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View Full Version : Hatteberg And Catcher Could Be Dealt First...



RedLegSuperStar
05-20-2008, 10:54 AM
MLBTradeRumors.com -


Rosenthal expects the Reds to move Scott Hatteberg and a catcher before they get down to the more serious business of mullling offers for Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr.

Joseph
05-20-2008, 10:58 AM
Gee, they really went out on a limb there. :)

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Mulling offers for Griffey? Really? What the hell are they waiting on?

WMR
05-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Mulling offers for Griffey? Really? What the hell are they waiting on?

An offer?

Spring~Fields
05-20-2008, 11:02 AM
I have been frustrated that Hatteberg and the additional catcher is even on the team, when the team needed other versatile players who could be utilized and contribute instead of riding the bench while being stifled by the makeup of this team. I am kind of surprised that Jocketty being the former advisor to the ownership and now GM hadnít already observed the need for a change there and taken care of it. I guess it takes time to move players for a PTNL. Perhaps no one wants them.

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 11:03 AM
An offer?

The wording's a bit weird, I guess. It sort of implies that the offers have been made but that they haven't gotten around to mulling them over. Maybe not.

dfs
05-20-2008, 11:11 AM
The wording's a bit weird, I guess. It sort of implies that the offers have been made but that they haven't gotten around to mulling them over. Maybe not.
There is the small matter of convincing Junior that it's in his best interest (and the teams) for him to be playing elsewhere later in the summer.

Kind of tough to do that quietly during a 6 game winning streak.

WMR
05-20-2008, 11:13 AM
The wording's a bit weird, I guess. It sort of implies that the offers have been made but that they haven't gotten around to mulling them over. Maybe not.

Hehe, true. If so, I hope not. ;)

Spring~Fields
05-20-2008, 11:16 AM
The wording's a bit weird, I guess. It sort of implies that the offers have been made but that they haven't gotten around to mulling them over. Maybe not.

I think that they are going to be mulling things over until the off season.

As you know that some of these guys shouldn't have been on the team to begin with, so they really mulled that one. ;)

Unassisted
05-20-2008, 11:41 AM
Maybe the trades of Hatteberg and a catcher are intended to reel in spare parts they could throw in to make a trade of Junior possible?

Reds Fanatic
05-20-2008, 11:52 AM
An offer?That is exactly it. Fay's article Sunday said according to Walt Jocketty they have had no calls about Junior yet. I don't really think they will get calls until a lot closer to the trade deadline. There just are not many deals made until teams see where they are closer to the deadline.

BCubb2003
05-20-2008, 12:11 PM
The phone goes both ways.

MWM
05-20-2008, 12:15 PM
Who would want any of the catchers the Reds have?

Chip R
05-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Who would want any of the catchers the Reds have?


Jerry Narron.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Who would want any of the catchers the Reds have?


I'm sure the Yankees wouldn't mind having Bako right now.

flyer85
05-20-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm sure the Yankees wouldn't mind having Bako right now.or anyone not named Jose Molina

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 12:20 PM
or anyone not named Jose Molina

or Chad Moeller.

Jpup
05-20-2008, 12:24 PM
or anyone not named Jose Molina

I think the Yankees have been very pleased with Jose Molina. I would love for him to be the backup in Cincinnati. He calls an excellent game. The Yankees also brought back Moeller after DFAing him earlier in the year. He was then called back when Posada went on the DL.

dabvu2498
05-20-2008, 12:26 PM
I think the Yankees have been very pleased with Jose Molina. I would love for him to be the backup in Cincinnati. He calls an excellent game. The Yankees also brought back Moeller after DFAing him earlier in the year. He was then called back when Posada went on the DL.

Would you want to pay him $1.875M like the Yankees are?

Jpup
05-20-2008, 12:31 PM
Would you want to pay him $1.875M like the Yankees are?

That's chump change for a guy like Molina. Yes.

dabvu2498
05-20-2008, 12:34 PM
That's chump change for a guy like Molina. Yes.

Seems steep for a backup catcher with a .618 lifetime OPS.

Will M
05-20-2008, 12:41 PM
1. Hat is a spare part for the Reds. this has been discussed before

2. if the Reds trade Bako or Ross who is going to catch? Javy?:eek:
unless some young catcher is obtained then Bako/Ross is it for this year.

3. this has been discussed in several other threads but Bruce needs to be up here yesterday. Jr and cash to the Ms for an XBOX would be fine with me.

4. honestly krivsky was criticized for not being communicative with fans/media but walt doesn't seem any better. i have ZERO idea what his plan is for 2008 or beyond.

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 12:44 PM
4. honestly krivsky was criticized for not being communicative with fans/media but walt doesn't seem any better. i have ZERO idea what his plan is for 2008 or beyond.

