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Matt700wlw
05-08-2008, 07:11 PM
From Fay:

Free agents, 13 of them

Much has been made about the fact that Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn are free agents after the season. In Griffey's case, the Reds hold an option. But they can let him go with a $4 million parting gift.

But 11 other players on the current 25-man roster are free agents as well. That's the most in baseball. Here's the list:

David Ross
Javy Valentin
Paul Bako
Scott Hatteberg
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Corey Patterson
David Weathers
Jeremy Affeldt
Kent Mercker
Mike Lincoln
Josh Fogg

Ross also has an option -- for $3.5 million.

Walt Jocketty is going to have a chance to makeover the roster. Those 13 players accounted for $43 million of the $74.1 million payroll.

But the veterans under contract for next year all get good raises, so the Reds are on the hook for $46.5 million for six players:

Bronson Arroyo $9.5 million
Francisco Cordero $12 million
Aaron Harang $11 million
Brandon Phillips $4.75 million
Ryan Freel $4 million
Alex Gonzalez $5.375 million

I hate to write about money and contracts, but this all affects what the Reds can and cannot do.

Hopefully, this post will change the current debate, which I'm not entirely sure is about

Spring~Fields
05-08-2008, 07:25 PM
A lot of those free agents might have to take a cut in pay if they can find a job to begin with.

reds44
05-08-2008, 07:26 PM
$20 mil tied up in Gonzalez, Freel, and Bronson next year.

That can't happen.

Kc61
05-08-2008, 08:17 PM
$20 mil tied up in Gonzalez, Freel, and Bronson next year.

That can't happen.

Why not?

Freel at $4 million is a bit rich but not much. He's a borderline starting player, certainly an excellent utility guy.

Arroyo led the team in quality starts last year. Bad start this year shouldn't write him off.

Gonzo is hurt. Guys get hurt.

RedsManRick
05-08-2008, 08:36 PM
Assuming Dunn is gone and Junior is bought out, how much money is committed and what does the roster look like? Where are the holes to be filled?

edabbs44
05-08-2008, 08:43 PM
Assuming Dunn is gone and Junior is bought out, how much money is committed and what does the roster look like? Where are the holes to be filled?

Do the math.


But the veterans under contract for next year all get good raises, so the Reds are on the hook for $46.5 million for six players:

Bronson Arroyo $9.5 million
Francisco Cordero $12 million
Aaron Harang $11 million
Brandon Phillips $4.75 million
Ryan Freel $4 million
Alex Gonzalez $5.375 million

Catcher is a gaping hole. So are 2 OF spots, unless Freel is the CFer. The pen. They have to get a middle of the order power bat somewhere, probably one of the OF spots.

fearofpopvol1
05-08-2008, 08:43 PM
A more interesting question is who do you think the Reds will keep/resign and who do YOU want to see them keep/resign.

I'm probably in the minority, but I really think the Reds should consider resigning Affedlt. He's looked pretty solid to me. Maybe a 2-3 year deal depending on how the rest of the season plays out. Mike Lincoln is someone I'd consider. He's looked pretty good, but I'm less sold on him right now. Everyone else can go as far as I'm concerned, though CF needs some serious addressing.

You'd have to think the Reds will plan to resign either Ross or Bako, but not both. I'd say Javy is a goner.

GAC
05-08-2008, 09:07 PM
David Ross
Javy Valentin

One of these two is gone IMO

Paul Bako - resigned

Scott Hatteberg -gone (traded by deadline possibly)

Jerry Hairston Jr. - resigned. He's cheap

Corey Patterson - gone

David Weathers - gone

Jeremy Affeldt - they should resign

Kent Mercker - gone

Mike Lincoln - they should resign

Josh Fogg - gone

You've also got guys like Belisle, Bray, Coffey, and Majewski, whose contracts are up at season's end. Also we are off the hook on Stanton for 3 mil.

http://www.mlb4u.com/teamcontract.php?team=Cincinnati%20Reds

Jocketty has some monetary wiggle room after the season, that is for sure.

