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View Full Version : I wouldnt trade any pitchers...none!



icehole3
05-06-2008, 04:49 AM
Trade any hitters you want but no pitchers, as a matter of fact I would draft 5 pitchers in this years draft in the first 5 rounds and wouldnt think twice about it. Trade Edwin, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger I dont care, probably could only get wet jock straps for Jr, Patterson and Dunn. Cant afford to trade any, I mean any pitchers. Just my thoughts, call me el-stuppido, but pitchers dont grow on trees and although there's some good prospects coming up we dont have near enough IMO, like I said call me el-stuppido.

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PuffyPig
05-06-2008, 08:11 AM
I agree with you.

If Cueto and Volquez become very good, along with Harang, we can contend virtually overnight.

If you have a rotation,you have a (potential) contender.

jojo
05-06-2008, 08:30 AM
Trade any hitters you want but no pitchers, as a matter of fact I would draft 5 pitchers in this years draft in the first 5 rounds and wouldnt think twice about it. Trade Edwin, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger I dont care, probably could only get wet jock straps for Jr, Patterson and Dunn. Cant afford to trade any, I mean any pitchers. Just my thoughts, call me el-stuppido, but pitchers dont grow on trees and although there's some good prospects coming up we dont have near enough IMO, like I said call me el-stuppido.

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That's a recipe for a barren farm system.

HokieRed
05-06-2008, 10:32 AM
Cueto and Volquez have been pitching well, Volquez certainly as well as it's likely he'll ever pitch in his career? Are we contending yet?

jojo
05-06-2008, 10:54 AM
Cueto and Volquez have been pitching well, Volquez certainly as well as it's likely he'll ever pitch in his career? Are we contending yet?

Look at Seattle.... King Felix and Bedard and Putz and a long shot to make the playoffs at best.

Spitball
05-06-2008, 11:03 AM
Trade any hitters you want but no pitchers, as a matter of fact I would draft 5 pitchers in this years draft in the first 5 rounds ...

I totally agree. I'd build the foundation on pitching and defense, then go from there. The more pitchers the better. The Reds have a sorry history of developing pitchers but little trouble picking up Randas, Aurilias, Phillips, Hamiltons, Hattebergs, Keppingers, et al, to fill positions. I'd hold onto Bruce and Votto, though.

dougdirt
05-06-2008, 11:41 AM
The Reds HAD a sorry history of developing pitchers. A whole ton of that time was when Jim Bowden was at the helm. Since he has left, the Reds have not had a single top pitching prospect go down to any major injury. They are also developing these guys. Cueto, Wood, Bailey and Thompson are all looking just fine to me. That doesn't count a guy like Jordan Smith either.

Drafting just pitching, like jojo said, is going to be a disaster.

Spitball
05-06-2008, 11:56 AM
I wouldn't draft only pitchers, but I'd make pitching a priority. I'd scout Latin America and explore the Asian market. I'd talk Soto into a full time job and try to get Leo Mazzone on board in a major developmental capacity.

icehole3
05-06-2008, 12:13 PM
The Reds HAD a sorry history of developing pitchers. A whole ton of that time was when Jim Bowden was at the helm. Since he has left, the Reds have not had a single top pitching prospect go down to any major injury. They are also developing these guys. Cueto, Wood, Bailey and Thompson are all looking just fine to me. That doesn't count a guy like Jordan Smith either.

Drafting just pitching, like jojo said, is going to be a disaster.

They only way I dont draft pitching in rounds 1-5 is if the kid drafted has superior power, thats the only reason.

icehole3
05-06-2008, 12:15 PM
If Jr goes to Seattle it better be for one of their top pitching talents. Whoever that is.

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jojo
05-06-2008, 12:15 PM
I'd draft offense (hopefully offense+defense) high. It's much less risky. The goal is to churn out as much major league talent as possible. Offense can be trade for pitching that has survived the arm implosion....

dougdirt
05-06-2008, 12:15 PM
They only way I dont draft pitching in rounds 1-5 is if the kid drafted has superior power, thats the only reason.

Well I am glad that you aren't running the draft because thats a pretty poor strategy. There is no reason to reach for pitching when you have someone else rated higher. This isn't the NBA or NFL. You are lucky if you get 3 guys from any draft to be valuable to your major league team, pushing your luck on that by drafting lesser talents because they throw for a living rather than field and swing a bat diminishes those chances dramatically.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 12:15 PM
If Jr goes to Seattle it better be for one of their top pitching talents.

