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redsfan4445
05-15-2008, 08:58 PM
per mlb trade rumours

"Rockies Could Trade Holliday

In Ken Rosenthal's latest column, he sees Matt Holliday as a prime candidate to be traded this summer. Rosenthal notes that the Rockies are already ten games back and have very little chance of signing Holliday to an extension. Holliday is signed through '09 with $13MM due next season.

Previously, Rosenthal speculated that the Rockies might be willing to go to six years and $96MM to keep last year's NL MVP runner-up. However, all we know of Holliday's demands are that he wants more than a four-year deal. Rosenthal sees the Indians, Cardinals, Yankees, A's, Tigers, Blue Jays, Mariners, and Mets as potential suitors. This should provide an interesting new storyline for July.

Rosenthal thinks that the Rockies could also seek to move Brian Fuentes and Garrett Atkins. Fuentes is eligible for free agency after this season and Atkins will be in his second year of arbitration eligibility and is not eligible for free agency until after next season.

Rosenthal also suggests that the Rockies may be willing to accept low-level, high-ceiling prospects in return as they are deep in prospects at Double and Triple A."

Would they Take Dunn?? Would they take Stubbs?

*BaseClogger*
05-15-2008, 09:00 PM
why would they take Dunn?

jojo
05-15-2008, 09:10 PM
per mlb trade rumours

"Rockies Could Trade Holliday

In Ken Rosenthal's latest column, he sees Matt Holliday as a prime candidate to be traded this summer. Rosenthal notes that the Rockies are already ten games back and have very little chance of signing Holliday to an extension. Holliday is signed through '09 with $13MM due next season.

Previously, Rosenthal speculated that the Rockies might be willing to go to six years and $96MM to keep last year's NL MVP runner-up. However, all we know of Holliday's demands are that he wants more than a four-year deal. Rosenthal sees the Indians, Cardinals, Yankees, A's, Tigers, Blue Jays, Mariners, and Mets as potential suitors. This should provide an interesting new storyline for July.

Rosenthal thinks that the Rockies could also seek to move Brian Fuentes and Garrett Atkins. Fuentes is eligible for free agency after this season and Atkins will be in his second year of arbitration eligibility and is not eligible for free agency until after next season.

Rosenthal also suggests that the Rockies may be willing to accept low-level, high-ceiling prospects in return as they are deep in prospects at Double and Triple A."

Would they Take Dunn?? Would they take Stubbs?

Stubbs would fit the bill. Bailey too. Dunn not so much.

redsfan4445
05-15-2008, 09:11 PM
just curious as he is righthanded.. and the reds need righthanded power

jojo
05-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Atkins and Holliday both have been significantly different players at Coors versus on the road....

Will M
05-15-2008, 09:17 PM
Atkins and Holliday both have been significantly different players at Coors versus on the road....

Holliday still OPSs .800 plus on the road. If they Reds could trade Dunn & Jr for prospects. Then get Holliday for prospects that would be awesome.

savafan
05-15-2008, 09:20 PM
And GABP projects more as a hitters park than Coors

jojo
05-15-2008, 09:22 PM
Holliday still OPSs .800 plus on the road.

He plays a little defense too.

*BaseClogger*
05-15-2008, 09:30 PM
And GABP projects more as a hitters park than Coors

Yes, but then why pay the high price for a guy who has inflated stats due to his homepark, but is only above-average on the road? In other words, why not target a guy who's overall numbers aren't as good, but who has better away splits than Holliday's away numbers. That guy would get the GABP bump too. For example, I don't know if he is availabe, but compare Matt Holliday to the extremely underrated LF Josh Willingham:

Holliday career
overall: .319/.382/.554
home: .364/.426/.664
away: .274/.337/.445

Willingham career
overall: .275/.364/.485
home: .254/.343/.439
away: .296/.383/.529

Josh Willingham would likely be just as productive of a hitter in GABP as Matt Holliday, if not more so...

guttle11
05-15-2008, 09:32 PM
Fogg, Freel, Roenicke, and Stubbs for Holliday. Then sign him to a 6 year, $8 Million extension. And then flip him to Texas for Josh Hamilton.

savafan
05-15-2008, 09:33 PM
I'd trade Skyline, LaRosa's, and Montgomery Inn to Texas for Josh Hamilton

Highlifeman21
05-15-2008, 09:50 PM
Fogg, Freel, Roenicke, and Stubbs for Holliday. Then sign him to a 6 year, $8 Million extension. And then flip him to Texas for Josh Hamilton.

