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Redman15
05-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Louisville is trailing 2-0 B3.

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 01:13 PM
Jay Bruce is 1-2 with a single, so is Chris Dickerson.

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 01:39 PM
Bats lead 5-2. Jay Bruce was intentionally walked to load the bases and Andy Phillips hit a GS to take the lead.

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 01:49 PM
Bats go up 6-2 when Kevin Barker scored on a ground out.

medford
05-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Question, does Bruce's stock go up when he's intentionally walked??:p:

Tommyjohn25
05-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Question, does Bruce's stock go up when he's intentionally walked??:p:

No. Only when he intentionally home runs. :D

Tommyjohn25
05-08-2008, 02:12 PM
BTW, he's 2-3 now. He just doubled. :thumbup:

Redman15
05-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Back to back doubles by Dickerson and Bruce 8-5 Bats.

membengal
05-08-2008, 02:21 PM
So, Bruce is good again?'

It is hard to keep up with all of this. It seems to vary between when he makes outs and when he doesn't. If only he would never make outs, he might always be good.

OesterPoster
05-08-2008, 03:03 PM
So, Bruce is good again?'

Nope, he's back to stinking again. Struck out looking in the 9th. :D

Joseph
05-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Nope, he's back to stinking again. Struck out looking in the 9th. :D

What a loser!

:D

I do think we let our emotions and opinions swing a little too much on the latest thing he's done. Bruce is big time, and he's ready, even if he doesn't walk enough and he was in a mini-slump the last week or whatever.

Aronchis
05-08-2008, 03:50 PM
Bruce probably isn't ready to succeed overly in MLB yet because he doesn't have good enough plate control. I always hoped Votto may have rubbed off on Bruce last year, but obviously Jay is still figuring it out.

No reason for promotion for the next few weeks.

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 03:51 PM
Bruce probably isn't ready to succeed overly in MLB yet because he doesn't have good enough plate control. I always hoped Votto may have rubbed off on Bruce last year, but obviously Jay is still figuring it out.

No reason for promotion for the next few weeks.

Well don't hold your breath then.... I have been hearing some rumors about Bruce to the Reds recently.

SMcGavin
05-08-2008, 04:23 PM
It is hard to keep up with all of this. It seems to vary between when he makes outs and when he doesn't. If only he would never make outs, he might always be good.

Seems simple to me, somebody go tell Bruce to never make outs. Maybe I'll go post it on his blog.

And Doug care to share those rumors?

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 04:33 PM
Seems simple to me, somebody go tell Bruce to never make outs. Maybe I'll go post it on his blog.

And Doug care to share those rumors?

Lets just say there are rumors that Jocketty and Jay's agent have had some talks about a timetable to expect Jay to the majors recently and its not in the far too distant future.

SMcGavin
05-08-2008, 04:39 PM
Lets just say there are rumors that Jocketty and Jay's agent have had some talks about a timetable to expect Jay to the majors recently and its not in the far too distant future.

Thanks for the info, Jay should be up just in time for the Reds to go fifteen games over .500 the rest of the way and steal the Central.

Not really, but having Bruce and Votto both in the lineup will make the games more exciting to watch when Volquez and Cueto aren't pitching. Let's get Jay some experience so he's ready to mash in 2009.

Spring~Fields
05-08-2008, 04:57 PM
Bruce probably isn't ready to succeed overly in MLB yet because he doesn't have good enough plate control.

