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Redsnake
05-12-2008, 06:33 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8171/news


May 12 Hal McCoy, of the Dayton Daily News, reports Cincinnati Reds manager Dusty Baker said OF Jay Bruce will be recalled soon.

Could see him soon guys.

Grande Donkey
05-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Please be true!!!

Hondo
05-12-2008, 06:40 PM
That would be Nice to see Dunn-Bruce-Griffey Outfield Play for atleast a Month or so before the Team Trades Griffey and/or Dunn to see what JB can add to the Chemistry and the Offense...

Fullboat
05-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Lets cut the kid some slack though,he is not going put this team
in first all of a sudden.

Kingspoint
05-12-2008, 06:58 PM
Hopefully Patterson gets released.

ChatterRed
05-12-2008, 07:02 PM
Hopefully Patterson gets released.

Yeah, it seemed to get lost in all the excitement as to what might be going on in terms of a trade or someone getting released. Hmmmm. :confused:

Hondo
05-12-2008, 07:04 PM
What could Patterson get back in Trade? How about Greg Maddux?

ChatterRed
05-12-2008, 07:05 PM
I think we could get Santana for Patterson. Or maybe Brandon Webb. Or maybe Jake Peavy. Or maybe..........

Hondo
05-12-2008, 07:07 PM
Hey Greg Maddux is on the Block, and Jim Edmonds needs a Replacement

FlightRick
05-12-2008, 09:35 PM
Not that I put much stock in such a vague third-hand report, but...

If my memory isn't completely shot, didn't we wait until the first Cleveland series to call up Homer Bailey last year so that he could get a little bit of "trial by fire" in front of a packed house and with what passes for a lot of media exposure?

And who's coming into town this weekend?


Rick

jmac
05-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Lets cut the kid some slack though,he is not going put this team
in first all of a sudden.
No but at least he will add some extra excitement ! :beerme:

captainmorgan07
05-12-2008, 09:51 PM
After that debacle in right by griffey in the 8th i want bruce up here pronto.

Kingspoint
05-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Something woke Patterson up....

4 hits tonight.

smoke6
05-12-2008, 09:54 PM
Something woke Patterson up....

4 hits tonight.

Great. Now he'll be the starter for another month.:thumbdown

jmac
05-12-2008, 09:59 PM
Great. Now he'll be the starter for another month.:thumbdown

He has been without the hits anyway.

Slyder
05-12-2008, 10:10 PM
After listening to the 8th inning I hope Griffey goes home soon (to Seattle). 1 drop for 2 runs and almost dropped a 2nd one. He has absolutely no value in the field any more. Bruce or Dickerson (or both and Patterson kicked to the curb) could be what the doc ordered for the pitching staff.

Slyder
05-12-2008, 10:13 PM
If Bruce is indeed called up (before a trade) who sits does everyone think?

My guess seeing Dusty's lineups. Bruce would give Dusty a reason to bench Dunn and his base clogging ability. Can't have that going on out there.

But that might just be my own glass half empty way to look at this.

Donder
05-12-2008, 10:24 PM
My guess is this means a trade is coming. It doesn't make a lot of sense to bring up Bruce and cut Patterson or Hopper (or send Hopper to AAA, does he still have options?) if they're trying to trade Dunn and/or Griffey in the near future. If they ultimately do trade one of those two and replace him with Bruce they will probably want Freel/Patterson/Hopper as security.

I guess if Hopper does have options I could see them sending Hopper down with Bruce starting in CF.

Donder
05-12-2008, 10:25 PM
If Bruce is indeed called up (before a trade) who sits does everyone think?

My guess seeing Dusty's lineups. Bruce would give Dusty a reason to bench Dunn and his base clogging ability. Can't have that going on out there.

But that might just be my own glass half empty way to look at this.

If they are shopping Dunn, I don't think the front office would be too keen on Dusty sitting him. Not that this scenario is impossible, though...

Mutaman
05-12-2008, 10:27 PM
If Bruce is indeed called up (before a trade) who sits does everyone think?

My guess seeing Dusty's lineups. Bruce would give Dusty a reason to bench Dunn and his base clogging ability. Can't have that going on out there.

But that might just be my own glass half empty way to look at this.

This is the only place in the world where people consistently complain about a nonentity like Patterson and yet continue to give Dunn a free pass. Did you see his attempt to bunt tonight? But he still has that great OBP.

I know the reason for this but we're not supposed to talk about politics here, right?

kfm
05-12-2008, 10:27 PM
If Bruce is indeed called up (before a trade) who sits does everyone think?

My guess seeing Dusty's lineups. Bruce would give Dusty a reason to bench Dunn and his base clogging ability. Can't have that going on out there.

But that might just be my own glass half empty way to look at this.

If Bruce gets called up, he is playing centerfield and between Dunn and Griffey. That is if there is not a trade. Freel becomes your fourth outfielder as the only righthanded batting outfielder and Patterson doesn't start much more than once or twice a week in addition to pinch hitting and pinch running.

kfm
05-12-2008, 10:31 PM
This is the only place in the world where people consistently complain about a nonentity like Patterson and yet continue to give Dunn a free pass. Did you see his attempt to bunt tonight? But he still has that great OBP.

I know the reason for this but we're not supposed to talk about politics here, right?

There are way too many people who make excuses for Adam Dunn on this board like pointing out his ops with RISP yet forgiving his 5 for 25 with RISP as if that doesn't actually matter or had contributed to the lousy reds offense, but there is no comparison between Dunn and Patterson. Dunn's least productive season would be a career year for Patterson. People would check his bat, and he'd get tested for roids.

Mutaman
05-12-2008, 10:38 PM
but there is no comparison between Dunn and Patterson. Dunn's least productive season would be a career year for Patterson. People would check his bat, and he'd get tested for roids.

Who's comparing Dunn and Patterson?

Slyder
05-12-2008, 10:39 PM
This is the only place in the world where people consistently complain about a nonentity like Patterson and yet continue to give Dunn a free pass. Did you see his attempt to bunt tonight? But he still has that great OBP.

I know the reason for this but we're not supposed to talk about politics here, right?


Who's comparing Dunn and Patterson?

Looks like you were.

Blue
05-12-2008, 10:45 PM
This is the only place in the world where people consistently complain about a nonentity like Patterson and yet continue to give Dunn a free pass. Did you see his attempt to bunt tonight? But he still has that great OBP.

I know the reason for this but we're not supposed to talk about politics here, right?

How in the world is Patterson a nonentity? What does that even mean? He's the starting CF and leadoff hitter. Dunn is the 5-7 hitter, who would be a far better choice at leadoff than Patterson. Dunn is not even coming close to getting the job done this year but he is still a lot better than Patterson. Don't use his poor first 6 weeks this season as evidence that you've been right for the past six years.

Anyway, this thread is about Jay Bruce. I hope the story is right and that he is starting in CF very soon, for example, tomorrow.

HeatherC1212
05-12-2008, 11:10 PM
After witnessing the dropped pop fly tonight first hand at the ballpark (and nearly seeing another one later in that same inning which gave me a heart attack), I'm all for bringing Bruce up as long as he can catch the ball and HOLD ONTO IT. Dang, what a night! :eek:

jmac
05-12-2008, 11:27 PM
After witnessing the dropped pop fly tonight first hand at the ballpark (and nearly seeing another one later in that same inning which gave me a heart attack), I'm all for bringing Bruce up as long as he can catch the ball and HOLD ONTO IT. Dang, what a night! :eek:
I only got to listen to game tonight and marty didnt even mention the bobble.
Wow !
he made it sound more like a terrific catch !

fugowitribe
05-12-2008, 11:36 PM
Any chance this happens before the Indians series.......Last year I saw Homer make his debut against Cleveland and it brought a lot fans to the park. I would love to see Jay play.