And exactly what value do those 4 have to the Rockies?

Start off with Bailey, use Stubbs as a throw in, and see what else it takes to get Holliday.

Although we have a snowball's chance in Hell to get Matt Holliday, regardless of who we send them.

Tom Servo
05-15-2008, 10:26 PM
It's worth seeing what the Rockies price is for him. With Dunn and Junior likely gone after this year Walt will need a power outfielder and the free agent market for outfielder in 2008 looks pretty barren.

Raisor
05-15-2008, 10:32 PM
For the money, I'd just assume keep Dunn around.

It's going to be a wash money wise, especially after next year, and you don't lose any prospects.

What it would take to trade for Holliday+Dunn > Holliday.


Plus, after this season, Holliday would be eligable to demand a trade. Then you're not only out Holliday, but whatever you gave up to get him.

macro
05-15-2008, 10:51 PM
Rosenthal notes that the Rockies are already ten games back...

They're 15-25 after 40 games, which is not good, but last year they were 17-25, 8 games out, and in last place after 42 games. Should they win two and the Dbacks lose two, they'll be exactly where they were last year at the same time. Sure, teams don't routinely make comebacks like that one did, but I think it's premature to write them off, which is what is implied.

PuffyPig
05-15-2008, 11:22 PM
Fogg, Freel, Roenicke, and Stubbs for Holliday. Then sign him to a 6 year, $8 Million extension. And then flip him to Texas for Josh Hamilton.

1. Zero chance they move Holliday without getting a least one stud prospect. Your package isn't even close.

2. Zero chance Holliday would sign for that. He'll get more than Dunn. He'll get closer to twice what you say than what you say.

3. Sign and trade? This ain't the NBA.

Thanks for playing.

Tom Servo
05-16-2008, 07:12 AM
I thought it was pretty clear guttle was joking.

buckeyenut
05-16-2008, 08:05 PM
They want low level, high ceiling prospects. Do we have any of those? Bailey and Bruce are both high level guys and apparently COL feels like their minors are stocked.

Maybe Chris Dickerson (to take over now if they need it), Juan Fransisco, Todd Frazier, Drew Stubbs or something like that for Holliday. I know its probably not enough, but I don't know anything at all about the young prospects.

cincrazy
05-16-2008, 09:21 PM
I thought it was pretty clear guttle was joking.

Agreed

cincinnati chili
05-18-2008, 04:54 AM
If Holliday were to hit the open market today, the bidding would start at 7 years, $140 million. As he's not going to hit the open market until the end of next season, it will depend on what he does next year. He'll be 30 when he starts his first free agency season (2010).

Wheelhouse
05-18-2008, 05:47 AM
I think they'd have to look long and hard at Bailey and Stubbs for Holliday.

GAC
05-18-2008, 05:55 AM
Wonder if the Pirates are interested in trading Bay. He's in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal. Makes 6 mil this year, and is signed through '09 for 7.5 mil.

Career .281 BA .377 OB% .514 SLG% .891 OPS

He's RH'd power who is currently 8th in the NL in Hrs (9) and 4th in BB (31).

Think they'd take some high level prospects for him?

Redhook
05-18-2008, 07:52 AM
Wonder if the Pirates are interested in trading Bay. He's in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal. Makes 6 mil this year, and is signed through '09 for 7.5 mil.

Career .281 BA .377 OB% .514 SLG% .891 OPS

He's RH'd power who is currently 8th in the NL in Hrs (9) and 4th in BB (31).

Think they'd take some high level prospects for him?

Jason Bay is a great target for the Reds. He would fit perfectly between Bruce and Votto in the 4th spot. When I think of the most successful Reds team in the last 20 years they usually had a RH bat in the 4th spot. Vaughn, Gant, Davis (occasionally), Mitchell. For some reason, having that RH bat in the 4th spot stabalizes the lineup.

I'd offer Bailey and Stubbs for him. Or Stubbs, Maloney, and Belisle. I really don't know how much it'd take, but I would try real hard to make it happen.

