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schmidty622
05-15-2008, 07:33 PM
Per MLBTRADERUMORS.COM

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Rosenthal's Latest: Rockies Could Trade Holliday
In Ken Rosenthal's latest column, he sees Matt Holliday as a prime candidate to be traded this summer. Rosenthal notes that the Rockies are already 10 games back and have very little chance of signing Holliday to an extension. Holliday is signed through '09 with $13MM due next season.

Previously, Rosenthal speculated that the Rockies might be willing to go to 6 years/$96MM to keep last year's NL MVP runner-up. However, all we know of Holliday's demands are that he wants more than a four-year deal.

Rosenthal thinks that the Rockies could also seek to move Brian Fuentes and Garrett Atkins. Fuentes is eligible for free agency after this season and Atkins will be in his second year of arbitration eligibility and is not eligible for free agency until after next season.

Rosenthal also suggests that the Rockies may be willing to accept low-level, high-ceiling prospects in return as they are deep in prospects at AA and AAA.

Cork Gaines writes for Rays Index and can be reached here.
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I wouldn't hesitate in a second if we could pry Holliday from the Rockies for some of our more promising young prospects. Also, with Griffey and Dunn's contracts leaving us, along with the 11 other FAs, we could have an excellent chance to sign him to a long term deal after the 2009 season. At the very least I would look into Atkins though, especially if the asking price is low A ball prospects.

Think of an outfield with Bruce and Holliday. That would be amazing.

Degenerate39
05-15-2008, 07:47 PM
Ask them what the price is. Anyone not named Votto, Bruce, Cueto, or Volquez is fair game as far as prospects go.

IamWallaman
05-15-2008, 08:16 PM
That's the kind of splash I'd hope Jocketty is willing to make.

If Dunn and Griff are gone next year, Holliday and Bruce could more than match-up offensively. Plus, it's the kind of lefty, righty combo ol' Dusty would love!

redhawk61
05-15-2008, 08:35 PM
in a second. Especially since Holliday is due only 13mil next year compared to Dunn who will likely get 16mil maybe more.

Degenerate39
05-15-2008, 08:37 PM
What kind of deal do you think the Rockies would want to Holliday? Stubbs, Maloney, Bailey, PTBNL?

Jack Burton
05-15-2008, 08:41 PM
This just in from Steve Phillips, Fogg for Holliday straight up. Colorado loves the DragonSlayer.

jmac
05-15-2008, 08:49 PM
Ask them what the price is. Anyone not named Votto, Bruce, Cueto, or Volquez is fair game as far as prospects go.

I'm with ya.
The thoughts of Bruce/Holiday in the OF .....well, I could even handle alittle CPatt patrolling CF with those two.(batting 8th or 9th of course)
As the one poster says , though it may not be Holiday, I too look for Jocketty to make a splash along these lines.

FlightRick
05-15-2008, 08:55 PM
I'm leery of rumors/speculation like this... I mean: if *we* are so excited to take Holliday and pay him his contracted rate for one and a half seasons, they why would the Rockies be in any hurry to move him for cheap?

That said: if the cost to the Reds is reasonable, I'd jump, and I wouldn't even worry about signing Holliday past 2009. [Keep in mind, his agent is ******bag McGee, and he'll be age 30 in 2010; I'd be willing to go up to $18m/yr for four years as an extension, but I bet there'd be takers at $20m and six years.]

Even just as a one year bridge, though, Holliday would be a great value to the Reds. He gets us past the simulataneous losses of Dunn/Griffey *and* prevents us from having to dabble in the woefully thin post-2008 Free Agent Class of OF'ers (though we'll still need a true CF'er, I guess). All for the same price we're paying Dunn this year, and giving our front office an extra year to figure out finances (especially Arroyo and his contract) and scout 2009's free agents for a better long-term solution before deciding whether or not to seriously negotiate with Holliday/Boras.

So I guess what I'm saying is: this is one of those rumors that makes no sense to me, but if it's true, then hell yeah, you do the deal. The Rockies can have pretty much any non-Bruce minor leaguer they want, if you ask me. And quite a few of our major leaguers are more than available, too.


Rick

schmidty622
05-15-2008, 09:14 PM
Yeah, even if he was to just be a year and a half player he would have value in being able to help the Reds win in 2009 and if the Reds are not winning by the break then they could flip him to a team that could negotiate sign him for their prospects.

I'd be on the phone right now touting out #2 ranked farm system and some of the young pitchers we have down there.

schmidty622
05-15-2008, 09:24 PM
Oh, and this is just the kind of move that Walt has made in the past with the acquisitions of McGuire, Edmonds, and Larry Walker.

bubbachunk
05-15-2008, 10:09 PM
I think this only happens if Walt first can get some deals for Dunn and Griff but I am not going to hold my breath. It only makes sense to me if we can get equal prospects back from trading dunn and griff to get him otherwise i dont like it.

mlbfan30
05-15-2008, 10:23 PM
Holliday would cost either Bailey or Cueto, and also probably 3 top prospects like Frazier/Maloney/Ronicke/Stubbs/Valakia/etc. Most likely a 4 for 1. It would basically destroy the system for a few years.

