PDA

View Full Version : Freel=Reds everyday CF*



Blitz Dorsey
05-18-2008, 03:54 PM
The asterisk refers to the fact that the Freel Dog cannot physically play every day. The Reds will need to mix in some C-Patt from time to time. But has Freel just flat-out won this job with his solid play or what. Hopefully he keeps it up -- he's headed for a career year. His highest batting average and on-base percentage in a season in which he had over 200 at-bats was .277/.375 in 2004 (career-high 505 at bats). In addition, Freel hit .271 with a .372 OBP in 2005 (369 ABs) and also hit .271 in 2006 with a OBP of .363 (454 ABs).

Freel is a consistent .275 hitter with a good on-base percentage when he gets a lot of starts. His career numbers indicates he plays better the more ABs he gets. This would conflict with the opinion some have that Freel breaks down too easy. Yes, he is going to get banged up from time to time with the hard-nosed manner in which he plays, but as long as he can avoid the major injuries, he will be fine. Freel's worst year was last year (.245/.308) when he only had 277 ABs and was hurt all season, even when he played. Again, Freel is not an everyday CF like Grady Sizemore is an everyday CF, Corey Patterson is going to need to play on occasion, but you can pretty much mark down Ryan Freel as the Reds' everyday CF IMO. He has won the job with his on-field performance.

Loved it when he put a stop to all the "quick pitching" that Cliff Lee was trying to pull. Freel stared right back at him, then got a big hit which started a two-run inning.

Falls City Beer
05-18-2008, 04:41 PM
I've quietly not given up on the guy either. I dig his hustle. Sue me.

fearofpopvol1
05-18-2008, 04:44 PM
I've quietly not given up on the guy either. I dig his hustle. Sue me.

Same here. It just seems like really good things happen offensively when he is in the game. It's one of those thing that stats don't measure, but he has a quiet impact. I dig the hustle as well and you can always count on him to give 100%, everytime.

cumberlandreds
05-18-2008, 05:08 PM
He's the hot guy right now. The Reds should ride him until he inevitably cools down.

GAC
05-18-2008, 05:18 PM
He's the hot guy right now. The Reds should ride him until he inevitably cools down.

That's about it. What are the alternatives?


BA OB% SLG% OPS
pre AS Break .282 .369 .407 .776
post AS Break .241 .331 .336 .667

cumberlandreds
05-18-2008, 05:26 PM
[quote=GAC;1634925]That's about it. What are the alternatives?


Jay Bruce?

icehole3
05-18-2008, 05:50 PM
He will play a single into a double, but for the most part I agree he's won at least a straight platoon.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Happy/HappyWave.gif

Tom Servo
05-18-2008, 06:02 PM
Just have Dusty tell him not to dive for everything and me and Freel are okay.

WMR
05-18-2008, 06:03 PM
Just have Dusty tell him not to dive for everything and me and Freel are okay.

No kidding. If he could just play within his abilities, he'd be SO much better... but then he wouldn't be Farney, would he?

Falls City Beer
05-18-2008, 06:20 PM
He's the hot guy right now. The Reds should ride him until he inevitably cools down.

Or they could platoon him because he's still one of the elite supersubs in the game.

mbgrayson
05-18-2008, 06:28 PM
He will play a single into a double.....

.....then he gets picked off second base. Then after he goes out in the field, he dives for a liner, playing their single into a double......

I think we should 'sell high' on Freel. His current line, .320/.356/.392 for an OPS of .748, will never be higher.

But Freel should never play every day, even if he could. Look at his lefty/righty splits:

vs. lefties: .362/.400/.468 for an OPS of .868.
vs. righties: .267/.306/.311 for an OPS of .617

The only reason his average is so high is that he is not playing too much vs. righties: only 45 ABs vs. 47 vs. lefties. Put him out there every day, and 75% of his ABs will be vs. righties, and that avaerage will plummet, even aside from him getting worn down or injured via his reckless play.

