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TheBigLebowski
05-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I can't take him anymore. I've never once complained about him before and I've seen many others do it. Today - last straw. It's been brewing for a while but this did it.

Top of the 7th, Reds down by 5 runs. Just need baserunners. He does a good job delivering a single and THEN GETS THROWN OUT TRYING TO STEAL SECOND.

I have never seen a MLB player make more mental mistakes, especially on the basepaths. Enough of Farney.

757690
05-11-2008, 04:43 PM
In the first, his over aggressiveness caused Griffey to hold up in going after a ball, which resulted in 3 runs.

I like Freel, as a sub, but not as a centerfielder. I'd rather have Patterson hit .200 there, at least he can make all the plays and can run the bases if he ever gets on.

forfreelin04
05-11-2008, 05:33 PM
Judging by my S/n I was a strong Freel supporter.

Judging by the year I made the s/n, you can tell it was a good time to be one.

Judging by me writing in the past tense, you can tell I no longer am a Freel supporter.

Nobody should make the amount of mental errors he makes. There not even mental errors. Mental errors to me consist of walking to the dugout when there's only 2 outs, a balk, or walking to first with 3 balls.

Freel's mistakes are sheer stupidity. That border severly on the absurd. Put yourself in his mind all Farney jokes aside. He has to think about stealing the bag or getting picked off and then proceed to remember that the Reds are down a signficant number of runs, then STILL think the reward outweighs the risk.

I honestly think the guy has had one too many concussions and is off his proverbial rocker.

_Sir_Charles_
05-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Freel is an excellent BENCH player. He's simply not an everyday player. He's got good range in centerfield but his judgement is .... ummm.... let's just say it's "below average". I guess I'm in a generous mood. :O)

But Patterson is not the answer either.

It's time to give Jay a shot. If he K's a bunch, then he K's a bunch. If he's "destined" to be a corner OF'er, fine. But for now, the opening is in center. And regardless of how he's "projected" to be a corner outfielder, the simple fact is that he's been playing center for over 75% of the time in Louisville. Same went for last year IIRC. You can project him anywhere you want, but he's been getting the majority of his playing time the past 2 years in Center....bring the kid UP already.

ChatterRed
05-11-2008, 06:11 PM
The entire outfield needs to be completely replaced / rejuvanted / re-thought out by management.

You have a big lummox out in LF that can't field, can't hit for average, and so far isn't hitting many homers either, while striking out alot. Good job playing for a new contract Adam.........you suck. You have an over the hill defensive liability in RF who isn't hitting very well either. You have a couple of bozo's that either can't hit or can't think straight playing CF.

Get rid of them all, bring up Bruce and find a couple more OFers.

Nasty_Boy
05-11-2008, 06:32 PM
The entire outfield needs to be completely replaced / rejuvanted / re-thought out by management.

You have a big lummox out in LF that can't field, can't hit for average, and so far isn't hitting many homers either, while striking out alot. Good job playing for a new contract Adam.........you suck. You have an over the hill defensive liability in RF who isn't hitting very well either. You have a couple of bozo's that either can't hit or can't think straight playing CF.

Get rid of them all, bring up Bruce and find a couple more OFers.


:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown :thumbdown

Orodle
05-11-2008, 06:50 PM
In the first, his over aggressiveness caused Griffey to hold up in going after a ball, which resulted in 3 runs.

I like Freel, as a sub, but not as a centerfielder. I'd rather have Patterson hit .200 there, at least he can make all the plays and can run the bases if he ever gets on.

blaming someone's over aggressiveness for holding up on the ball is exactly the reason this team stinks right now.

CRedsLarkin11
05-11-2008, 07:12 PM
What do we have to do to get Norris Hopper some playing time? He can't do any worse and he actually fits the mold of a leadoff hitter, what did he do to get in the dog house?

texasdave
05-11-2008, 08:13 PM
What happened to Norris Hopper? Dusty Baker happened, which caused Corey Patterson to happen. That says it all. Norris went on the 15 day DL retroactive to April 19th due to elbow inflammation I believe. That means he was eligible to be reactivated about a week ago. Is he on any sort of rehab assignment? I have no idea.

Jack Burton
05-11-2008, 08:20 PM
In the first, his over aggressiveness caused Griffey to hold up in going after a ball, which resulted in 3 runs.
Excellent sarcasm.

texasdave
05-11-2008, 08:46 PM
In the first, his over aggressiveness caused Griffey to hold up in going after a ball, which resulted in 3 runs.



If you have been watching Junior the last couple of seasons, a number of things cause Griffey from going after a ball.

757690
05-11-2008, 08:57 PM
Excellent sarcasm.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

It was clear that Griffey got to the ball, but saw or heard Freel flying at him, so he held up. That was all on Freel. If he had played his position correctly, and been backing up Griffey, then Griffey easily would have caught it. Freel's spastic nature has caused many problems in the past and it definitely did this time.

Overaggressiveness is as bad as laziness, as it leads to just as many errors and missed plays. You want your fielders to be smart, not always as aggressive as possible. Freel trying to catch that ball that he had no chance of getting to is like a SS throwing to first when he has no shot of getting the runner. It can only lead to bad things. It all comes down to fundimentals. Fielders need to be smart, and Freel was not smart on that play.

