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coachw513
05-17-2008, 01:20 PM
Wow...a scathing indictment of Bailey's attitude in Hal McCoy's blog if you haven't seen it:


And we’d all better shut up (me included) for now about bringing up Homer Bailey. He got beat up for the second straight time Friday night, walking six in five innings.

Our man who covers the Dayton Dragons, Marc Katz, visited Louisville recently and he asked Homer one question: “Have you learned anything down here.”

Homer’s answer was, “No,” and he walked away. End of interview. And that’s why Homer is still in Louisville and may remain there for a long time - or be traded.

Another story. I got this from two scouts and another impeccable source who saw it. On the day before a pitcher starts, he sits in the stands and charts the pitches of his team’s pitcher that night. It was Homer’s turn to chart that night, but he was reading a hunting magazine most of the time and paying little attention to what was going on on the field.

Another scout who has watched him said his fastball is down three to four miles an hour and he can’t throw it by anybody - in TRIPLE A! “I saw him two starts ago and he acted as if he didn’t care,” said the scout.

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 01:30 PM
Already been discussed. Hal is about 2-3 days late on this one, like usual.

icehole3
05-17-2008, 01:39 PM
is it time to Edison Volquez Homer to Dayton???

http://www.SternFanNetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Animations/dontknow.gif

NJReds
05-17-2008, 02:09 PM
So because Homer gave a curt answer to a dumb question will the Dayton Daily News now go all-negative, all the time on Homer.

cincyinco
05-17-2008, 02:14 PM
Stupid question by a stupid reporter, I agree.

Myself, I'd probably give the same type of smart ass answer and walk off.

Its just more venom IMO.

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 02:16 PM
Stupid question by a stupid reporter, I agree.

Myself, I'd probably give the same type of smart ass answer and walk off.

Its just more venom IMO.

Agreed. I have been saying for days that the question would have gotten a completely different response if it were phrased 'what have you learned in your time in Louisville'.

Spring~Fields
05-17-2008, 02:17 PM
So because Homer gave a curt answer to a dumb question will the Dayton Daily News now go all-negative, all the time on Homer.

I think that it has more to do with the performance outcomes of Homers lately than anything else. Major leaguers can hit his fast ball when he can get it over with his other complimentary pitches. Bailey needs more work or a change of scenery, I am guessing. Then again maybe Bailey feels that he was a better pitcher than Fogg or Belisle and others and is upset. I don't know.

NJReds
05-17-2008, 02:22 PM
I think that it has more to do with the performance outcomes of Homers lately than anything else. Major leaguers can hit his fast ball when he can get it over with his other complimentary pitches. Bailey needs more work or a change of scenery, I am guessing. Then again maybe Bailey feels that he was a better pitcher than Fogg or Belisle and others and is upset. I don't know.

Maybe he thought it was a stupid question, which, if phrased as written in the blog it was. There are other ways to ask that question other than "Did you learn anything down here."

One of my first jobs out of collage was a reporter. I was a sportswriter for a short time, working in NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA lockerrooms. If you go into a lockerroom right after a game, and a guy had a bad performance and you ask a snide question, be prepared for a not so kind response. I don't care if the athlete is 20 or 40.

I don't doubt that Homer needs some seasoning, and that his last couple starts have been disappointing. But the way that the media covers athletes these days leaves a lot to be desired. Then to rip the guy in a blog after the fact is classless.

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 02:35 PM
But the way that the media covers athletes these days leaves a lot to be desired. Then to rip the guy in a blog after the fact is classless.

What makes it even better is that McCoy was not within 100 miles when that quote was made.

Spring~Fields
05-17-2008, 02:40 PM
It is a dumb and ambiguous question that could be interpreted in different ways in which any given answer could be misconstrued. So his handling of the question is right in my perception. It is a baiting and ambiguous question where the writer was probably attempting to get a bigger story out of a slip of the tongue by Bailey when the writer might have had reason to believe that Hamilton was frustrated to begin with.

I don't think that Bailey is learning anything down there with Ted Power as his pitching coach, but I do think that he would have continued problems with the major league batters and their ability to hit a fastball. Bailey might be better served if the Reds did like St. Louis did with Wainright, I mean wasn't he spotted out of the bullpen at the mlb level to improve? and now is performing respectably? But the Reds have never mentioned that seriously as a possibility for the Bailey development. So we are left to assume that he is better served with time in the minors for a lack of any alternatives.

DTCromer
05-17-2008, 03:46 PM
So does anyone actually think Homer is anywhere near coming up to Cincy? Because by looking at his numbers, he doesn't deserve to.

Why criticize Hal? he's just going by what he's hearing from other scouts and this isn't the first time we've heard about his attitude. How come we've never heard articles like this about Jay Bruce or any other prospect in Louisville? Did we ever hear anything like this from Cueto last year?

One good thing, I guess, is that he sounds like Volquez and Thompson before they were traded.

I just don't get why people want to criticize Hal instead of the guy in Louisville who isn't performing like he should.