Patrick Bateman
05-18-2008, 06:36 PM
Or they could platoon him because he's still one of the elite supersubs in the game.

Agreed. I absolutely hate his defense in CF, but his hitting skills vs. lefites over Patterson is too big to ignore. Against righties, Patterson is close enough to Freel hitting wise for his fielding to easily trump Freel.

For the time being, a strict platoon makes tons of sense to me.

mbgrayson
05-18-2008, 06:58 PM
Agreed. I absolutely hate his defense in CF, but his hitting skills vs. lefites over Patterson is too big to ignore. Against righties, Patterson is close enough to Freel hitting wise for his fielding to easily trump Freel.

For the time being, a strict platoon makes tons of sense to me.

As long as Freel keeps hitting lefties, I agree. But last year he didn't hit lefties worth a darn.

Freel's 2007 line:
vs. lefties: .143/.172/.250 for an OPS of .422 in 112 ABs.
vs. righties: .315/.392/.412 for an OPS of .804 in 165 ABs.

Weird. Opposite of this year....What do you make of that, other than Freel's splits don't work....

Blitz Dorsey
05-18-2008, 07:13 PM
Reading some of the comments one would think Ryan Freel was a below-average defensive outfielder. Quite the contrary IMO. Yes, he will burn us on occasion with a boneheaded decision to dive for a ball 20 feet away from him which turns a single into a double, but overall he helps more than he hurts. He will track a ball down and is getting better jumps on the ball this year. He will never have great instincts as an OF but he's getting better and he has the speed and fearlessness to track anything down.

Plus, Freel's got a very strong throwing arm. The best on the team, in fact. Well, until Mr. Jay Bruce gets here. That will change everything. If Griffey is healthy (and still here) then Bruce plays CF of course and Freel goes back to a reserve role. But in the meantime, Freel has to be the everyday* guy in CF and the leadoff batter. And if Griffey gets hurt or something and that's what makes them bring Bruce up, Bruce can play RF and Freel can remain the everyday* CF (with some C-Pattery mixed in).

PuffyPig
05-18-2008, 07:19 PM
Reading some of the comments one would think Ryan Freel was a below-average defensive outfielder. Quite the contrary IMO.


I believe he is a below average CF, quite easily.


Patterson is very much better.

And Patterson hits RH pitchers much better.

A platoon is in order.

Will M
05-18-2008, 07:19 PM
Reading some of the comments one would think Ryan Freel was a below-average defensive outfielder. Quite the contrary IMO. Yes, he will burn us on occasion with a boneheaded decision to dive for a ball 20 feet away from him which turns a single into a double, but overall he helps more than he hurts. He will track a ball down and is getting better jumps on the ball this year. He will never have great instincts as an OF but he's getting better and he has the speed and fearlessness to track anything down.

Plus, Freel's got a very strong throwing arm. The best on the team, in fact. Well, until Mr. Jay Bruce gets here. That will change everything. If Griffey is healthy (and still here) then Bruce plays CF of course and Freel goes back to a reserve role. But in the meantime, Freel has to be the everyday* guy in CF and the leadoff batter. And if Griffey gets hurt or something and that's what makes them bring Bruce up, Bruce can play RF and Freel can remain the everyday* CF (with some C-Pattery mixed in).

Freel does have a nice arm. I don't think it is a cannon but he has a very quick release.

I could be wrong but I have always thought he was a better defender in RF/LF than CF. Actually a plus defender at the corners. He seems to have his adventures in CF.

Blitz Dorsey
05-18-2008, 07:20 PM
As long as Freel keeps hitting lefties, I agree. But last year he didn't hit lefties worth a darn.

Freel's 2007 line:
vs. lefties: .143/.172/.250 for an OPS of .422 in 112 ABs.
vs. righties: .315/.392/.412 for an OPS of .804 in 165 ABs.

Weird. Opposite of this year....What do you make of that, other than Freel's splits don't work....