Stephenk29
05-15-2008, 10:38 PM
Holliday would cost either Bailey or Cueto, and also probably 3 top prospects like Frazier/Maloney/Ronicke/Stubbs/Valakia/etc. Most likely a 4 for 1. It would basically destroy the system for a few years.

Yeah it would empty it, but aren't we talking about what one of the best players in the majors right now? I don't see how we couldn't do something like that.

bubbachunk
05-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah it would empty it, but aren't we talking about what one of the best players in the majors right now? I don't see how we couldn't do something like that.

Yea but are we really only 1 player away from contending for a championship? I think not! Why blow the farm when we have many needs.

Ghosts of 1990
05-15-2008, 11:23 PM
lets flip dunn and a prospect for holliday

Chris Sabowned
05-15-2008, 11:27 PM
lets flip dunn and a prospect for holliday

If the Rockies can't afford Holliday, why would they want a more expensive, but worse player?

jmac
05-15-2008, 11:59 PM
Yea but are we really only 1 player away from contending for a championship? I think not! Why blow the farm when we have many needs.
Imagine a meat of the lineup which would consist of Bruce/Holiday/Votto/EE with Phillips mixed in there somewhere. :jump:

Now obviously we are only speculating but if I could do a deal like that for say Bailey/ Stubbs and couple lesser then yeah, I would do that.
Just sayin with the system we have now,I dont think we would actually have to blow it up to acquire a player of that stature.

Rounding Third
05-16-2008, 12:06 AM
If the Rockies want high ceiling and low level prospects, the Reds are flooded with talent. Dayton and Sarasota is full of talents like Todd Frazier, Juan Francisco, Chris Valaika (In AA now I think) and so on.

This is the kind of trade Walt has made in the past.

TheBigLebowski
05-16-2008, 12:26 AM
Guys...please don't get your hopes up on this one.

jmac
05-16-2008, 12:30 AM
Guys...please don't get your hopes up on this one.

Only speculating.
It's like summer-time hot-stove. Whether a deal for Holiday or not, I do expect Jocketty to make a big splash at some point.

CRedsLarkin11
05-16-2008, 01:18 AM
This will more than likely never happen, but man, if there was one player I'd like to see in a Reds uni, it's Matt Holliday

LouisvilleCARDS
05-16-2008, 02:19 AM
Yeah asking for a trade for one of the best players in baseball, even if he was a one year rental, without guys like Volquez, Bruce, etc being involved is a pipe dream. These hypothetical trades always come up, and there's no way the Reds are going to get in any of them.

NarrowStairs
05-16-2008, 02:55 AM
Never in a million years would Matt Holliday come to Cincinnati.

smoke6
05-16-2008, 09:04 AM
If the Rockies want high ceiling and low level prospects, the Reds are flooded with talent. Dayton and Sarasota is full of talents like Todd Frazier, Juan Francisco, Chris Valaika (In AA now I think) and so on.

This is the kind of trade Walt has made in the past.

Except Frazier and Valika are both SS. I think the Rox have SS locked up for awhile w/ Tulo.

Rounding Third
05-16-2008, 09:28 AM
Except Frazier and Valika are both SS. I think the Rox have SS locked up for awhile w/ Tulo.

Frazier is most likely going to be 3B I believe and Valaika is supposed to be a 2nd basemen. I think they were both drafted at SS but they are better at the plate than in the field and maybe moved. Don't hold me to that.

Besides, that is just two of the players. Nearly half the players on the team are on one year deals and if Griffey and Dunn are gone, there is a whole lot more room to spend money.

Will it happen, I don't know - I doubt it, but don't say it doesn't even have a chance.

smoke6
05-16-2008, 09:40 AM
Frazier is most likely going to be 3B I believe and Valaika is supposed to be a 2nd basemen. I think they were both drafted at SS but they are better at the plate than in the field and maybe moved. Don't hold me to that.

Besides, that is just two of the players. Nearly half the players on the team are on one year deals and if Griffey and Dunn are gone, there is a whole lot more room to spend money.

Will it happen, I don't know - I doubt it, but don't say it doesn't even have a chance.

I've seen Frazier and Valika both in Dayton. Valika does seem to be more of a 2B.

dunner13
05-16-2008, 09:52 AM
If you can get 4 or 5 prospects by trading jr. and dunn then you could flip those prospects to colorado for holliday. I would imagine that alot of teams would be interested in holliday though so the price would not be cheap.

Newman4
05-16-2008, 11:18 AM
Not to rain on the Holliday parade (no pun intended), but Matt's road splits are quite dramatic from his home splits, although he's still very good either way. Just something to consider when discussing trading.