Blue
05-17-2008, 03:52 PM
I'm not worried about his attitude. Josh Beckett has a bad attitude too, but he isn't lambasted repeatedly in the media over it. I'm worred about his fastball, his strikeout numbers, and his HR rate.

reds44
05-17-2008, 03:55 PM
I'm not worried about his attitude. Josh Beckett has a bad attitude too, but he isn't lambasted repeatedly in the media over it. I'm worred about his fastball, his strikeout numbers, and his HR rate.
Beckett's attitude doesn't hurt what he does on the field.

Blue
05-17-2008, 03:56 PM
So does anyone actually think Homer is anywhere near coming up to Cincy? Because by looking at his numbers, he doesn't deserve to.

Why criticize Hal? he's just going by what he's hearing from other scouts and this isn't the first time we've heard about his attitude. How come we've never heard articles like this about Jay Bruce or any other prospect in Louisville? Did we ever hear anything like this from Cueto last year?

One good thing, I guess, is that he sounds like Volquez and Thompson before they were traded.

I just don't get why people want to criticize Hal instead of the guy in Louisville who isn't performing like he should.


Because Bailey failed in his limited first go around in the majors, and to the reporters who cover the Reds, that's like wearing a sign on your back that says "PILE ON!".

Blue
05-17-2008, 04:00 PM
Beckett's attitude doesn't huer what he does on the field.

What makes you think Bailey's alleged bad attitude is what is causing his problems? I'd say that if the reports about his fastball velocity are accurate, we need not jump to the conclusion that his attitude is the reason he is not having sucess.

DTCromer
05-17-2008, 04:13 PM
Because Bailey failed in his limited first go around in the majors, and to the reporters who cover the Reds, that's like wearing a sign on your back that says "PILE ON!".

So they're piling on Homer because he wasn't that good in his first stint in the majors? Tell Homer to grow up and do his job in the minors and then maybe Hal wouldn't write more columns like this. Hunting magazines during a game? That's pathetic.

Blue
05-17-2008, 04:35 PM
So they're piling on Homer because he wasn't that good in his first stint in the majors? Tell Homer to grow up and do his job in the minors and then maybe Hal wouldn't write more columns like this. Hunting magazines during a game? That's pathetic.

Yes. You think anyone would be writing about that if he were tearing up AAA? I don't. I think they'd be writing about how he should be with the big club immediately.

LoganBuck
05-17-2008, 04:43 PM
Leave Homer Alone!

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 05:20 PM
So they're piling on Homer because he wasn't that good in his first stint in the majors? Tell Homer to grow up and do his job in the minors and then maybe Hal wouldn't write more columns like this. Hunting magazines during a game? That's pathetic.

I think things get started like this out of people not liking Bailey. I also heard the Hunting Magazine story..... except when I heard it he was charting the game and reading the magazine in between innings. Someone asked him for an autograph and he said no because he then would have had to sign for everyone.

Stories like this get written because Bailey doesn't like doing interviews, hates dumb questions and people get on him for it.

Ghosts of 1990
05-17-2008, 06:14 PM
How about when Hal said; 'Homer, we hardly knew ye'.

That's not very classy IMO for Mccoy to do. Who is he now, Marty Brennamen?

DTCromer
05-17-2008, 06:19 PM
Stories like this get written because Bailey doesn't like doing interviews, hates dumb questions and people get on him for it.

Ha, ok. Mature people don't just say "No" to a question and walk away. Most would just say no and keep on answering. Professionals know about all the dumb questions media members ask. They keep on answering.

Homer's with the big boys now (well, not acting like quite yet) and he's still being treated like a 7-year-old from our fans.

"Awww, poor Homer! He's getting roughed up by the media! Pooooor baby!"

You think Jay Bruce hasn't been asked a stupid question yet? According to some of the responses, it doesn't appear that way.

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 07:18 PM
Ha, ok. Mature people don't just say "No" to a question and walk away. Most would just say no and keep on answering. Professionals know about all the dumb questions media members ask. They keep on answering.

Homer's with the big boys now (well, not acting like quite yet) and he's still being treated like a 7-year-old from our fans.

"Awww, poor Homer! He's getting roughed up by the media! Pooooor baby!"

You think Jay Bruce hasn't been asked a stupid question yet? According to some of the responses, it doesn't appear that way.

People don't like dumb questions, especially those who are scrutinized every second like Bailey is. Does he need to grow up some? Probably. But lets not pretend it doesn't happen in the big leagues.

Brandon Phillips told reporters last year to go talk to Hamilton and Griffey because its all they ever wanted to talk about anyways. Then this year he told them he wasn't talking to them because they didn't want to talk to him when he was not doing good.

Billy Wagner went off on reporters the other day because they were talking to him when he didn't even play that day.

It happens. Brandon Phillips has done it twice and its not really been a big deal, but when Homer Bailey does it people lose their mind.

redhawk61
05-17-2008, 07:39 PM
People don't like dumb questions, especially those who are scrutinized every second like Bailey is. Does he need to grow up some? Probably. But lets not pretend it doesn't happen in the big leagues.

Brandon Phillips told reporters last year to go talk to Hamilton and Griffey because its all they ever wanted to talk about anyways. Then this year he told them he wasn't talking to them because they didn't want to talk to him when he was not doing good.