I don't know the splits, but I think '07 was the anomaly in Freel's career. He suffered a serious injury (and many small injuries), missed most of the season and was hurt even when he played. He didn't have many ABs compared to his other years with the Reglegs. The years 2004-06 are the years I (convieniently) choose to look at when studying The Freel Dog.

Plus he brings some fire to our team which is what we need with guys like EE (who only shows fire after one of his Ks or pop outs) and Griffey always in the lineup. Freel makes things happen, gets in pitchers' heads (like Cliff Lee) and just causes all kinds of meyhem. He is getting picked off a lot this year, which is inexcusable, but that has not been a trend for his overall career. Hopefully he does something about that. Reminds me of a running back who all of a sudden starts to fumble a lot. Freel needs to make sure he is focused and never gets picked off. I can live with a caught stealing or getting thrown out trying to turn a double into a triple with one out, but you can never get picked off, or very rarely at best. Freel is well over his quota for the next decade. Ha.

Always Red
05-18-2008, 08:12 PM
I am strongly in the "Sell High" camp when it comes to Freel.

He's playing well right now- put some feelers out there and see if you can get out from under his contract, plus it creates room for Bruce without having to deal with the Griffey situation.

Freel is no long term solution for this team at any position other than super-sub.

coachw513
05-18-2008, 08:44 PM
For the love of God, get Bruce up here, platoon him with Freel, let CP be a late inning defensive replacement and get Freel some starts in left and right for Dunn and Griffey (since I don't see either going anywhere for a while)...this can't be that hard...

Caveat Emperor
05-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Or they could platoon him because he's still one of the elite supersubs in the game.

If I were managing, Griffey would never play against a LHP again.

WVRedsFan
05-18-2008, 09:02 PM
I believe he is a below average CF, quite easily.


Patterson is very much better.

And Patterson hits RH pitchers much better.

A platoon is in order.

I totally agree for now. And Freel is simply not much of an outfielder. But if he keeps hitting...(which he won't very long).

Move him at the deadline for something we can use in the future. Please.

MartyFan
05-18-2008, 09:14 PM
I've quietly not given up on the guy either. I dig his hustle. Sue me.


I love his hustle...I DO...BUt he is a danger in the field to other players...that is my only rub with him. Other than that I would love to see him playing every day.

bucksfan2
05-19-2008, 10:07 AM
I still don't like Freel in CF. I trade him now while his value is high. As good as he can be at getting on base and making things happen his out of control nature wipe his good out. Yesterday his decision on the soft line drive to center was stupid. From my vantage point he was no where near the ball and didn't really have anyone close to backing him up. He also is a danger to the LF and RF when he is the CF. As hot as he is now he will hit the wall and when he does he really is of no help to the team.

Kc61
05-19-2008, 10:15 AM
Freel fits the Reds very well right now. They need a righty hitting centerfielder. They also need versatility off the bench. He gives them both.

With the Reds playing well, I see no reason why effective players like Freel should be traded off. Fans soured on him last year, but he was injured. He has been pretty consistent the last few years.

Keep him.

Spring~Fields
05-19-2008, 10:21 AM
For the love of God, get Bruce up here, platoon him with Freel, let CP be a late inning defensive replacement and get Freel some starts in left and right for Dunn and Griffey (since I don't see either going anywhere for a while)...this can't be that hard...

That would be easy and seems like the right thing to do within the parameters that the current Reds are working.

There is one guy that indicates that he has the say, and that might be the problem.

"Janish, who drove in the winning run in the 10th inning in his debut Wednesday, certainly has caught Baker's eye.

"He had my attention in spring training," Baker said. "That's why he's here."

If "that's why he's here" is true, then it might be that Baker doesn't want Bruce here and that he prefers Patterson, Freel and Griffey over Bruce.

smith288
05-19-2008, 10:22 AM
Freel has the baseball mind of a peanut. Easily one of the dumbest players on the team when it comes to decision making in the moment.

