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View Full Version : Mesoraco, Parker to Dayton. Frazier to Sarasota. Valaika to Chattanooga



dougdirt
05-07-2008, 03:19 AM
Per DDN

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/05/07/ddn050708spdragons.html

In addition to Frazier moving up, reserve infielder Brett Bartles was sent to extended spring training. Joining the Dragons today will be catcher Devin Mesoraco, the Reds' No. 1 pick in last summer's draft, and first baseman Logan Parker, who was rehabbing an injury. Parker was here last season. Both additions have played only in extended spring games so far.

The article also notes that Chris Valaika is heading to Chattanooga.

reds44
05-07-2008, 03:24 AM
Good to see the Reds didn't waste much time moving Fraizer up.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 03:35 AM
I'm not sure I agree with the Mesoraco promotion. Seems a bit premature, don't you think?

dougdirt
05-07-2008, 04:01 AM
I'm not sure I agree with the Mesoraco promotion. Seems a bit premature, don't you think?

Not really. He has been hitting very well in Ext ST according to all reports. I think a lot of people put entirely too much stock into his season last year with his injuries.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 04:03 AM
He's still really young. I just don't feel like there's any need to rush him, but if they think he is ready, then okay.

dougdirt
05-07-2008, 04:08 AM
He's still really young. I just don't feel like there's any need to rush him, but if they think he is ready, then okay.

He turns 20 in June.... not exactly young. Certainly not old, but he isn't 18 or anything.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 04:42 AM
19 now though and I feel like the high school draftees should be coddled more. Especially when their rookie ball effort wasn't exactly inspiring. Extended spring training is cool and all, but I put less weight into that.

Either way, we'll see soon enough if it's the right/wrong decision.

Eric in IL
05-07-2008, 05:32 AM
I'm leaving for Sarasota today for vacation and was hoping that Frazier would be there in time for my trip. I will be at the games Thursday and Friday. It comes at the expense of missing Valaika, but Frazier is the player I wanted most to see. The vacation is off to a great start!!

Aronchis
05-07-2008, 05:58 AM
Yeah, push the bats, coddle the arms. I like the promotions. Frazier may struggle a little more than expected intially as it is quite the leap to high A but I think he adjusts quickly.

medford
05-07-2008, 06:39 AM
Don't most high school picks made high in the draft start out in Dayton during their first full season of ball? I thought that was the route for Bailey, Bruce, Travis Wood, etc... If the kid was talented enough to be picked in the first round, he should be talented enough to play for the Dragons this year. I'm excited to see how he performs.

HBP
05-07-2008, 09:55 AM
Don't most high school picks made high in the draft start out in Dayton during their first full season of ball?

Yes...basically all first round picks start the first full season in Dayton. Ryan Wagner was the last not to.

edabbs44
05-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Yes...basically all first round picks start the first full season in Dayton. Ryan Wagner was the last not to.

Stubbs did have about 250 PAs in Billings. While it wasn't his first full season, it was still a significanlt amount of appearances.

HokieRed
05-07-2008, 10:13 AM
I like it. I take it this is Jocketty's first move in handling the system and I like the more aggressive approach. Now to get Cumberland to AAA and, hopefully, Cody Strait not too far behind him, and maybe to start clearing out some of the career minor league types.

Heath
05-07-2008, 10:19 AM
I was kinda hoping Frazier to help lead the Dragons to the First Half championship.

OesterPoster
05-07-2008, 10:39 AM
I was kinda hoping Frazier to help lead the Dragons to the First Half championship.

It helps though that a lot of other Dragons have come around. Reed, Jones, Phipps, Cozart, all have been hitting well lately. Frazier and Waring carried the team early, but it's been the supporting cast lately.

Benihana
05-07-2008, 10:51 AM
:thumbup:

SarasotaFan
05-07-2008, 10:58 AM
If he was doing well in extended spring then it's time to get him out of there and into some night games. Don't they wake up and practice / do drills and then play a game around noon / 1 in the heat of the day ?? That has to be miserable.

Sea Ray
05-07-2008, 02:31 PM
Do we know where Frazier will play in Sarasota and Valaika in Chatt?

Doc. Scott
05-07-2008, 02:52 PM
My guess is that Valaika is going to stay at SS for the time being. The Reds also demoted the primary Lookouts SS, Jose Castro, back to Sarasota.

