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View Full Version : Tonight's Lineup 5/13/08



757690
05-13-2008, 04:05 PM
Via Shannon Russell of the Enquirer


Tonight's lineup

Ryan Freel cf
Jeff Keppinger ss
Brandon Phillips 2b
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Jerry Hairston Jr. rf
Adam Dunn lf
David Ross c
Edinson Volquez p

v. LH Mark Hendrickson
posted by Shannon Russell at 3:31 PM

schmidty622
05-13-2008, 04:13 PM
I find it amazing that Dusty decided to keep Patterson out of the lineup after his 4-5 day yesterday. Maybe he doesn't love Patty all that much.

Other than that though, why in the world is Dunn hitting behind Hairston Jr?

Oh and, In before the lock.

Nasty_Boy
05-13-2008, 04:16 PM
The Reds need Kepp, BP, and EE to keep hitting left handers. Not a huge fan of the lineup, but whatever.:sleep:

Jones1
05-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Other than that though, why in the world is Dunn hitting behind Hairston Jr?

To break up the only two lefties in the lineup. Hendrickson has pretty good numbers against lefthanded hitters and this team has been anemic in the past against lefties.

This is a darn good lineup, first really good lineup Ive seen Dusty put together all year long. We're going to score alot of runs tonight boys!

This game is a winner unless EV gets shelled which(knock on wood)I doubt happens. But this Marlins O is pretty good. Im excited for this one! Get your popcorn ready...

Blue
05-13-2008, 04:54 PM
We might as well let Dunn go if Dusty isn't going to use him properly.

muethibp
05-13-2008, 05:16 PM
We might as well let Dunn go if Dusty isn't going to use him properly.

Seriously. What's the point of putting him in a spot where he will get, if he's lucky, two hittable pitches all game?

Javy Pornstache
05-13-2008, 05:25 PM
I find it funny that Dunn has the exact number of RBI + runs as Griffey, yet has 15% less outs made while batting mostly in stupid spots in the order and Griffey is always protected. But hey, we won yesterday, so let's keep Dunn in 7th, cause THAT'S why we won.

FlightRick
05-13-2008, 05:34 PM
Lost in all the fairly predictable whining and kvetching is something actually interesting:

This will be the first time all year that Volquez is *not* caught by Bako, following seven consecutive collaborations of theirs consisting of one earned run or less.

I'm only partially joking when I say, "If things go wonky tonight, I'm blaming David Ross. And by extension, blaming Dusty for starting Ross."


Rick

Handofdeath
05-13-2008, 05:44 PM
We might as well let Dunn go if Dusty isn't going to use him properly.

Using Dunn properly is not the problem here. Dunn's inability to put the bat on the ball is the problem and the excuses for not doing so have run out.

Hondo
05-13-2008, 05:53 PM
Using Dunn properly is not the problem here. Dunn's inability to put the bat on the ball is the problem and the excuses for not doing so have run out.

Dude, Dunn doesn't get any Pitches to hit. Every team know he is the most dangerous Hitter on the team, and are not going to throw him anything likely he can Pull cause if they walk him, oh well, The next guy ain't going to hurt us...

But wait, Bat Paul Bako behind him? Nice...

Jones1
05-13-2008, 06:01 PM
Using Dunn properly is not the problem here. Dunn's inability to put the bat on the ball is the problem and the excuses for not doing so have run out.

Agreed until his BA gets up to atleast 265 I don't want to see him any higher than the 6th hole.

Votto, Phillips, and even Edwin have proved they should be 456 or 345.
Griff will never be lower in the order then the 4 hole because he's a future hall of famer. Like it or not thats Dusty's mentality.

So where do you bat Dunn, not in leadoff and surely not in the two spot where Kepp has pretty much solidified himself for the rest of the season as far as im concerned. Until he hits better than Phillips, Votto or Encarnacion why bat him higher than any of them?

Right now the 7 spot is where Dunn should be!

Jack Burton
05-13-2008, 06:02 PM
Good to see Griffey getting a rest, he needs it after last night.

Blue
05-13-2008, 06:14 PM
I make no excuses for him. He's having a bad season. He's still been the best hitter on this team for the past six years. I can't help but get the feeling that many of you are using his failures the first six weeks of this season as evidence that you've been right all along. You have actually been wrong all along, and I'm waiting for him to prove you wrong again.

Jones1
05-13-2008, 06:20 PM
I hope he comes back along. I like Adam Dunn but right now the guy isnt getting it done and just becasue he has in the past doesnt mean he should bat higher than the guys who are. If it was up to me Id bat Jr much lower too right now. But that will never happen with Dusty. Hopefully this demotion in the lineup gets Dunn motivated, It already seems like it has in the last few games.

Speaking of demotions Griff has hit pretty good in his career against Hendrickson, do you think his D last night is why he isnt playing in this game? I'd say yes..

Jack Burton
05-13-2008, 06:21 PM
I make no excuses for him. He's having a bad season. He's still been the best hitter on this team for the past six years. I can't help but get the feeling that many of you are using his failures the first six weeks of this season as evidence that you've been right all along. You have actually been wrong all along, and I'm waiting for him to prove you wrong again.