WebScorpion
05-19-2008, 01:13 PM
I don't mind Freel playing every day, but I don't think he's an every day center fielder. His strength is his versatility...by placing him in one position, you negate that strength. He should supersub when everyone is healthy, and only stick in one position if the regular is injured. I think CF, SS, 2B, and C are premium defensive positions...IMO the regular at those positions should be a superior defender FIRST, then a hitter. Guys like Phillips, who can play both sides, are the ideal, but if you can't find a Johhny Bench to catch, you must use a defender who might hit, (Bako) rather than a hitter who might improve his defense (Saltamacchia). Team speed and defense don't slump.

Anyway, back to Freel. On a great team, he is the insurance policy...he can fill in almost anywhere and add offense while not totally embarrassing himself on defense. He can give the regulars much needed breathers and fill in during prolonged injuries. And when he's not in the lineup, he's also a nice pinch hitter to have in the wings.

Will M
05-19-2008, 02:16 PM
when he sucked everyone wanted to trade him asap. now that he is playing well everyone wants to keep him.
rival GMs usually don't want players who stink. they want players who are playing well. freel's trade value is a lot higher now than it was last offseason.

if the Reds want to win this year you do things like keeping Freel and move Jr/call up Bruce.
keeping freel because we want to win now but also keeping Jr makes little sense

smith288
05-19-2008, 02:52 PM
when he sucked everyone wanted to trade him asap. now that he is playing well everyone wants to keep him.
rival GMs usually don't want players who stink. they want players who are playing well. freel's trade value is a lot higher now than it was last offseason.

if the Reds want to win this year you do things like keeping Freel and move Jr/call up Bruce.
keeping freel because we want to win now but also keeping Jr makes little sense
Even with him playing ok now, I still cringe when he is anywhere on the field. From hitting, fielding, to carrying the rosen bag to the mound between BP and gametime.

Highlifeman21
05-19-2008, 04:14 PM
Reading some of the comments one would think Ryan Freel was a below-average defensive outfielder. Quite the contrary IMO. Yes, he will burn us on occasion with a boneheaded decision to dive for a ball 20 feet away from him which turns a single into a double, but overall he helps more than he hurts. He will track a ball down and is getting better jumps on the ball this year. He will never have great instincts as an OF but he's getting better and he has the speed and fearlessness to track anything down.

Plus, Freel's got a very strong throwing arm. The best on the team, in fact. Well, until Mr. Jay Bruce gets here. That will change everything. If Griffey is healthy (and still here) then Bruce plays CF of course and Freel goes back to a reserve role. But in the meantime, Freel has to be the everyday* guy in CF and the leadoff batter. And if Griffey gets hurt or something and that's what makes them bring Bruce up, Bruce can play RF and Freel can remain the everyday* CF (with some C-Pattery mixed in).

Calling Freel "average" defensively would be quite the compliment. Saying he's "below-average" might also kind. I'd put Freel as just North of Norris Hopper, and a few notches above KGJ, but well South of Patterson. And that's not even close.

He continues to take bad routes to balls, gets a horrible first reaction, and doesn't seem to read the ball well at all off the bat. Thankfully, he's got some ridiculous wheels to help make up for everything else. And he's not afraid to Superman dive at least once a game to attempt to make a play. I give him kudos for that. Love the effort, but not always happy with the results.

Freel and Patterson should definitely platoon, or if we could get Selig to rewrite the rules, we'd have Freel be hitting component of CF, while Patterson would patrol the field. But until that happens, let Patterson face the righties, and Freel face the lefties.

Highlifeman21
05-19-2008, 04:15 PM
Freel has the baseball mind of a peanut. Easily one of the dumbest players on the team when it comes to decision making in the moment.

Especially on the base paths.

He's a CS or a Pickoff waiting to happen.

In fact, I expect it at least once a game from him.

Far East
05-19-2008, 06:25 PM
Especially on the base paths.

He's a CS or a Pickoff waiting to happen.

In fact, I expect it at least once a game from him.
If Freel has a permanent "green light," Dusty should change it to red!