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sivman17
09-06-2010, 01:12 PM
At first I didn't think 500 HRs would be enough for a guy like Adam Dunn to make the HOF. But, when you consider that there are only 25 guys in the 500-HR club, it's a pretty exclusive club. Of those 25 guys, 10 are not in the HOF. Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey, Frank Thomas, Palmeiro, Thome, ManRam, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa.

The only guys on that list not linked to roids are Griffey, Thomas, and Thome. These 3 guys are locks for the HOF in my opinion.

Even though I personally don't think 500 HRs should be an automatic ticket to the HOF, it does seem to be a magic number, as long as you never took steroids. I really do not consider Dunn a Hall of Famer, though.

jojo
09-06-2010, 01:14 PM
Assuming Adam reaches 500, he's probably going to need more on his resume than HRs...

westofyou
09-06-2010, 01:27 PM
Assuming Adam reaches 500, he's probably going to need more on his resume than HRs...

I'm thinking a Six Sigma leadership course might help.

buckeyenut
09-06-2010, 02:24 PM
At first I didn't think 500 HRs would be enough for a guy like Adam Dunn to make the HOF. But, when you consider that there are only 25 guys in the 500-HR club, it's a pretty exclusive club. Of those 25 guys, 10 are not in the HOF. Bonds, A-Rod, Griffey, Frank Thomas, Palmeiro, Thome, ManRam, Sheffield, McGwire, Sosa.

The only guys on that list not linked to roids are Griffey, Thomas, and Thome. These 3 guys are locks for the HOF in my opinion.

Even though I personally don't think 500 HRs should be an automatic ticket to the HOF, it does seem to be a magic number, as long as you never took steroids. I really do not consider Dunn a Hall of Famer, though.

I think 500 should be a lock. Dunn also has a career OPS of over .900, career OBP over .380 both which should help his cause. He also has been hitting >.260 the last two years. If he keeps that up, and keeps the strikeouts down from the 190+ of 2004 and 2006, I think the perception of him will continue to change, especially playing 1B where he isn't as noticably putrid with the glove as OF. And if he goes to AL to DH, even better.

All that said, I think he gets to 550 pretty easily and I think that string of 5 years in row with 40+ HRs helps his cause as well. He has been a top consistent power bat for many many years. I think he will get to hall easily. I also believe he has a legitimate shot of finishing his career ahead of Sosa on the alltime list.

IMO, Pujols and Arod are the only active guys ahead of Dunn likely to stay ahead of Dunn. So by that point, passing Sosa would put him at 8 alltime, which is where I think he lands.

Wheelhouse
09-06-2010, 02:28 PM
Currently #57 at 1,433, 4 ahead of Mo Vaughn. Youngest in the Top 100.

sivman17
09-06-2010, 02:33 PM
Wow, it's hard to believe he's already number 57. Or, it's very easy to believe. I'm not sure which one it is.

But he strikes out a lot.

Degenerate39
09-06-2010, 03:30 PM
What's Ryan Howard?

nate
09-06-2010, 03:46 PM
I really don't see a reason to start a thread like this. The HR thread was started when he was still a member of the Reds.

It seems like it has a basis rooted in mockery, IMO.

Ron Madden
09-06-2010, 03:50 PM
I really don't see a reason to start a thread like this. The HR thread was started when he was still a member of the Reds.

It seems like it has a basis rooted in mockery, IMO.

I with agree Nate. This thread is only mocking the fine work in the HR thread.

Redsfan320
09-06-2010, 03:50 PM
It seems like it has a basis rooted in mockery, IMO.

Absolutely.

320

OnBaseMachine
09-06-2010, 03:52 PM
I with agree Nate. This thread is only mocking the fine work in the HR thread.

Agreed.

reds44
09-06-2010, 03:54 PM
I don't see the problem with it.

cincrazy
09-06-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't see the problem with it.

Me neither. He's on an awesome HR pace, no doubt. And he's on a historic strikeout pace. That can't be argued.

WMR
09-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Horrible thread.

You want to post about his strikeout numbers, do it in the HR thread.

Don't need two threads tracking Adam Dunn accomplishments, especially when the second one was created with trolling in mind.

RichRed
09-06-2010, 04:05 PM
It seems like it has a basis rooted in mockery, IMO.

Of course it does.

reds1869
09-06-2010, 04:09 PM
Mockery by the OP or not (not really my place to chime in there), Dunn's strikeout totals are just as fascinating to me as his HR numbers. He is the prime example of how strikeouts can be pretty harmless when coupled with awesome power. Perhaps it belongs in the other thread but the strikeout totals definitely merit discussion.

Ron Madden
09-06-2010, 04:14 PM
The archives of RedsZone are full of discussion about strikeouts.

Mario-Rijo
09-06-2010, 04:16 PM
I really don't see a reason to start a thread like this. The HR thread was started when he was still a member of the Reds.

