT trade and would try to build around:

--Volquez
--Cueto
--Bruce
--Votto
--Bailey
--Phillips (having a terrible year, but still a guy that can be useful in the future)
--Keppinger (it may seem odd to have him on a "no trade" list, but I don't think he has a ton of value on the market, but DOES have value on the field)

List of guys I would trade for a bag of baseballs:

--Arroyo (anyone that wants his salary can have him)
--Griffey (see above-- plus, I'd like to see Jr. play for a contender)
--Hatteberg (I'll take whatever)
--Any of our catchers
--Freel (time has come to say goodbye)

The problem with the guys listed directly above is that pretty much all fans would like to see them traded, yet no team in their right mind is going to give up anything of substance for them (maybe Junior, but I'm not even sure about him). So, I'd trade each of them with the idea to simply get rid of them rather than get a certain return for them. If you stumble into a prospect, then great. If not, no worries.

List of guys I would definitely trade, but not give away:

--Dunn
--Edwin

With his performace this year, I'd lean towards keeping EE, but I'm certainly not opposed to listening if there is interest. As for Dunn, it just seems like time. I really don't see him as a cornerstone of this franchise, and I'm not willing to pony up to keep him. It would be somewhat tough to let him go, but if we got a decent return, I could live with it.

Now, if we REALLY want to build for the future, I think we dangle these two guys:

--Harang
--Cordero

Both of these players are in their prime right now and are pitching VERY well. Both have SERIOUS market value. Both could REALLY make certain conteding teams salivate. Harang could easily be the most desireable player on the trade market if we made him available. Cordero's contract may turn off a few teams, but clubs start getting a tad desperate as the season moves on.

I really like both of these guys, but I have a really strong feeling that they may both be past their optimum peak by the team the Reds are ready to contend.

I can see it now....everything comes together in 2010, and Harang takes a nosedive.

Like I mentioned above, we have a decent core of young players to build on....

I am not going to name names, but imagine this:

I bet we could get a Volquez-type pitching prospect, a Votto-type offensive player, and a Keppinger-type prospect for Harang. Let's say we can land a #3 starter prospect for Cordero.

Now, you take the core add ANOTHER Volquez, ANOTHER Votto, ANOTHER Keppinger, and a legit 3rd starter....you have just sped up the process of rebuilding.

dougdirt
05-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I would listen to offers on Cordero. No way do I trade an ACE in Harang that I have under control for more than the next 4 months.

Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:05 PM
I would listen to offers on Cordero. No way do I trade an ACE in Harang that I have under control for more than the next 4 months.

Not much sense in having an ACE if the rest of the team around him stinks. I say take the ACE and try to parlay it into fortifying and rounding out the roster.

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 05:06 PM
Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/cincinnati-reds_24.html

Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:08 PM
Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/cincinnati-reds_24.html


I can't imagine he's be opposed to going somewhere else, as long as his paychecks stayed the same.

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 05:09 PM
I can't imagine he's be opposed to going somewhere else, as long as his paychecks stayed the same.

Do you want to move, as long as your paycheck stays the same?

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 05:10 PM
BTW--If I'm moving Harang, I'm moving Phillips too...

Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:11 PM
Do you want to move, as long as your paycheck stays the same?

Heck Yeah, I'd move if it meant I was able to do my job at a much higher level than I was currently doing it.

Baseball players have a limited lifespan...a guy like Cordero is in his final stages of productivity-- if has a competitive bone in his body, I'm sure he'd like to be closing games for a team that could go to the World Series-- rather than for a team that is going to win 70 games.

dougdirt
05-05-2008, 05:12 PM
Not much sense in having an ACE if the rest of the team around him stinks. I say take the ACE and try to parlay it into fortifying and rounding out the roster.

Keep the ace and hope what else you move can turn into the pieces to add to your ace to lead to some winning.

Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:13 PM
BTW--If I'm moving Harang, I'm moving Phillips too...

I'm really not against moving BP, I just don't think it's too realistic. I think Harang can net you franchise-changing type of prosepcts. Not sure Phillips can do that. And BP should at least be a steady 2B for the next several years. So, sure if someone made a great offer, I'd take it, but I just don't see that happening.