Redhook
05-08-2008, 09:09 PM
My major concern is getting a right-handed bat to take Dunn's spot. Bruce will fill RF, but they desperately need a RH power bat to play left and stabilize the lineup. I was really hoping the Reds would be able to get Matt Kemp, but he's heating up so I don't see that happening.

Center Field is a concern too, but they can get away with an average one with Freel and spare parts. It's not ideal, but replacing Dunn and getting a catcher should be the #1 priority at this time.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-08-2008, 09:14 PM
2009

C: Hanigan and Bako
1b: Votto
2b: Phillips
SS: AGon
3B: EE
LF: Dunn (re-signed)
CF: Patterson or Stubbs
RF: Bruce
Utility: Kepp (250-400 Ab's)

Bench: Freel (trade if possible), Dickerson or Strait, Rosales, FA

SP: Harang, Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Arroyo
BP: Cordero, Burton, Bray, Affeldt (re-sign), Roenicke, Belisle, FA

RedsManRick
05-08-2008, 09:17 PM
By my math, we're at ~$60M committed for 2009. Here's what looks to be our needs, with possible in house options in parenthesis:

- Catcher & Backup Catcher (Hannigan)
- Left Field & Right Field (Dickerson)
- Backup 1B/3B (Rosales, Gutierrez)
- Bullpen x3 (Coffey, McBeth, Herrera, Pelland, Maloney, Thompson, Roenicke, Viola, Ramon Ramirez)

I think our biggest weakness right now is corner OF. Outside of Danny Dorn, I don't see much that makes sense. There might really be a logic to pursuing a 3B and moving EE to the OF if his throwing problems don't get better. I really don't like the FA crop, so I'd be looking acquire a bat, particularly a high OBP top of the order option like Reggie Willits. I think we've got enough power to get by (Votto, EE, Bruce, Phillips) if we can get rid of those OBP holes. Signing Dunn, if possible, to a 4/60 sort of deal makes all kinds of sense if you can't acquire other reasonable corner OF options via trade. A deal bigger than that could prove prohibitive given our other commitments.

Belisle is admittedly a stretch. I think we'd be wise to trade him if at all possible to somebody who has a rotation spot for him that makes a $3M paycheck worth it. He's a guy I'm packaging in almost any trade because he value to us is less than it is to most other teams.



POS NAME SAL ARB
C
1B Votto $ 0.45 (1+)
2B Phillips $ 4.75
SS Gonzalez $ 5.375
3B Encarnacion $ 1.50 (3+)
LF
CF Bruce $ 0.40 (1+)
RF
BN Freel $ 4.00
BN Hopper $ 0.45 (2+)
BN Keppinger $ 0.45 (2+)
BN
BN

SP Harang $11.00
SP Arroyo $ 9.50
SP Volquez $ 0.45 (1+)
SP Cueto $ 0.40 (1+)
SP Bailey $ 0.40 (1+)
LR Belisle $ 3.00 (4+)
MR
MR
MR
MR Bray $ 0.45 (1+)
SU Burton $ 0.50 (2+)
CL Cordero $12.00

BO Griffey $ 4.00
BO Stanton $ 0.50
BO Castro $ 0.10

Will M
05-08-2008, 09:23 PM
By my math, we're at ~$60M committed for 2009. Here's what looks to be our needs, with possible in house options in parenthesis:

- Catcher & Backup Catcher (Hannigan)
- Left Field & Right Field (Dickerson)
- Backup 1B/3B (Rosales, Gutierrez)
- Bullpen x3 (Coffey, McBeth, Herrera, Pelland, Maloney, Thompson, Roenicke, Viola, Ramon Ramirez)

I think our biggest weakness right now is corner OF. Outside of Danny Dorn, I don't see much that makes sense. There might really be a logic to pursuing a 3B and moving EE to the OF if his throwing problems don't get better. I really don't like the FA crop, so I'd be looking acquire a bat, particularly a high OBP top of the order option like Reggie Willits. I think we've got enough power to get by (Votto, EE, Bruce, Phillips) if we can get rid of those OBP holes. Signing Dunn, if possible, to a 4/60 sort of deal makes all kinds of sense if you can't acquire other reasonable corner OF options via trade. A deal bigger than that could prove prohibitive given our other commitments.