Billy Wagner went off on reporters the other day because they were talking to him when he didn't even play that day.

It happens. Brandon Phillips has done it twice and its not really been a big deal, but when Homer Bailey does it people lose their mind.

Brandon and Wagner have earned the right to tell the media to leave them alone whenever they want. Homer has not earned that right.

It relates to Bull Durham when Costner yells at Tim for having moldy slippers. When your a young kid in the minors, you are immature for it, when you are in the bigs it shows you have character.

dougdirt
05-17-2008, 07:45 PM
Brandon and Wagner have earned the right to tell the media to leave them alone whenever they want. Homer has not earned that right.

It relates to Bull Durham when Costner yells at Tim for having moldy slippers. When your a young kid in the minors, you are immature for it, when you are in the bigs it shows you have character.

And that kind of excuse is BS. Either you are mature or you aren't. Bailey, at least is young. Phillips is 26 and Wagner is 30+. None of it is called for by any of them.

DTCromer
05-17-2008, 07:59 PM
Homer acts as if he this is unexpected for a 1st round draft pick who this organization and city have hoped would come around.

Redeye fly
05-17-2008, 08:11 PM
Yes. You think anyone would be writing about that if he were tearing up AAA? I don't. I think they'd be writing about how he should be with the big club immediately.

BUT, if little or maybe not so little things like this are part of the reason that he's not tearing up AAA then it's a problem.

We'll see I guess.

redhawk61
05-17-2008, 08:11 PM
And that kind of excuse is BS. Either you are mature or you aren't. Bailey, at least is young. Phillips is 26 and Wagner is 30+. None of it is called for by any of them.

agreed I am just stating the way it is.

TRF
05-17-2008, 08:20 PM
Billy Wagner went off on reporters the other day because they were talking to him when he didn't even play that day.

Way out of context and you know it. Wagner was ripping his TEAMMATES for not talking to the press.

Keep defending Bailey, Stubbs and whatever ML player you want for poor performances, but don't make stuff up. It's beneath you.

ChatterRed
05-17-2008, 08:29 PM
Freaking Jay Bruce is giving the Reds more than a reason to bring him up, and Bailey is pouting like a 10 year old. Maybe if he was more professional, they'd bring him up. They're probably figuring he needs 2 to 5 years in the minors just to mature and act his age.

ChatterRed
05-17-2008, 08:30 PM
People don't like dumb questions, especially those who are scrutinized every second like Bailey is. Does he need to grow up some? Probably. But lets not pretend it doesn't happen in the big leagues.

Brandon Phillips told reporters last year to go talk to Hamilton and Griffey because its all they ever wanted to talk about anyways. Then this year he told them he wasn't talking to them because they didn't want to talk to him when he was not doing good.

Billy Wagner went off on reporters the other day because they were talking to him when he didn't even play that day.

It happens. Brandon Phillips has done it twice and its not really been a big deal, but when Homer Bailey does it people lose their mind.

I completely disagree with your twisted analysis. :rolleyes:

Blue
05-17-2008, 09:32 PM
BUT, if little or maybe not so little things like this are part of the reason that he's not tearing up AAA then it's a problem.

We'll see I guess.

I don't think we'll see, because the effect of his attitude on his performance isn't observable.

Redeye fly
05-17-2008, 10:29 PM
Directly observable, no.

But if he does have a bit of an attitude problem, maybe that leads to his not taking the suggestions of a pitching coach that would have helped. Maybe that leads to him shaking off his catcher and then proceeding to throw a meatball to the batter. Maybe that leads to his not wanting to do what he needs to in the offseason and on days he doesn't pitch, because he doesn't feel like it. Maybe it keeps him from ever reaching his full potential and being nothing more than a Rob Bell or Todd Van Poppel. It's not as if he would be the first or last athlete in any sport who failed to meet his potential because of some attitude issue.

I'm willing to withhold judgment on Bailey, but if there's anything at all to the negative stories then he might be a little too high maintenance for my liking. I look at a free spirited pitcher in this organization and have Brett Tomko flashbacks, even if Bailey has a better arm, and even if Tomko as a Red was better than Fogg or Belisle as Reds. I just did not see anything to get excited about when I saw Bailey last year, but then I suppose I have to stop and remind myself he was pitching with an injury as well.

pahster
05-17-2008, 10:54 PM
Freaking Jay Bruce is giving the Reds more than a reason to bring him up, and Bailey is pouting like a 10 year old. Maybe if he was more professional, they'd bring him up. They're probably figuring he needs 2 to 5 years in the minors just to mature and act his age.

Um...no. Bailey will come up when he's ready to pitch successfully in the majors. Being "more professional" has nothing to do with being a baseball player.

Kingspoint
05-17-2008, 11:45 PM
All I care about is what the AAA Manager thinks. I have a ton of respect for him. I have none for Hal McCoy.

LoganBuck
05-17-2008, 11:53 PM
Leave Homer Alone!

Homer peed in McCoy's Wheaties somewhere along the line, and McCoy has been on him since.