Edskin
05-05-2008, 05:15 PM
Keep the ace and hope what else you move can turn into the pieces to add to your ace to lead to some winning.

I'm certainly not going to blast anyone for taking that approach. But I'm not sure the "what else you move" is going to turn into much. The Ace, on the other hand, could very well command a King's Ransom.

jojo
05-05-2008, 05:22 PM
Cordero has a full no-trade clause through 2009. Helpfull linky:

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/cincinnati-reds_24.html

He can still be moved (he can waive his rights)-he just plays a bigger influence in the trade negotiations.

That said, the Reds already overpaid significantly making it more difficult to find a team willing to go the extra mile to compensate Cordero for waiving his rights.

Danny Serafini
05-05-2008, 05:30 PM
I really have no interest in trading Harang for a few prospects who, if everything works out and the stars all align, might develop into someone nearly as good as Harang. That's not progress.

PuffyPig
05-05-2008, 05:31 PM
If our starting pitching (Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Arroyo etc.) actually gets it going at some time over the next few years, we can likely have a contender. It's 10 times easier to find postion players than great starters.

For that reason, I am against trading Harang, unless it was like a Chamberlain, Kennedy and Hughes offer from the Yankees. And Kennedy and Highes have taken their lumps recently.

Will M
05-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Lets play a game. We are a very good team and need another starter. Not just a #3/4 but a #1 to put us in reach of a world series trophy.
The team with Harang asks for our best four prospects ( ie Bruce, Bailey & two other guys rated as 'B+' ). Would you do it?
This is the type of return I would need to trade Harang.
To do it a team would have to be stacked with prospects.

P.S. - If what we were offered for Harang was in any way similar to what the As got for Haren I'd pass.

WMR
05-05-2008, 05:45 PM
I'd be trying to move Phillips well before Harang.

Also: I'm not sure any team would be capable and/or willing to offer up the bounty that I would require for Harang. Like someone else posted, I'd want their four best prospects, and it'd need to be an organization that actually has good/great prospects, not dreck.

fearofpopvol1
05-05-2008, 05:52 PM
The Reds should listen to offers from any team. Anything that can make the Reds better is something they should listen to and I suspect Jocketty has that philosophy. With that said, Harang is the last person I'd want to move. His contract is very reasonable and he's under control for a while. It would need to be a "can't refuse" kind of offer to move him. It's just not a good idea to trade great pitching for unproven pitching, especially starters.

RedsManRick
05-05-2008, 05:55 PM
I listen to offers for anybody -- but bottom line is that it's really hard to improve your team by trading your best players.

REDREAD
05-05-2008, 07:15 PM
Heck Yeah, I'd move if it meant I was able to do my job at a much higher level than I was currently doing it.

Baseball players have a limited lifespan...a guy like Cordero is in his final stages of productivity-- if has a competitive bone in his body, I'm sure he'd like to be closing games for a team that could go to the World Series-- rather than for a team that is going to win 70 games.

If Cordero's priority was winning, he would've never signed with the Reds in the first place. The fact that he negotiated a no trade clause means that someone is going to have to cough up more dough for us to trade him.
Considering the amount of money Cordero recieved, I don't think he has that much value. Now, in 2010 when he only has 2 years left, he's less of a long term risk and I think he will have more value then (if still healthy and producing).

Spring~Fields
05-05-2008, 07:23 PM
I listen to offers for anybody -- but bottom line is that it's really hard to improve your team by trading your best players.

Listening to good offers for anyone makes sense, and the trade ideas are enterprising also, of course with the assumption of a good outcome.

dfs
05-05-2008, 07:27 PM
Just fwiw, I think there is a difference between actively soliciting offers and listening to offers. For the last year and a half the reds should have been listening to offers for everybody on the 40 man roster. They don't have to take those offers.

Do I listen to offers for Harang and Cordero? sure.

Do I actively shop those guys? no.

Falls City Beer
05-05-2008, 07:31 PM
The Harang contention window is closed, as far as I'm concerned. This team won't be contending until after his current contract is up. Now if the belief is that he'll be re-signable at that point for similar dollars, okay, but I think Harang's going to get much bigger money in his next contract, prohibitive dollars to the Reds in his age 30 + seasons. It's time to move him, Cordero, Arroyo, if he gets healthy.