C
1B Votto $ 0.45 (1+)
2B Phillips $ 4.75
SS Gonazlez $ 5.375
3B Encarnacion $ 1.50 (3+)
LF
CF Bruce $ 0.40 (1+)
RF
BN Freel $ 4.00
BN Hopper $ 0.45 (2+)
BN Keppinger $ 0.45 (2+)
BN
BN

SP Harang $11.00
SP Arroyo $ 9.50
SP Volquez $ 0.45 (1+)
SP Cueto $ 0.40 (1+)
SP Bailey $ 0.40 (1+)
LR Belisle $ 3.00 (arb)
MR
MR
MR
MR Bray $ 0.45
SU Burton $ 0.50
CL Cordero $12.00

BO Griffey $ 4.00
BO Stanton $ 0.50
BO Castro $ 0.10

Generally agree.

I do think it is too early to be deciding on whether guys like Bako or Lincoln will be here in 2009.

Belisle better pitch a whole lot better than he has otherwise he is released/traded.

IF Rosales has a good year in AAA and EE's poor throwing continues EE could be our 2009 LF.

Finding a RF/CF ( depending on where Bruce plays ) somewhere is key. The free agents for 2009 are a weak lot.

SirFelixCat
05-08-2008, 09:40 PM
I agree with RMR with 2 exceptions. I think the Reds look to move Gonzo if possible as Kepp has shown he is as viable (granted the range isn't the same, but it's close given his better bat) at a whole lot cheaper.

And Belisle can't be the answer at LR. I hope the Reds finally cut bait w/ him.

RedsManRick
05-08-2008, 10:08 PM
The point I really wanted to make, and think I have, is that it's not like the Reds are going to shed a ton of salary for 2009. When people say "resign Affeldt", "resign Lincoln", etc., I want them to realize what base they're adding to.

The Reds opened 2008 with a $74M payroll. Chances are it's not going to increase significantly beyond that without an increase in revenue. Give or take a Matt Belisle, the Reds will start 2009 about $15M short of that. If the Reds resign Dunn, they have no extra money to fill the remaining holes in the roster. If they don't resign Dunn, they have in the neighborhood of $15M to fill catcher and the corner OF spots, where no reasonable in house options exist -- and a have something in the neighborhood of 45 runs above replacement to account for.

Excepting major trades, there are three glaring inefficiencies in our roster by my count.

1.) Ryan Freel. Negative runs on the bases. Mediocre defense. No power. Use Hopper if you want a 5th OF who can play CF.
2.) Alex Gonzalez. He simply isn't enough better than Keppinger to merit over $5M more than him on our roster.
3.) Matt Belisle. I think he's worth $3M. I maintain that he can be a 4.80 ERA starter for 180 IP. That's easily worth $3M when you consider sub replacement alternatives. I don't think he's worth $3M to the Reds. If you pencil in Cueto and Volquez, we have at least Bailey and Maloney to compete for the 5th spot, with some sleepers behind them.

Get rid of those three for whatever return you can -- hopefully something of value. That gives you enough money to resign Dunn AND pursue options elsewhere in FA or taking on salary in a trade.

bucksfan2
05-08-2008, 10:15 PM
David Ross - Option will be picked up

Javy Valentin - Good bye

Paul Bako - I would resign

Scott Hatteberg - Should be traded

Jerry Hairston Jr. - Paul Janish/Chris Dickerson

Corey Patterson - Chris Dickerson

David Weathers - Bye Bye

Jeremy Affeldt - Should be traded. Bill Bray can replace

Kent Mercker - Career's over

Mike Lincoln - I would resign.