This lineup would be pretty good next year if it happened:

Kepp
EE
Bruce/Votto
Bay
Votto/Bruce
Phillips
CF
C

And just think if the Reds got an upgrade in CF or C too. Then it'd really take off.

jojo
05-18-2008, 09:02 AM
Or Stubbs, Maloney, and Belisle. I really don't know how much it'd take, but I would try real hard to make it happen.

Stubbs, Maloney, and Belisle would be trying real hard to make it happen?

*BaseClogger*
05-18-2008, 10:37 AM
Jason Bay is an excellent target. It's too bad the Marlins have had early season success because I love me some Josh Willingham...

Redhook
05-18-2008, 11:45 AM
Stubbs, Maloney, and Belisle would be trying real hard to make it happen?

I guess we might have to throw in Patterson as well. ;)

WebScorpion
05-19-2008, 01:42 AM
I guess we might have to throw in Patterson as well. ;)

You're supposed to raise the bid, not lower it... :rolleyes:

fearofpopvol1
05-19-2008, 02:54 AM
Even though the Pirates haven't been as hot lately, I doubt they'd be up for trading (in their division no less) this early in the season.

KronoRed
05-19-2008, 11:17 AM
If the Rockies can't afford Holliday then neither can we.

Bay is a interesting thought, but the Pirates have the same record as the Reds at the moment, that might be an off season type of trade.

Jpup
05-19-2008, 01:09 PM
Bay is a great idea, but his HGH wore off before last season. The guy has completely fallen apart.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2008, 01:15 PM
Bay is a great idea, but his HGH wore off before last season. The guy has completely fallen apart.

Fallen apart? He's hitting .258/.392/.477.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2008, 01:18 PM
It's too bad the Marlins have had early season success

No way their success holds up. They have a one-way ticket down.

Team Clark
05-19-2008, 01:26 PM
Bay is a great idea, but his HGH wore off before last season. The guy has completely fallen apart.

Maybe the team around him is getting worse! :thumbup:

I'll take a shot at Bay before I take one on Holliday. (Kinda rhymes doesn't it?) I'd really hate to see the Reds part with Roenicke. From what I have seen of him I really think he can be a top set up guy.

Jpup
05-19-2008, 01:43 PM
Fallen apart? He's hitting .258/.392/.477.

check out last season. That certainly wasn't Jason Bay like.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2008, 01:44 PM
check out last season. That certainly wasn't Jason Bay like.

He had a down season. It happens.

Jpup
05-19-2008, 02:25 PM
He had a down season. It happens.

not to superstars.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2008, 02:32 PM
not to superstars.

Who said Bay was a superstar?

Jpup
05-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Who said Bay was a superstar?

I say that he was before 2007. He was one of the best hitters in the game. That is why I suspect hormone enhancement.

*BaseClogger*
05-19-2008, 03:29 PM
No way their success holds up. They have a one-way ticket down.

might make them believe their window to compete opens in 2009 instead of 2010 though...

jojo
05-19-2008, 07:06 PM
I say that he was before 2007. He was one of the best hitters in the game. That is why I suspect hormone enhancement.

His career average OPS+ is 130. He currently has an OPS+ of 129.

cincrazy
05-19-2008, 11:52 PM
I say that he was before 2007. He was one of the best hitters in the game. That is why I suspect hormone enhancement.

I don't think it's fair to Bay, or to anyone really, to blindly throw around the "performance enhancement" accusation. Some Hall of Fame player's have had years they'd rather forget. It happens to everyone, and it happened to Jason Bay. Surround him with some quality hitters, and I guarantee you see a major rise in his stats.

Topcat
05-20-2008, 04:15 AM
Fallen apart? He's hitting .258/.392/.477.


No way in H e double hockey sticks did Bay do HGH! I would absolutely be floored if that was the case.

GAC
05-21-2008, 09:06 PM
I don't think it's fair to Bay, or to anyone really, to blindly throw around the "performance enhancement" accusation. Some Hall of Fame player's have had years they'd rather forget. It happens to everyone, and it happened to Jason Bay. Surround him with some quality hitters, and I guarantee you see a major rise in his stats.

Exactly. I agree.