It seems like it has a basis rooted in mockery, IMO.

While I agree with you the other Adam Dunn thread feels a little like mockery to me as well. Not that I really care about it I just tend to ignore the thread myself but for the life of me I can't understand why a Reds site has an ongoing thread about a Washington National formerly an Arizona Diamondback.

Ron Madden
09-06-2010, 04:20 PM
While I agree with you the other Adam Dunn thread feels a little like mockery to me as well. Not that I really care about it I just tend to ignore the thread myself but for the life of me I can't understand why a Reds site has an ongoing thread about a Washington National formerly an Arizona Diamondback.

That thread was started when Dunn was a member of the Reds and contains some great information.

jojo
09-06-2010, 04:28 PM
Horrible thread.

You want to post about his strikeout numbers, do it in the HR thread.

Don't need two threads tracking Adam Dunn accomplishments, especially when the second one was created with trolling in mind.

Talking about strikeouts in the Dunn HR thread has been forbidden by Boss.

Chip R
09-06-2010, 04:31 PM
I really don't see a reason to start a thread like this. The HR thread was started when he was still a member of the Reds.


And it has continued since he's been traded. You can't have it both ways. So, I would strongly suggest everyone talk about his strikeouts or post in the HR thread.

CTA513
09-06-2010, 04:32 PM
Someone should start a walk list for him.

Brutus
09-06-2010, 04:36 PM
And it has continued since he's been traded. You can't have it both ways. So, I would strongly suggest everyone talk about his strikeouts or post in the HR thread.

Thanks, Chip. If it's kosher to talk about his homers, I think talking about his strikeouts should be fair game.

I personally dont' care to talk about either, as he's not on the Reds and where he stands on either list is not important to me. But I think it should all be in bounds.

TeamBoone
09-06-2010, 05:09 PM
Assuming Adam reaches 500, he's probably going to need more on his resume than HRs...

Do you honestly think that's all he's done??

jojo
09-06-2010, 05:14 PM
Do you honestly think that's all he's done??

Dunn is pretty much a true three outcome player with no glove, a reputation for lacking the intangibles and thus far he's toiled for bad teams. Aside from HRs, what is on his resume that turns the heads of sportswriters?

westofyou
09-06-2010, 07:17 PM
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/70c6eef3-6de3-4495-aa6c-da941ece1281.JPG


Someone should start a walk list for him.


978, this year Edmonds, Visquel and Berkman all climbed into the 1000 walk club, chances are Dunn will be the youngest member when he gets his 1000.

There are 112 guys who have over 1000 BB.

Over 40 of them are in the HOF

kaldaniels
09-06-2010, 08:23 PM
The HR thread really isn't just a HR thread anymore. That said, if a HR thread is allowed, a K (which given his pace is as much a historical feat as his HR pace) thread should be allowed.

And that said, too many people (on both sides) here are clinging to the past with Dunn. He's a polarizing figure and it just seems too many people with an agenda are quick to chime in on any good or bad thing he does. And that's as much as I'll say without getting myself into too much more hot water.

redsfandan
09-06-2010, 08:42 PM
Dunn is pretty much a true three outcome player with no glove, a reputation for lacking the intangibles and thus far he's toiled for bad teams. Aside from HRs, what is on his resume that turns the heads of sportswriters?
Well, there's always the distance of his homers. Does that count?

Brutus
09-06-2010, 08:58 PM
http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/display/70c6eef3-6de3-4495-aa6c-da941ece1281.JPG




978, this year Edmonds, Visquel and Berkman all climbed into the 1000 walk club, chances are Dunn will be the youngest member when he gets his 1000.

There are 112 guys who have over 1000 BB.

Over 40 of them are in the HOF

Does that mean over 70 of them aren't?

;)

sivman17
09-06-2010, 09:05 PM
Currently #57 at 1,433, 4 ahead of Mo Vaughn. Youngest in the Top 100.

I believe Dunn is actually #31, with 1601 Ks.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/strikeouts

mth123
09-06-2010, 09:10 PM
FWIW, I don't think 500 HR puts Dunn in the Hall. But this thread is worth keeping up to date. Dunn is going to finish his career with more HR than anyone that the system has produced except for Frank Robinson (and he has a shot at catching him too). More than Bench. More than Perez. More than Davis. More than May. More than Larkin. More than Klu. Since Robinson was dealt away when I was a kid and I didn't really get the significance, its fun to follow Dunn up the list. I'm in my 50s and have seen a lot of Reds baseball. Probably more than most on here and Dunn is one of the top 5 or 10 offensive players this team has had since I've been watching.