Compared to whose plate control and what the Reds have ?
Patterson -
.200 .260 .421 .681
vs. Left .083 .154 .083 .237
vs. Right .217 .275 .470 .745
Freel -
.304 .347 .362 .709
vs. Left-- .344 .382 .438 .820
vs. Right .270 .317 .297 .614
Hairston -
Small Sample:
.345 .367 .517 .884
vs. Left .333 .400 .556 .956
vs. Right .350 .350 .500 .850
Bruce -
.325 .353 .548 .900
vs Left-- .333 .317 .513 .830
vs Right .322 .367 .563 .931

I would have to risk it with Bruces Plate Control
Bruce
Runners On .389 .406 .630 1.036
Scoring Position .313 .357 .563 .920
Patterson
Runners On .184 .256 .342 .598
Scoring Position .190 .308 .429 .737
Freel
Runners On .360 .393 .440 .833
Scoring Position .471 .444 .588 1.032
Hairston
Small sample
Runners On .455 .455 .818 1.273
Scoring Position .429 .429 .429 .858

Matt700wlw
05-08-2008, 05:03 PM
Wait...don't bring actual facts into the equation....

membengal
05-08-2008, 05:28 PM
Seems simple to me, somebody go tell Bruce to never make outs. Maybe I'll go post it on his blog.

Eureka!

To his blog!

dougdirt
05-08-2008, 07:04 PM
Matt Klinker is taking the mound for the Dragons.
Daniel Guerrero is on the mound for Sarasota.

Frazier bats 3rd for Sarasota and Mesoraco bats 6th for Dayton. Logan Parker also is playing tonight for Dayton at DH.

11larkin11
05-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Valaika also starting for the Lookouts tonight.

11larkin11
05-08-2008, 07:08 PM
And, of course, rain delays Mesoraco's debut again in Dayton.

11larkin11
05-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Frazier with a sac fly to give the Reds a 1-0 lead.

11larkin11
05-08-2008, 07:26 PM
Doug forgot to mention that Frazier IS starting in LF.

Patrick Bateman
05-08-2008, 07:38 PM
[SIZE=2]Compared to whose plate control and what the Reds have ?


The point was that he wasn't overly ready to contribute in the majors. Since when is that standard, being better than Patterson and Freel? The Reds' timetable should be based on what will make Bruce the best longterm player he can be, not based on a weak MLB standard.

Bruce is probably ready to be the best CF on our team, but at the same time, I think his lack of plate discipline will lead to more struggles than most are anticipating. I'd rather he refine his game at AAA first, but at the same time, maybe he needs to see some major league pitching to see the importance of laying off the bad pitches.

Redman15
05-08-2008, 08:43 PM
Hello Chattanooga!! Valaika homers in his 1st at bat.

HokieRed
05-08-2008, 09:02 PM
Great night for my deep sleeper, Guerrero. 7 shutout innings, 6 K's.

Superdude
05-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Valaika must have broken an arm on the plane ride to Sarasota last season and was such a gamer he played through it. Who thought he'd have an OPS pushing 1.000 right now?

Redman15
05-08-2008, 09:12 PM
Sarasota wins 3-2!!!!!!

Tommyjohn25
05-08-2008, 09:22 PM
Lets just say there are rumors that Jocketty and Jay's agent have had some talks about a timetable to expect Jay to the majors recently and its not in the far too distant future.

This is what I've been waiting to hear!

Spring~Fields
05-08-2008, 09:24 PM
The point was that he wasn't overly ready to contribute in the majors. Since when is that standard, being better than Patterson and Freel? The Reds' timetable should be based on what will make Bruce the best longterm player he can be, not based on a weak MLB standard.


Define "overly ready" please.

Can you tell me how they will measure that or discern that? Bruce has already put up Votto type numbers throughout the minors, how did they ever decide that Votto "was the best longterm player he can be"? I simply don't know, perhaps you can tell me. How many knocks were there against Votto before he came up? Were they valid?

If one can measure that Bruce is equal to or greater than the current major league talent that is considered ready for MLB, then comparison judgement would be a reasonable standard in comparison. Where the latter cannot be measured or compared, if so what and how?

Standard - level of quality accepted as norm: a level of quality or excellence that is accepted as the norm or by which actual attainments are judged

Bruce already exceeds the standard for many current Reds players.

medford
05-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Dayton is trailing 6-5 in bottom of the 6th. Devon has thus far debuted (sp?) to a tune of 1-2 w/ a walk and an RBI.