Mutaman
05-13-2008, 12:01 AM
How in the world is Patterson a nonentity? What does that even mean? He's the starting CF and leadoff hitter. Dunn is the 5-7 hitter, who would be a far better choice at leadoff than Patterson. Dunn is not even coming close to getting the job done this year but he is still a lot better than Patterson. Don't use his poor first 6 weeks this season as evidence that you've been right for the past six years.


You answered your own question. Its been 6 weeks. This team has been losing for the last 7 years. Patterson has not been a part of that yet to listening to people like you, he is the root cause of all of this organization's problems.

Dunn on the other hand has been yet to play on a team here that finished above .500, but people like you continue to give him a free pass because he walks once in awhile.

"evidence that you've been right for the past six years"

I have no idea what this means. I'm a Reds fan so I'm a Dunn fan and always have been. I've recently come to the conclusion however that he is a big part of the problem here.

Bruce- thsi team is at least a year or two away. The goal is to have Bruce play every game next year, hit about .280 with about 20-30 HRs and lots of RBIs. If you accomplish that by playing him all year at Louisville, then do it. If you accomplish that by bringing him up, then do it.

Redeye fly
05-13-2008, 07:06 AM
I only got to listen to game tonight and marty didnt even mention the bobble.
Wow !
he made it sound more like a terrific catch !

Actually, as hard as it was hit and where it was hit, it was a pretty good play to get to the ball. I honestly didn't think anyone was going to get to it, least of all Griffey.

But yep, that one popped out of his glove as well. Fortunately, it dropped into his barehand.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 08:34 AM
There is no place for Jay Bruce on the current roster, since I see no reason to put him in CF between Jr and Dunn. He can't cover enough ground out there to make up for those two.

The only reason would be for more Offense, which if you haven't noticed lately, isn't the problem.

Jay Bruce will join this team, when he is taking over in RF, for good.

IF this means that KGJ is on his way to Seattle, then so be it, otherwise it's pure hogwash.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 08:46 AM
Bruce got 5 hits last night and is now hitting .348 with 7 HR and 8 stolen bases in 8 attempts.

But he's not ready yet, right people? He's not rounding the bases well enough.... he needs more time....

Gimme a break.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 08:49 AM
By the way, here's the "Source" of the KFFL "story"...

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/05/12/ddn051208redsconnection.html

Q Isn't it time for the Jay Bruce Era to begin, time to trade Griffey and Dunn even if it's only a salary dump? The money is better spent in so many other areas. Steve, Carmel, Ind.

A I don't necessarily agree that it is dump salary time in early May. And Dusty Baker told me that Bruce will be here soon and he is a man of his word. When the Reds deem that he is ready, he'll be here. As Bruce himself said, "When I get there, I want to stay." If the Reds rid themselves of Dunn and Griffey right now, what would the talk show folks have left to scream about?


Yeah, pretty much looks like he'll be called up for the weekend series... :rolleyes:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 08:52 AM
Yeah, pretty much looks like he'll be called up for the weekend series... :rolleyes:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Were you being sarcastic or you do think he'll be called up by then?

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 08:52 AM
Bruce got 5 hits last night and is now hitting .348 with 7 HR and 8 stolen bases in 8 attempts.

But he's not ready yet, right people? He's not rounding the bases well enough.... he needs more time....

Gimme a break.

And less than a week ago they were quoting his stats for his "slump" over the last 10 days where he hit .188. Sure he's on a hot tear. Thinking long-term though, there's no reason to start his ARB clock to come play for a last place team.

Like I said, our O is going well right now, we need a D upgrade, and putting Bruce in CF wouldn't do that. Now putting him in RF? Surely, but you'd have to move someone else first.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 08:57 AM
And less than a week ago they were quoting his stats for his "slump" over the last 10 days where he hit .188. Sure he's on a hot tear. Thinking long-term though, there's no reason to start his ARB clock to come play for a last place team.

Like I said, our O is going well right now, we need a D upgrade, and putting Bruce in CF wouldn't do that. Now putting him in RF? Surely, but you'd have to move someone else first.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

But your wrong. Arbitration clocks should have nothing to do with baseball decisions. If a player (and in this case Bruce) is as advertised, you don't worry about Arb clocks, because you're trying to put a winning product on the field right? So if he's good in a few years you need to sign him long term, and joke things like Arb clocks don't matter. And if we're trying to win now; then shouldn't the best talent be up here for the best on field product and best chances to win? I don't get where as fans that the Reds brass has dupped some of you into thinking this is ok.

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 08:59 AM
Like I said, our O is going well right now, we need a D upgrade, and putting Bruce in CF wouldn't do that. Now putting him in RF? Surely, but you'd have to move someone else first.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

No our O isn't going well right now.

Griffey hasn't homered in 70 at bats and had only 3 extra base hits in a month. Corey Patterson's OBP is .250 and is only hitting .220 after a 4-hit performance. Adam Dunn is in his worst slump in 4 years.

What are you talking about?

durl
05-13-2008, 09:00 AM
Hopefully Bruce is prepared for the big leagues. This week he's being touted as the "season-changer," whether because of his bat or the excitement level he brings.

But misplay a ball or go 0-4 with 4 Ks and people will run you out of town on a rail. Good luck, kid.

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 09:04 AM
But misplay a ball or go 0-4 with 4 Ks and people will run you out of town on a rail. Good luck, kid.


Only the foolish and they'll always exist. Those who know baseball realize the baseball men that have said this kid is as sure fire a talent as they come.

Scouts

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 10:39 AM
But your wrong. Arbitration clocks should have nothing to do with baseball decisions. If a player (and in this case Bruce) is as advertised, you don't worry about Arb clocks, because you're trying to put a winning product on the field right? So if he's good in a few years you need to sign him long term, and joke things like Arb clocks don't matter. And if we're trying to win now; then shouldn't the best talent be up here for the best on field product and best chances to win? I don't get where as fans that the Reds brass has dupped some of you into thinking this is ok.

Looking for the "naive smiley"...

If we were "committed to winning", we wouldn't have gone into ST with the Starting Pitchers we did, and signed Josh Fogg.

If we were "committed to winning", Corey Patterson wouldn't be leading offf.

If you think finances have nothing to do with baseball decisions, there's no hope for you.

Bruce clearly outplayed Patterson in ST, yet somehow he was given the opening day nod. They were thinking long-term. Period.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 10:44 AM
You're right bleeds and I see how you actually feel vs. what's actually happening.

Sorry I mis-read the way you meant for the initial post to be interpreted.

shredda2000
05-13-2008, 10:51 AM
Dunn to San Diego!!! You heard it here first!!! (just speculation...)

smoke6
05-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Dunn to San Diego!!! You heard it here first!!! (just speculation...)

I'll believe it when i SEE IT.

OesterPoster
05-13-2008, 02:34 PM
Bruce clearly outplayed Patterson in ST, yet somehow he was given the opening day nod. They were thinking long-term. Period.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Sorry, you lose credibility with outlandish comments like this. I'm not a Patterson fan by any stretch, but he was not "clearly" outplayed by Bruce in spring training this year.