They missed a window; time to set up a new contention timeframe. I'd absolutely actively shop Harang and Cordero.

kaldaniels
05-05-2008, 07:36 PM
The Harang contention window is closed, as far as I'm concerned. This team won't be contending until after his current contract is up. Now if the belief is that he'll be re-signable at that point for similar dollars, okay, but I think Harang's going to get much bigger money in his next contract, prohibitive dollars to the Reds in his age 30 + seasons. It's time to move him, Cordero, Arroyo, if he gets healthy.

They missed a window; time to set up a new contention timeframe. I'd absolutely actively shop Harang and Cordero.

The Reds have an option year on Harang for 2011. So you are saying the Reds have no chance to contend till 2012? That seems awfully dire.

Falls City Beer
05-05-2008, 07:38 PM
The Reds have an option year on Harang for 2011. So you are saying the Reds have no chance to contend till 2012? That seems awfully dire.

2011 at the earliest. Krivsky was on a six or seven year plan--Jocketty might be able to speed it up by one season. But he'll not likely be able to speed it up without first dealing Harang.

Aronchis
05-05-2008, 07:58 PM
If the Reds were to get a young, good RH bat and a top pitching prospect for Harang, it would be hard to say no. Other than that, I would pass.

*BaseClogger*
05-05-2008, 11:05 PM
I'm dreaming, but what about a deal with the Dodgers based around Kemp and Kershaw?

Falls City Beer
05-05-2008, 11:09 PM
I'm dreaming, but what about a deal with the Dodgers based around Kemp and Kershaw?

For Harang?

They'd never bite. Though they should.

PuffyPig
05-05-2008, 11:12 PM
For Harang?

They'd never bite. Though they should.


Of course they should. And they might.

If Kershaw turned into Harang they'd be tickled pink. Giving up Kemp to ensure that he would be a small proce to pay.

Falls City Beer
05-05-2008, 11:13 PM
Of course they should. And they might.

If Kershaw turned into Harang they'd be tickled pink. Giving up Kemp to ensure that he would be a small proce to pay.

Well, not exactly *small*. More like *big*.

PuffyPig
05-05-2008, 11:27 PM
Well, not exactly *small*. More like *big*.


How about an acceptable price?

Kershaw is good, but there's lots of Kershaw's that don't become Harang. Most don't. Giving up Kemp would, from the Dodger's perspective, an acceptable price to pay.

But I wouldn't give up Harang for that package. An ace, signed relatively cheaply for almost 5 years, is worth a ton.

macro
05-06-2008, 12:57 AM
I really like both of these guys, but I have a really strong feeling that they may both be past their optimum peak by the team the Reds are ready to contend.

I can see it now....everything comes together in 2010, and Harang takes a nosedive.


I really don't see Aaron Harang taking a nosedive at age 32. I really don't.

RedlegJake
05-06-2008, 01:17 AM
I really don't see Aaron Harang taking a nosedive at age 32. I really don't.

Neither do I. Harang is the type who pitches well late into his thirties.

SteelSD
05-06-2008, 01:41 AM
I'm dreaming, but what about a deal with the Dodgers based around Kemp and Kershaw?

Or, you go crazy and target a lot more like Billy Beane did in the Haren trade. Early returns, yes, but here are the current MLB and MiLB numbers for the players Beane acquired:

MLB:

LH SP Greg Smith: 39.0 IP- 2.54 ERA (4.04 DIPS), 3.00 BB/9, 0.92 HR/9, 7.15 K/9
RH SP Dana Eveland: 34.1 IP- 3.67 ERA (3.47 DIPS), 3.67 BB/9, 0.26 HR/9, 6.82 K/9

MiLB:

CF Carlos Gonzalez (AAA): 70 AB- .343 BA/.410 OBP/.514 SLG
OF Aaron Cunningham (AA): 14 AB- .214 BA/.214 OBP/.214 SLG
1B/DH Chris Carter (A+): 112 AB- .268 BA/.364 OBP/.598 SLG

LH SP Brett Anderson (A+): 33.1 IP- 2.43 ERA, 1.89 BB/9, 0.27 HR/9, 9.72 K/9

Again, early returns, but if Jocketty could introduce that level of talent into the organization, then I'd deal Harang in a heartbeat. But I actually wouldn't do it for Kemp and Kershaw. Too few eggs in that basket.