I'm going to keep paying attention and updating though not in the detail that Atomic Dumpling did. Anybody doesn't like it can skip the thread. No real need for anybody to get all upset over it.

mth123
09-06-2010, 09:30 PM
I believe Dunn is actually #31, with 1601 Ks.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/history/leaders/_/sort/strikeouts

A lot of good players and HOF on the list ahead of him, but Dunn's K's are fairly historic. He could pass Reggie Jackson (current leader) in about 4 years. There probably isn't anyone else active with a shot at Jackson. Maybe Thome if he plays 3 more years but that's doubtful IMO. There are some up and comers in Arizona though.

Did you know:

Pete Rose made more outs than any player who ever played (1192 more than second place Hank Aaron)
Cy Young lost the most games and allowed the most earned runs.
Cal Ripken grounded into the most DP.

Ron Madden
09-06-2010, 09:36 PM
FWIW, I don't think 500 HR puts Dunn in the Hall. But this thread is worth keeping up to date. Dunn is going to finish his career with more HR than anyone that the system has produced except for Frank Robinson (and he has a shot at catching him too). More than Bench. More than Perez. More than Davis. More than May. More than Larkin. More than Klu. Since Robinson was dealt away when I was a kid and I didn't really get the significance, its fun to follow Dunn up the list. I'm in my 50s and have seen a lot of Reds baseball. Probably more than most on here and Dunn is one of the top 5 or 10 offensive players this team has had since I've been watching.

I'm going to keep paying attention and updating though not in the detail that Atomic Dumpling did. Anybody doesn't like it can skip the thread. No real need for anybody to get all upset over it.

Very well said mth123, I'm in my 50s too and feel pretty much the same as you do about this thread. :thumbup:

Boss-Hog
09-06-2010, 09:36 PM
We allowed the HR thread to remain open even after he was traded because enough people wanted it to continue on the condition that it would be used for the purpose it was intended for. By the same token, we'll allow the stikeout thread only if it's used for its intended purpose. But if either thread continues to contain unrelated discussion and fighting, both threads will be closed for good.

Boss-Hog
09-06-2010, 09:37 PM
We allowed the HR thread to remain open even after he was traded because enough people wanted it to continue on the condition that it would be used for the purpose it was intended for. By the same token, we'll allow the stikeout thread only if it's used for its intended purpose. But if either thread continues to contain unrelated discussion and fighting, both threads will be closed for good.

edabbs44
09-06-2010, 09:37 PM
A lot of good players and HOF on the list ahead of him, but Dunn's K's are fairly historic. He could pass Reggie Jackson (current leader) in about 4 years. There probably isn't anyone else active with a shot at Jackson. Maybe Thome if he plays 3 more years but that's doubtful IMO. There are some up and comers in Arizona though.

Did you know:

Pete Rose made more outs than any player who ever played (1192 more than second place Hank Aaron)
Cy Young lost the most games and allowed the most earned runs.
Cal Ripken grounded into the most DP.

Interesting...when you play a long time, those types of stats build up.

Slyder
09-06-2010, 09:53 PM
Interesting...when you play a long time, those types of stats build up.

Its just like Bret Favre is what top all-time INTs. Usually the bad ones that throw a bunch a season dont play long enough to reach those types of pinnacles.

sivman17
09-06-2010, 10:15 PM
A lot of good players and HOF on the list ahead of him, but Dunn's K's are fairly historic. He could pass Reggie Jackson (current leader) in about 4 years. There probably isn't anyone else active with a shot at Jackson. Maybe Thome if he plays 3 more years but that's doubtful IMO. There are some up and comers in Arizona though.

You're not kidding about him striking out at a historic pace.

Dunn strikes out once every 3.06 ABs.

Jackson: 1 every 3.80 ABs
Thome: 1 every 3.33 ABs
Sosa: 1 every 3.82 ABs

In comparison, Mark Reynolds strikes out once every 2.61 ABs. If Reynolds plays for a long time, he will smash whatever record Dunn sets in front of him.

RedsManRick
09-06-2010, 10:15 PM
merge 'em

edabbs44
09-06-2010, 10:24 PM
You're not kidding about him striking out at a historic pace.

Dunn strikes out once every 3.06 ABs.

Jackson: 1 every 3.80 ABs
Thome: 1 every 3.33 ABs
Sosa: 1 every 3.82 ABs

In comparison, Mark Reynolds strikes out once every 2.61 ABs. If Reynolds plays for a long time, he will smash whatever record Dunn sets in front of him.

Not sure about Reynolds vs Dunn. Reynolds is 4 years younger and is over 800 Ks behind him. He might catch him, but he could also fall short due to years played. But he won't smash him unless he plays a few years more than Dunn ends up playing.

westofyou
09-06-2010, 11:03 PM
Does that mean over 70 of them aren't?

;)

At this exact moment...... yes.

westofyou
09-06-2010, 11:12 PM
Interesting...when you play a long time, those types of stats build up.