Josh Fogg - Should be traded

In all reality after Jr and Dunn the reds don't really have any above replacement level players that they are losing. IMO Harriston Jr. may be the only guy who would be tought to replace. His versitility and if he continues to hit would be tough to replace.

Benihana
05-08-2008, 10:23 PM
2009

C: Hanigan and Bako
1b: Votto
2b: Phillips
SS: AGon
3B: EE
LF: Dunn (re-signed)
CF: Patterson or Stubbs
RF: Bruce
Utility: Kepp (250-400 Ab's)

Bench: Freel (trade if possible), Dickerson or Strait, Rosales, FA

SP: Harang, Volquez, Bailey, Cueto, Arroyo
BP: Cordero, Burton, Bray, Affeldt (re-sign), Roenicke, Belisle, FA

A few things:

1. Drew Stubbs will not sniff Cincinnati in 2009. He'll be lucky to be in Louisville.
2. I wouldn't mind this, although it reeks of status quo. My gut feeling is that Jocketty is going to give this team more of a makeover. While I wouldn't be shocked to see Dunn back (Castellini's choice) the two most likely positions to get a makeover would be catcher (Walt likes the defensive types) and CF. I think we'll see some fresh blood in CF next season.
3. If they could jettison Gonzalez, that would be great. Kepp has proven that he can be a starting SS, so there's no need to pay Gonzo $5 MM+
4. While I would like to re-sign Affeldt, my guess is he'd prefer to go somewhere where he has a chance to start.
5. No reason for more free agents in the 'pen. I think between Roenicke, Pelland, McBeth, Herrera, etc. one or two guys will emerge to fill those slots.

jojo
05-08-2008, 10:26 PM
From Fay:

Free agents, 13 of them

Much has been made about the fact that Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn are free agents after the season. In Griffey's case, the Reds hold an option. But they can let him go with a $4 million parting gift.

But 11 other players on the current 25-man roster are free agents as well. That's the most in baseball. Here's the list:

David Ross
Javy Valentin
Paul Bako
Scott Hatteberg
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Corey Patterson
David Weathers
Jeremy Affeldt
Kent Mercker
Mike Lincoln
Josh Fogg

Ross also has an option -- for $3.5 million.

Walt Jocketty is going to have a chance to makeover the roster. Those 13 players accounted for $43 million of the $74.1 million payroll.

But the veterans under contract for next year all get good raises, so the Reds are on the hook for $46.5 million for six players:

Bronson Arroyo $9.5 million
Francisco Cordero $12 million
Aaron Harang $11 million
Brandon Phillips $4.75 million
Ryan Freel $4 million
Alex Gonzalez $5.375 million

I hate to write about money and contracts, but this all affects what the Reds can and cannot do.

Hopefully, this post will change the current debate, which I'm not entirely sure is about

The Reds are currently 14th out of 16 in the NL in attendance..... Payroll might be suffering a little shrinkage next season that has nothing to do with saying goodbye to the guys above (though some might argue that it has everything to do with the guys on the list above)....

REDREAD
05-09-2008, 12:45 AM
$20 mil tied up in Gonzalez, Freel, and Bronson next year.

That can't happen.

Wayne's legacy, along with all the other money he's wasted.

REDREAD
05-09-2008, 12:48 AM
Why not?

Freel at $4 million is a bit rich but not much. He's a borderline starting player, certainly an excellent utility guy.

Arroyo led the team in quality starts last year. Bad start this year shouldn't write him off.

Gonzo is hurt. Guys get hurt.

Gonzo was a bad signing the day it happened. Poor risk.
Freel did not have to be extended. The Reds could've gone year to year with him.

I can forgive the Arroyo extension. Risky, but at least it had high upside. Freel and AGon were clearly horrible risks in contrast.
Still, the Arroyo deal did backfire, and it's Wayne' responsiblity.