RedlegJake
05-06-2008, 02:14 AM
Or, you go crazy and target a lot more like Billy Beane did in the Haren trade. .... Again, early returns, but if Jocketty could introduce that level of talent into the organization, then I'd deal Harang in a heartbeat. But I actually wouldn't do it for Kemp and Kershaw. Too few eggs in that basket.

Agreed. I said in another thread I'd only deal Harang if I could get a return that combined the best of the Bedard and Haren deals. Kemp and Kershaw would get it started but I'd need 2 more prospects. Or Kemp, Billingsley and another prospect. Hughes AND Chamberlain and another prospect or two. Harang, imo, is one of the most valuable pitchers in baseball. He's a bonafide ace who unlike some slight of frame aces, also eats a lot of high quality innings. He's a much better bet to last into his late thirties because of his mechanics and body type. He's cheap compared to other top line aces. I'd rather not trade him, but if someone wants to offer a top 10 in baseball prospect, a young, proven hitter already in the big leagues, and 2 or 3 good solid A+, AA prospects projected to move quickly then I'd have to consider it.

jojo
05-06-2008, 08:32 AM
Or, you go crazy and target a lot more like Billy Beane did in the Haren trade. Early returns, yes, but here are the current MLB and MiLB numbers for the players Beane acquired:

MLB:

LH SP Greg Smith: 39.0 IP- 2.54 ERA (4.04 DIPS), 3.00 BB/9, 0.92 HR/9, 7.15 K/9
RH SP Dana Eveland: 34.1 IP- 3.67 ERA (3.47 DIPS), 3.67 BB/9, 0.26 HR/9, 6.82 K/9

MiLB:

CF Carlos Gonzalez (AAA): 70 AB- .343 BA/.410 OBP/.514 SLG
OF Aaron Cunningham (AA): 14 AB- .214 BA/.214 OBP/.214 SLG
1B/DH Chris Carter (A+): 112 AB- .268 BA/.364 OBP/.598 SLG

LH SP Brett Anderson (A+): 33.1 IP- 2.43 ERA, 1.89 BB/9, 0.27 HR/9, 9.72 K/9

Again, early returns, but if Jocketty could introduce that level of talent into the organization, then I'd deal Harang in a heartbeat. But I actually wouldn't do it for Kemp and Kershaw. Too few eggs in that basket.

Beane did a great job on that trade and I still don't understand why some argued he was dumpster diving.

BTW, the rebuilding in Oakland seems to be doing alright so far too.

PuffyPig
05-06-2008, 09:09 AM
Or, you go crazy and target a lot more like Billy Beane did in the Haren trade. Early returns, yes, but here are the current MLB and MiLB numbers for the players Beane acquired:

MLB:

LH SP Greg Smith: 39.0 IP- 2.54 ERA (4.04 DIPS), 3.00 BB/9, 0.92 HR/9, 7.15 K/9
RH SP Dana Eveland: 34.1 IP- 3.67 ERA (3.47 DIPS), 3.67 BB/9, 0.26 HR/9, 6.82 K/9

MiLB:

CF Carlos Gonzalez (AAA): 70 AB- .343 BA/.410 OBP/.514 SLG
OF Aaron Cunningham (AA): 14 AB- .214 BA/.214 OBP/.214 SLG
1B/DH Chris Carter (A+): 112 AB- .268 BA/.364 OBP/.598 SLG

LH SP Brett Anderson (A+): 33.1 IP- 2.43 ERA, 1.89 BB/9, 0.27 HR/9, 9.72 K/9

Again, early returns, but if Jocketty could introduce that level of talent into the organization, then I'd deal Harang in a heartbeat. But I actually wouldn't do it for Kemp and Kershaw. Too few eggs in that basket.

Harang is worth quite a bit more than Haren was.

Why?

5 years of Harang>2 years of Haren.

I won't discuss who is better.

*BaseClogger*
05-06-2008, 10:09 AM
Guys, I did say "based around" Kemp and Kershaw. :) I just don't have enough knowledge of the Dodgers farm system to give you any other names...