It's why they are called 'counting stats"

Prior to this year there were 228 guys with at least 1000 k's and 109 guys with a 1000 walks.

And as far as K's and age goes Dunn is tied with Andruw Jones as the youngest guy to reach that number (28) the next year (29) gets some other dogs in the race.



AT BATS AB SO G
1 Alex Rodriguez 5590 1126 1430
2 Andruw Jones 5271 1129 1451
3 Mickey Mantle 5005 1024 1399
4 Bobby Bonds 4047 1016 1014
5 Sammy Sosa 4021 1027 1088
6 Jose Canseco 3886 1060 1032
7 Adam Dunn 3871 1256 1131

As far as BB goes IF Dunn reaches 1000 by the end of this season he'll be in this group.



CAREER
AGE < 31
GAMES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WALKS >= 1000

WALKS BB G PA BB
1 Mickey Mantle 1251 1675 7201 1251
2 Eddie Yost 1193 1556 6958 1193
3 Mel Ott 1135 1864 7802 1135
4 Jimmie Foxx 1104 1710 7290 1104
5 Ted Williams 1101 1184 5346 1101
6 Eddie Mathews 1031 1634 7125 1031




I don't see much suck on any of these lists.

edabbs44
09-06-2010, 11:58 PM
It's why they are called 'counting stats"

Prior to this year there were 228 guys with at least 1000 k's and 109 guys with a 1000 walks.

And as far as K's and age goes Dunn is tied with Andruw Jones as the youngest guy to reach that number (28) the next year (29) gets some other dogs in the race.



AT BATS AB SO G
1 Alex Rodriguez 5590 1126 1430
2 Andruw Jones 5271 1129 1451
3 Mickey Mantle 5005 1024 1399
4 Bobby Bonds 4047 1016 1014
5 Sammy Sosa 4021 1027 1088
6 Jose Canseco 3886 1060 1032
7 Adam Dunn 3871 1256 1131

As far as BB goes IF Dunn reaches 1000 by the end of this season he'll be in this group.



CAREER
AGE < 31
GAMES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WALKS >= 1000

WALKS BB G PA BB
1 Mickey Mantle 1251 1675 7201 1251
2 Eddie Yost 1193 1556 6958 1193
3 Mel Ott 1135 1864 7802 1135
4 Jimmie Foxx 1104 1710 7290 1104
5 Ted Williams 1101 1184 5346 1101
6 Eddie Mathews 1031 1634 7125 1031




I don't see much suck on any of these lists.

Can you run the K numbers by ABs and not age? Curious to see if the level of "suck", as you put it, changes at all.

westofyou
09-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Can you run the K numbers by ABs and not age? Curious to see if the level of "suck", as you put it, changes at all.

Here's a quick and dirty under 30 list.



CAREER
AGE <= 30
STRIKEOUTS >= 1000
WALKS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

STRIKEOUTS SO SO BB AB PA RC/G
1 Adam Dunn 1433 1433 913 4417 5417 2.11
2 Alex Rodriguez 1404 1404 820 6767 7774 3.03
3 Andruw Jones 1394 1394 717 6408 7276 0.56
4 Sammy Sosa 1369 1369 428 5289 5808 0.57
5 Jose Canseco 1267 1267 560 4711 5384 1.51
6 Bobby Bonds 1243 1243 630 4954 5663 1.89
7 Jim Thome 1238 1238 875 4160 5110 3.36
8 Reggie Jackson 1237 1237 654 4848 5614 2.25
9 Mickey Mantle 1214 1214 1251 5896 7201 5.44
10 Dick Allen 1208 1208 685 4735 5481 3.43
11 Greg Luzinski 1178 1178 630 5008 5758 1.88
12 Troy Glaus 1165 1165 701 4425 5203 1.08
13 Juan Samuel 1159 1159 332 4922 5367 0.06
14 Pat Burrell 1137 1137 683 3999 4743 1.08
15 Pete Incaviglia 1132 1132 317 3747 4139 0.09
16 Jesse Barfield 1127 1127 506 4380 4968 0.98
17 Darryl Strawberry 1119 1119 674 4564 5314 2.09
18 Travis Fryman 1113 1113 459 5176 5750 0.18
19 Ken Griffey Jr. 1101 1101 841 6352 7319 2.97
20 Rick Monday 1098 1098 682 4610 5373 1.44
21 Dave Kingman 1095 1095 312 3584 3974 0.56
T22 Dean Palmer 1094 1094 399 4064 4552 0.31
T22 Dale Murphy 1094 1094 617 5017 5689 1.74
24 Lloyd Moseby 1092 1092 595 5555 6286 0.37
25 Adrian Beltre 1084 1084 478 6285 6877 -.10
26 Rob Deer 1079 1079 452 2972 3468 0.42
27 Mike Schmidt 1077 1077 778 4261 5158 2.64
28 Danny Tartabull 1037 1037 591 3853 4492 2.33
29 Derrek Lee 1036 1036 550 4258 4897 1.22
30 Juan Gonzalez 1031 1031 376 5292 5779 1.67
31 Johnny Bench 1024 1024 705 5947 6755 1.28
32 Alex Gonzalez 1017 1017 350 4307 4803 -1.36
33 Manny Ramirez 1012 1012 695 4435 5233 3.87
34 Ron Santo 1004 1004 860 6213 7186 1.72

sivman17
09-07-2010, 01:43 AM
Hey westofyou, just curious what site do you use to break down stats like that?