That 19-20 million tied up in dead weight could've filled in a lot of holes next year. Thank goodness a lot of Wayne's bad contracts roll off after this year.

REDREAD
05-09-2008, 12:53 AM
The Reds opened 2008 with a $74M payroll. Chances are it's not going to increase significantly beyond that without an increase in revenue. Give or take a Matt Belisle, the Reds will start 2009 about $15M short of that. If the Reds resign Dunn, they have no extra money to fill the remaining holes in the roster.

Yes, that's a pretty sobering reality.

That's all the more reason the Reds need to figure out what they have in Coffey, Bray, Belisle, Maj, etc. Those guys are going to be out of options next year (IIRC) and are going to be getting increases.. Not huge increases, but increases. Right now, I think it would be insane to keep Belisle next year, even at 2 million. Yet at the same time, give Belisle innings this year to give yourself more information to base the decision on.

RedsManRick
05-09-2008, 12:56 AM
Yes, that's a pretty sobering reality.

That's all the more reason the Reds need to figure out what they have in Coffey, Bray, Belisle, Maj, etc. Those guys are going to be out of options next year (IIRC) and are going to be getting increases.. Not huge increases, but increases. Right now, I think it would be insane to keep Belisle next year, even at 2 million. Yet at the same time, give Belisle innings this year to give yourself more information to base the decision on.

I agree regarding Belisle completely. I've had the came compliant about Todd Coffey. Stop wasting innings on a known mediocre-at-best guy like Fogg (or Stanton) and start giving opportunities to the guys you need know about. They probably aren't going to be any worse, they might be better, and in any case, you'll want to know they are so you can make an informed decision about their future when the time comes.

Ron Madden
05-09-2008, 04:22 AM
From everything I hear on 700 WLW radio, the Reds can save a ton of cash by letting a couple of our most productive go.

The Reds could then sign four or five more unproductive players with all that money saved.

:(

bucksfan2
05-09-2008, 09:43 AM
Gonzo was a bad signing the day it happened. Poor risk.
Freel did not have to be extended. The Reds could've gone year to year with him.

I can forgive the Arroyo extension. Risky, but at least it had high upside. Freel and AGon were clearly horrible risks in contrast.
Still, the Arroyo deal did backfire, and it's Wayne' responsiblity.

That 19-20 million tied up in dead weight could've filled in a lot of holes next year. Thank goodness a lot of Wayne's bad contracts roll off after this year.

I disagree with you on the Gonzo contract. I liked the deal then and I still don't hate it. You can't forsee a compound fracture a year and a half after you sign a deal. In all reality Gonzo is still the only major league SS the reds have. Keppy can play the position but his defense is average to less than average.

The Arroyo extention was ok. Maybe it was too early but then again when you finally get pitching you have to do what you can to keep it. I think he rebounds this year. He always seems to go through funks during a season.

The only contract that will haunt the reds next season is Freel. He should be gone this season if anyone will take him.

lollipopcurve
05-09-2008, 09:44 AM
the Reds need to figure out what they have in Coffey, Bray, Belisle, Maj, etc.

They should have a good idea by now. Coffey's audition was over a while ago.

Raisor
05-09-2008, 11:06 AM
I disagree with you on the Gonzo contract. I liked the deal then and I still don't hate it. You can't forsee a compound fracture a year and a half after you sign a deal. In all reality Gonzo is still the only major league SS the reds have. .

The deal was bad, even if Gonzo had been playing every game since then.

You think the offense is bad now, just add another guy with a sub career .300 OBP to it, and take out Kepp's .330.

You do not give the Gonzo's of the world three year guarenteed contracts.

REDREAD
05-09-2008, 11:30 AM
I disagree with you on the Gonzo contract. I liked the deal then and I still don't hate it. You can't forsee a compound fracture a year and a half after you sign a deal. In all reality Gonzo is still the only major league SS the reds have. Keppy can play the position but his defense is average to less than average.
.