That said, I can easily understand why everyone wants to blame Griffey, since he has shown that he is unable to get to any ball not hit right at him. He really has a problem with balls hit in front of him. It's killing the team. 9 times out of 10, it's his fault, but this was that 10th time.

captainmorgan07
05-11-2008, 09:20 PM
I agree with most that freel's over agressiveness cause jr. to pull up for the ball. JR.'s lost so much range though that any normal right fielder would have caught that ball no problem. Freel not only makes me nervous in the outfield but im sure he makes his fellow outfielders nervous as well.

_Sir_Charles_
05-11-2008, 09:40 PM
What happened to Norris Hopper? Dusty Baker happened, which caused Corey Patterson to happen. That says it all. Norris went on the 15 day DL retroactive to April 19th due to elbow inflammation I believe. That means he was eligible to be reactivated about a week ago. Is he on any sort of rehab assignment? I have no idea.

Yes, Norris is injured. He's hitting and running and stuff, but he hasn't even begun throwing yet. It's gonna be a while before he gets back.

Despite how much many here loathe Dusty Baker, I'm still fairly certain that he's NOT responsible for Norris' injury. *rolls eyes*

jnwohio
05-11-2008, 09:47 PM
I did not see it today but it sounds like a continuation of the circus act Freel put on last week in Atlanta, sliding AFTER making a catch when there was no need to, leaping for a ball that is already hitting his glove, being struck on the arm/ shoulder by a ball that he was diving for when apparently he did not need to dive, and of course the obligatory foul up on the base paths.

I don't see how it can be a question of JayBruce being any worse. I think it is more a question of how being thrown into the fire when he might not quite be ready could negatively impact his long term development and career ceiling which management sees as one of the linchpins in the future of the organization.

That said. How long can they wait?

_Sir_Charles_
05-11-2008, 10:25 PM
No, I don't think that play today was Freel's fault, well not completely at least. There was definitely poor communication between Junior and Ryan, but Junior definitely should've been able to make that catch...without diving. He pulled up when Freel was going for it like a bat out of hell.

Red in Atl
05-11-2008, 10:36 PM
Keppinger
Dunn
Votto
JR
Encarnacion
BP
Patterson
Bako

until Jay Bruce comes up and

Keppinger
Dunn
Votto
JR
Encarnacion
BP
Bruce
Bako

and then lets hope he hits his way up the lineup.

Red in Atl
05-11-2008, 10:41 PM
Bring up Bailey too and you have...

Harang
Arroyo
Volquez
Bailey
Cueto

Still like splitting up Volquez and Cueto and this way J gets some rest and maybe some better match ups to get some reps and relax.

I think thats the team that could make a run. And if they don't, trade Junior to a contender and let Dunn go via FA and take the draft pick.

smoke6
05-12-2008, 09:24 AM
I also think Freel does more harm than good most of the time, but Hopper isn't the answer either. He'll be less of a liability in the field, but you can only bunt for a hit so often.

All of the people who don't matter (US) know the answer is Jay Bruce. He's going to make mistakes and probably won't take as many walks as they want him too, but WE AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE THIS YEAR!

Jack Burton
05-13-2008, 11:52 AM
Phillips overaggressiveness last night caused Jr. to drop an easy pop-fly. Then Jr's own overaggreissiveness almost caused him to drop another fly on the warning track. What are we gonna do with this overaggressivenss, it's ruining Griffey's carrer.

captainmorgan07
05-13-2008, 11:57 AM
I don't know if last night's overagressiveness caused jr. to drop the ball. I think he just flat out took it for grant it and took his eye off of it. Phillips pulled up way earlier enough for junior not to have to worry about a collision.

smoke6
05-13-2008, 12:11 PM
Phillips overaggressiveness last night caused Jr. to drop an easy pop-fly. Then Jr's own overaggreissiveness almost caused him to drop another fly on the warning track. What are we gonna do with this overaggressivenss, it's ruining Griffey's carrer.

I disagree 1000%. BP basically threw himself down and out of the way. Jr., is his old age, added a little jump hop (thinking he needed to avoid BP) AND it looked like he took his eyes off of the ball.

ALL Junior's fault kid.

Jack Burton
05-13-2008, 12:25 PM
ALL Junior's fault kid.

Say it ain't so.

HUHUH
05-13-2008, 11:54 PM
I wasn't being sarcastic.

It was clear that Griffey got to the ball, but saw or heard Freel flying at him, so he held up. That was all on Freel. If he had played his position correctly, and been backing up Griffey, then Griffey easily would have caught it. Freel's spastic nature has caused many problems in the past and it definitely did this time.

Overaggressiveness is as bad as laziness, as it leads to just as many errors and missed plays. You want your fielders to be smart, not always as aggressive as possible. Freel trying to catch that ball that he had no chance of getting to is like a SS throwing to first when he has no shot of getting the runner. It can only lead to bad things. It all comes down to fundimentals. Fielders need to be smart, and Freel was not smart on that play.

That said, I can easily understand why everyone wants to blame Griffey, since he has shown that he is unable to get to any ball not hit right at him. He really has a problem with balls hit in front of him. It's killing the team. 9 times out of 10, it's his fault, but this was that 10th time.

It's definitely about the "fundamintals"