Bruce: 42 ABs, 11 hits, 3 runs, 1 double, 3 rbi, 1 bb, 11 Ks, 2 sb, .279 OBP, .262 BA.

Patterson: 41 ABs, 12 hits, 6 runs, 3 doubles, 2 rbi, 3 bb, 2 Ks, .341 OBP, .293 BA

Now, I can't take into account what split squad games each played, nor the level of competition...but my eyes remember reading lots of good things about Patterson in the spring, and my ears remember hearing lots of good things about Patterson in the spring.

Bruce may have been hampered by the quad injury, but he did not "clearly" outplay Patterson.

VJoshuaV
05-13-2008, 02:45 PM
Patterson is Dusty Baker's boy, plain and simple. Besides fielding & base stealing (which the latter he's managed to f'up royally so far) he's useless. The only way I can rationalize this whole Patterson situation is that either he's blackmailing Dusty or they're lovers.....either way I'm disgusted by the whole thing.

Blue
05-13-2008, 02:47 PM
There is no place for Jay Bruce on the current roster, since I see no reason to put him in CF between Jr and Dunn. He can't cover enough ground out there to make up for those two.

The only reason would be for more Offense, which if you haven't noticed lately, isn't the problem.

This is a little silly. A run created on offense is just as good as one allowed by defense. The same 9 guys that play defense play offense. There's no way Bruce won't contribute more to the team than Patterson, offense and defense combined, as it must be.

I'm not even sure it makes sense to speak in such terms as "making up" for another player's limited range.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Sorry, you lose credibility with outlandish comments like this. I'm not a Patterson fan by any stretch, but he was not "clearly" outplayed by Bruce in spring training this year.

Bruce: 42 ABs, 11 hits, 3 runs, 1 double, 3 rbi, 1 bb, 11 Ks, 2 sb, .279 OBP, .262 BA.

Patterson: 41 ABs, 12 hits, 6 runs, 3 doubles, 2 rbi, 3 bb, 2 Ks, .341 OBP, .293 BA

Now, I can't take into account what split squad games each played, nor the level of competition...but my eyes remember reading lots of good things about Patterson in the spring, and my ears remember hearing lots of good things about Patterson in the spring.

Bruce may have been hampered by the quad injury, but he did not "clearly" outplay Patterson.

I was being sarcastic. Patterson's mirage of a Spring Training, coupled with Bruce's minor injury which slowed him up, gave Dusty all he needed to "support" his man-love for Patterson. I said the day they signed Patterson to a minor league deal and brought him into camp that he was going to be the opening day CF-er and lead-off guy, barring injury.

CP could have batted .091 and Bruce could have OPS'd 1.50 and it wouldn't have mattered one bit. Dusty would have used every excuse he could find, but in the end he could point to the stat sheet and say "looky, Corey Patterson had an OBP of .341, he's our guy!" Now look what we're stuck with. His 4-5 day is just going to buy him more time to be a black-hole at the top of the lineup.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Hondo
05-13-2008, 03:18 PM
There was no real reason to sign Patterson... Not for 3 Million. With Freel and Hopper already on this team...

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 03:25 PM
This is a little silly. A run created on offense is just as good as one allowed by defense. The same 9 guys that play defense play offense. There's no way Bruce won't contribute more to the team than Patterson, offense and defense combined, as it must be.

I'm not even sure it makes sense to speak in such terms as "making up" for another player's limited range.

I'll reserve my initial comment on this only because I have been carrying an 80% warning level for some time now.

I will just ask you what you think went into the thinking to give Corey Patterson a free pass to play Center Field for the Reds then, if it wasn't his defense. Before you answer, you might want to Google "Baker Patterson Reds" and read a few quotes...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 03:25 PM
'Very soon' clearly meant not until June.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 03:26 PM
There was no real reason to sign Patterson... Not for 3 Million. With Freel and Hopper already on this team...

You mean, other than the fact that he can actually play Center Field, or?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 03:35 PM
'Very soon' clearly meant not until June.

Show him what he's won Bob!!

Whatever that magical day is where we could bring Bruce in and not have it affect his Arb clock from moving into "Super 2" status in a year or so, is when he MIGHT get considered for a call-up.

Either way, it's going to be a really crowded OF, with only one guy who can play CF above replacement value in terms of Defense.

I still say it won't be done until Junior is traded, injured, or he ends the season, and Bruce starts off fresh in 2009. Otherwise, you can expect some SERIOUS clubhouse issues to start brewing.

Believe me, I would be MORE THAN HAPPY to eat crow on this one. IF Bruce is the replacement for CP, there would mean there is some hope for Dusty Baker. I don't think there's quite enough kool-aid to go around to get me to believe that.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I(heart)Freel
05-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Everyone should read up on the Longoria situation in Tampa earlier this year. You take a hard line approach to not calling a guy up if it means he could be Super-Two'd. Then, as soon as the agent and the player realize this, they negotiate a long term contract, knowing that Super Two was out of the question. So you DO get that third year for cheaper.

It's the smart play, from a business sense. And frankly... there's only half a month til this kicks in.

Wait it out. Do it right.

Hondo
05-13-2008, 03:39 PM
You mean, other than the fact that he can actually play Center Field, or?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Are u saying Freel can't play Center?

Grande Donkey
05-13-2008, 03:45 PM
Are u saying Freel can't play Center?He can. He's just not that good at it.

LouisvilleCARDS
05-13-2008, 03:55 PM
This is why I wished we hadn't traded Josh Hamilton. I can't imagine he was the only player we could have traded for Volquez, I was worried that age would catch up to Junior in a big way this year, and it has. And dunn has gone to crap, and Patterson has been horrible in center. So instead of the whole "Bruce completes the outfield" thing - he looks to be the only outfielder worth is weight we even have right now. Bruce and Hamilton would have been two huge pieces of an outfield.

Hondo
05-13-2008, 04:06 PM
This is why I wished we hadn't traded Josh Hamilton. I can't imagine he was the only player we could have traded for Volquez, I was worried that age would catch up to Junior in a big way this year, and it has. And dunn has gone to crap, and Patterson has been horrible in center. So instead of the whole "Bruce completes the outfield" thing - he looks to be the only outfielder worth is weight we even have right now. Bruce and Hamilton would have been two huge pieces of an outfield.

I think then Rangers actually wanted Hamilton though...

But I thought it was a horrible trade when it occured, basically because Volquez had terrible numbers in his call ups... and did not seem worth Hamilton... He was worth Freel at that Point.

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 04:27 PM
We shouldn't have traded Hamilton but Bruce can lessen that pain

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 04:35 PM
Hamilton didn't play a very good CF either.

The reason Hamilton was expendable, was that we had the same exact guy in Bruce, who represents all of Hamilton's positive upsides (and then some) with NONE of his downside.

In the grand scheme of things, Bruce is a RF-er - probably an All-Star 10 yrs plus barring injury. We STILL need a CF for the future. Right now, we've got Corey F. Patterson, and that is sad. I'd ALMOST rather have Stubbs, RIGHT NOW, out there instead of him. I mean Stubbs can at least hit over .200 and OBP over .300 right? RIGHT?!??!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Blue
05-13-2008, 04:49 PM
I'll reserve my initial comment on this only because I have been carrying an 80% warning level for some time now.