Falls City Beer
05-06-2008, 12:41 PM
Guys, I did say "based around" Kemp and Kershaw. :) I just don't have enough knowledge of the Dodgers farm system to give you any other names...

I'd say most teams would be loath to part with more than their best hitting prospect and best pitching prospect.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 01:10 PM
Harang is worth quite a bit more than Haren was.

Why?

5 years of Harang>2 years of Haren.

I won't discuss who is better.

One school of thought would think the exact opposite. There is less risk with Haren since his contract is shorter. You have the option to extend his contract. Harang is locked in to his contract. Say they both got hurt in year one after acquisition. Who would you rather have then?

You get a nice 2 year grace period with Haren. You are out of luck with Harang.

RedlegJake
05-06-2008, 01:35 PM
The nice thing about Harang is you don't have to trade him. Get a bundle of great talent or keep him. You win either way.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 01:40 PM
The nice thing about Harang is you don't have to trade him. Get a bundle of great talent or keep him. You win either way.

Absolutely. If Walt's vision is to have this team in contention in the short term then he has to keep him. If it is more of a long-term tear down and rebuild, then he has options.

PuffyPig
05-06-2008, 02:24 PM
One school of thought would think the exact opposite. There is less risk with Haren since his contract is shorter. You have the option to extend his contract. Harang is locked in to his contract. Say they both got hurt in year one after acquisition. Who would you rather have then?

You get a nice 2 year grace period with Haren. You are out of luck with Harang.

That school of thought is wrong.

You may end of with nothing if Haren pitches well, and you can't afford him or get outbid.

A two year "grace period" works against you every bit as much as for you. There's risk both ways. When you empty the prospect cupboard for a Haren it's not for him to pitch 2 years, the hope is he will pitch 5 or more years. Having him signed to the longer contract makes him more valuable, notwithstanding the risk of injury.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 09:54 PM
That school of thought is wrong.

You may end of with nothing if Haren pitches well, and you can't afford him or get outbid.

A two year "grace period" works against you every bit as much as for you. There's risk both ways. When you empty the prospect cupboard for a Haren it's not for him to pitch 2 years, the hope is he will pitch 5 or more years. Having him signed to the longer contract makes him more valuable, notwithstanding the risk of injury.

You also have two years of exclusive contract negotiations with that two year player if you so choose. Arizona didn't go into the acquisition and say "I really hope we are able to resign him." They know that, if they so choose, they have every chance to sign him.

It's not that either school of thought is wrong. It's how much risk you are willing to absorb.

Last year, Arroyo was the Harang of this conversation. Those extra years on his contract are downright frightening right now.

RedsManRick
05-06-2008, 09:58 PM
Of course, Jocketty has a track record of being the one trading for the 1 player, not the 5.

GAC
05-06-2008, 10:04 PM
So some are going to give Jocketty until 2011 before this team possibly contends?

Wow!

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 10:06 PM
So some are going to give Jocketty until 2011 before this team possibly contends?

Wow!

I'm all for that if that is his goal.

If he goes out and breaks the record for most money given to a closer, then I wouldn't give him that much time to "possibly contend".

GAC
05-06-2008, 10:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't trade away Aaron Harang. You want that "anchor" and veteran presence in your rotation with kids like Volquez, Cueto, and Bailey.

You build around a sound pitching rotation. You trade Harang and fill that void with who? Creating holes to try and fill other holes? What an endless cycle.

I'm no expert on Walt Jocketty; but it seems to me that he has been able to acquire and build around a foundation of core players. Harang is one of those core players IMO. We have some sound pieces in young players like Votto, EE, Bailey, Keppinger, Phillips, and then Bruce.

Jr and Dunn, IMHO, are not here come 2009. Other players, like Weathers, Mercker, and some others are also gone. With those contracts gone, as well as money owed to other various player who have been released also fulfilled at season's end, Jocketty will have some payroll flexibility to work with.

And isn't that where Jocketty's talents lie? Being able to identify and go after those players in the market?


I'm all for that if that is his goal.

If he goes out and breaks the record for most money given to a closer, then I wouldn't give him that much time to "possibly contend".