It's been, what, 3 1/2 weeks? Not exactly prime trading season either. And I think the smoke signals coming from the front office are fairly clear--if you're old, not producing, or are a poor value, you're gone.

Will M
05-20-2008, 12:47 PM
It's been, what, 3 1/2 weeks? Not exactly prime trading season either. And I think the smoke signals coming from the front office are fairly clear--if you're old, not producing, or are a poor value, you're gone.

totally disagree.

Jr, Fogg, Belisle are still here.
A DH who can't hit and two pitchers with ERAs ~9.
Bruce is destroying AAA but hasn't been called up.

Will M
05-20-2008, 12:49 PM
it hasn't been 3&1/2 weeks. walt was on the payroll all offseason. what was he doing if not advising castellini on what should be done?

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 12:49 PM
Bruce wasn't going to be called up until May 24th or after anyway because of the super two situation.

Belisle and Fogg - It would be premature to run both of them out of town.

Griffey? Who is to say they are not working on this right now?

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 12:54 PM
totally disagree.

Jr, Fogg, Belisle are still here.
A DH who can't hit and two pitchers with ERAs ~9.
Bruce is destroying AAA but hasn't been called up.

Reds' "vaunted" farm system has no one to replace Belisle or Fogg (and last I heard, trading for a starter on May 15th's all but impossible).

Junior should be gone and Bruce should be in his place. No question there. But you should remember that the Reds owe Junior $14+ on his contract; considering Castellini's eaten close to $15 million in dogcrap contracts, I can hardly blame him in wanting to get some payroll relief (though I seriously doubt they will get much of anything in relief from his contract, as Junior keeps getting worse by the day).

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 12:55 PM
it hasn't been 3&1/2 weeks. walt was on the payroll all offseason. what was he doing if not advising castellini on what should be done?

Now wait a minute. He was not in charge in the offseason, and as such was unable to effect any moves.

Jpup
05-20-2008, 01:11 PM
It's been, what, 3 1/2 weeks? Not exactly prime trading season either. And I think the smoke signals coming from the front office are fairly clear--if you're old, not producing, or are a poor value, you're gone.

how is it fairly clear? I don't see that Jocketty has done anything yet.

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 01:21 PM
how is it fairly clear? I don't see that Jocketty has done anything yet.

The question didn't center around what he's "done," but rather Jocketty's ability to communicate his ideas to fans.

So far, he's said he values pitching and defense; it's been leaked through numerous sources that Bruce is likely on his way within the next couple of weeks; it's been leaked that the team is aggressively pursuing moving Griffey and Dunn (and others), likely at the next opportunity (read: deadline).

You're entitled to jump ship after 3 1/2 weeks, though.

Jpup
05-20-2008, 01:34 PM
The question didn't center around what he's "done," but rather Jocketty's ability to communicate his ideas to fans.

So far, he's said he values pitching and defense; it's been leaked through numerous sources that Bruce is likely on his way within the next couple of weeks; it's been leaked that the team is aggressively pursuing moving Griffey and Dunn (and others), likely at the next opportunity (read: deadline).

You're entitled to jump ship after 3 1/2 weeks, though.

I doubt we will see Jay Bruce come up unless Dusty is going to play him everyday. He might do that, but Corey Patterson is going to be paid 3 million either way.

I don't believe the leaks either. After the week Dunn has had, I don't believe he is going anywhere any time soon. The leaks are just the media hoping IMO.

Falls City Beer
05-20-2008, 01:55 PM
I doubt we will see Jay Bruce come up unless Dusty is going to play him everyday. He might do that, but Corey Patterson is going to be paid 3 million either way.

I don't believe the leaks either. After the week Dunn has had, I don't believe he is going anywhere any time soon. The leaks are just the media hoping IMO.

It's entirely possible that Dunn gets resigned, but don't act like Jocketty's the timid type, unwilling to deal big names to get the parts he needs.

AmarilloRed
05-20-2008, 02:04 PM
3 catchers is too many; I have expected one of them to be traded for some time. I would expect Valentin will draw the short straw with Bako's re-emergence. Bako might have more trade value, though. You don't need 2 left-handed hitting first baseman, so Hatteberg is expendable. A combination trade involving Hatteberg and a catcher might make the most sense for the Reds.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 02:26 PM
I agree with a post I read recently that said Andy Phillips would be a perfect RH compliment to backup Votto at 1B.

Jpup
05-20-2008, 02:40 PM
I agree with a post I read recently that said Andy Phillips would be a perfect RH compliment to backup Votto at 1B.