That's gonna be a long wait.

James B.
05-13-2008, 06:29 PM
I hope he comes back along. I like Adam Dunn but right now the guy isnt getting it done and just becasue he has in the past doesnt mean he should bat higher than the guys who are. If it was up to me Id bat Jr much lower too right now. But that will never happen with Dusty. Hopefully this demotion in the lineup gets Dunn motivated, It already seems like it has in the last few games.

Speaking of demotions Griff has hit pretty good in his career against Hendrickson, do you think his D last night is why he isnt playing in this game? I'd say yes..

Good post. Dunn is not hitting like he has in previous years and I think he will come around. He is batting where he should be until he starts hitting. I don't think people should make excuses for Dunn, and I don't think that he would make excuses. Albert P. doesn't have any protection and sees few good pitches but he continues to hit.

fielder's choice
05-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Good post. Dunn is not hitting like he has in previous years and I think he will come around. He is batting where he should be until he starts hitting. I don't think people should make excuses for Dunn, and I don't think that he would make excuses. Albert P. doesn't have any protection and sees few good pitches but he continues to hit.

That's because he is Albert Pujols, he can hit just about anything. Dunn can't. The reason his OBP is still up but his slugging is not is because they pitch around him. If they have to pitch to him, he will hit bombs like he always has.

Jones1
05-13-2008, 06:44 PM
He's been pitched to this season he's just failed to hit it where the d isnt.

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 06:57 PM
I make no excuses for him. He's having a bad season. He's still been the best hitter on this team for the past six years. I can't help but get the feeling that many of you are using his failures the first six weeks of this season as evidence that you've been right all along. You have actually been wrong all along, and I'm waiting for him to prove you wrong again.


Touche' my good man!!!

There's a HUGE/LONG post over in the ORG that pretty much debunks every myth about Dunn and his "lack of RBI for his 40 HR's"/"inability to deliver with RISP"/etc, etc... and SteelSD ran some comparisons on his % of runners scored in RISP situations that BLOWS every argument against him out of the water (basically, he drives in a large % of his runners, problem is there AREN"T THAT MANY RUNNERS ON compared to other teams who - wait for it - put high OBP GUYS in front of these types of players, and - wait, wait - DON"T BAT THEM 5-to-7 IN THE LINEUP).

Dunn's NEVER had a problem with driving runners in, and PRODUCES more runs than just about anyone, even though he's batting 5th instead of 3-4 like all the guys everyone wants to compare him to.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 07:10 PM
He's been pitched to this season he's just failed to hit it where the d isnt.

He has had a pretty lousy BABIP this year. He WILL turn it around. However, batting him 7th isn't going to help him, because he's NOT going to see any better pitches there.

He continues to get walks, because of where he's at in the lineup, but that's been the case for - approximately 6 years - and he's still produced.

Actually, with that bum toe and against a LH-er, I can live with Dunn batting 7th for now. However, that is about the only way it can be substantiated. Even though he's 4 for 8 against Hendrickson, the kind of stats DUHSTY DOES pay attention to, so it is kind of odd...

He's still OBP-ing better than EE/Votto/BP/KGJ, but his slugging is way down.
And, as crappy as he's doing, he's still out OPS-ing KGJ by like 40 pts, yet KGJ gets to stay in the cushy 3 hole with guys on base in front of him and good hitters behind him, and still can't keep pace with Dunn in any statistical category other than the overly-hyped BA.

When you're #2 hitter leads your team in RBI's, you know there's a problem with your lineup construction.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Jones1
05-13-2008, 07:11 PM
that still doesnt explain his 206 avg this year. Numbers aside the guy isnt htting the ball where the D isnt..

Jones1
05-13-2008, 07:13 PM
He has had a pretty lousy BABIP this year. He WILL turn it around. However, batting him 7th isn't going to help him, because he's NOT going to see any better pitches there.

He continues to get walks, because of where he's at in the lineup, but that's been the case for - approximately 6 years - and he's still produced.

Actually, with that bum toe and against a LH-er, I can live with Dunn batting 7th for now. However, that is about the only way it can be substantiated. Even though he's 4 for 8 against Hendrickson, the kind of stats DUHSTY DOES pay attention to, so it is kind of odd...

He's still OBP-ing better than EE/Votto/BP/KGJ, but his slugging is way down.
And, as crappy as he's doing, he's still out OPS-ing KGJ by like 40 pts, yet KGJ gets to stay in the cushy 3 hole with guys on base in front of him and good hitters behind him, and still can't keep pace with Dunn in any statistical category other than the overly-hyped BA.

When you're #2 hitter leads your team in RBI's, you know there's a problem with your lineup construction.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

His obp is 2 points higher than EE but EE is hitting 55 points higher and slugging 100 points higher..

Jones1
05-13-2008, 07:15 PM
He has had a pretty lousy BABIP this year. He WILL turn it around. However, batting him 7th isn't going to help him, because he's NOT going to see any better pitches there.