Frazier is probably going to end up at one of the corner positions in the FSL- either 1B or the outfield. (Juan Francisco is at 3B.) My guess is 1B, where the competition is Jason Louwsma. And Louwsma, despite three hits last night, is slugging .342 at the moment.

Benihana
05-07-2008, 02:54 PM
Frazier should be in LF

Kingspoint
05-07-2008, 04:57 PM
We'll see if these are the right moves and how Walt Jockety handles these things.

Krivsky did an excellent job with it.

thorn
05-07-2008, 06:45 PM
According to MILB.com, Mesoraco is taking the field tonight. But I have to wonder, is he in Dayton for the entire season or will he get sent to Billings once their season starts.

dougdirt
05-07-2008, 07:07 PM
According to MILB.com, Mesoraco is taking the field tonight. But I have to wonder, is he in Dayton for the entire season or will he get sent to Billings once their season starts.

Likely depends on how well he plays.

Joseph
05-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Congrat to all.

TOBTTReds
05-07-2008, 10:54 PM
If he was doing well in extended spring then it's time to get him out of there and into some night games. Don't they wake up and practice / do drills and then play a game around noon / 1 in the heat of the day ?? That has to be miserable.

Mez was also probably catching 10 bullpen sessions a day.

_Sir_Charles_
05-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Waring didn't move up too? I'm a bit surprised by that. Or maybe it's a log-jam higher up. *heads off to check*

dougdirt
05-07-2008, 11:36 PM
Waring didn't move up too? I'm a bit surprised by that. Or maybe it's a log-jam higher up. *heads off to check*

Its probably more likely they want him to tune his game up quite a bit still. Francisco is ahead of him, but Waring has some fine tuning to go still.

Joseph
05-08-2008, 10:38 AM
Warings got a little Wily Mo in his game. K's badly, then homers. I know theres more to it than that, but its a big part. I think if he can cut down those K's though, he'll be dangerous.

redsof72
05-09-2008, 05:52 PM
Those who saw the game in Dayton Thursday night had to be more than a little concerned with what they saw of Mesoraco behind the plate. To say he struggled receiving pitches would be a major understatement. The ball was constantly clanking off his glove. Fastballs above the belt were bouncing off his glove like they were rubber balls. He did not look like a professional. Granted, he was catching guys that he has possibly not seen much of, but it was hard to watch at times. You have to wonder about the fact that he probably has very little experience catching pitchers who throw at the speeds he will be seeing at the pro level. If he does not dramatically improve on Thursday's performance, they simply won't be able to keeping putting him back there. They will have to DH him or send him back to extended. You would have a mutiny with the pitchers and the pitching coach.

lollipopcurve
05-09-2008, 06:06 PM
If he does not dramatically improve on Thursday's performance, they simply won't be able to keeping putting him back there.

Not good. Although I have a hard time believing they'd have sent him to Dayton if he were as blatantly incompetent as the post suggests. Still, rumors that he struggles defensively have been about, and this seems to confirm it.
I wonder if they will look carefully at Kyle Skipworth for their round 1 selection in the draft (assuming Posey is gone).

11larkin11
05-09-2008, 06:10 PM
Those who saw the game in Dayton Thursday night had to be more than a little concerned with what they saw of Mesoraco behind the plate. To say he struggled receiving pitches would be a major understatement. The ball was constantly clanking off his glove. Fastballs above the belt were bouncing off his glove like they were rubber balls. He did not look like a professional. Granted, he was catching guys that he has possibly not seen much of, but it was hard to watch at times. You have to wonder about the fact that he probably has very little experience catching pitchers who throw at the speeds he will be seeing at the pro level. If he does not dramatically improve on Thursday's performance, they simply won't be able to keeping putting him back there. They will have to DH him or send him back to extended. You would have a mutiny with the pitchers and the pitching coach.

It was one game and his first real pro game since I don't really count the GCL because it really has no coverage and is all day games. He hasn't seen these guys and will adjust, as well as adjust to game speed on a big level too. Give him time, he's young. Don't judge over one game.

dougdirt
05-09-2008, 06:13 PM
Mesoraco is probably still struggling defensively. Most catchers do early in their careers, especially high school ones. The good thing is, he is very athletic and has great hands, so he should be able to improve with time and practice. Like I noted in another thread (could have been this thread... I don't want to look) for those of us in the Dayton/Cincinnati area, next weekends games will be on Cable, so we should get a chance to see him during that time.