Votto doesn't really need a backup. He can play everyday IMO. I think Kepp can play some first when he gets back if Votto has to have a day.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 02:43 PM
Agreed, but if you have an open roster spot once Hatts departs you could fill it with Andy Phillips.

Bruce will probably be taking Valetin's spot on the 40-man as he would be the logical one to either trade or dump.

pahster
05-20-2008, 02:46 PM
I agree with a post I read recently that said Andy Phillips would be a perfect RH compliment to backup Votto at 1B.

Andy Phillips' career: .253/.294/.384

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 02:59 PM
Andy Phillips' career: .253/.294/.384

His last few years in AAA have been pretty impressive.

.957 OPS in 434 AB's in 2004
.952 OPS in 300 AB's in 2005
.876 OPS in 249 AB's in 2007
.880 OPS in 120 AB's in 2008


http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Andy-Phillips.shtml

A RH bat off the bench (in GABP) may be what the doctor ordered. If Hatteberg is let go, I see no reason Phillips can't provide RH depth and back up Votto.

Besides, fan favorite Jeff Keppinger had a career minor league OPS of .792.

You just never know.

Kc61
05-20-2008, 03:02 PM
His last few years in AAA have been pretty impressive.

.957 OPS in 434 AB's in 2004
.952 OPS in 300 AB's in 2005
.876 OPS in 249 AB's in 2007
.880 OPS in 120 AB's in 2008


http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Andy-Phillips.shtml

A RH bat off the bench (in GABP) may be what the doctor ordered. If Hatteberg is let go, I see no reason Phillips can't provide RH depth and back up Votto.

Besides, fan favorite Jeff Keppinger had a career minor league OPS of .792.

You just never know.

What the doctor ordered is Vlad Guerrero.

And Votto is a solid young first baseman, but let's not get carried away with his greatness just yet. So I agree, a righty back up would be good. Where's Conine when you need him?

As for righties off the bench, yes, but you also need at least one lefty pinch hitter against righty pitchers. Even if your starting team is heavily left handed, you need a good lefty bat off the bench in the NL.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 03:06 PM
Even if your starting team is heavily left handed, you need a good lefty bat off the bench in the NL.

Ken Griffey, Jr.

pahster
05-20-2008, 03:08 PM
His last few years in AAA have been pretty impressive.

.957 OPS in 434 AB's in 2004
.952 OPS in 300 AB's in 2005
.876 OPS in 249 AB's in 2007
.880 OPS in 120 AB's in 2008


http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Andy-Phillips.shtml

A RH bat off the bench (in GABP) may be what the doctor ordered. If Hatteberg is let go, I see no reason Phillips can't provide RH depth and back up Votto.

Besides, fan favorite Jeff Keppinger had a career minor league OPS of .792.

You just never know.


If Phillips could come close to replicating his minor league success in the majors I'd agree with you; but he hasn't. A .678 OPS is terrible, especially coming from a 1B. He's a 31 year old 1B who's career OPS+ is 76.

wheels
05-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Trade Bako right now.

He's gonna regress.

I agree that Ross and Valentin are awful, but Bako's going to be just as awful come July.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2008, 03:15 PM
If Phillips could come close to replicating his minor league success in the majors I'd agree with you; but he hasn't. A .678 OPS is terrible, especially coming from a 1B. He's a 31 year old 1B who's career OPS+ is 76.


I would almost guarantee he would improve upon .678. I don't think one could do much worse.

Then gap between that and what he's done in AAA is just too great to not think he can close it. I think he could do .773 or better, which is the the career OPS of an aging, left-handed, Scott Hatteberg.

And he can do it from the right side of the plate and for a third of the price.

Spring~Fields
05-20-2008, 04:44 PM
it hasn't been 3&1/2 weeks. walt was on the payroll all offseason. what was he doing if not advising castellini on what should be done?

Jocketty was hired on or about this time, 01/11/2008

Perhaps Jocketty still believes what he thought at the time he was hired after he had looked at the organization and now is content with riding out the hand that was dealt him since he had so much praise for it to begin with. I mean, he had already looked at the organization, and advised, felt that it was in a position to contend.

“I looked at the organization and what Wayne has been able to accomplish in just a couple of years to getting this club to a point where I think we should be in a good position to start contending and contend for a long time."

Jocketty praised Krivsky's performance with the Reds.

"I'll try to assist him and advise him the best I can," Jocketty said. "I think Wayne has done an outstanding job for the last two years with the player personnel decisions and acquisitions they've made and the hiring of [manager] Dusty Baker."

Otherwise I would really be surprised that Jocketty hasn’t addressed the Fogg, Hatteberg, and three catchers situations, and the outfield problems, then again I am really surprised that he has Patterson on his team and an outfielder playing shortstop.

I think he will have to wait until the off season to see how some of the contracts shakes out.