Screwball
05-08-2008, 09:31 PM
Valaika singled on a line drive to LF in his 2nd AB. He's 2-2 tonight.

Lookouts trail 5-2 after 3, though.

Grande Donkey
05-08-2008, 09:35 PM
Dayton is trailing 6-5 in bottom of the 6th. Devon has thus far debuted (sp?) to a tune of 1-2 w/ a walk and an RBI.Not a bad debut for him or Valaika. Good to hear.

Cedric
05-08-2008, 09:49 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if a player with the skill set of Jay Bruce would put up better numbers in the Majors. Sounds crazy but has some merit. The truly elite just push their game up another level when they are facing the best pitching. He's shown the ability to go deep in counts and right now is probably swinging at pitches he normally wouldn't because he's so much better than AAA pitching. Call up Bruce and stick him in CF. If the kid is truly an elite talent he will shine. How many stud hitters have been rushed and not turned out? I'd say it's WAY less than pitchers and usually it's because the players peripheral numbers in the minors weren't looked at enough. He's ready, IMO.

BigRed07
05-08-2008, 09:49 PM
Logan Parker homered in his 1st game back in Dayton on rehab.

Spring~Fields
05-08-2008, 10:10 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if a player with the skill set of Jay Bruce would put up better numbers in the Majors. Sounds crazy but has some merit. The truly elite just push their game up another level when they are facing the best pitching. He's shown the ability to go deep in counts and right now is probably swinging at pitches he normally wouldn't because he's so much better than AAA pitching. Call up Bruce and stick him in CF. If the kid is truly an elite talent he will shine. How many stud hitters have been rushed and not turned out? I'd say it's WAY less than pitchers and usually it's because the players peripheral numbers in the minors weren't looked at enough. He's ready, IMO.

Yes Bruce has stepped up at every level along the way, and sometimes facing the better pitching they hit better, not only has he stepped up in hitting but with fielding also. The only thing stopping Bruce was a very bad decision to bring Patterson to the Reds team and to give Patterson that kind of contract when he couldn't find a job and we certainly have seen why.

roborobj
05-08-2008, 10:18 PM
They walked him in his third at bat.

Not a bad debut for him or Valaika. Good to hear.

fearofpopvol1
05-08-2008, 10:49 PM
Bruce is probably ready to be the best CF on our team, but at the same time, I think his lack of plate discipline will lead to more struggles than most are anticipating. I'd rather he refine his game at AAA first, but at the same time, maybe he needs to see some major league pitching to see the importance of laying off the bad pitches.

I agree 1,000% with this.

Screwball
05-08-2008, 11:00 PM
With Michael Griffin on 1st, Valaika grounds one to the shortstop. Griffin's out at 2nd but Valaika reaches 1st safely. He's 2-3 with a walk so far, and will get one more AB.

Lookouts still trail, but Cody Strait homers to make it 6-4 after 7.

Screwball
05-08-2008, 11:22 PM
Valaika struck out swinging to end the 8th. 2-4 with a walk, HR, and RBI in his AA debut. Not bad, not bad at all.

Lookouts still behind 6-4 as we head to the bottom of the 9th.

ETA: Lookouts lost 6-4.

Patrick Bateman
05-09-2008, 02:51 AM
Define "overly ready" please.

Can you tell me how they will measure that or discern that? Bruce has already put up Votto type numbers throughout the minors, how did they ever decide that Votto "was the best longterm player he can be"? I simply don't know, perhaps you can tell me. How many knocks were there against Votto before he came up? Were they valid?

Votto went on a monster tear after a slow start to the season. He put together numerous very strong months before getting the call. Bruce has not done that this season. Votto played great, merited a call-up, and continued hitting. Bruce on the other hand struggled in ST, and has a medicore start to the season. Longterm that's fairly meaningless.... but right now it indicates that he still has work to do in the minors.

I'll define "overly ready" as being too good for AAA competition, as having very little to learn in the minors.