He continues to get walks, because of where he's at in the lineup, but that's been the case for - approximately 6 years - and he's still produced.

Actually, with that bum toe and against a LH-er, I can live with Dunn batting 7th for now. However, that is about the only way it can be substantiated. Even though he's 4 for 8 against Hendrickson, the kind of stats DUHSTY DOES pay attention to, so it is kind of odd...

He's still OBP-ing better than EE/Votto/BP/KGJ, but his slugging is way down.
And, as crappy as he's doing, he's still out OPS-ing KGJ by like 40 pts, yet KGJ gets to stay in the cushy 3 hole with guys on base in front of him and good hitters behind him, and still can't keep pace with Dunn in any statistical category other than the overly-hyped BA.

When you're #2 hitter leads your team in RBI's, you know there's a problem with your lineup construction.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I totaly agree about your assesment with Jr. but Dusty will never bat him lowere than the 4 hole its just not gonna happen..

thorn
05-13-2008, 07:20 PM
Lefties are hitting .167 agains Hendrickson this year, Dunn is hitting .161 against lefties this year. Do you really need to ask why Dunn is hitting 7th today? I'm suprised he is even in the lineup. In fact, if Hopper were available, he'd be starting over Dunn today IMO. And please stop talking about Dunn's past as the reason he should be batting a certain spot in the lineup today, teams don't let you use past stats for present use. He's hitting where he is now because of the present, when he start performing like he has in the past, then he should and probably will be moved up. Besides, I didn't see that junk balling RH yesterday pitch around Dunn, whonder why?

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 07:22 PM
that still doesnt explain his 206 avg this year. Numbers aside the guy isnt htting the ball where the D isnt..

I just said his BABIP is WAY DOWN - that does explain why he isn't hitting the ball where the D isn't. You are aware of what BABIP is right?

Right now, Dunn's is about 60 pts lower than his career average.

Some people argure that BABIP is a factor of randomness of the game, the "luck factor" if you will, but there's no arguing that he is struggling, especially in the power department, but I believe someone noted that if his BABIP was in line with his career norms, he'd be batting .270 right now.

IMO, he's "just missing" on a lot of his swings - resulting in pop-ups, long fly ball outs instead of HR's, etc - and he is a BIT unlucky with some of the balls he is putting into play. Unlucky - sure. Struggling - you betcha. Will it last - I wouldn't bet on it.

I also think the approach to hitting that Dusty has employed - being overly aggressive - is hurting a lot of hitters approach to the game. While BA may be up for some players, for most the OBP is down - and high OBP leads to more overall runs than just pure BA. That is why our offense struggled for so long. Dunn is a prime example of someone who doesn't truly benefit - either personally, or for his team, by being "overly aggressive" in his approach at the plate. This, along with the other factors, is only lending to his continued struggles overall.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 07:27 PM
I totaly agree about your assesment with Jr. but Dusty will never bat him lowere than the 4 hole its just not gonna happen..

Oh, I agree 100%. That's DUSHTY for ya.

That is why I am all for trading KGJ - as much as I love the guy - however, I am only afraid from what DUHSTY said before, that "ideally" BP should bat 3rd. AYE YI YI!!! Wasn't it Paula Abdul who spoketh "I take 2 steps forward, I take 2 steps back"... :thumbdown

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-13-2008, 07:29 PM
Lefties are hitting .167 agains Hendrickson this year, Dunn is hitting .161 against lefties this year. Do you really need to ask why Dunn is hitting 7th today? I'm suprised he is even in the lineup. In fact, if Hopper were available, he'd be starting over Dunn today IMO. And please stop talking about Dunn's past as the reason he should be batting a certain spot in the lineup today, teams don't let you use past stats for present use. He's hitting where he is now because of the present, when he start performing like he has in the past, then he should and probably will be moved up. Besides, I didn't see that junk balling RH yesterday pitch around Dunn, whonder why?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but, um, have you seen who our manager is?!?!? That's why we have KGJ in the 3 hole and CF Patterson leading off...

Patterson was batting under .200 there for awhile - why wasn't he ever moved down? OH, he was - TO THE THREE HOLE!!! That makes sense.

Seriously, I don't even know why I let myself get worked up over it. Nothing we say or do - or the players do - can ever help you deal with the insanity.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

CWRed
05-13-2008, 08:01 PM
Touche' my good man!!!

There's a HUGE/LONG post over in the ORG that pretty much debunks every myth about Dunn and his "lack of RBI for his 40 HR's"/"inability to deliver with RISP"/etc, etc... and SteelSD ran some comparisons on his % of runners scored in RISP situations that BLOWS every argument against him out of the water (basically, he drives in a large % of his runners, problem is there AREN"T THAT MANY RUNNERS ON compared to other teams who - wait for it - put high OBP GUYS in front of these types of players, and - wait, wait - DON"T BAT THEM 5-to-7 IN THE LINEUP).

Dunn's NEVER had a problem with driving runners in, and PRODUCES more runs than just about anyone, even though he's batting 5th instead of 3-4 like all the guys everyone wants to compare him to.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

You are correct sir. Dunn haters will be Dunn haters.