My thought is that Wayne himself found two better stopgap SS than Gonzo.. He fought Kepp and Harris. If you need a stopgap SS, which the Reds did need, get a minimum salary guy that you can cut when something better comes along.

Don't get a clearly declining guy like Gonzo and give him a 3 year contract (I think it was 12 million? don't recall). Sure, we could not have forseen Gonzo injury, but he wasn't that great last year. Sure, the HRs were nice, but little else was. Not a good use of money. IMO, that was a big problem Wayne had. He'd invest a lot of cash and years in guys that were mediocre at best.

That's why I can forgive the Arroyo contract, even though it probably won't work out. At least Arroyo was a potential difference maker. Gonzo never was. Even in a best case scenerio, Gonzo is not a difference maker. Even those that defended the signing say he was a stop gap. Don't waste all that money on a stopgap. Smarter GMs that were in a similiar situation play a kid at SS with a good glove and just accept the loss in offense. Gonzo didn't really give us good defense, and his offense was nothing special, beyond the occasional GAB aided HR.

REDREAD
05-09-2008, 11:36 AM
They should have a good idea by now. Coffey's audition was over a while ago.

That's fair enough. If Jocketty is convinced Coffey is not ML material, then I have no problem keeping Coffey at Louisville.

The thing is, according to the list, we have 5 pitchers that are pending FAs.
We are probably going to be forced to use some of the marginal guys that are in now AAA next year (throw Belisle in that pool as well).

Thus, I think it kind of behooves the Reds to figure out which of the bubble AAA guys are worth keeping, and I think part of that involves giving them ML playing time.

I still think Coffey has potential value as a middle reliever type guy. Maybe not the setup man. He seems to pitch better when the game is not on the line. That's not so bad. The team needs guys to pitch the middle innings as well. He's still going to be relatively inexpensive next year. IMO, he's got better upside than Belisle.

Nugget
05-09-2008, 12:01 PM
The problem with Coffey is that if the game isn't on the line his pitching sometimes puts the game on the line. I think its over for him at the REDS - he just hasn't been able to sort it out here and with the coaches here. Maybe a new start somewhere else will do him good.

While Keppinger has a better bat Gonzo is the better shortstop. I don't think Gonzo was ever signed as a stop gap shortstop. He had personal issues last year and is injured this year. Unforseeable and it appears the fans have turned on him the same as Junior.

Kc61
05-09-2008, 12:02 PM
Gonzo was a bad signing the day it happened. Poor risk.
Freel did not have to be extended. The Reds could've gone year to year with him.

I can forgive the Arroyo extension. Risky, but at least it had high upside. Freel and AGon were clearly horrible risks in contrast.
Still, the Arroyo deal did backfire, and it's Wayne' responsiblity.

That 19-20 million tied up in dead weight could've filled in a lot of holes next year. Thank goodness a lot of Wayne's bad contracts roll off after this year.


Gonzo hit 16 home runs last year and OPSd .793 which is not bad for a shortstop playing under the pressures this guy had. Nobody could have foreseen his injury this year. I'm a Keppinger fan, but Gonzo covers a lot more ground. With Gonzo, the Reds will have more double plays and a superior defensive infield. And he hits for pretty good power in hitting friendly parks like GABP.

As for Freel, when the Reds signed him he was coming off a good year. He was not the best risk because of the type player he is, prone to injury. But -- even today -- he is the only semblance of a lead off hitter on this team, plays almost every position, and gets hot at bat once in a while. He was hurt last year so it is common for folks to act like he is a scrub, but I think that it was a fair risk to sign him for two years, although I think the amount was a tad high.

Actually, the fairest criticism is Arroyo because he is the only one earning a major salary for several years. I guess the Reds brass thought his success was sustainable, I remember some folks disagreeing on here.