redsfandan
09-07-2010, 06:02 AM
merge 'em
+1

How many threads are needed when the discussion is really about the same thing?

People can say that the two threads are talking about two different stats but the only real difference, imo, is why the threads were started.

camisadelgolf
09-07-2010, 07:34 AM
+2

westofyou
09-07-2010, 10:14 AM
Hey westofyou, just curious what site do you use to break down stats like that?

http://www.baseball-encyclopedia.com/

RedsManRick
09-07-2010, 12:48 PM
You can get to a lot of that data through Baseball Reference's play index as well.

WMR
09-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Nice job mods. Really appreciate not having to see that horrible thread title whenever I read tORG. :thumbup:

Brutus
09-07-2010, 03:11 PM
Nice job mods. Really appreciate not having to see that horrible thread title whenever I read tORG. :thumbup:

There are apparently a large enough contingent that would say the same about this particular thread title.

But I think it makes sense to have all Adam Dunn related discussion in one thread... be it homers, strikeouts, defense, what have you.

fearofpopvol1
09-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Interesting article today on Fangraphs about Dunn and his hall of fame chances. I think it's pretty spot-on...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/adam-dunn-hall-of-fame/

TeamBoone
09-17-2010, 09:25 PM
There are apparently a large enough contingent that would say the same about this particular thread title.

But I think it makes sense to have all Adam Dunn related discussion in one thread... be it homers, strikeouts, defense, what have you.

Why would you say that?

After all, he's probably going to have a great number of HR's and got a lot of those as a Red. Why shouldn't we proud of him?

Brutus
09-17-2010, 09:33 PM
Why would you say that?

After all, he's probably going to have a great number of HR's and got a lot of those as a Red. Why shouldn't we proud of him?

Not everyone cares about what former players are doing, let alone a thread specifically devoted to tracking one's career.

I'm neither here nor there on it myself. I don't quite understand the need for it, but I have nothing against it either. But there are others that are annoyed by it and I can understand why.

Thing is, a lot of former Reds were mocked and made fun of after their careers in Cincinnati were over. The jubilation at Austin Kearns' failures in Washington were notable. I'm not saying everyone was like that, nor are there no examples to the contrary, but I don't always see the same logic applied to others that some apply to Dunn.

I don't think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I don't understand why people can't let it go that he's gone. But I also think he's a good guy, a good player and wish him well. That's different than keeping an ongoing home run tracker for a player that has been gone two years, though.

redsfandan
09-17-2010, 09:44 PM
Interesting article today on Fangraphs about Dunn and his hall of fame chances. I think it's pretty spot-on...

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/adam-dunn-hall-of-fame/
You mean like this line:

He won’t deserve to go in based on total value, but the sexy numbers just may be enough.
IF Dunn makes it in it will be due to his homers and that's pretty much it. Although I bet there'll be some Dunn supporters that will say that the Reds decision to keep him in left is why he might not make it.

Ron Madden
09-18-2010, 03:48 AM
Not everyone cares about what former players are doing, let alone a thread specifically devoted to tracking one's career.

I'm neither here nor there on it myself. I don't quite understand the need for it, but I have nothing against it either. But there are others that are annoyed by it and I can understand why.

Thing is, a lot of former Reds were mocked and made fun of after their careers in Cincinnati were over. The jubilation at Austin Kearns' failures in Washington were notable. I'm not saying everyone was like that, nor are there no examples to the contrary, but I don't always see the same logic applied to others that some apply to Dunn.

I don't think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I don't understand why people can't let it go that he's gone. But I also think he's a good guy, a good player and wish him well. That's different than keeping an ongoing home run tracker for a player that has been gone two years, though.


There is a lot of truth in the saying most fans root for laundry.

Some of us become attached to these guys, it's hard not to keep rooting for some of your favorite players just because they have been traded or have been declared as free agents. That doesn't mean we stop rooting for the Reds.

If this thread offends anyone in any way they don't have to read it, nobody is forcing them to click on it. I really can't understand the objection.

mth123
09-18-2010, 04:34 AM
There is a lot of truth in the saying most fans root for laundry.