Let it go. The weather warms up again this week, watch Homer take off again. I don't think he does well in the cold or the wind. If the game time temp is below 60 he seems to have issues.

cincyinco
05-18-2008, 12:07 AM
Ha, ok. Mature people don't just say "No" to a question and walk away. Most would just say no and keep on answering. Professionals know about all the dumb questions media members ask. They keep on answering.

Homer's with the big boys now (well, not acting like quite yet) and he's still being treated like a 7-year-old from our fans.

"Awww, poor Homer! He's getting roughed up by the media! Pooooor baby!"

You think Jay Bruce hasn't been asked a stupid question yet? According to some of the responses, it doesn't appear that way.


I look at it the other way. He's getting drilled by our fans.

And

"Awww, poor Media! You're getting roughed up by Homer Bailey! He didn't answer your stupid, half assed question. Poor baby!

Blue
05-18-2008, 12:45 AM
I look at it the other way. He's getting drilled by our fans.

And

"Awww, poor Media! You're getting roughed up by Homer Bailey! He didn't answer your stupid, half assed question. Poor baby!

BINGO

Blue
05-18-2008, 12:48 AM
Directly observable, no.

But if he does have a bit of an attitude problem, maybe that leads to his not taking the suggestions of a pitching coach that would have helped...

I agree with this, but I don't think "we'll see", because whether he succeeds or fails, we won't be able to discern whether it is attributable to a change in attitude.

ChatterRed
05-18-2008, 01:25 AM
Directly observable, no.

But if he does have a bit of an attitude problem, maybe that leads to his not taking the suggestions of a pitching coach that would have helped. Maybe that leads to him shaking off his catcher and then proceeding to throw a meatball to the batter. Maybe that leads to his not wanting to do what he needs to in the offseason and on days he doesn't pitch, because he doesn't feel like it. Maybe it keeps him from ever reaching his full potential and being nothing more than a Rob Bell or Todd Van Poppel. It's not as if he would be the first or last athlete in any sport who failed to meet his potential because of some attitude issue.

I'm willing to withhold judgment on Bailey, but if there's anything at all to the negative stories then he might be a little too high maintenance for my liking. I look at a free spirited pitcher in this organization and have Brett Tomko flashbacks, even if Bailey has a better arm, and even if Tomko as a Red was better than Fogg or Belisle as Reds. I just did not see anything to get excited about when I saw Bailey last year, but then I suppose I have to stop and remind myself he was pitching with an injury as well.

Excellent post. Well said.

Plenty of players who had the potential to be great who fell short due to poor work ethic.

dougdirt
05-18-2008, 04:33 AM
I completely disagree with your twisted analysis. :rolleyes:

You can disagree with it all you want. Brandon Phillips does something very similar this year and hardly anything is said about it. He actually goes off and tells a media member that they need to go talk to other players on the team because its all they want to talk about anyways and again, nothing is really made of it. Homer Bailey says something to a writer who asked a dumb question in AAA and this big deal is made out of it.

Frankly, I don't give two craps if Bailey is or is not a jerk to the media or even to the fans really. Don't go Ty Cobb and beat up fans in the stands, but yeah. Just play well and its all that matters to me. Its just funny that if this had happened, and has happened with other players, its not a big deal. When Homer Bailey does it, its a big deal.

icehole3
05-18-2008, 05:45 AM
I agree Doug, if Bailey wants to get back to the bigs he will have to force the Reds hand whether its by trade or by pitching lights out, at this point in time I would still bring him up first if there was an injury to a starter. Him or Thompson.

Lockdwn11
05-18-2008, 08:49 AM
All I have to say on this is Bailey had his rotation spot all but lock up before spring traning and he pitched his way out of it and into AAA. If he is mad or upset he should do something about it. He has no one to blame but himself. Being a jerk or a punk ( to anybody) right or wrong does nothing to help his cause.

NJReds
05-18-2008, 09:34 AM
Why criticize Hal? he's just going by what he's hearing from other scouts and this isn't the first time we've heard about his attitude. .

I just don't get why people want to criticize Hal instead of the guy in Louisville who isn't performing like he should.

This isn't about performance. It's about ripping a player in a blog based on a snide response to a stupid question (that Hal didn't even ask). It's about taking a hearsay account and running it in a blog without going to the guy or the organization and asking for clarification.

It was lazy, hack reporting from a Hall of Fame reporter who should know better.

Matt700wlw
05-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Damn terseness

Steve4192
05-18-2008, 12:46 PM
http://media.canada.com/8c8b3290-2b08-4dc6-8e3e-2cc645fdfe05/070920_crocker.jpg

LEAVE HOMER ALONE!!!!

NJReds
05-18-2008, 12:51 PM
http://media.canada.com/8c8b3290-2b08-4dc6-8e3e-2cc645fdfe05/070920_crocker.jpg

LEAVE HAL ALONE!!!!

Works this way, too.

kaldaniels
05-18-2008, 11:25 PM
You can disagree with it all you want. Brandon Phillips does something very similar this year and hardly anything is said about it. He actually goes off and tells a media member that they need to go talk to other players on the team because its all they want to talk about anyways and again, nothing is really made of it. Homer Bailey says something to a writer who asked a dumb question in AAA and this big deal is made out of it.

