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flyer85
05-07-2008, 03:35 PM
if Jocketty really wants to make a change that might help he ought to go and acquire Willits from the Angels. The ANgels have no room for him and Dusty could have his woody with speed in the leadoff spot and that speed might actually get on a base a lot. It is time for the Patterson debacle to end and Dusty just can't help himself if he is around to play CF and bat leadoff.

Chip R
05-07-2008, 03:38 PM
From your lips to Walt's ears.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 03:38 PM
I imagine they'll get some sticker shock from the Angels' demands....

flyer85
05-07-2008, 03:41 PM
I imagine they'll get some sticker shock from the Angels' demands....He serves no use to the Angels, they have 2 CFs signed long term and most teams want more punch out of an OF. The Reds are actually a team that is lot more OBP challenged than SLG challenged and he would be a good fit. If the Angels want a bunch for him then in the end they will get nothing and he will rot either on their bench or AAA.

Although the Angels have a history of hanging on to prospects(although Willits has never been a top prospect) until their either succeed or lose all of their value ... much to the detriment of the major league team the last few years.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 03:43 PM
why? He serves no use to the Angels, .

He does. He's a trading chip and the Angels don't have to trade him.

And the Reds are about as hard up for offense as any team in baseball. I'm guessing they'll be asking for Roenicke.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 03:44 PM
why? He serves no use to the Angels, they have 2 CFs signed long term and most teams want more punch out of an OF. The Reds are actually a team that is lot more OBP challenged than SLG challenged and he would be a good fit. If the Angels want a bunch for him then in the end they will get nothing and he will rot either on their bench or AAA.

Yeah, but he does have value. If the Reds can't match the demands, another team might. Just because the Angels don't have room for him doesn't mean they shouldn't try to seek value for him.

flyer85
05-07-2008, 03:46 PM
He does. He's a trading chip and the Angels don't have to trade him.

And the Reds are about as hard up for offense as any team in baseball. I'm guessing they'll be asking for Roenicke.no problem from my POV ... good GMs have always shown the ability to build a pen if you have a closer. Roenicke has a very good fastball but still needs something else to be really effective at the end of games.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 03:51 PM
no problem from my POV ... good GMs have always shown the ability to build a pen if you have a closer. Roenicke has a very good fastball but still needs something else to be really effective at the end of games.

I think a similar solution could be found for less. But maybe not.

Jpup
05-07-2008, 03:52 PM
He does. He's a trading chip and the Angels don't have to trade him.

And the Reds are about as hard up for offense as any team in baseball. I'm guessing they'll be asking for Roenicke.

ok. that would be easy to do. a bullpen arm for an everyday guy, I do it 7 days a week.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 03:53 PM
ok. that would be easy to do. a bullpen arm for an everyday guy, I do it 7 days a week.

Careful. It's not like the Reds have an overabundance of trading chips on the farm. Contrary to popular sentiment. Gotta make 'em count.

Rojo
05-07-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm guessing they'll be asking for Roenicke


And you won't get a shut door from me. Gets on base, can run, can play centerfield, oh yeah.

LoganBuck
05-07-2008, 03:57 PM
Careful. It's not like the Reds have an overabundance of quality trading chips on the farm. Contrary to popular sentiment. Gotta make 'em count.

Fixed!

Benihana
05-07-2008, 04:05 PM
I would definitely consider a Roenicke for Willitis deal.

GoReds
05-07-2008, 04:11 PM
An idea I was pimping about the time everyone was opening Xmas presents

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64530&highlight=willits

flyer85
05-07-2008, 04:14 PM
An idea I was pimping about the time everyone was opening Xmas presents I remember the thread ... I think at the time most were hoping for Bruce in CF. Since it looks like that likely won't come to pass Willits is certainly a superior option to the likes of Freel/Patterson/Hopper. It seems as Bruce will arrive to take over RF.

GoReds
05-07-2008, 04:16 PM
Really like the idea, at least in the short term (2-3 years?). It's really difficult to tell where they are projecting Bruce at the moment. He's seen time in all three OF positions, although primarily in right. If Willits can be had for a MiL bullpen arm, then lets do it already.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 04:18 PM
Walt likes high energy overachievers; and he usually gets them when they're ready to sustain some level of "achievi-ness."

See if they'll bite on Maloney. Try to get something for nothing for once.

blumj
05-07-2008, 04:18 PM
He serves no use to the Angels, they have 2 CFs signed long term and most teams want more punch out of an OF. The Reds are actually a team that is lot more OBP challenged than SLG challenged and he would be a good fit. If the Angels want a bunch for him then in the end they will get nothing and he will rot either on their bench or AAA.

Although the Angels have a history of hanging on to prospects(although Willits has never been a top prospect) until their either succeed or lose all of their value ... much to the detriment of the major league team the last few years.
I'd be in no hurry to get rid of Willits if I were them, either. The Angels have lots of depth, and that's why they keep winning, no matter who gets injured or for how long. Now, if they could trade him for something that would help them more, then they should do it, but they sure don't seem to need very much.

KronoRed
05-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Pay whatever they ask as long as it's not Bruce or the two young pitchers, Willits would solve a ton of problems on this team.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Pay whatever they ask as long as it's not Bruce or the two young pitchers, Willits would solve a ton of problems on this team.

You'd trade Aaron Harang?

jojo
05-07-2008, 08:08 PM
Last year, the Reds had no problem doing the insane by essentially handing Hamilton CF in ST. This year, the only way Bruce could get near centerfield is to drive up from Louisville and buy a ticket.

This FO is schizoid.....

*BaseClogger*
05-07-2008, 08:09 PM
Does anybody have any insight as to what the Angels' team need(s?) are?