Some of us become attached to these guys, it's hard not to keep rooting for some of your favorite players just because they have been traded or have been declared as free agents. That doesn't mean we stop rooting for the Reds.

If this thread offends anyone in any way they don't have to read it, nobody is forcing them to click on it. I really can't understand the objection.

:thumbup:

Brutus
09-18-2010, 05:14 AM
There is a lot of truth in the saying most fans root for laundry.

Some of us become attached to these guys, it's hard not to keep rooting for some of your favorite players just because they have been traded or have been declared as free agents. That doesn't mean we stop rooting for the Reds.

If this thread offends anyone in any way they don't have to read it, nobody is forcing them to click on it. I really can't understand the objection.

There was a lot of people complaining about the strikeout thread. Why did that bother anyone? After all, they didn't have to read it.

Truth is, you can say that about anything on this board. I happen to agree with you... self-censorship should be just fine. But we all know it doesn't seem to work that way.

mth123
09-18-2010, 06:11 AM
On page 1, there is a thread about a potential no hitter in Seattle which has nothing to do with the Reds. There is a thread about Joe Torre. No real Reds connection. There is a thread about Derek Jeter and his mystery HBP - again no Reds connection. There is a thread about Vin Scully with again, no Reds connection.

Yet, somehow, a thread tracking the HR journey of the player produced by the Reds system who has a real possibility of becoming only the second guy originating from the long history of the franchise to reach 400 let alone 500 HR is off limits because he is no longer a Red? I don't get it.

I do understand that some may have no interest, but some do so why ruin it with the constant whining? There are threads that don't particularly interest me either. I could care less about uniform styles (but there is a thread about them on page 1) and I don't really care much about Torre retiring nor do I see the big deal about Jeter's HBP gamesmanship, but I don't ruin those threads by whining about them. I simply move on. I'd suggest that people who aren't interested in any topic simply move on and resist the urge for posting things about them being uninteresting. While I'm ranting, I'm also annoyed at posts like "I can't believe we have ... number of pages about ..."

My suggestion to everyone is to participate in threads that interest you and leave discussions that you don't care about alone and let others discuss as they please. As long as its not offensive, illegal or in violation of board taboos, why chime in with this whiney drivel?

Topcat
09-18-2010, 06:51 AM
Love Adeam Dunn but by a country mile would take Jose Bautista.

mth123
09-18-2010, 07:03 AM
Love Adeam Dunn but by a country mile would take Jose Bautista.

Bautista was touted as an up and coming power bat as a minor leaguer but it took several years of meh before it showed up. I think he'll continue to have success (but not .994 OPS type success) for a few years, but it's interesting that it took so long. Consider that Adam Dunn is only 11 months older than Bautista but has bascially had a .900 plus OPS as a major leaguer for nearly a decade. Bautista with 106 career HR will turn 30 on October 19th.

Ron Madden
09-18-2010, 07:07 AM
On page 1, there is a thread about a potential no hitter in Seattle which has nothing to do with the Reds. There is a thread about Joe Torre. No real Reds connection. There is a thread about Derek Jeter and his mystery HBP - again no Reds connection. There is a thread about Vin Scully with again, no Reds connection.

Yet, somehow, a thread tracking the HR journey of the player produced by the Reds system who has a real possibility of becoming only the second guy originating from the long history of the franchise to reach 400 let alone 500 HR is off limits because he is no longer a Red? I don't get it.

I do understand that some may have no interest, but some do so why ruin it with the constant whining? There are threads that don't particularly interest me either. I could care less about uniform styles (but there is a thread about them on page 1) and I don't really care much about Torre retiring nor do I see the big deal about Jeter's HBP gamesmanship, but I don't ruin those threads by whining about them. I simply move on. I'd suggest that people who aren't interested in any topic simply move on and resist the urge for posting things about them being uninteresting. While I'm ranting, I'm also annoyed at posts like "I can't believe we have ... number of pages about ..."

My suggestion to everyone is to participate in threads that interest you and leave discussions that you don't care about alone and let others discuss as they please. As long as its not offensive, illegal or in violation of board taboos, why chime in with this whiney drivel?


THANK YOU. :clap:

jojo
09-18-2010, 08:58 AM
Speaking of how Dunn rates historically as a rally killer, his 74 GDP places him in a tie for 935th on the all time "doubleplays grounded into" list with former Reds Aaron Boone, Jason LaRue and Eddie Miksis. He probably has no shot at overtaking Cal Ripken for #1 all time (350) nor is it realistic to expect him to overtake Frank Robinson (270), Tony Perez (268), Dave Concepcion (266) and Ernie Lombardi (261) who rank the highest of all former Reds in a logjam at 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th all time.