Frankly, I don't give two craps if Bailey is or is not a jerk to the media or even to the fans really. Don't go Ty Cobb and beat up fans in the stands, but yeah. Just play well and its all that matters to me. Its just funny that if this had happened, and has happened with other players, its not a big deal. When Homer Bailey does it, its a big deal.

Hal ripped Brandon in a column this year for the incident you mention.

dougdirt
05-18-2008, 11:27 PM
Hal ripped Brandon in a column this year for the incident you mention.

And how did everyone else run with it? Not much at all.

kaldaniels
05-18-2008, 11:33 PM
And how did everyone else run with it? Not much at all.

I'm not sure who you are referring to as everyone (media/the forum/etc).

dougdirt
05-18-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm not sure who you are referring to as everyone (media/the forum/etc).

More fan's and people on the forum than the media.

kaldaniels
05-18-2008, 11:38 PM
More fan's and people on the forum than the media.

Gotcha. I was just pointing out in terms of Hal...this is the 2nd ripjob done this year based on unpleasantness in the lockerroom. Good thing then he isn't the guy/girl that interviews the college football coach as they head into the lockerroom at the half.

klw
05-19-2008, 08:13 AM
More fan's and people on the forum than the media.

Well the thread on Phillips being "grumpy" reached 5 pages, so it hardly went unnoticed. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67703&highlight=phillips+reporter

DTCromer
05-19-2008, 09:43 AM
Ha ha. . .I'm still reading these responses and I'm amazed at how everyone is protecting Homer. Homer is an adult. He was our #1 pick. He's been disappointing. He hasn't pitched well. He's had a history of pouting and acting like a baby. Obviously, this is a sign of immaturity and people refuse to admit the guy just isn't mentally ready to be a major league baseball player both physically and mentally. I'd be surprised if this guy was up here this year. Or, at least if he was up here, I'd be surprised if he pitched well.

I want Homer to do well because he's a Cincinnati Reds player. But right now, I don't have much faith in him.

kaldaniels
05-19-2008, 11:17 AM
Well the thread on Phillips being "grumpy" reached 5 pages, so it hardly went unnoticed. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67703&highlight=phillips+reporter

Thanks...I kinda was thinking that last night but couldn't find the thread.

dougdirt
05-19-2008, 01:53 PM
Ha ha. . .I'm still reading these responses and I'm amazed at how everyone is protecting Homer. Homer is an adult. He was our #1 pick. He's been disappointing. He hasn't pitched well. He's had a history of pouting and acting like a baby. Obviously, this is a sign of immaturity and people refuse to admit the guy just isn't mentally ready to be a major league baseball player both physically and mentally. I'd be surprised if this guy was up here this year. Or, at least if he was up here, I'd be surprised if he pitched well.

I want Homer to do well because he's a Cincinnati Reds player. But right now, I don't have much faith in him.
I don't think Bailey has been disappointing. He is a top 10 prospect in baseball and is 22 years old. However this defending has nothing to do with his ability on the field, it has to do with making a big deal out of someone being a smart ace to a reporter who asked a dumb question. Its just silly. He didn't want to talk to a reporter? So what. Not everyone is Jay Bruce (it would be sweet if they were). I don't care (for the most part) what kind of people these guys are.... I just want them to be good baseball players.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2008, 02:07 PM
Judging from not only this article, but some of his other comments directed toward Homer in spring training, it seems Hal has a grudge against Homer Bailey. It wouldn't be the first time he's had a grudge against a player...

DTCromer
05-19-2008, 03:17 PM
I don't think Bailey has been disappointing. He is a top 10 prospect in baseball and is 22 years old. However this defending has nothing to do with his ability on the field, it has to do with making a big deal out of someone being a smart ace to a reporter who asked a dumb question. Its just silly. He didn't want to talk to a reporter? So what. Not everyone is Jay Bruce (it would be sweet if they were). I don't care (for the most part) what kind of people these guys are.... I just want them to be good baseball players.

My point is that these guys are asked dumb questions all the time. If he's not used to it by now, then he's an idiot. Plain and simple.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-19-2008, 04:13 PM
I don't think Bailey has been disappointing. He is a top 10 prospect in baseball and is 22 years old.

I don't think he's still a top 10 prospect.

dougdirt
05-19-2008, 04:19 PM
I don't think he's still a top 10 prospect.
Well then he certainly is a top 20 prospect. Either way, that isn't a disappointment to people who understand how things work. Sure, it might be a disappointment to people who give up on players at age 22.... but what do they know?

TRF
05-19-2008, 04:41 PM
I think by year's end IF Bailey isn't in Cincinnati, and it'll take more than what Belisle And Bailey have been doing, He'll still be a top 10 prospect. He's had a couple of rough starts, but nothing a few good starts won't erase from people's minds.

NJReds
05-19-2008, 05:19 PM
My point is that these guys are asked dumb questions all the time. If he's not used to it by now, then he's an idiot. Plain and simple.