*BaseClogger*
05-20-2008, 04:44 PM
Andy Phillips' career: .253/.294/.384

Small Sample Alert! :rockband:

vR: 355 PA .269/.313/.428

vL: 164 PA .217/.255/.289

so much for conventional wisdom and a platoon advantage...

puca
05-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Trade Bako right now.

He's gonna regress.

I agree that Ross and Valentin are awful, but Bako's going to be just as awful come July.

Except the young pitchers need a catcher that calls a solid game. I don't trust Valentin in that respect. I do trust Bako. I'm not sure about Ross.

Volquez espeically seems real comfortable with Bako behind the plate. Don't mess with that.

Deal/dump Valentin. Go with Ross/Bako. Development of young pitchers trumps anything (real or imagined) that Valentin brings to this team.

edabbs44
05-20-2008, 04:47 PM
Trade Bako right now.

He's gonna regress.

I agree that Ross and Valentin are awful, but Bako's going to be just as awful come July.

I honestly can't see another team trading anything of value for Bako.

If Posada (or another big name catcher for a contender) is done for the year, then possibly. But not right now.

Spring~Fields
05-20-2008, 04:58 PM
I honestly can't see another team trading anything of value for Bako.



edabbs44 do you honestly see any teams trading anything of value for any of the following, that would seriously help the current Reds?

Paul Bako
David Ross
Javier Valentin
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Corey Patterson
Ryan Freel
Scott Hatteberg
Ken Griffey Jr.
Adam Dunn

Or even Encarcion

Will M
05-20-2008, 06:36 PM
Except the young pitchers need a catcher that calls a solid game. I don't trust Valentin in that respect. I do trust Bako. I'm not sure about Ross.

Volquez espeically seems real comfortable with Bako behind the plate. Don't mess with that.

Deal/dump Valentin. Go with Ross/Bako. Development of young pitchers trumps anything (real or imagined) that Valentin brings to this team.

what is the Reds plan? if it is win now then Bako/Ross are the catchers for 2008. if it is rebuild for 2009 and someone somehow offers you value for Bako then you trade him. i suspect Bako's value to the Reds ( helping the young pitchers ) this year is higher than his trade value even if the Reds go with a 2009 rebuild plan.

i agree 100% with you that the young pitchers need a veteran catcher who calls a good game, can calm them down, etc

wheels
05-20-2008, 06:40 PM
I honestly can't see another team trading anything of value for Bako.

If Posada (or another big name catcher for a contender) is done for the year, then possibly. But not right now.

You never know about that.

A team in a desperate playoff push can do silly things from time to time.

My idea of "anything of value" and yours might be two vastly divergent things, though.

Spring~Fields
05-20-2008, 07:07 PM
My idea of "anything of value" and yours might be two vastly divergent things, though.

Thatís one of the tough parts on these threads. What we think individually, what other gmís think and what our teams gm thinks are "anything of value", can be worlds apart.

Myself, I lean toward thinking that only some of the pitching, possibly Phillips and Votto can bring anything of value in return. The rest seem to have age, performance or money as a issue to me.

WMR
05-20-2008, 07:37 PM
The unfortunate thing about Hatteberg is that he has proven, both by his own words and his performance on the field, to be a simply dreadful pinch hitter. What team is going to target him as an every day player or a semi-regular platoon player at this point?

edabbs44
05-20-2008, 08:11 PM
edabbs44 do you honestly see any teams trading anything of value for any of the following, that would seriously help the current Reds?

Paul Bako
David Ross
Javier Valentin
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Corey Patterson
Ryan Freel
Scott Hatteberg
Ken Griffey Jr.
Adam Dunn

Or even Encarcion

Current Reds? No.

Future Reds? Sure. Dunn and probably Encarnacion will likely get you some players with a solid chance of contributing down the road.. The rest? Not so much.

edabbs44
05-20-2008, 08:13 PM
You never know about that.

A team in a desperate playoff push can do silly things from time to time.

My idea of "anything of value" and yours might be two vastly divergent things, though.

It's Paul Bako. If he changed his name and age and then had this start to the year, I would think that he would be a hot commodity. But it isn't like the rest of the league doesn't know who Paul Bako is or that he is most likely going to revert to his career standard.

wheels
05-20-2008, 09:22 PM
Duh.

I'm not exactly talking about a king's ransom in return.

Once again...Divergent definitions of "value".

edabbs44
05-20-2008, 09:56 PM
Duh.

I'm not exactly talking about a king's ransom in return.

Once again...Divergent definitions of "value".

Trading Bako for minor league filler likely isn't going to get this team closer to where they need to be. So if that is the case, then it shouldn't even register on Walt's "Things to Do" list for the time being.