Chip R
05-07-2008, 08:19 PM
Last year, the Reds had no problem doing the insane by essentially handing Hamilton CF in ST. This year, the only way Bruce could get near centerfield is to drive up from Louisville and buy a ticket.

This FO is schizoid.....


Hamilton wasn't handed anything. Freel was the starting CF last year and when he started to slump/get injured, Hamilton was plugged in. Plus Hamilton had to stay on the active roster all year or be offered back to Tampa Bay while Bruce isn't even on the 40 man roster. If Hamilton could have been optioned last year, he probably would have.

jojo
05-07-2008, 08:21 PM
Does anybody have any insight as to what the Angels' team need(s?) are?

One of their biggest needs is for the Ms to retain Bavasi. Another would be for Beane to retire.

Aside from that, they need a DH and they need someone to take Garret Anderson off of their hands. Their rotation has been weakened be injury. Shortstop ain't to stellar either but all in all, they're front runners.

RedsManRick
05-07-2008, 08:23 PM
Griffey for Willits. I'd do it and pay the buyout/salary bump.

*BaseClogger*
05-07-2008, 08:28 PM
Griffey for Willits. I'd do it and pay the buyout/salary bump.

Dunn?

jojo
05-07-2008, 08:32 PM
Hamilton wasn't handed anything. Freel was the starting CF last year and when he started to slump/get injured, Hamilton was plugged in. Plus Hamilton had to stay on the active roster all year or be offered back to Tampa Bay while Bruce isn't even on the 40 man roster. If Hamilton could have been optioned last year, he probably would have.

You're right that Freel was the named CFer starting the season but Hamilton started 18 of the the Reds first 26 games in '07. The Reds clearly intended for him to get a significant number of PAs last season. It was a completely insane plan based upon roughly 50 ST at bats and it was a plan that rule 5 did not dictate.

The difference maker in the Bruce vs Hamilton situations- roughly 50 spring training at bats.

RedsManRick
05-07-2008, 08:33 PM
Dunn?

If I couldn't resign him for 3/45 and I couldn't get a better package somewhere else, yes.

Chip R
05-07-2008, 08:37 PM
You're right that Freel was the named CFer starting the season but Hamilton started 18 of the the Reds first 26 games in '07. The Reds clearly intended for him to get a significant number of PAs last season. It was a completely insane plan based upon roughly 50 ST at bats and it was a plan that rule 5 did not dictate.

The difference maker in the Bruce vs Hamilton situations- roughly 50 spring training at bats.


If Bruce had the kind of spring this season that Hamilton did last year, he'd have been starting in CF. If Hamilton hit .150 last spring they might have shipped him back to Tampa or given him the Wily Mo treatment.

RedEye
05-07-2008, 08:45 PM
If I couldn't resign him for 3/45 and I couldn't get a better package somewhere else, yes.

So getting Willits is a better value return than a bunch of draft picks when Dunn walks at the end of the year? I'm not so sure...

jojo
05-07-2008, 08:51 PM
Willits really isn't a centerfielder so he'd be a compromise there. He's basically a role player with exceptional on base skills who can also play very good left field defense.

His impact wouldn't be tremendously different IMHO than Reed Johnson (though each have unique skill sets) who the Reds could've had for free.

Willits probably wouldn't take ton to acquire but the Angels probably wouldn't give him away either. Dunn for Willits would be a head scratcher.

*BaseClogger*
05-07-2008, 08:52 PM
So getting Willits is a better value return than a bunch of draft picks when Dunn walks at the end of the year? I'm not so sure...

Yes, if Jocketty's window to win opens in 2009 and not 2010+...

IslandRed
05-07-2008, 08:52 PM
Pay whatever they ask as long as it's not Bruce or the two young pitchers, Willits would solve a ton of problems on this team.

Willits would be a useful player and a definite upgrade to what's been patrolling center field so far this year. But he isn't so good as to pay a huge premium. BP pointed out in its winter annual that his walk rate and OBP suffered in the second half last year; the book on him is, he has such an extreme lack of power, pitchers can challenge him without fear. So it was becoming increasingly difficult for him to get to ball four before strike three.

Having said that, "suffered" is relative. His OBP was still .370 after the break and he plays a decent center field. So if we can forgive his total lack of power which dragged down his second-half OPS to a level we usually mock, he'd be a good fit here, if the plan is to play Bruce in right instead of center.

jojo
05-07-2008, 08:55 PM
So getting Willits is a better value return than a bunch of draft picks when Dunn walks at the end of the year? I'm not so sure...

I'm certain------IMHO, the picks are much more valuable.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Reds should reacquire Dumatrait; he's shutting out the Giants through 5. ;)

lollipopcurve
05-07-2008, 09:40 PM
His impact wouldn't be tremendously different IMHO than Reed Johnson (though each have unique skill sets) who the Reds could've had for free.

Johnson wanted to go to Chicago. Reds had no shot.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2008, 09:43 PM
I imagine some changes will occur tomorrow for this road trip. I don't know what, could be nothing major, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Bailey get Arroyo's start.

jojo
05-07-2008, 09:47 PM
Johnson wanted to go to Chicago. Reds had no shot.

I think Johnson speaks to the market value of Willits.

fearofpopvol1
05-07-2008, 11:17 PM
I imagine some changes will occur tomorrow for this road trip. I don't know what, could be nothing major, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Bailey get Arroyo's start.

Let's hope you're wrong (this time). I'd like to see Bailey continue in AAA.

Spitball
05-08-2008, 12:27 AM
An idea I was pimping about the time everyone was opening Xmas presents

I was pushing for Willits back when he was in double A here in Little Rock. However, like Coco Crisp in Boston, the guy is a nice luxury in reserve off the bench and the Angels have little real need to trade him.