As anyone who has enjoyed the statues in front of GABP knows, Ernie Lombardi played for the Reds from 1932 through the 1941 seasons. He was known for being exceedingly slow afoot and even more famously for his unusually large nose which earned him the nickname, "Schnoz". He led the league in GDP four times in his career. Despite his lack of speed, he was an exceptional offensive player for the era representing the Reds in the all-star game 5 times and winning the National League MVP award while wearing a Reds uni during the 1938 season where he posted a slash line of .342/.391/.524 good for an OPS=.915 and a WAR=5.3. That year he also posted a career high and league leading 30 GDP. Playing in the Coast League in 1948, Ernie Lombardi has the distinction of hitting the longest homerun in the history of Emeryville park.

He has to be considered one of the greatest catchers to ever wear a Reds uniform. Fittingly he was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Veteran's Committee in 1986 so he also can be considered one of the greatest catchers to ever wear any uniform.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Lombardi_GABP.jpghttp://oaklandoaks.tripod.com/lombard2.jpg

RedsBaron
09-18-2010, 09:12 AM
Lombardi was a great catcher. It is also generally believed that his statue runs about as well as Lombardi himself did during his prime.

mth123
09-18-2010, 09:23 AM
Speaking of how Dunn rates historically as a rally killer, his 74 GDP places him in a tie for 935th on the all time "doubleplays grounded into" list with former Reds Aaron Boone, Jason LaRue and Eddie Miksis. He probably has no shot at overtaking Cal Ripken for #1 all time (350) nor is it realistic to expect him to overtake Frank Robinson (270), Tony Perez (268), Dave Concepcion (266) and Ernie Lombardi (261) who rank the highest of all former Reds in a logjam at 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th all time.

As anyone who has enjoyed the statues in front of GABP knows, Ernie Lombardi played for the Reds from 1932 through the 1941 seasons. He was known for being exceedingly slow afoot and even more famously for his unusually large nose which earned him the nickname, "Schnoz". He led the league in GDP four times in his career. Despite his lack of speed, he was an exceptional offensive player for the era representing the Reds in the all-star game 5 times and winning the National League MVP award while wearing a Reds uni during the 1938 season where he posted a slash line of .342/.391/.524 good for an OPS=.915 and a WAR=5.3. That year he also posted a career high and league leading 30 GDP. Playing in the Coast League in 1948, Ernie Lombardi has the distinction of hitting the longest homerun in the history of Emeryville park.

He has to be considered one of the greatest catchers to ever wear a Reds uniform. Fittingly he was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the Veteran's Committee in 1986 so he also can be considered one of the greatest catchers to ever wear any uniform.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Lombardi_GABP.jpghttp://oaklandoaks.tripod.com/lombard2.jpg

Nice Post. The Schnozz was a great one. In his MVP season in 1938 he lead the league with 30 GDP.

On a side note, there is an urban legend about Johnny Bench taking his glove off and challenging some young hard throwing pitcher to pitch to him while he caught bare handed. Its funny because before anyone had ever heard of Johnny Bench my father told me that story about Lombardi making that challenge to Johnny Vander Meer.

With Bench and Lombardi having their best years as Red's players (all their years in Bench's case) only the Yankees with Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra can claim having such a great history behind the plate.

As for Dunn and the DP, he probably K's too much to get too high on that list.

jojo
09-18-2010, 09:32 AM
On a side note, there is an urban legend about Johnny Bench taking his glove off and challenging some young hard throwing pitcher to pitch to him while he caught bare handed. Its funny because before anyone had ever heard of Johnny Bench my father told me that story about Lombardi making that challenge to Johnny Vander Meer.

Just for the record, there is no way I'd offer to catch Vander Meer bare handed.

Here's something cool from google:

http://books.google.com/books?id=W08EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=Johnny+Vander+Meer+fastball&source=bl&ots=uUIiNnWxNR&sig=uk8DySSvC58540lPDEp3kAUohyc&hl=en&ei=6rCUTOfiNYG0lQftusCoCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCUQ6AEwBTgU#v=onepage&q&f=false

mth123
09-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Since K's and Ernie Lombardi have entered the discussion. Lombardi only had 262 K's in 17 seasons. He only had three seasons when he K'd more than 20 times and his high was 25 in 1944 (his worst season) when he had 408 PA.s

Scrap Irony
09-18-2010, 01:04 PM
Lombardi also had some great years for Brooklyn, giving them three HoF catchers (Campanella, Piazza, and Lombardi). If I were ranking all-time catching among organizations, Brooklyn/LA might be where I start.

mth123
09-18-2010, 01:15 PM
Lombardi only played his rookie year with Brooklyn. He had a .752 OPS (OPS+ of 102) in 196 PA. The bulk of his non Reds career was with the NY Giants.

Scrap Irony
09-18-2010, 02:48 PM
My entire baseball life, I thought Lombardi played half his career in Brooklyn, the other half in Cincy. My bad.