No way that would happen.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 12:23 PM
Well I am glad that you aren't running the draft because thats a pretty poor strategy. There is no reason to reach for pitching when you have someone else rated higher. This isn't the NBA or NFL. You are lucky if you get 3 guys from any draft to be valuable to your major league team, pushing your luck on that by drafting lesser talents because they throw for a living rather than field and swing a bat diminishes those chances dramatically.

I'm not sure that he is saying to reach for pitching. If you have the #4 ranked pitcher and #3 ranked hitter available, all things being equal I think that some (including myself) would like to see the pitcher get the call.

No one is saying to draft lesser talents just because they are a pitcher. Target pitching, but if there is a top position player available and you like him better than the next pitcher on the board, then go for it.
At least that's my philosophy.

icehole3
05-06-2008, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure that he is saying to reach for pitching. If you have the #4 ranked pitcher and #3 ranked hitter available, all things being equal I think that some (including myself) would like to see the pitcher get the call.

No one is saying to draft lesser talents just because they are a pitcher. Target pitching, but if there is a top position player available and you like him better than the next pitcher on the board, then go for it.
At least that's my philosophy.

thats exactly what I mean, if youve got 3 or 4 in a grouping in the first 5 rounds the pitcher gets selected every time IMO.

jojo
05-06-2008, 12:32 PM
If Jr goes to Seattle it better be for one of their top pitching talents. Whoever that is.

http://www.SternFanNetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/dontknow.gif

That's kinda silly talk.

RedlegJake
05-06-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm not sure that he is saying to reach for pitching. If you have the #4 ranked pitcher and #3 ranked hitter available, all things being equal I think that some (including myself) would like to see the pitcher get the call.

No one is saying to draft lesser talents just because they are a pitcher. Target pitching, but if there is a top position player available and you like him better than the next pitcher on the board, then go for it.
At least that's my philosophy.

That's my philosophy in a nutshell. Take the best player available, if its close and one is a pitcher go with the arm. Drafting only pitchers mean you miss out on the Bruce's, Upton's and Maybin's of the baseball world.

edabbs44
05-06-2008, 12:37 PM
I'm not sure that he is saying to reach for pitching. If you have the #4 ranked pitcher and #3 ranked hitter available, all things being equal I think that some (including myself) would like to see the pitcher get the call.

No one is saying to draft lesser talents just because they are a pitcher. Target pitching, but if there is a top position player available and you like him better than the next pitcher on the board, then go for it.
At least that's my philosophy.

And that's my philosophy for the Reds for right now. If the Reds did this two or three times and had a nice crop of arms in the minors who are progressing, I would probably switch gears and do the same for hitting.

KronoRed
05-06-2008, 12:40 PM
That's a recipe for a barren farm system.

Nah we'll just draft pitchers who can hit :D

dougdirt
05-06-2008, 12:48 PM
thats exactly what I mean, if youve got 3 or 4 in a grouping in the first 5 rounds the pitcher gets selected every time IMO.

That is rarely the case though. So in a lot of cases you are going to end up taking a pitcher who is ranked # 60 on your board instead of the hitter ranked #52 on your board. Thats setting yourself up for failure. Sure, if there is a pitcher ranked 54 and a hitter ranked 52.... whatever, thats not a big deal. That doesn't seem to happen too often though.

REDREAD
05-06-2008, 01:07 PM
Trade any hitters you want but no pitchers, as a matter of fact I would draft 5 pitchers in this years draft in the first 5 rounds and wouldnt think twice about it. Trade Edwin, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger I dont care, probably could only get wet jock straps for Jr, Patterson and Dunn. Cant afford to trade any, I mean any pitchers. Just my thoughts, call me el-stuppido, but pitchers dont grow on trees and although there's some good prospects coming up we dont have near enough IMO, like I said call me el-stuppido.


First, I don't think it's wise to make a blanket strategy like only drafting pitchers in the first 5 rounds. Historically, it's tough to predict a lot of pitchers on draft day. You get guys like Sullivan and Williamson that were drafted later. What if you get to round 4, and there's no pitchers that really stand out, but there's a raw shortstop who might make it to the bigs?

Lastly, I think at this time, we have a weak collection of position players.
We take for granted that we can always pull an Aurillia, Ron Gant, or Kevin Mitchell out of nowhere. Fact is, we haven't been able to do it in a long time.
AGon was a failure. Patterson doesn't look so good now. We need a catcher.
The whole OF might get turned over this offseason.