Guys in the pros for 20 years do the same exact thing. Even worse. I have no problem with his response in this particular case.

gm
05-19-2008, 07:56 PM
The "it" I'm referring to is the desire to dominate (like Ryan, Clemens, etc)

from Hal McCoy's blog (if this was posted earlier, my bad)


And we’d all better shut up (me included) for now about bringing up Homer Bailey. He got beat up for the second straight time Friday night, walking six in five innings.

Our man who covers the Dayton Dragons, Marc Katz, visited Louisville recently and he asked Homer one question: “Have you learned anything down here.”

Homer’s answer was, “No,” and he walked away. End of interview. And that’s why Homer is still in Louisville and may remain there for a long time - or be traded.

Another story. I got this from two scouts and another impeccable source who saw it. On the day before a pitcher starts, he sits in the stands and charts the pitches of his team’s pitcher that night. It was Homer’s turn to chart that night, but he was reading a hunting magazine most of the time and paying little attention to what was going on on the field.

Another scout who has watched him said his fastball is down three to four miles an hour and he can’t throw it by anybody - in TRIPLE A! “I saw him two starts ago and he acted as if he didn’t care,” said the scout.

Homer, we hardly knew ye.

You can measure a ballplayer's height and velocity, but so often his intangibles tell the real story.

kaldaniels
05-19-2008, 07:58 PM
The "it" I'm referring to is the desire to dominate (like Ryan, Clemens, etc)

from Hal McCoy's blog (if this was posted earlier, my bad)



You can measure a ballplayer's height and velocity, but so often his intangibles tell the real story.

They're all over this one in the minor league forum.

dougdirt
05-19-2008, 07:59 PM
Blah Blah Blah. Homer Bailey is a jerk so he will never be good at baseball.

I heard that same hunting magazine story and thats not exactly how I heard it. I also heard it from a first hand witness. Sounds like sour grapes.

That said... I am not sure Hal has 'it' anymore.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2008, 08:01 PM
If you go back and read some of Hal's articles and blog posts on Homer, it's easy to see the guy has a grudge against Homer for some reason.

mikemo14
05-19-2008, 08:22 PM
Its very obvious the players that Hal is fond of or not. He does not like Homer Bailey period!

Highlifeman21
05-19-2008, 08:25 PM
Seems like where there's smoke, there's usually some sort of fire.

I don't know what Homer Bailey wants to do with the rest of his life, and I have no idea about his drive, desire, or work ethic, but it is every disheartening to read, see, etc about our top SP prospect reading a hunting magazine instead of charting (when he was supposed to be charting). I want this kid to come up and join the rotation, and the Reds will live happily ever after as a much better ballclub in 2009 and going forward, but Homer unfortunately is a big piece of that puzzle, and it seems like he's coming across with some sense of entitlement, and in my book he hasn't earned anything to date. We shouldn't give him anything, he has to earn it. The only thing he's earned is more time in AAA.

And it doesn't seem to phase him.

That's what bothers me about Homer Bailey. He acts like he doesn't care that he's in AAA. He just seems to be going through the motions, IMO. I just wish he'd take his craft and his profession more seriously, and show some passion, b/c to this point I've just seen an immature kid that's found his own ways to pout that he's not on the MLB roster when he thinks he should be.

Maybe Hal's writing with an agenda, but there's some fire causing this smoke.

SMcGavin
05-19-2008, 08:44 PM
Blah Blah Blah. Homer Bailey is a jerk so he will never be good at baseball.


Very few if any are saying this. It's not unreasonable to wonder after this story (and other Homer stories) if Homer's immaturity is negatively affecting his progress in AAA. Obviously it's easy to argue against the caricature that says Homer is doomed, it's much more difficult to say there is nothing at all to worry about. I tend to think Homer will be alright eventually, but I also think his progress is being slowed a bit by a lack of maturity and focus. Do you disagree with that take?

OnBaseMachine
05-20-2008, 12:00 PM
From Hal. Still can't resist taking shots:

I knew it, I knew, I knew it. I just knew it wouldn’t be long before Homer took the mound in front of the Cincinnati Reds. It happened Monday night in Dodger Stadium.

Homer Bailey? Uh, no.

It was Homer Simpson, or a guy dressed up like Homer Simpson. He threw out the game’s first pitch. He bounced it and I won’t make any derogatory comments about it resembling something Homer Bailey is throwing lately.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

NJReds
05-20-2008, 02:29 PM
From Hal. Still can't resist taking shots:

I knew it, I knew, I knew it. I just knew it wouldn’t be long before Homer took the mound in front of the Cincinnati Reds. It happened Monday night in Dodger Stadium.

Homer Bailey? Uh, no.

It was Homer Simpson, or a guy dressed up like Homer Simpson. He threw out the game’s first pitch. He bounced it and I won’t make any derogatory comments about it resembling something Homer Bailey is throwing lately.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Wow. Stay classy, Hal.

ChatterRed
05-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Funny stuff. Hal is always right on.

LoganBuck
05-20-2008, 04:17 PM
From Hal. Still can't resist taking shots:

I knew it, I knew, I knew it. I just knew it wouldn’t be long before Homer took the mound in front of the Cincinnati Reds. It happened Monday night in Dodger Stadium.

Homer Bailey? Uh, no.