Obviously not much is going to be done this year by Jocketty IMO. And I don't fault him for that. Bob C says he has a "gentleman's agreement" with Walt till 2011. So Walt is going to have show improvements next year, as well as in 2010. And I think he can.

As miserable as we are playing right now, I still don't think this team is really that far off from contending if Jocketty is able to find those players who are the right complement (mix) with some of those core players we currently have.

Will M
05-07-2008, 12:55 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't trade away Aaron Harang. You want that "anchor" and veteran presence in your rotation with kids like Volquez, Cueto, and Bailey.

You build around a sound pitching rotation. You trade Harang and fill that void with who? Creating holes to try and fill other holes? What an endless cycle.

I'm no expert on Walt Jocketty; but it seems to me that he has been able to acquire and build around a foundation of core players. Harang is one of those core players IMO. We have some sound pieces in young players like Votto, EE, Bailey, Keppinger, Phillips, and then Bruce.

Jr and Dunn, IMHO, are not here come 2009. Other players, like Weathers, Mercker, and some others are also gone. With those contracts gone, as well as money owed to other various player who have been released also fulfilled at season's end, Jocketty will have some payroll flexibility to work with.

And isn't that where Jocketty's talents lie? Being able to identify and go after those players in the market?



Obviously not much is going to be done this year by Jocketty IMO. And I don't fault him for that. Bob C says he has a "gentleman's agreement" with Walt till 2011. So Walt is going to have show improvements next year, as well as in 2010. And I think he can.

As miserable as we are playing right now, I still don't think this team is really that far off from contending if Jocketty is able to find those players who are the right complement (mix) with some of those core players we currently have.

1. We have an ACE & 3 young pitchers who are 'A' prospects
2. We have a closer
3. We have some good core young offensive players

The Cards won division title with less than this. With so much money coming off the books the next 12 months will be interesting. As ugly and depressing as 2008 has been I look forward to 2009.

GAC
05-07-2008, 10:18 PM
1. We have an ACE & 3 young pitchers who are 'A' prospects
2. We have a closer
3. We have some good core young offensive players

The Cards won division title with less than this. With so much money coming off the books the next 12 months will be interesting. As ugly and depressing as 2008 has been I look forward to 2009.

Exactly.

Look at the current Card's lineup and what they are doing? I'm not saying it is going to last, it's possible, but I've been impressed with what they've assembled. I don't care what anyone says about Albert Pujols, but the guy is a fierce competitor, hates to lose, and makes those around him better. He's the Card's "Barry Larkin". I would love to have a guy like him on this team. Just one example? In their 6-5 win over the Rockies the other night, the Pujols doubled in the 9th and then scores the go-ahead run from 2B on Ankiel's groundout. The guy constantly gets on, and also knows how to run the bases as it seems many on the Cards do. We don't. They find ways to win, while this team finds ways to lose.

Look at the current performance from their mainline performers so far. And I've never even heard of some of these guys! :lol:


OB% SLG% BA

Ankiel .368 .496 .277
Glaus .326 .356 .229
Schumaker .376 .432 .297
Pujols .503 .591 .348
Molina .348 .412 .294
Kennedy .380 .386 .325
Ludwick .426 .675 .349
Izturis .354 .293 .244
Duncan .385 .378 .257
Miles .357 .338 .308
Barton .385 .435 .304

And then I look at the performance of some in this pitching corp, and ex-Reds like Lohse, Villone, Franklin, and I wonder what is going on? Is the team constructed to promote a certain philosophy or attitude? Is it not only about talent, but also leadership?

buckeyenut
05-08-2008, 06:38 PM
I'd be trying to move Phillips well before Harang.

Also: I'm not sure any team would be capable and/or willing to offer up the bounty that I would require for Harang. Like someone else posted, I'd want their four best prospects, and it'd need to be an organization that actually has good/great prospects, not dreck.

There are teams out there. The question isn't whether or not there are teams out there. The question is, would they pay the price?

The most intriguing target would be Tampa Bay. They look like they could be real contenders this year, they need someone affordable, they have a ton of young redundant talent, and they could use a guy like Harang to be the vet ace fronting the playoff rotation of Harang, Shields, Kazmir. If they are in it at the deadline and we are not, I would be picking up the phone and at least having a conversation.