I will just ask you what you think went into the thinking to give Corey Patterson a free pass to play Center Field for the Reds then, if it wasn't his defense. Before you answer, you might want to Google "Baker Patterson Reds" and read a few quotes...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Well, I have to admit I don't usually rely on Dusty Baker for authority when I develop my opinions. Baker may think the Reds are better with Patterson in CF and Bruce or Griffey in RF than they would be with Bruce in CF and Griffey in RF, but I would disagree with him. Taking into account both offense and defense (the only thing that makes sense to do), Bruce is a better option in CF regardless of who is manning the corners.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 04:55 PM
From Rotoworld:

Quote:
Based on a conversation he had with Dusty Baker a couple of weeks ago, Hal McCoy of the Dayton Daily News believes it could happen in early June.

(from ORG; Cyclone792)
This would seem to provide more information. I would expect to see Bruce in a Reds uniform between June 1 and June 15, 2008.

The Reds will wait until he safely clears Super Two status, which will be sometime from late May to mid June. The historical "safe" cutoff mark for Super Two status is two years, 128 days.
__________________


THAT'S THE FACT, JACK.

Also, SOMEONE will have to be taken off this current roster, and of course we surely can't live without 3 catchers, 2 lefty 1B-men, and a scrappy RH OF/IF utility guy... so you do the math.

If Dusty Baker wasn't managing this team, it would be Corey Patterson in a heart-beat, and someone would live with an even MORE convoluted mess of a Defense in the OF, but unfortunately...

I can't wait for this to play out. I need some popcorn.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Blue
05-13-2008, 05:01 PM
I mean no disrespect BLEEDS, because, well, this is the Internet and someone would have to be unduly sensitive as to their personal dignity to feel disrespected in a forum such as this.

I can't tell what your position is. Do you want to keep Patterson in CF because of his defense, or are you saying that that is the only reason why he is there, in spite of the fact that he makes the team worse?

texasdave
05-13-2008, 05:01 PM
I would bring up Bruce now in an effort to jumpstart this season. I am not saying Bruce is a savior, but why wait (possibly) another month? This team needs to get it in gear ASAP. So bring up Bruce and let him play every day no matter what. If the team continues to flounder can't they always option him back to the minors around September 1st to limit his service time? I admit I don't know the rules on that so maybe that isn't even a possibility.

mlbfan30
05-13-2008, 05:29 PM
All this goes back to Bakers love of Patterson..... Here is what I said on March 3rd.


Dusty has said many things that infer he's against Bruce in CF.

- Saying he wants Patterson/Lofton before ST
- Saying he wants to take it slow with Bruce's development, citing Patterson's struggles from coming up too soon.
- Saying he wants Hopper or Freel leading off
- Saying he was "experimenting" when Bruce finally played CF and lead off
- Saying he has to be careful with Bruce in CF from all that running hurting his legs
- Saying he thinks Dickerson could have the highest ceiling in camp.
- Saying Bruce has to prove he can hit in batting cages before hitting in games

All of these things have been anti-Bruce. He's saying better things about Janish/Rosales/Dickerson/Gil/etc than he is Bruce.

What Patterson does is give Baker a "tangable" reason for putting Bruce in AAA. Now he can say Bruce isn't ready and Patterson is a great defensive and speedy guy, and get away with it. Baker won't have both Patterson and Bruce on the roster, and that's a fact. Krivsky, I would hope, would not let Bruce be a bench player.

From an outside look, Patterson is a low risk high ceiling move. But the only way for it to actually work would be if he made the team. That means Bruce starts in AAA.

Does anyone here think Patterson is better than Bruce? I think everyone says No, right? Then that means the Reds don't field the best possible team to compete in 08.

And that's exactly what happened. Patterson played horribly while Bruce dominates in AAA. They did not field the best team on opening day, which tells me...
a) They didn't feel the team was ready to win this year .. and thus
b) They felt like Bruce's extra year was more valuable than winning this year

Now that Bruce vs. Patterson controversy is growing...
If Bruce gets called up and has super 2 status, you need to question how much influence Baker had in the decision to not have him start, and how incompetent management is for wasting 1.5 months with Bruce in the minors

I'll be very interested to see the lineup when Bruce comes up.
I'm going to say my prediction now...

Bruce leads off because he plays CF. Bruce will be told he needs to act as a leadoff hitter and will change his hitting mechanics which will cause him to struggle. This means Freel platoons against lefties even though Bruce isn't horrible hitting against them. Eventually Bruce goes down lower in the order, moved to RF, and starts to do better all at the same time. He gets moved to RF because Griffey is traded, and Patterson still leads off and plays CF. --- The big thing is Bruce will leadoff because he plays CF

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 06:50 PM
I mean no disrespect BLEEDS, because, well, this is the Internet and someone would have to be unduly sensitive as to their personal dignity to feel disrespected in a forum such as this.

I can't tell what your position is. Do you want to keep Patterson in CF because of his defense, or are you saying that that is the only reason why he is there, in spite of the fact that he makes the team worse?


Both, unfortunately.

And, even though I think Bruce is an upgrade offensively, it won't solve our biggest problem(s), lead-off and CF. Both of which, are unfortunately being "solved" by Corey F. Patterson.

Unless a mind-shift of epic proportion occurs, the best we can hope for - for the overall benefit of our team - is for Bruce to replace Griffey in RF (which would provide a slight upgrade in both O and D), and live with CF Patterson (I like that one), and then HOPE and PRAY that someone sees the light of day and doesn't force Patterson into the lead off spot. However, in view of last nights 4-5, I think it's at least until July before Patterson gets moved from there versus RH pitching.

Unfortunately, IMO, putting Bruce in CF might as well be a wash because I seriously doubt he would be put in the lead off spot, and his D would be a major dropoff from CFP (don't really like that one as much).

Remember how good our Defense was last year with Dunn, Hamilton and Griffey in the OF? We can't be subjected to that again, no matter how high the OPS. Defense is a major concern for us, and if that's the ONLY thing CF Patterson did for us, it would be fine, but again putting him in the leadoff position is a travesty, to keep it mild. If he was batting 7th, I think we all could live with that. I don't care what the sabertronics folks say about it only equalling .5 win more, but putting a .380-ish OBP from 7th to 1st/2nd, and moving a sub .300 OBP from 1st/2nd to 7th has more implications - especially when you're talking about particular guys like Votto/Bruce/Dunn and Corey Patterson being the ones being swapped.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-13-2008, 09:26 PM
With Keppinger out for the year or for a while, does Bruce take his spot with hairston seemingly moving to shortstop, giving us another need for an OF?

Degenerate39
05-13-2008, 09:28 PM
With Keppinger out for the year or for a while, does Bruce take his spot with hairston seemingly moving to shortstop, giving us another need for an OF?

That's what I'm hoping happens. Man I hate losing Keppinger. He was a great man to have on the team.

redsfanfalcon
05-13-2008, 09:30 PM
Hairston could then lead off if they bring Bruce in.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 11:50 PM
Looks like it's Janish, in to play SS, and bat - well, I don't really want to go there, anything's possible with Dusty, but I SURE hope it's not 2nd.

Can't wait for the first lineup out of DUHSTY, just when I thought I was going to let it go for awhile... Who is DUHSTY'S new "contact hitter" who will sacrifice guys over by dribbling grounders to the right side... Let's take the bat out of Votto's hands shall we!!! MAYBE since Dunn isn't hitting anyway - and has had two "Productive Outs" the last two nights, he will put him there mistakenly thinking it's to make Productive Outs, thereby actually increasing the Productivity of this offense, albeit inadvertently...