Also wanted to note that it was a night game and it honestly could have been his first time playing under artificial light. Another things to think about.

OnBaseMachine
05-12-2008, 05:18 PM
Hopefully if Frazier hits well he's in Chattanooga by July...

medford
05-13-2008, 09:37 AM
I heard part of the game, and they way they described it gave me some concern, but wasn't Thursday his Dragons Debut? If so, that's easily the most fans he's played in front of as a pro, if not ever. I'll give the kid a pass for the first week or so. Doug said the Dragons games were on TV this weekend Friday & Saturday, I plan to watch/DVR those to see him live in action. The jitters should be gone by then, which should give us a better idea of how he handles the catcher position.

Edit: Guess I missed page 3 where all of my concerns/comments were made by others.

mbgrayson
05-13-2008, 10:32 AM
Mesoraco has now played 3 games for Dayton. He is hitting .200/.273/.200 for an OPS of .473 so far. (Very small sample size.) It looks like he has given up 2 SBs in 2 attempts.

His stats are available HERE (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mesoraco%20%20C&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=519023).

Benihana
05-13-2008, 10:42 AM
Mesoraco has now played 3 games for Dayton. He is hitting .200/.273/.200 for an OPS of .473 so far. (Very small sample size.) It looks like he has given up 2 SBs in 2 attempts.

His stats are available HERE (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Mesoraco%20%20C&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=519023).

I'm not too concerned about the numbers Mesoraco puts up in Dayton so long as he can stay there all year. If he gets sent back to Billings and fails to tear it up, I'd start to grow concerned.

Next year is the important year to watch Mesoraco and his numbers.

Kc61
05-13-2008, 10:51 AM
I'm not too concerned about the numbers Mesoraco puts up in Dayton so long as he can stay there all year. If he gets sent back to Billings and fails to tear it up, I'd start to grow concerned.

Next year is the important year to watch Mesoraco and his numbers.

I think it's clear Mesoraco will go to Billings when its season starts. He undoubtedly would be at that level now, but there are no games yet. I agree that it would be a good sign if he does well there.

lollipopcurve
05-13-2008, 11:20 AM
I heard part of the game, and they way they described it gave me some concern, but wasn't Thursday his Dragons Debut? If so, that's easily the most fans he's played in front of as a pro, if not ever. I'll give the kid a pass for the first week or so. Doug said the Dragons games were on TV this weekend Friday & Saturday, I plan to watch/DVR those to see him live in action. The jitters should be gone by then, which should give us a better idea of how he handles the catcher position.

Last couple games he's had no Es, WPs, PBs or SBs against, for what it's worth. Last night's game was very well pitched (3 hitter, 1 BB, 13 Ks). I have to figure he's holding his own behind the plate.

dougdirt
05-13-2008, 12:58 PM
I think it's clear Mesoraco will go to Billings when its season starts. He undoubtedly would be at that level now, but there are no games yet. I agree that it would be a good sign if he does well there.

I am really curious why you think its clear that Mesoraco will go to Billings when the season starts?

redsmetz
05-13-2008, 03:32 PM
I am really curious why you think its clear that Mesoraco will go to Billings when the season starts?

I almost posted the same thing back when they first made this move. I'm not familiar enough with the protocols on moving players up and down, but I wondered whether they weren't interested in getting him some real-game action until Billings gets under way in July. I certain wouldn't say it's "clear", but it made some sense to me.

fearofpopvol1
05-13-2008, 03:41 PM
I almost posted the same thing back when they first made this move. I'm not familiar enough with the protocols on moving players up and down, but I wondered whether they weren't interested in getting him some real-game action until Billings gets under way in July. I certain wouldn't say it's "clear", but it made some sense to me.

Yeah, I agree with this. I just don't think he's ready for Dayton yet. He shouldn't skip an entire level, especially since he didn't prove he was dominant in rookie ball.

Blue
05-13-2008, 03:50 PM
I just figured he showed them enough in extended spring training to make them think he was ready for Low-A.

dougdirt
05-13-2008, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I agree with this. I just don't think he's ready for Dayton yet. He shouldn't skip an entire level, especially since he didn't prove he was dominant in rookie ball.