Brutus
09-18-2010, 02:49 PM
On page 1, there is a thread about a potential no hitter in Seattle which has nothing to do with the Reds. There is a thread about Joe Torre. No real Reds connection. There is a thread about Derek Jeter and his mystery HBP - again no Reds connection. There is a thread about Vin Scully with again, no Reds connection.

Yet, somehow, a thread tracking the HR journey of the player produced by the Reds system who has a real possibility of becoming only the second guy originating from the long history of the franchise to reach 400 let alone 500 HR is off limits because he is no longer a Red? I don't get it.

I do understand that some may have no interest, but some do so why ruin it with the constant whining? There are threads that don't particularly interest me either. I could care less about uniform styles (but there is a thread about them on page 1) and I don't really care much about Torre retiring nor do I see the big deal about Jeter's HBP gamesmanship, but I don't ruin those threads by whining about them. I simply move on. I'd suggest that people who aren't interested in any topic simply move on and resist the urge for posting things about them being uninteresting. While I'm ranting, I'm also annoyed at posts like "I can't believe we have ... number of pages about ..."

My suggestion to everyone is to participate in threads that interest you and leave discussions that you don't care about alone and let others discuss as they please. As long as its not offensive, illegal or in violation of board taboos, why chime in with this whiney drivel?

Were you one of the ruined the strikeout thread with "constant whining?" Or did you make a post just like this that said if you don't like it, stay out of it and don't ruin it? This isn't a trick question, I'm just making sure you've been consistent, because I can completely see your point... but want to make sure you supported the other thread in reverse as a consistent principal that people should stay out of stuff if they don't like it. After all, I saw quite a few people immediately jump in and criticize the strikeouts thread.

One thing you're missing about the Derek Jeter thread, Vin Scully thread, etc... those threads haven't been discussed over and over for two years. I'm not saying that justifies not being able to talk about it (I can't emphasize that enough). But it's one thing to talk about Derek Jeter for 2 days until the topic cycles off the front page and continually bumping a thread dedicated to a player's career for two years constantly after his leaving. And again, so I can emphasize this: I personally don't think it shouldn't be able to be talked about. But I definitely see how it would annoy people just as it annoyed people when the strikeout thread was up.

Guess what? A lot of stuff annoys a lot of people here. It's my experience that people come to the defense of stuff they like and complain about stuff they don't. It's nothing against you personal, because we're all guilty of it, but I would be willing to bet sometime at some point you've complained about some topic being discussed or something being said. Yes? We've all done it.

TeamBoone
09-18-2010, 10:36 PM
THANK YOU. :clap:

Oh my gosh! That's exactly what I was going to say.

Excellent post 123.

Chip R
09-18-2010, 10:39 PM
Let's not derail this thread any further by arguing about it's existance. If you have a beef, either take it private or report it to the mods.

westofyou
09-18-2010, 10:44 PM
Let's not derail this thread any further by arguing about it's existance. If you have a beef, either take it private or report it to the mods.

Are you wearing a shirt Chip?

RFS62
09-18-2010, 10:51 PM
Are you wearing a shirt Chip?

God, I hope so.

fearofpopvol1
09-18-2010, 11:56 PM
Were you one of the ruined the strikeout thread with "constant whining?" Or did you make a post just like this that said if you don't like it, stay out of it and don't ruin it? This isn't a trick question, I'm just making sure you've been consistent, because I can completely see your point... but want to make sure you supported the other thread in reverse as a consistent principal that people should stay out of stuff if they don't like it. After all, I saw quite a few people immediately jump in and criticize the strikeouts thread.

One thing you're missing about the Derek Jeter thread, Vin Scully thread, etc... those threads haven't been discussed over and over for two years. I'm not saying that justifies not being able to talk about it (I can't emphasize that enough). But it's one thing to talk about Derek Jeter for 2 days until the topic cycles off the front page and continually bumping a thread dedicated to a player's career for two years constantly after his leaving. And again, so I can emphasize this: I personally don't think it shouldn't be able to be talked about. But I definitely see how it would annoy people just as it annoyed people when the strikeout thread was up.

Guess what? A lot of stuff annoys a lot of people here. It's my experience that people come to the defense of stuff they like and complain about stuff they don't. It's nothing against you personal, because we're all guilty of it, but I would be willing to bet sometime at some point you've complained about some topic being discussed or something being said. Yes? We've all done it.

Isn't the easy solution if you dislike a topic or thread to ignore it? It's not hurting anyone or anything and this thread has been a good discussion for the most part.

Brutus
09-19-2010, 12:29 AM
Isn't the easy solution if you dislike a topic or thread to ignore it? It's not hurting anyone or anything and this thread has been a good discussion for the most part.

Absolutely, but it didn't stop people from getting upset about the strikeout thread. That wasn't "ignored."

Just sayin'

Chip R
09-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Yeah, you guys don't listen.