:pray:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
05-14-2008, 12:05 AM
With janish up, we have 2 pitchers hitting in the lineup

brookslouky
05-14-2008, 09:46 AM
This is my first post here, so first I'd like to say hey to everyone. I'm a lifetime Reds fan.

With that said,...nobdy in their right mind would trade for Corey Patterson. The guy is a joke in most circles around baseball. He was sitting on his arse midway through ST, so anyone who wanted him could have had him at a very reasonable price (not 3.5 mil) and he would have payed his way to get to ST. This is just a prime example of Dusty telling Krivsky to get him, and I quote, "No matter what it takes." Well, it didn't take 3.5 million greenbacks.

Ghosts of 1990
05-14-2008, 09:48 AM
This isn't that jay bruce related, but it is kind of. I can't start new threads so I thought I'd ask here. How can I put an avatar by my name? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks a ton folks!

jmac
05-14-2008, 05:26 PM
This isn't that jay bruce related, but it is kind of. I can't start new threads so I thought I'd ask here. How can I put an avatar by my name? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks a ton folks!
You're not allowed avatars while in the Sundeck.

schmidty622
05-14-2008, 05:33 PM
You're not allowed avatars while in the Sundeck.

Yeah no avatars, game threads, negative comments, overly positive comments, or anything coming close to an edgy post.

Its like elementary school but without the snack packs and recess.

Ghosts of 1990
05-14-2008, 09:55 PM
Yeah no avatars, game threads, negative comments, overly positive comments, or anything coming close to an edgy post.

Its like elementary school but without the snack packs and recess.

ok fair enough.

How do we gain access to the actual Redzone?

Ghosts of 1990
05-14-2008, 09:57 PM
also do you guys think there's ANYTHING that could keep bruce from a call up in june or is he next in line regardless of any factors?

NarrowStairs
05-14-2008, 10:18 PM
also do you guys think there's ANYTHING that could keep bruce from a call up in june or is he next in line regardless of any factors?

Our moronic front office + Baker's love affair with Patterson.

BLEEDS
05-15-2008, 07:22 AM
Yeah no avatars, game threads, negative comments, overly positive comments, or anything coming close to an edgy post.

Its like elementary school but without the snack packs and recess.

Yeah, and no smarmy posts like this either. Consider this a heads-up (from a guy with an 80% warning level since June of 07)

PEACE

-BLEEDS

schmidty622
05-15-2008, 03:28 PM
ok fair enough.

How do we gain access to the actual Redzone?

The Redszone members vote you in.

Va Red Fan
05-15-2008, 04:33 PM
With janish up, we have 2 pitchers hitting in the lineup

Looking back, that's very funny! I love it when hard playing yet imperfect players make you guys look silly! Go Janish!

Many of you hated Kepp, if I remember correctly and thought bringing in a third second baseman was such a huge mistake - thanks Brandon Phillips.

Trackman20
05-15-2008, 04:39 PM
Yahoo Fantasy article today tackled this debate.........

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/And-now-your-daily-update-on-Bats-who-should-be-;_ylt=Ap5uTndUABfYj8kUbsTLlvBNC5kB?urn=fantasy,824 44

BLEEDS
05-15-2008, 05:06 PM
Yahoo Fantasy article today tackled this debate.........

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/And-now-your-daily-update-on-Bats-who-should-be-;_ylt=Ap5uTndUABfYj8kUbsTLlvBNC5kB?urn=fantasy,824 44

Just in case you were wondering how Homer Bailey felt about pitching for the Louisville Bats, here's a short, well-crafted update from the Dayton Daily News' Marc Katz:

Bailey, 22, expected not only to make the Reds, but to be in the rotation. Instead, he ended up in Louisville. He accepted the assignment, but does not like to talk about it.

Asked Tuesday if he had learned anything pitching in Louisville, Bailey said "no" and walked away.



He needs to learn how to quit being such a PUNK, that's his problem. All the word out is that he's hard-headed and uncoachable. He NEEDS to learn not to shake off the catcher and put his meatball fastball down the middle to Major Leaguers. He's probably NOT learning that in AAA, because he ccan get away with it there.

I feel sorry for the kid. NOT!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BlastFurnace
05-15-2008, 05:24 PM
Just in case you were wondering how Homer Bailey felt about pitching for the Louisville Bats, here's a short, well-crafted update from the Dayton Daily News' Marc Katz:

Bailey, 22, expected not only to make the Reds, but to be in the rotation. Instead, he ended up in Louisville. He accepted the assignment, but does not like to talk about it.

Asked Tuesday if he had learned anything pitching in Louisville, Bailey said "no" and walked away.



He needs to learn how to quit being such a PUNK, that's his problem. All the word out is that he's hard-headed and uncoachable. He NEEDS to learn not to shake off the catcher and put his meatball fastball down the middle to Major Leaguers. He's probably NOT learning that in AAA, because he ccan get away with it there.

I feel sorry for the kid. NOT!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I have heard that Marty B. has even commented on this kids "I know it all" attitude.

Does anyone know how fast he does throw? Last year, he was all the rage of Reds fans to get him up, but IMO, he doesn't compare with Volquez or Cueto.

Slyder
05-15-2008, 08:18 PM
Maybe Jay Bruce needs to take a page out of Chris Bosh's book and post a video on youtube? and put a bunch of his highlights and stats on it to get noticed.

Might I suggest....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IQ4IzLHorY

jmac
05-15-2008, 08:30 PM
Just in case you were wondering how Homer Bailey felt about pitching for the Louisville Bats, here's a short, well-crafted update from the Dayton Daily News' Marc Katz:

Bailey, 22, expected not only to make the Reds, but to be in the rotation. Instead, he ended up in Louisville. He accepted the assignment, but does not like to talk about it.

Asked Tuesday if he had learned anything pitching in Louisville, Bailey said "no" and walked away.



He needs to learn how to quit being such a PUNK, that's his problem. All the word out is that he's hard-headed and uncoachable. He NEEDS to learn not to shake off the catcher and put his meatball fastball down the middle to Major Leaguers. He's probably NOT learning that in AAA, because he ccan get away with it there.

I feel sorry for the kid. NOT!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

You know,there are some kids that seem to make it hard for people to root for.
Bailey is one of those if all the reports are accurate.

lidspinner
05-15-2008, 08:51 PM
I cant vouch for every report out there but my daughter did hit him up for an autograph while I was grabbing a brat and according to perfect strangers around us, he told her he was busy and kind of shook his head and rolled his eyes.....several other players were signing......My girl is 9 years old and her name is Bailey so she is in love with Homer, or should I say WAS in love with Homer. I truly hope the kid gets up here and changes our minds.

Ghosts of 1990
05-15-2008, 11:10 PM
Homer is a total punk... I've heard it from a lot of people. Doesn't mean he can't make us a winner... he's just like any other human in this world, b/c he is a ballplayer doesn't mean he's friendly. Not everyone is like Dunn or Hamilton.

Krovvy Red
05-16-2008, 01:34 PM
Yeah no avatars, game threads, negative comments, overly positive comments, or anything coming close to an edgy post.

Its like elementary school but without the snack packs and recess.

Wow, my first day on the site and already a snack packs reference. Kudos, sir.