If one can measure that Bruce is equal to or greater than the current major league talent that is considered ready for MLB, then comparison judgement would be a reasonable standard in comparison. Where the latter cannot be measured or compared, if so what and how?

Standard - level of quality accepted as norm: a level of quality or excellence that is accepted as the norm or by which actual attainments are judged

Bruce already exceeds the standard for many current Reds players

My point is that Bruce needs to be held to his own standard. He's too important to jerk around. IMO, he should come up when he has shown he's too good for the level of competition. His well documented on base issues are enough to merit more seasoning. Having better on base ability than a couple of hackers doesn't excite me. It's about allowing Bruce to be as good as he can potentially be.... not as good as Corey Patterson. I'm not arguing that he wouldn't outperform those guys right now.... I firmly believe that he could given the chance. But long term, I'd rather he crush AAA pitching before making the majors (for developmental purposes).

Spring~Fields
05-09-2008, 08:22 AM
Votto went on a monster tear after a slow start to the season. He put together numerous very strong months before getting the call. Bruce has not done that this season. Votto played great, merited a call-up, and continued hitting. Bruce on the other hand struggled in ST, and has a medicore start to the season. Longterm that's fairly meaningless.... but right now it indicates that he still has work to do in the minors.

I'll define "overly ready" as being too good for AAA competition, as having very little to learn in the minors.



My point is that Bruce needs to be held to his own standard. He's too important to jerk around. IMO, he should come up when he has shown he's too good for the level of competition. His well documented on base issues are enough to merit more seasoning. Having better on base ability than a couple of hackers doesn't excite me. It's about allowing Bruce to be as good as he can potentially be.... not as good as Corey Patterson. I'm not arguing that he wouldn't outperform those guys right now.... I firmly believe that he could given the chance. But long term, I'd rather he crush AAA pitching before making the majors (for developmental purposes).

Thank you

Good points.

Screwball
05-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Bruce on the other hand struggled in ST, and has a medicore start to the season.


I'm not sure I'd call a .320/.357/.541/.898 start mediocre, but your point is well taken. His IsoD (.037) should probably significantly improve before he gets the call, but I'd really like to see a guy like Jay Bruce up with the Reds. He may not walk a ton, but he works the count, and when he gets a pitch to drive, it looks as though he just doesn't miss it.

I think we'll see Bruce called up sooner rather than later. In an interview Daugherty had with Jocketty on Tuesday, Doc asked him when Jay Bruce was going to be called up. Jocketty said (paraphrasing) it won't tomorrow or the day after, but it'll be soon. My guess is we'll see him in Cincinnati before the end of the month.

Patrick Bateman
05-09-2008, 02:00 PM
I'm not sure I'd call a .320/.357/.541/.898 start mediocre, but your point is well taken. His IsoD (.037) should probably significantly improve before he gets the call, but I'd really like to see a guy like Jay Bruce up with the Reds. He may not walk a ton, but he works the count, and when he gets a pitch to drive, it looks as though he just doesn't miss it.

I think we'll see Bruce called up sooner rather than later. In an interview Daugherty had with Jocketty on Tuesday, Doc asked him when Jay Bruce was going to be called up. Jocketty said (paraphrasing) it won't tomorrow or the day after, but it'll be soon. My guess is we'll see him in Cincinnati before the end of the month.

What I mean is mediocre for him. That line is clearly not indicitive of his skill level. It's fine and all, but it's shown that he's had some fairly important plate discipline problems.

Bringing him up to Cincy could have some benefits to Bruce too, do't get me wrong. Cedric had some good points, and I mentioned earlier that is might give Bruce a chance to learn the importance of plate discipline against major league pitching. It's my personal preference to keep him in the minors for a little while to work through his flaws, but I can see why many view it as a good idea to bring him up.

Superdude
05-09-2008, 03:20 PM
Cedric had some good points, and I mentioned earlier that is might give Bruce a chance to learn the importance of plate discipline against major league pitching.

That's an okay plan, but I would demote him and make him spend all his waking hours with Tonys Guitierrez... .337/.464/.446