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View Full Version : Is Danny Graves a Reds hall of famer?



savafan
05-10-2008, 04:27 PM
He's the Reds' all time saves leader, but when you think of great Reds closers, does the name Danny Graves come to mind?

redsmetz
05-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Simply because he flamed out in the end, doesn't take anything away from how good he was when he was on top.

Unassisted
05-10-2008, 04:46 PM
The numbers say that Danny belongs in that pantheon. It'll take a while longer for the bridges he burned in Cincinnati to quit smoldering. Once that happens, history should view him more kindly. Give it another 10 years.

Chip R
05-10-2008, 04:49 PM
I think you have to be more consistant over an entire career to deserve that honor.

Will M
05-10-2008, 05:32 PM
Graves in his 'prime' was a competent middle reliever who was the Reds 'closer' due to lack of anyone better. If this gets you into the Reds Hall of Fame then we must truly be bad.

Always Red
05-10-2008, 06:45 PM
Graves in his 'prime' was a competent middle reliever who was the Reds 'closer' due to lack of anyone better. If this gets you into the Reds Hall of Fame then we must truly be bad.

I voted "no" but quite frankly, if Cesar Geronimo is a HoF'er, then Danny Graves probably is, too.

The bar has been set very low.

AmarilloRed
05-10-2008, 07:17 PM
I voted yes, although the time period is certainly a factor. He was a pretty good pitcher until the disastrous attempt at turning him into a starting pitcher.

guttle11
05-10-2008, 07:52 PM
The numbers say that Danny belongs in that pantheon. It'll take a while longer for the bridges he burned in Cincinnati to quit smoldering. Once that happens, history should view him more kindly. Give it another 10 years.


I pretty much agree. Had he handled his exit with a bit more class, he'd be a lock, IMO. Saves is a stat Cincy fans tend to value pretty high, so I'd imagine the fans would have voted him in on their ballot. Maybe not now, though.

MartyFan
05-10-2008, 07:56 PM
They didn't call him the "Baby Faced Assassin" when he came into a game because he lacked skill, the guy was LIGHTS OUT for a few years.

He got messed up when he went to the rotation, then he got frustrated, none of that takes anything away from what he accomplished before that time.

Joseph
05-10-2008, 08:01 PM
The bar is set low for the Reds HoF, I hate to admit that. There should be a handful of members, but thats a rant for another time.

Graves should be however. He did his job better than anyone else as a Red, its not his fault the teams were bad.

sonny
05-10-2008, 08:26 PM
Should a former dominant closer be judged so harsh for his latter failures?

SUBQUESTION

Is it better to burn out than fade away?

RedsManRick
05-10-2008, 08:54 PM
5 solid years as a good closer simply doesn't put in you the Reds HOF in my book. Graves had some nice seasons, but he wasn't dominant - a 3.50 ERA and 1.30 WHIP is merely good for a reliever. You want dominant, look at Rob Dibble's first 5 years. The Reds history can be written without Danny Graves and nobody would really notice the omission.

MWM
05-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Graves in his 'prime' was a competent middle reliever who was the Reds 'closer' due to lack of anyone better. If this gets you into the Reds Hall of Fame then we must truly be bad.


That exactly what I was going to post. He was miscast as a closer. He certainly isn't deserving of the Reds HOF, IMO.

And I'm with Rick, he was never lights out or dominant in any season, let alone over a period of seasons.

Big Klu
05-11-2008, 01:02 AM
Also, it wasn't like he was this really good closer who suddenly got thrust into the rotation. He was converted to a starter because he wasn't getting the job done in the bullpen. Then, when it became apparent that he wasn't getting the job done in the rotation either, he was moved back to the pen, where he could do less damage.

KronoRed
05-11-2008, 02:49 AM
Sure, he was decent on some bad teams.

Cyclone792
05-11-2008, 03:57 AM
I'd put Scott Sullivan in the Reds Hall of Fame before Graves, but that's just me.

Graves piled up the saves, but Sullivan provided more value.

cincinnati chili
05-11-2008, 04:22 AM
I'd put in Dibble or Franco before Graves. Even in his prime, Graves in his prime made me nervous. Rob Dibble in his prime made opponents nervous.

I admit to being an advocate for the switch to the rotation. However, if I had known he'd resisted it so much internally, I wouldn't have made such a push.