It was Homer Simpson, or a guy dressed up like Homer Simpson. He threw out the game’s first pitch. He bounced it and I won’t make any derogatory comments about it resembling something Homer Bailey is throwing lately.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

The Reds could use a secret weapon these days.

Blue
05-20-2008, 05:00 PM
From Hal. Still can't resist taking shots:

I knew it, I knew, I knew it. I just knew it wouldn’t be long before Homer took the mound in front of the Cincinnati Reds. It happened Monday night in Dodger Stadium.

Homer Bailey? Uh, no.

It was Homer Simpson, or a guy dressed up like Homer Simpson. He threw out the game’s first pitch. He bounced it and I won’t make any derogatory comments about it resembling something Homer Bailey is throwing lately.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

Someone must have told him that blogs are supposed to be "edgy". This is really unlike Hal, and I don't like it.

The media that covers this team drives me completely insane-- slightest chink in the armor and they run you through. They are sophomoric, unduly sensitive as to their own personal dignity, insensitive as to the dignity of others, self-important, snobbish brats who abuse their considerable power by treating their various mediums as a bully pulpit, bringing the intelligence of those who they reach down to the level of the nonsensical drivel they spout daily.

I shouldn't have to mute the television or turn the radio off and watch a live box score just because I prefer to watch baseball while not becoming dumber.

lollipopcurve
05-20-2008, 08:52 PM
Someone must have told him that blogs are supposed to be "edgy". This is really unlike Hal, and I don't like it.

The media that covers this team drives me completely insane-- slightest chink in the armor and they run you through. They are sophomoric, unduly sensitive as to their own personal dignity, insensitive as to the dignity of others, self-important, snobbish brats who abuse their considerable power by treating their various mediums as a bully pulpit, bringing the intelligence of those who they reach down to the level of the nonsensical drivel they spout daily.

I shouldn't have to mute the television or turn the radio off and watch a live box score just because I prefer to watch baseball while not becoming dumber.

Quality rant, Blue.

15fan
05-21-2008, 03:04 PM
Back in the days of Fastball.com, I remember Hal telling us that Delino Deshields was going sign with the Reds & play 2b.

He (along with Marty) was also in the "no way Junior will ever come to Cincinnati" camp back in 1999.

The Dayton Daily News: on par with your local middle school's 6th grade newspaper.

smoke6
05-21-2008, 03:16 PM
I don't care if Homers eats puppies. I want a WS. Belisle won't get us there.

bucksfan2
05-21-2008, 04:16 PM
I don't care if Homers eats puppies. I want a WS. Belisle won't get us there.

Now where did Hal go off and say Homer eats puppies :p:

I agree though. I don't care if the Reds win with jerks or with great players as long as they are still playing baseball into october then I am happy.

I think I want a pitcher with an attitude. I want a pitcher who can be mean. I want a pitche who had the attitude of Clemens on the mound. I want a pitcher when charged will throw a Don Zimmer to the ground. I want a pitcher who will put Robin Ventura in a head lock and beat him.

Aronchis
05-23-2008, 12:47 AM
Now maybe you true believers will not believe in Homer. The guy is a disgrace to anybody that wants to pitch in the majors. I would kill for his talents.

DFA him and don't look back. He isn't even giving 75%.

reds44
05-23-2008, 12:50 AM
DFA him?!

WHAT?

RedlegJake
05-23-2008, 02:11 AM
DFA him?!

WHAT?

You bit. I wish there were a hook line and sinker emoticon.

pahster
05-23-2008, 10:11 AM
Now maybe you true believers will not believe in Homer. The guy is a disgrace to anybody that wants to pitch in the majors. I would kill for his talents.

DFA him and don't look back. He isn't even giving 75%.

Solid analysis. :lol:

Nasty_Boy
05-23-2008, 12:58 PM
If you're a Reds player the one thing you can't do is cross Marty and Hal. They are the voice that most Reds fans hear, and if they're on your case then the fans are right behind them. These 2 "HOFers" are terrible to read and listen too. They pick their favorites and if you're not a favorite then you better watch out. I don't know if the Homer situation is quite what it seems because Hal's view point is always skewed.

As bad as Fay is, he doesn't take cheap shots at the players. I quit reading the DDN because McCoy is so terrible and his opinions are assinine.

camisadelgolf
05-23-2008, 01:27 PM
Now maybe you true believers will not believe in Homer. The guy is a disgrace to anybody that wants to pitch in the majors. I would kill for his talents.

DFA him and don't look back. He isn't even giving 75%.

If two out of three ain't bad, then he ain't doing bad as long as he's giving 67% or more.

Yeah, DFA him. That would give you much better results for the organization than if you were just to trade him. :rolleyes:

Highlifeman21
05-23-2008, 03:04 PM
We should definitely move him for something that will help the MLB roster, rather than an immature kid who takes his talents for granted and seems to have a sense of entitlement.

While I wouldn't DFA him, I would definitely trade him ASAP.

Nasty_Boy
05-23-2008, 03:13 PM
I would stick with Homer as long as possible. There is no way that I would want him figuring it out with some other team, a la Volquez. Stick with him and throw him a bone. I think that the biggest reason he's being pissy in AAA is because he believes he should be in the majors... As soon as he realizes that he just needs to chill and pitch, he'll get the call.