Krovvy Red
05-16-2008, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure if things have changed this year, but Homer was known as the cockiest guy in the clubhouse in Louisville last year. That's not always a bad thing (a little swagger is great), but his attitude seems to be less about what he can learn now to be a great pitcher and more about how great he already is. Basically, this is what makes him a thrower and keeps him from being a pitcher.

_Sir_Charles_
05-16-2008, 10:24 PM
Bruce update. Game one of tonites DH....0-3. (homer got shelled in this game too.)
Game 2...2-2 with another dinger...so far. 4th or 5th inning right now.

This kids' GOT to get the call up soon. If you're gonna bring up a kid, do it when he's in a groove. And nobody (except maybe lance berkman) is in a groove like Jay is.

LouisvilleCARDS
05-16-2008, 11:15 PM
You know,there are some kids that seem to make it hard for people to root for.
Bailey is one of those if all the reports are accurate.

Maybe its worth a shot just to bring him up and let him get rocked a couple times to humble him, if he's got that kind of attitude. Wow, I didn't know the guy was such a whiny little you-know-what. :thumbdown

jmac
05-16-2008, 11:27 PM
Maybe its worth a shot just to bring him up and let him get rocked a couple times to humble him, if he's got that kind of attitude. Wow, I didn't know the guy was such a whiny little you-know-what. :thumbdown

You would think ST should have done the trick(humbling). Again, if these reports are accurate.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 07:26 AM
Back to Bruce... wouldn't he be contributing more than Corey Patterson, who's not really even playing anymore? The organization keeping patterson up here is just them being stubborn and trying not to look stupid.

Chi-Town Red
05-17-2008, 08:24 AM
Back to Bruce... wouldn't he be contributing more than Corey Patterson, who's not really even playing anymore? The organization keeping patterson up here is just them being stubborn and trying not to look stupid.you have it exactly right JB

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 09:46 AM
The last thing I can figure; is that the Reds are waiting till Bruce's Super 2 arbitration date passes but they just don't wanna come out and say it. That the decision is strictly financially influenced.

That said..... does anyone know when Jay Bruce's super 2 date is exactly, so we can keep an eye on it and monitor when it will be?

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 09:55 AM
A rival scout’s assessment of Bruce after watching him several times in Louisville: “Why isn’t he in Cincinnati?

“I’ve seen very few balls jump off the bat they way they do on Bruce. I saw him pull an inside fastball from a lefthanded pitcher over the right field fence. I saw him hit a slider into the left field seats. I saw him hit a change-up that was still on the rise when it cleared the center field fence.

“I had been told he couldn’t play center field. He can, better than anybody they have now. He can play all three outfield positions. He has everything but speed and his instincts are so good he gets great jumps on balls.

“I never saw a ball go over his head and stay in the park and I never saw one fall in front of him and he caught everything in the gaps,” he said. “He’d be playing center field for my team right now and we have a good center fielder.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/05/16/good_johnny_bad_johnny.html


Wow.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 09:59 AM
And I just saw this:

http://louisville.bats.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2008_05_16_swbaaa_louaaa_2&did=t416&sid=t416

Bruce went 2 for 3 in the nightcap of a double header last night, with you guessed it, another HR (9) and another stolen base (He has 8 in 8 chances).

Now hitting .364

jmac
05-17-2008, 10:10 AM
And I just saw this:

http://louisville.bats.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=g_box&gid=2008_05_16_swbaaa_louaaa_2&did=t416&sid=t416

Bruce went 2 for 3 in the nightcap of a double header last night, with you guessed it, another HR (9) and another stolen base (He has 8 in 8 chances).

Now hitting .364

Cincy must look pretty silly to alot of people right now.
I mean, last year he is basically the minor league player of the year. This season he is hitting well over 300 and "still" in triple A.
Wow !
I would say to any Louisville Bats fans, you need to see this kid now cause surely he will be in Cincy before too long.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm just really wondering when this 'Super 2' date is... I've heard june 1st, can anyone confirm? If so, circle june 2 on your calendars...

jmac
05-17-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm just really wondering when this 'Super 2' date is... I've heard june 1st, can anyone confirm? If so, circle june 2 on your calendars...

I heard someone refer to it the other day as a couple of weeks but not sure other than that.

texasdave
05-17-2008, 11:37 AM
There is no clearly defined 'Super Two' date. Normally a player has to have three years of service time to be eligible for arbitration. However, after two years they take the top 1/6th of the players in service time and then, basically, treat them as if they have 3 years. It makes them eligible for arbitration a year sooner than they would otherwise. That is a brief and probably incomplete synopsis. In another thread someone stated that, going by past history, that date is going to be somewhere around the middle of June. But it could be sooner or later depending on how many players are called up to the big leagues and when. I think a club still controls a player for six years. I don't think the player is granted free agency any sooner. But I am not completely certain on that point.

goreds2
05-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Back to Bruce... wouldn't he be contributing more than Corey Patterson, who's not really even playing anymore?

Probably not. Bruce would not be able to attempt a bunt every other at bat. :bang:

On a positive note, last nights game was a blast watching. The crowd was in it and the players responded well against the tribe. :thumbup:

Hondo
05-17-2008, 12:47 PM
There was an article in the Enquier in the last couple of days talking about how Bruce doesn't have a Place to play until Griffey is traded and that royally upsets me...

Corey Paterson doesn't have to PLAY at all...

I didn't see the point of the article, unless we are building around Patterson, which is not only Improbable, IMPOSSIBLE. So I can't wait for Dunn, Bruce, and Griffey to be in the Outfield and see what happens...

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 01:12 PM
There was an article in the Enquier in the last couple of days talking about how Bruce doesn't have a Place to play until Griffey is traded and that royally upsets me...

Corey Paterson doesn't have to PLAY at all...

I didn't see the point of the article, unless we are building around Patterson, which is not only Improbable, IMPOSSIBLE. So I can't wait for Dunn, Bruce, and Griffey to be in the Outfield and see what happens...


I'm starting to believe it won't happen dude.

Hondo
05-17-2008, 01:22 PM
I'm starting to believe it won't happen dude.

Yeah, but really. Go read that article. It makes no sense...

Basically saying that Griffey is Road Blocking Bruce????

I was astonished and PO'd...

I understand the FO wanting Jayn Bruce to go get his confidence up in AAA, and bringing him along, ala Ryan Braun from lat year...

But that article really irked me... Griffey isn't stopping Bruce from being in Cincinnati...

The one thing I Liked in the article was where Griffey to Krivisky he prefered to stay in Cincinnati and try and Win a Championship! Love it!

steig
05-17-2008, 01:36 PM
I'm just really wondering when this 'Super 2' date is... I've heard june 1st, can anyone confirm? If so, circle june 2 on your calendars...

I think waiting for his super two status to pass is pointless move. If Bruce is the real deal and if the Reds are smart they will follow in the trend of other small market teams and lock him up to a long term deal at the beginning or in the middle of his second year. Similar to what the Brewers just did with Braun or how Tampa is locking up all there young studs.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 02:02 PM
I think waiting for his super two status to pass is pointless move. If Bruce is the real deal and if the Reds are smart they will follow in the trend of other small market teams and lock him up to a long term deal at the beginning or in the middle of his second year. Similar to what the Brewers just did with Braun or how Tampa is locking up all there young studs.