In fact, I think the Reds should continue to draft whoever they think is most likely to be a good ML player. If that's a catcher, the Reds should still draft that guy, even if their top 8 prospects are all catchers. Talent can always be traded. Bad draft picks are worthless.

Cyclone792
05-06-2008, 01:21 PM
If Jr goes to Seattle it better be for one of their top pitching talents. Whoever that is.

http://www.SternFanNetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/dontknow.gif

Rumor has it Walt Jocketty's magic runs so deep that he's developed the world's first time machine. He's currently using it to negotiate a Griffey for Lefty Grove swap with Connie Mack.

With a little bit of wishful thinking, Walt may pull this one off!

icehole3
05-06-2008, 04:08 PM
That is rarely the case though. So in a lot of cases you are going to end up taking a pitcher who is ranked # 60 on your board instead of the hitter ranked #52 on your board. Thats setting yourself up for failure. Sure, if there is a pitcher ranked 54 and a hitter ranked 52.... whatever, thats not a big deal. That doesn't seem to happen too often though.

Yes if a pitcher is 60 and the hitter is 52 yes, this year yes. I think the Reds are one more pitcher's draft away from stepping up there with the Rays, RedSox's, Diamondbacks etc pitching wise.

bucksfan2
05-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Balance. Every team needs balance. You have to score runs in order to win games. You are never going to win a game 0-0. As for the draft strategy I take the best available player on the board. I may weight it a little differently based upon being a pitcher or hitter but to overlook the top players because they are not pitchers is a recipe for disaster.

TRF
05-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Shouldn't this be in the minor league forum?

Well, here is what I'd do. Rd. 1 best pitcher available, unless the best position player available rates higher. rd. 2 repeat. rd. 3 repeat. rd. 4 repeat. In rd. 5 I start looking at college bats, specifically seniors. I look hard in this area for 4-5 rounds. You can find some gems there. then back to what I stated in rounds 1-4.

But I'd be flexible too. my third criteria is need. Need doesn't trump best pitcher or best player, but if my biggest need is CF and pitcher in round 1, I go with the pitcher.

Highlifeman21
05-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Down the road we'll continue to need both hitting and pitching.

We're not exactly setting the world on fire in either department. At least not in a positive way.

klw
05-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Trade any hitters you want but no pitchers, as a matter of fact I would draft 5 pitchers in this years draft in the first 5 rounds and wouldnt think twice about it. Trade Edwin, Votto, Phillips, Keppinger I dont care, probably could only get wet jock straps for Jr, Patterson and Dunn. Cant afford to trade any, I mean any pitchers. Just my thoughts, call me el-stuppido, but pitchers dont grow on trees and although there's some good prospects coming up we dont have near enough IMO, like I said call me el-stuppido.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Happy/HappyWave.gif

So you wouldn't do any of these deals?
Fogg and Majewski for Hanley Ramirez
Arroyo and Coffee for Pujols
Weathers and Lehr for Joe Mauer
Belisle and Matt Maloney for Justin Upton


Lets see that would be
LF Votto
CF Upton
RF Bruce
3b EE
SS H Ramirez
2b Phillips
1b Pujols
c Mauer

SP
Volquez
Harang
Cueto
Bailey
Thompson

Sure the rotation is green but even if the CF hits leadoff they will score.
Okay time to wakeup and leave for home.

fearofpopvol1
05-06-2008, 06:25 PM
There was a time where I thought this stance was a good idea, but not anymore. Like jojo siad, good players and are good players and you're not likely to have trouble moving good players, no matter what position. I was furious when O'Brien drafted Jay Bruce after the Reds pitching sucked that year, and while we still don't know how he'll perform in the bigs, it's made O'Brien look like a genius as Bruce is the #1 prospect.

So, you take the best player available, regardless of the position. Now, one thing that did bug me about Krivsky was I thought he waited a little late in his drafts to start getting pitchers. I'd like to see them take a few more risks in the 3-5 rounds.

HokieRed
05-06-2008, 10:06 PM
Another very well pitched game tonight. Are we contending yet?

Spitball
05-06-2008, 11:21 PM
Another very well pitched game tonight. Are we contending yet?

I'd rather lose 3-0 rather than 11-8.

Marc D
05-06-2008, 11:37 PM
I'd rather lose 3-0 rather than 11-8.


I'd rather start winning