He isn't showing he is overmatched at all in Dayton albeit just 11 times to the plate. Skipping rookie ball is not a big deal at all. Lots of guys never even play in rookie ball.

fearofpopvol1
05-13-2008, 05:10 PM
He isn't showing he is overmatched at all in Dayton albeit just 11 times to the plate. Skipping rookie ball is not a big deal at all. Lots of guys never even play in rookie ball.

More times than not, this happens if it's a college player or an "elite" talent. I don't think Mesoraco has proven that he's that, at least yet. As you said, 11 times at the plate. That's not really a big enough sample size either way. Look, if he dominates or shows consistency between now and then (both offensively AND defensively), I'm all for keeping him in Dayton. I think given that he's a high school player, he would benefit more from developing in a lower level, though.

dougdirt
05-13-2008, 05:34 PM
More times than not, this happens if it's a college player or an "elite" talent. I don't think Mesoraco has proven that he's that, at least yet. As you said, 11 times at the plate. That's not really a big enough sample size either way. Look, if he dominates or shows consistency between now and then (both offensively AND defensively), I'm all for keeping him in Dayton. I think given that he's a high school player, he would benefit more from developing in a lower level, though.

He didn't really show he was overmatched last year. He had a solid walk rate and a very respectable strikeout rate in the GCL last year. He played hurt as well for almost all of the season with two injuries on separate hands. I just don't think there is any harm with keeping him in Dayton unless he shows he is clearly overmatched (striking out a ton and not walking much at all). I don't think that is going to happen though because he covers the plate well and has a good understanding of the strikezone.

fearofpopvol1
05-13-2008, 05:37 PM
He didn't really show he was overmatched last year. He had a solid walk rate and a very respectable strikeout rate in the GCL last year. He played hurt as well for almost all of the season with two injuries on separate hands. I just don't think there is any harm with keeping him in Dayton unless he shows he is clearly overmatched (striking out a ton and not walking much at all). I don't think that is going to happen though because he covers the plate well and has a good understanding of the strikezone.

I'm far more concerned about his defense in Dayton than his offense. To his credit though, it looks like he's improved with each start. It's too early to say either way I guess.

lollipopcurve
05-13-2008, 08:09 PM
I just don't think there is any harm with keeping him in Dayton unless he shows he is clearly overmatched (striking out a ton and not walking much at all).

I'm going to disagree here. I think you need an overall plan of level by level advancement with Mesoraco. A month in Dayton, before returning him to Billings to catch guys like Lotzkar and Ravin, is a nice way to help him move up permanently to Dayton in 09. It's not just that you want him to "keep his head above water," you want him to thrive and gain confidence. He's got a better chance of doing that in Billings than in Dayton (especially after spending a few weeks in Dayton). The only way I'd keep him in Dayton is if he's absolutely mashing, and I doubt that happens.

dougdirt
05-13-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm going to disagree here. I think you need an overall plan of level by level advancement with Mesoraco. A month in Dayton, before returning him to Billings to catch guys like Lotzkar and Ravin, is a nice way to help him move up permanently to Dayton in 09. It's not just that you want him to "keep his head above water," you want him to thrive and gain confidence. He's got a better chance of doing that in Billings than in Dayton (especially after spending a few weeks in Dayton). The only way I'd keep him in Dayton is if he's absolutely mashing, and I doubt that happens.

So if he is hitting .250/.340/.400 you send him to Billings?

RedsManRick
05-13-2008, 10:40 PM
My concern with Mesoraco is that by the time he's actually a prospect, he's going to be Rule V eligible and nowhere near ready.

lollipopcurve
05-13-2008, 10:45 PM
So if he is hitting .250/.340/.400 you send him to Billings?

Yes, I think so.

lollipopcurve
05-13-2008, 10:47 PM
My concern with Mesoraco is that by the time he's actually a prospect, he's going to be Rule V eligible and nowhere near ready.

Plenty of time, plenty of time. If he looks legit, put him on the 40-man when the time comes and there's nothing to worry about.

LoganBuck
05-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Plenty of time, plenty of time. If he looks legit, put him on the 40-man when the time comes and there's nothing to worry about.

He doesn't have to stick to the 25 man for six more years. He has time.