Fon Duc Tow
05-23-2008, 03:29 PM
Most of you have said whether or not you think Homer is "dogging it" to a certain degree.

But why wouldn't Homer be giving 100 percent?

Doesn't he want to make it back to the big leagues?

Of course I cannot relate to what the feeling must be like to pitch in a real MLB game. But I feel like if I even got a small taste of it, I would do everything in my power to get back there as soon as possible.

Oxilon
05-23-2008, 03:54 PM
Personally, from what I've read (albeit mostly subjective opinions from hasbeen and neverwas beat writers) and what I've personally seen out of Homer, he's one stubborn SOB. The talent is obviously there (we've seen him blow the opposition away certain innings) but he also has mental lapses too (see the last few games). He has to realize that playing in the MLB isn't a god given right -- it's a privledge. And as soon as he realizes that and takes all the necessary steps that go along with just pitching every five days, we'll see him up here sooner rather later.

Patrick Bateman
05-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Now maybe you true believers will not believe in Homer. The guy is a disgrace to anybody that wants to pitch in the majors. I would kill for his talents.

DFA him and don't look back. He isn't even giving 75%.

Everyone remember this post. The next time Bailey has a great game, and Aronchis proclaims him to be the best prospect in baseball (he was better than Cueto not that long ago eh?), that Aronchis wanted him DFA'd. So Aronchis, please don't be putting him on your next "prospect list", because as far as I'm concerned, this is your way of proclaiming that he's done as having any kind of value to this organization.

Patrick Bateman
05-23-2008, 04:00 PM
We should definitely move him for something that will help the MLB roster, rather than an immature kid who takes his talents for granted and seems to have a sense of entitlement.

While I wouldn't DFA him, I would definitely trade him ASAP.

While his value is likely at it's lowest? Bailey like any pitcher is going to go through big bumps. You trade him right now, you likely only get a fraction of the return you would get if you waited another half season +. BTW, I'm all for being patient with basically any young pitcher as talented as Bailey, unless of course you do get a crazy offer for him. But the history of baseball is chalk full of red faced GM's that traded their struggling young pitcher way too early.

SMcGavin
05-23-2008, 04:09 PM
While his value is likely at it's lowest? Bailey like any pitcher is going to go through big bumps. You trade him right now, you likely only get a fraction of the return you would get if you waited another half season +. BTW, I'm all for being patient with basically any young pitcher as talented as Bailey, unless of course you do get a crazy offer for him. But the history of baseball is chalk full of red faced GM's that traded their struggling young pitcher way too early.

100% correct. Homer is 22, I don't care if he has to stay in AAA all this year and all next year. That makes him 24, presumably stronger and more mature. The whole situation is strangely similar to Edinson Volquez, another guy with tons of talent who was initially brought to the bigs way too soon. You don't give away arms like his.

OnBaseMachine
05-23-2008, 04:13 PM
Homer Bailey just turned 22 years old. He's got plenty of time to figure it out. Honestly, I don't care if it takes him another two years to figure it out like it did Volquez. Yeah it would be nice if turned into a dominant ace this year or next, but if he doesn't it still doesn't make him a bust. Some guys don't completely figure it out until they get older and mature. Edinson Volquez is the perfect example. Give Homer time, he'll come around.

bucksfan2
05-23-2008, 04:40 PM
Could it possibly be that Homer is going through a dead arm period?

Aronchis
05-23-2008, 06:12 PM
I think it is more a "deadhead" period than a deadarm. Homer is a embarrasement to the organization. Nobody wants him either for any decent talent. The best the Reds have to hope now is he decides to turn it on before he goes somewhere else and does.

Most likely the Reds lose him for talent that will give the franchise modest value in the future. Some vulture/gm is just waiting to snap him up.

Kingspoint
05-24-2008, 03:00 AM
Back in the days of Fastball.com, I remember Hal telling us that Delino Deshields was going sign with the Reds & play 2b.

He (along with Marty) was also in the "no way Junior will ever come to Cincinnati" camp back in 1999.

The Dayton Daily News: on par with your local middle school's 6th grade newspaper.

But, Ludwig's good.

TRF
05-24-2008, 12:01 PM
Volquez is a perfect example of why you DON'T give up on a young pitcher with electric stuff because of maturity issues.

gedred69
05-24-2008, 01:01 PM
Volquez is a perfect example of why you DON'T give up on a young pitcher with electric stuff because of maturity issues.

Yes! Too much was expected of Homer, too early. He started to believe his own hype, and hopefully with some time, he'll eat his Humble Pie and get back to being down to business.

(I remember an interview after a ST game from Fin Daddy's in Sarasota where both Hal McCoy and Mark Sheldon had a bad taste about Homer, and struggled to say as little as possible). He's got a 'tude, that can be turned into something positive if handled right.

Kingspoint
05-24-2008, 02:36 PM
Volquez is a perfect example of why you DON'T give up on a young pitcher with electric stuff because of maturity issues.

They didn't give up on him.

They traded for a legitimate Triple Crown Threat with a cannon arm in Center Field.