Mostly, though, I disagree with the concept of lumping salaries of players not doing well and saying that the GM "wasted" that money. How about the starting performances the GM gets for very little money? It evens out. I don't want a GM who is gun shy because fans may criticize him if guys don't pan out.

And the whole article that the Reds have all these free agents and can "remake" their roster is a bit thin to me. Most of these guys are back up players who fill out the roster. If the Reds don't re-sign them, their spots will be taken by similar back up major league players. The issue for this team is with the major salary slots which are Dunn, Griffey, Arroyo, Harang, and now Phillips and Cordero. Those guys need to produce (some are) and, if free agents, the Reds need to focus hard on the decision whether to retain them.

GAC
05-09-2008, 08:52 PM
The point I really wanted to make, and think I have, is that it's not like the Reds are going to shed a ton of salary for 2009. When people say "resign Affeldt", "resign Lincoln", etc., I want them to realize what base they're adding to.

The Reds opened 2008 with a $74M payroll. Chances are it's not going to increase significantly beyond that without an increase in revenue. Give or take a Matt Belisle, the Reds will start 2009 about $15M short of that.

They can shed quite a bit of salary going into '09 by my estimation.

If they let Dunn and Jr walk, that equals 21.2 mil. The 4 mil buyout on Jr is a tradeoff for the Stanton and Castro monies coming off the books at season's end.

Jocketty, obviously, is going to sit down and evaluate all of this (I hope). But with the above, and looking at the list (below) of guy's whose contracts/commitments run out at season's end, he can be in a position to have money to spend.

It's not so much about increasing payroll as much as replacing it. And that is why Jocketty got the job IMO.

I'd like them to resign Dunn; but I won't be upset if he walks. His defense is replaceable (LOL), and why can't youngsters like Votto and Bruce, offset his offense? Especially if our pitching continues to improve. Why invest significant more monies in a guy (15-16 mil/yr?) if a manager like Baker is not going to take advantage of the guy's abilities, and IMHO, misuse/miscast the guy in the lineup? It's a waste. And don't be surprised if Dunn is allowed to walk that Baker didn't have any "influence" in that decision. ;)


Griffey 8.2
Dunn 13
Weathers 3.3
Stanton 3
Ross 2.5
Hatteberg 1.85
Valentin 1.3
Affeldt 3
Belisle 1.25
Castro 1
Coffey .9
Fogg 1
Bako .75
Patterson 3
Encarnacion .45
Mercker .6
Lincoln .55
Hairston .5
Hopper .4
Keppinger .4
Burton .39
Livingston .39
Bray .38

Total 48.11

*BaseClogger*
05-10-2008, 01:44 AM
Gonzo hit 16 home runs last year and OPSd .793 which is not bad for a shortstop playing under the pressures this guy had.

I have stressed this several times--OBP correlates better to scoring runs than SLG and therefore it is important to look at both instead of only tossing out OPS. OPS is a great improvement over BA, but you still need to be careful when using it because it doesn't indicate all the necessary information. Player X with a 800 OPS of .400/.400 (OBP/SLG) is much more valuable than Player Y with a 800 OPS of .300/.500. I find it to be much more informative to instead include the holy trinity of hitting stats (BA/OBP/SLG). All said, yes, AGon was a good hitting SS last season. I just think Keppinger's OPS makeup with more OBP is more valuable, especially to this team.


I'm a Keppinger fan, but Gonzo covers a lot more ground. With Gonzo, the Reds will have more double plays and a superior defensive infield. And he hits for pretty good power in hitting friendly parks like GABP.

This is definitely debatable. Perhaps you feel AGon will have better range than Keppinger when he comes back, but I have my doubts. He is getting older and has been plagued by injuries. In addition, Kepp had a better RF in 2007 on the same team with the same pitching staff. That paints a different picture IMO. One thing I would like to give AGon credit for--he was a much better hitter on the ROAD in the 2007: .306/.343/.500 as apposed to .242/.309/.440. Clearly, his 2007 results were not a GABP mirage.