2007:

Home .376 .435 .722 1.157
Away .301 .374 .485 .859

2005-2007:

Home .370 .430 .676 1.106
Away .281 .343 .466 .809

NorrisHopper30
05-16-2008, 11:21 AM
I wouldn't do it, Holliday wants a deal more than 4 years..he was at his peak last year.

schmidty622
05-16-2008, 12:13 PM
In the ORG it was suggested that the Reds target players who have better than average road splits but may play in home ball parks that do not let them produce like they could elsewhere.

By BaseClogger

"Yes, but then why pay the high price for a guy who has inflated stats due to his homepark, but is only above-average on the road? In other words, why not target a guy who's overall numbers aren't as good, but who has better away splits than Holliday's away numbers. That guy would get the GABP bump too. For example, I don't know if he is availabe, but compare Matt Holliday to the extremely underrated LF Josh Willingham:

Holliday career
overall: .319/.382/.554
home: .364/.426/.664
away: .274/.337/.445

Willingham career
overall: .275/.364/.485
home: .254/.343/.439
away: .296/.383/.529

Josh Willingham would likely be just as productive of a hitter in GABP as Matt Holliday, if not more so..."

I would love it if the Reds went out and looked for players that were hurt by their home yards and as such were undervalued by the teams. We all know the power that GABP gives to players so it would be a good strategy for the Reds FO to consider.

CRedsLarkin11
05-16-2008, 12:40 PM
In the ORG it was suggested that the Reds target players who have better than average road splits but may play in home ball parks that do not let them produce like they could elsewhere.

By BaseClogger

"Yes, but then why pay the high price for a guy who has inflated stats due to his homepark, but is only above-average on the road? In other words, why not target a guy who's overall numbers aren't as good, but who has better away splits than Holliday's away numbers. That guy would get the GABP bump too. For example, I don't know if he is availabe, but compare Matt Holliday to the extremely underrated LF Josh Willingham:

Holliday career
overall: .319/.382/.554
home: .364/.426/.664
away: .274/.337/.445

Willingham career
overall: .275/.364/.485
home: .254/.343/.439
away: .296/.383/.529

Josh Willingham would likely be just as productive of a hitter in GABP as Matt Holliday, if not more so..."

I would love it if the Reds went out and looked for players that were hurt by their home yards and as such were undervalued by the teams. We all know the power that GABP gives to players so it would be a good strategy for the Reds FO to consider.

Yeah, that's interesting but the thing here is that GABP is just as much a hitter's park as Coors if not more. And I know it's just an example, as I like the Hammer, but he is also a big time injury risk.

757690
05-17-2008, 03:32 AM
Willilngham is a good target player, but I don't really see why the Marlins would give him up. They love him, they control him for a few more years and don't have anyone better coming up soon.
The reason why we are talking about Holiday is that his will be a free agent soon.

I still like Holiday because if you look at his home/road split, he has been improving on the road every year. That is what good players do, they improve. His career numbers are bit misleading because of this, kinda like Brandon Phillips career numbers.

757690
05-17-2008, 03:37 AM
Not to rain on the Holliday parade (no pun intended), but Matt's road splits are quite dramatic from his home splits, although he's still very good either way. Just something to consider when discussing trading.

2007:

Home .376 .435 .722 1.157
Away .301 .374 .485 .859

2005-2007:

Home .370 .430 .676 1.106
Away .281 .343 .466 .809

If Holiday put up just his road numbers from last year he would have a better OPS than anyone on the Reds this year besides Votto and Bako, and they would be just barely better than him.

Hondo
05-17-2008, 01:51 PM
I hope not everyone here thinks Matt Holiday is the answer... Anyone remeber Dante Bichette?

jmac
05-17-2008, 02:08 PM
I hope not everyone here thinks Matt Holiday is the answer... Anyone remeber Dante Bichette?
This team needs a RH bat and especially looking ahead to a team without possibly Dunn/Jr.

Hondo
05-17-2008, 02:31 PM
This team needs a RH bat and especially looking ahead to a team without possibly Dunn/Jr.

Yeah, I know but Matt Holiday... Great Guy but I think he would come down to earth out of Coors... Even though GAB is a Hitters Park, you cannot take away the Coors Field affect, even with the Humidor...

Anyhow... This team needs a Right Handed Power Hitter. I have been beating that Dead Horse for quite some time now...

757690
05-18-2008, 01:14 AM
I hope not everyone here thinks Matt Holiday is the answer... Anyone remeber Dante Bichette?

Two big differences.

1) Coors, while still a hitters park, is much less of one. Basically went from a park factor of 1.6 to 1.2. That is bigger than the difference between Safco and Coors.

2) GABP is actually second to Coors in terms of park factor, so his numbers should stay close to the same.

Not like it matters, I doubt the Rockies will actually trade him. They may be off to bad start, but he has one more year left on his contract, and they have the young talent to be good for years, even with this bad start.