Caveat Emperor
05-11-2008, 04:38 AM
Even in his prime, Graves in his prime made me nervous. Rob Dibble in his prime made opponents nervous.

Dibble was also part of a WS winning bullpen. Graves racked up the saves but has 0 postseason appearances to his name.

redsrule2500
05-11-2008, 11:26 AM
No. Danny Graves was a lucky closer. He wasn't that good of a pitcher, much like Joe Borowski isn't that good of a pitcher. More likely than not, they can save a game - but that should go for any pitcher with an ERA of less than 9!

jojo
05-11-2008, 11:46 AM
He made a lot of money as a Red. Isn't that enough?

REDREAD
05-12-2008, 11:26 AM
In terms of "fame".. Graves just not seem like a player that you'd talk about to a young Reds fan in 15 years.. While Geranamo wasn't exactly a superstar, at least he was memberable and you might actually talk about him.

Graves did have some solid years, and IMO was a legitimate (although not dominate) closer.

I really don't like the precedent that anyone that has the closer's job on this team for 4-5 years gets in the Reds Hall of Fame.

Danny Serafini
05-12-2008, 11:41 AM
If the Reds HOF had legitimate standards then I would say no. Considering how low the bar is for the Reds HOF, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he got in.

RedsBaron
05-12-2008, 12:05 PM
I was never a fan of Graves, but, given how low the bar has been set, he easily deserves to be inducted into the Reds Hall of Fame. He is the team's all time saves leader. If Mike McCormick, Harry Craft, Larry Kopf, Tommy Helms and Wayne Granger are Reds Hall of Famers (and they are), then Graves should be one as well.

cumberlandreds
05-12-2008, 12:32 PM
I voted no just on the basis of how he reacted to the fans booing him. For that he does not deserve to be in a Hall of Fame.

Sea Ray
05-12-2008, 12:35 PM
I'd put in Dibble or Franco before Graves. Even in his prime, Graves in his prime made me nervous. Rob Dibble in his prime made opponents nervous.

I admit to being an advocate for the switch to the rotation. However, if I had known he'd resisted it so much internally, I wouldn't have made such a push.

Add David Weathers to that list. How quickly we forget things like the reason Graves was moved to the rotation is because he was struggling as a reliever. Although he did rack up a bunch of saves he also was among the league leaders in blown saves. Statistically speaking a team that enters the 9th inning with a lead wins the game no matter who's closing. My bet is Graves' save percentage is no more than the avg win percentage of a team entering the 9th with a lead

Danny Serafini
05-12-2008, 01:03 PM
I voted no just on the basis of how he reacted to the fans booing him. For that he does not deserve to be in a Hall of Fame.

If you're only going to judge people on their worst day then no one would get in.

BCubb2003
05-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Graves had some decent years, he was a groundball machine for awhile, but much of his all-time saves total is due to the nature of the overrated closer who starts the inning with bases empty, fills them, then finally gets the third out, or comes into the game with just one out to get. You can pile up the saves that way, while blowing quite a few.

KronoRed
05-12-2008, 02:25 PM
If he does go in, we should Boo him on induction day, just to be fair.

Chip R
05-12-2008, 02:36 PM
Is there a height requirement for the Reds HOF? I know the last time Danny was here he was feeling pretty small. ;)

Jpup
05-12-2008, 02:38 PM
yes, without a doubt.

redsmetz
05-12-2008, 02:40 PM
If he does go in, we should Boo him on induction day, just to be fair.

Boo him or tell him he's Number One for all of us with one finger? :D

KronoRed
05-12-2008, 02:42 PM
Boo him or tell him he's Number One for all of us with one finger? :D

Why not both?:cool:

camisadelgolf
05-13-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm just guessing that Pete Rose and almost every other athlete on Earth has done things similar to inappropriately gesturing with a finger (but most of them weren't dumb enough to do it in front of thousands of people). I'm not saying Graves has had the career Rose has, but if you think Rose deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, then I think you should agree that Graves deserves to be in the Reds' Hall of Fame.

flyer85
05-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Is there a height requirement for the Reds HOF? I know the last time Danny was here he was feeling pretty small. ;)wasn't that after his hand gesture indicating where he ranked on the all time saves list as a Red?