I been yelling this for a couple weeks man. Great point. It just doesn't make sense to me anymore. :confused: I wanna see this kid and I wanna see him NOW. No more patience!

jmac
05-17-2008, 02:11 PM
I think waiting for his super two status to pass is pointless move. If Bruce is the real deal and if the Reds are smart they will follow in the trend of other small market teams and lock him up to a long term deal at the beginning or in the middle of his second year. Similar to what the Brewers just did with Braun or how Tampa is locking up all there young studs.
I was thinking same thing earlier today using Braun as an example.

_Sir_Charles_
05-17-2008, 03:37 PM
There was an article in the Enquier in the last couple of days talking about how Bruce doesn't have a Place to play until Griffey is traded and that royally upsets me...

Corey Paterson doesn't have to PLAY at all...

I didn't see the point of the article, unless we are building around Patterson, which is not only Improbable, IMPOSSIBLE. So I can't wait for Dunn, Bruce, and Griffey to be in the Outfield and see what happens...

The point was very simple really. The press is totally convinced (by scouts or bloggers?) that Bruce is a CORNER outfielder, not a center fielder. Hmmmm...odd that Jay is playing center 70-80% of the time in Louisville. Screw the super two date. Bring him up NOW, bench Corey (or dunn or griffey for that matter and play freel & bruce). Then sign him to a long term contract before arbitration sets in. Quite simple really. Just look what the Brewcrew did with Braun.

I'm just waiting and hoping that someone can finally explain to me why, if Jay's not a centerfielder, is he playing center so much for the Bats instead of getting regular playing time at the RF spot they say he's destined for. Please...anybody. *sigh*

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 05:07 PM
The point was very simple really. The press is totally convinced (by scouts or bloggers?) that Bruce is a CORNER outfielder, not a center fielder. Hmmmm...odd that Jay is playing center 70-80% of the time in Louisville. Screw the super two date. Bring him up NOW, bench Corey (or dunn or griffey for that matter and play freel & bruce). Then sign him to a long term contract before arbitration sets in. Quite simple really. Just look what the Brewcrew did with Braun.

I'm just waiting and hoping that someone can finally explain to me why, if Jay's not a centerfielder, is he playing center so much for the Bats instead of getting regular playing time at the RF spot they say he's destined for. Please...anybody. *sigh*

another great post.. that cut and dry, makes too much sense. :thumbup:

Slyder
05-17-2008, 05:38 PM
Im so glad we have Mr. Out in a hurry in our leadoff spot. Twice today he lead off and seen 1 pitch then Hairston gets a hit. Imagine what might have been if we didnt have that whale dragging down the entire lineup. Production starts at the top and Bruce needs to come up and Patterson sent packing if Baker refuses to change his use of Mr. Automatic Out in a hurry.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 07:02 PM
The win today was sweeter because with every 0 for 4 from Corey 'no hit' Patterson; it becomes more painfully obvious there is an injustice going on.

_Sir_Charles_
05-17-2008, 07:13 PM
Don't get your hopes up. Because you just know he'll have another 4 for 5 and earn another months worth of leading off. :bang:

goreds2
05-18-2008, 01:05 PM
According to this article, the Reds are delaying bringing up Bruce due to money reasons.


http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080518/SPT04/805180425/


With his .366 batting average, .398 on-base average and .662 slugging percentage, Bruce will be here within a few weeks, when he won't trigger an early arbitration date and cost the Reds millions more.

Ghosts of 1990
05-18-2008, 03:31 PM
lets just hope for a June 1 call up....

....or at least by the yankees series in the bronx.... when i get to travel there and see the series

James B.
05-18-2008, 08:16 PM
The way some of the other Reds players are starting to hit, they could have some major firepower by the end of the year when Bruce gets called up.

Ghosts of 1990
05-18-2008, 09:03 PM
It shouldn't be the end of the year james.

it should be now. He homered again today. 2 more hits.

jmac
05-18-2008, 10:09 PM
362 avg w/ 10 hrs.
I am no Jr basher.
I joined the redszone in 07 and have been a Jr fan long before that.
I will say this though.
I think we could put Bruce in Jr's spot or 5th or wherever and we would see better #'s by the end of the year than Jr. Now, understand I am not knocking Jr. I mean the guy is 38 and now headed toward 39. Common sense and past history tells us that people begin to slow down as they get older and I think Jr is. Actually for the remainder of this year I would like to see Bruce in CF till he takes over for Jr but I doubt that will happen.
Anyway, as stated before, the former minor league player of the year and putting up these #'s again makes for interesting talk around baseball.
Reckon any baseball officials are saying something like " Bruce was untouchable last winter and yet you guys still have him at Triple A :dunno:"

Hondo
05-18-2008, 10:52 PM
Um, Bruce being kept there over Money has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard of...

Bringing him up now though while the team has a Winning atmosphere would be the Optimal time to do so...

Better now than 2 weeks ago while the Reds were Losing every day...

gedred69
05-18-2008, 10:52 PM
I don't know whether anyone else has posted this, but I went to the Bats site for stats, and then the league stats. Bruce is dominating in Avg., and in the top 3-4 in the league for HRs, RBIs, SLG. In the latter categories the guys that are ahead of him are AAAA lifetime players. 28-30 yrs. old. Bruce is golden, and stiffling him in AAA must cease!! Holding him back will be a bigger travesty than holding back Votto was last year.

Ghosts of 1990
05-18-2008, 11:04 PM
IT's getting ridiculous. It just shows you that winning doesn't come first with this organization. That is sad.

fugowitribe
05-18-2008, 11:13 PM
I think the Reds are trying to give Jr. a chance to get to 600 before making him split time with Bruce. I don't think they have any intention of putting him in Center with the Way Patterson is playing on Defense. I see this situation as an incentive for Griffey Jr. The Reds are telling Jr. that all he has to do to get back to Seattle is hit 600 and he will be on the next flight out of Cincy.

Hondo
05-18-2008, 11:35 PM
I think the Reds are trying to give Jr. a chance to get to 600 before making him split time with Bruce. I don't think they have any intention of putting him in Center with the Way Patterson is playing on Defense. I see this situation as an incentive for Griffey Jr. The Reds are telling Jr. that all he has to do to get back to Seattle is hit 600 and he will be on the next flight out of Cincy.

This team is better with Bruce in Center and Griffey in Right, than Patterson in left and Bruce in Right...

_Sir_Charles_
05-18-2008, 11:58 PM
I think the Reds are trying to give Jr. a chance to get to 600 before making him split time with Bruce. I don't think they have any intention of putting him in Center with the Way Patterson is playing on Defense. I see this situation as an incentive for Griffey Jr. The Reds are telling Jr. that all he has to do to get back to Seattle is hit 600 and he will be on the next flight out of Cincy.

I agree that they're wanting to give Jr. time to hit his dinger. That's fine. But they're also giving him time to get out of his current funk. It's a slump. Every player has them. Junior's has just come at a bad time. But, that being said, it is probably time to move on from him...600 hr's or not. The long term future of this club does not hinge on Griffey, it hinges on our young core talent. And a rather large piece of that is languishing down in Louisville. Now I'm not some homer who thinks that bringing up Jay Bruce is going to turn our season around and vault us into the playoffs. You'd be naive to think he'll hit at the same pace in the bigs as he is down in AAA. But this club has got a really solid chance to WIN this division come next season. But in order for that to happen, Jay needs to start getting acclamated to MLB pitching THIS year. I don't think anyone wants to see his learning curve period still going on next season.

So yes, I do agree with many here to some extent. Jay does need to be brought up regardless of the "super 2" status or arbitration concerns. And Ken needs to be dealt elsewhere. I think my biggest disagreement with most here is that Junior doesn't need to be "kicked" out or "dumped". He's one of, if not THE, greatest pure talent the game has ever seen. He's a fantastic role-model for the youngsters. And he's earned the right to be treated with respect by this franchise and these fans. He needs to be allowed to leave on his terms. And Junior is smart enough (and a big enough FAN of the Reds himself) to know what's best for both him AND for the Reds. He knows the end is coming...and any true competitor doesn't want that to arrive anytime soon.

And lastly...Junior is not who's holding back Bruce. The Reds F.O. is. If they wanted him up here, he'd be here. Corey Patterson is more than likely a better defensive centerfielder than Jay, but Jay's bat more than makes up for that slight edge Corey has on him. So if the Reds want to give Junior his shot at 600 and leaving on his terms, fine. But get Jay up here regardless and sit Corey.

BLEEDS
05-20-2008, 10:42 AM
According to this article, the Reds are delaying bringing up Bruce due to money reasons.


http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080518/SPT04/805180425/


With his .366 batting average, .398 on-base average and .662 slugging percentage, Bruce will be here within a few weeks, when he won't trigger an early arbitration date and cost the Reds millions more.

SHOCKING!!! :mooner::mooner::yikes::yikes:

or not...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-20-2008, 10:44 AM
This team is better with Bruce in Center and Griffey in Right, than Patterson in left and Bruce in Right...

I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, I think we have only one TRUE CF-er on this team, and it's CF Patterson.

We need a long-term answer for CF for sure, but it's not Bruce. No way we can live with that outfield Defense for even a slightly-more-than-short term.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

44Magnum
05-20-2008, 01:14 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, I think we have only one TRUE CF-er on this team, and it's CF Patterson.

We need a long-term answer for CF for sure, but it's not Bruce. No way we can live with that outfield Defense for even a slightly-more-than-short term.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Good post.

Ghosts of 1990
05-20-2008, 02:04 PM
Jr will never accept or be forced into a part time role or bench player. Get serious peeps.

I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I'm not sure that would even be right.

Ghosts of 1990
05-20-2008, 02:05 PM
June 12th is the date that I keep hearing that will not go away. Everyone is saying Bruce's arrival is on or before June 12th.....

lidspinner
05-20-2008, 09:48 PM
whats sad is he culd be helping this team today. I guess I understand teh whole "super2" thing but I also know that JB could be doing big things for us NOW, he could also get up here and pee down his leg, I would rather find that out now rather than later.
Ther are strong valid points either way you want to take this argument, the way I am seeing it is as a fan first....I want to win and I want to win NOW.

Hondo
05-26-2008, 11:15 AM
Does anyone want to start a collection Jar to help the Reds pay for his Super 2 status if the Front Office agrees to bring him up Tuesday and DFA Corey "Dudepick Jr." Patterson?

Ghosts of 1990
05-26-2008, 11:27 AM
Does anyone want to start a collection Jar to help the Reds pay for his Super 2 status if the Front Office agrees to bring him up Tuesday and DFA Corey "Dudepick Jr." Patterson?

If they do it, I'll never complain for the rest of the season about anything with this organization.

If they don't I honestly lose all faith. There could be no time with a greater chance of it happening.

PTI (pti)
05-26-2008, 06:03 PM
Soooo......does Bruce bat 7th or 8th tomorrow???

:rolleyes:

Blue
05-26-2008, 06:09 PM
Soooo......does Bruce bat 7th or 8th tomorrow???

:rolleyes:

It might take some sort of miracle for him to not be hitting first or second. That's where Dusty plays his centerfielder and shortstop even if the centerfielder is Corey Patterson. Of course, Bruce is a far better choice at leadoff than Patterson, although he'll ideally be hitting somewhere closer to the middle of the order.

Ghosts of 1990
05-26-2008, 09:30 PM
who gets cut loose

PTI (pti)
05-26-2008, 09:45 PM
As much as I love him, Scott Hatteberg probably makes the most sense. His *only* position is 1st base (b/c of his shoulder), and he can only hit against righties. Not to mention, he's probably the cheapest player to get rid of.


(cant believe i'm saying this, but....)


He's more expendable than Fogg, Belisle, Dudepick Jr, etc.


Hatteberg does seem tradeable, though.

fugowitribe
05-26-2008, 09:47 PM
Is it too late for Bruce to help the Reds win this year?

Ghosts of 1990
05-26-2008, 10:19 PM
Is it too late for Bruce to help the Reds win this year?

no way. He'll help immediately.

So.Many.Weapons

HBP
05-26-2008, 10:43 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, I think we have only one TRUE CF-er on this team, and it's CF Patterson.

We need a long-term answer for CF for sure, but it's not Bruce. No way we can live with that outfield Defense for even a slightly-more-than-short term.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

And this is your opinion why? He's played 130 games in CF throughout his minor league career, far more than RF or LF. You make it sound like he'd be a failure there without any reasoning.

Slyder
05-26-2008, 10:48 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Unfortunately, I think we have only one TRUE CF-er on this team, and it's CF Patterson.

We need a long-term answer for CF for sure, but it's not Bruce. No way we can live with that outfield Defense for even a slightly-more-than-short term.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

People said Hamilton couldnt handle CF last year too. Looks like he's doing just fine so far. Bruce has played a lot in CF and its way too shortsided to just up and say he's not a CF. If he wasnt capable of being a CF I'm sure he wouldnt have a ton of games there.

Ghosts of 1990
05-26-2008, 11:53 PM
wasn't long ago stalky austin kearns played CF for us.... Bruce will be better than fine.

Kingspoint
05-27-2008, 03:22 AM
And this is your opinion why? He's played 130 games in CF throughout his minor league career, far more than RF or LF. You make it sound like he'd be a failure there without any reasoning.

That's 100 more games than Jerry Hairston Junior played in the minors and 123 more than he had played in the minors in the last 8 years, yet Baker had no problem throwing him out there. He would have been just as well off putting Hatteberg at SS.

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 09:32 AM
I still believe that long-term we need a TRUE CF-er. Don't know if you guys watched many games lately, but offense hasn't been our issue.

We need Pitching and Defense. Replacing Patterson with Bruce is not going to help our D. Having him replace KGJ - yassir!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

HBP
05-27-2008, 11:32 AM
I still believe that long-term we need a TRUE CF-er. Don't know if you guys watched many games lately, but offense hasn't been our issue.

We need Pitching and Defense. Replacing Patterson with Bruce is not going to help our D. Having him replace KGJ - yassir!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Consistent offense is definitely a problem for this team.

Patterson has one skill set that's better than Bruce: speed.
Bruce has a better arm than Patterson. Those don't equal out, but IMO Bruce will at least be an average fielder.

Drew Stubbs may be the true CF of the future, but until he can consistently hit the ball, I don't think we'll see him any time soon.

Ghosts of 1990
05-27-2008, 12:34 PM
7 hours guys.... Can't wait till my work day ends at 3:00 and i can start sailing towards the park from Cbus.

Trackman20
05-27-2008, 01:57 PM
I"m very excited to watch the game tonight.

Votto and Bruce will be a very solid tandem for years to come, and we get to see it take shape starting tonight!