PDA

View Full Version : Belisle Earned Run?



TOBTTReds
05-21-2008, 01:10 AM
How was the first run of the game earned? It was scored on a missed catch error at home. I now see that it says the run scored on the fielders choice, and a runner advance on the missed catch error. What did they think Ross was going to do when he caught the ball? Belisle needs some breaks, even if it is just on the stat line.

toledodan
05-21-2008, 01:13 AM
How was the first run of the game earned? It was scored on a missed catch error at home. I now see that it says the run scored on the fielders choice, and a runner advance on the missed catch error. What did they think Ross was going to do when he caught the ball? Belisle needs some breaks, even if it is just on the stat line.



i believe the hit following allowed the run to be an earned run.

TOBTTReds
05-21-2008, 08:54 AM
But no matter how many hits would have happened after that play, the runner would have been out if Ross had tagged him, meaning that run never would have happened.

redsmetz
05-21-2008, 09:26 AM
Marty was dismayed that they awarded an RBI on that play. It could well be that the play is reviewed and the official scoring is adjusted. That has happened before.

PuffyPig
05-21-2008, 10:19 AM
For some reasons, official scorers never (or at least seldom) assume that a tag out will occur.

So on this play, the batter was given an RBI, the batter reached first on the fielders choice, and the runners advanced on the error. It makes no sense to me.

There should have been 1 unearned run.

OnBaseMachine
05-21-2008, 11:01 AM
If Ross makes that play, the Dodgers most likely don't score. There would have been one out and runners on 1st and 2nd. The next batter hit a tough one hopper in front of Janish that he couldn't make a play on at first. If runners had been on first and second then he most like could have got a force at 2nd or 3rd for the second out. Hu then grounded into a FC. It was another case of the Reds defense biting them in the butt again.

On the bright side, Janish made some nice plays at SS last night. On two different occasions he made plays that Hairston would've watched sneak into center field.

Blitz Dorsey
05-21-2008, 11:20 AM
Dave Ross could be the worst catcher (outside maybe of Valentin) that I've ever seen in terms of actually catching the ball and making plays at the plate. It's like he loses focus and either muffs the ball, forgets to block the plate, or something else that would be very basic for even an average defensive MLB catcher. I am so sick of running sub-par catchers out there. I think they need to stick with Bako as much as possible. At least this is the last year of Ross' contract, although he will get a buyout since there is a team option for 2009. Oh well, let's re-sign Bako for cheap (hopefully) and find a FA RHH in the offseason (hopefully) or make a trade with the Rangers for Max Ramirez (hopefully). As some know, the Texas Rangers have about 85 top catching prospects. OK, it's four, but that's still a lot for one team. They are going to be trading at least one of them and we might as we get on that train. Give them Stubbs and Maloney. That would be a small price to pay to solve what has been a HUGE weakness for the Reds for years. Getting a good everyday catcher (and having a solid backup like Bako) would be huge for this team.

RedlegJake
05-21-2008, 11:37 AM
If Ross makes that play, the Dodgers most likely don't score. There would have been one out and runners on 1st and 2nd. The next batter hit a tough one hopper in front of Janish that he couldn't make a play on at first. If runners had been on first and second then he most like could have got a force at 2nd or 3rd for the second out. Hu then grounded into a FC. It was another case of the Reds defense biting them in the butt again.

On the bright side, Janish made some nice plays at SS last night. On two different occasions he made plays that Hairston would've watched sneak into center field.

OBM you are so right. Everything changes if Ross makes that play. I look at it like this - for all intents and purposes Belisle threw zeroes until the 7th when his inherited runner scored. That was a darn good game for Belisle.

I agree about Janish, too. He is heads and tails above Hairston defensively and as Jerry's bat falls to his career norms Paul is going to look even better in comparison since I think it's possible Janish may still be improving at the plate.

RedlegJake
05-21-2008, 11:39 AM
....let's re-sign Bako for cheap (hopefully) and find a FA RHH in the offseason (hopefully) or make a trade with the Rangers for Max Ramirez (hopefully). As some know, the Texas Rangers have about 85 top catching prospects. OK, it's four, but that's still a lot for one team. They are going to be trading at least one of them and we might as we get on that train. Give them Stubbs and Maloney. That would be a small price to pay to solve what has been a HUGE weakness for the Reds for years. Getting a good everyday catcher (and having a solid backup like Bako) would be huge for this team.

I like your idea to re-sign Bako and go get someone like Ramirez. Paul would be an excellent backup to a young receiver.

membengal
05-21-2008, 11:43 AM
Dave Ross could be the worst catcher (outside maybe of Valentin) that I've ever seen in terms of actually catching the ball and making plays at the plate. It's like he loses focus and either muffs the ball, forgets to block the plate, or something else that would be very basic for even an average defensive MLB catcher. I am so sick of running sub-par catchers out there. I think they need to stick with Bako as much as possible. At least this is the last year of Ross' contract, although he will get a buyout since there is a team option for 2009. Oh well, let's re-sign Bako for cheap (hopefully) and find a FA RHH in the offseason (hopefully) or make a trade with the Rangers for Max Ramirez (hopefully). As some know, the Texas Rangers have about 85 top catching prospects. OK, it's four, but that's still a lot for one team. They are going to be trading at least one of them and we might as we get on that train. Give them Stubbs and Maloney. That would be a small price to pay to solve what has been a HUGE weakness for the Reds for years. Getting a good everyday catcher (and having a solid backup like Bako) would be huge for this team.

LOL.

Blitz, I was just crafting a trade thread centered around him when you posted this. Yeah, count me as a +1 to your thought on Ramirez.

Blitz Dorsey
05-21-2008, 11:52 AM
LOL.

Blitz, I was just crafting a trade thread centered around him when you posted this. Yeah, count me as a +1 to your thought on Ramirez.

Great minds my friend. (Or at least that's what I'll keep telling myself.)

Rojo
05-21-2008, 02:19 PM
Here's they Yahoo rundown:

J. Kent singled to left
- J. Loney singled to right, J. Kent to third
-M. Kemp reached on fielder's choice, J. Kent scored, J. Loney to third, M. Kemp to second on catcher D. Ross' fielding error
- B. DeWitt singled to shortstop
- C. Hu grounded into fielder's choice, J. Loney out at home, M. Kemp to third, B. DeWitt to second
- C. Billingsley singled to right, M. Kemp scored, B. DeWitt to third, C. Hu to second - J. Pierre grounded into fielder's choice, B. DeWitt out at home, C. Hu to third, C. Billingsley to second
- A. Ethier grounded out to first

In a successful tag scenario, it's first and second when DeWitt comes to the plate. As OBM points out, its a slam dunk that Janish gets a force at second. However, I understand not assuming that. But even if you don't and DeWitt's "single" loads them up, its still not an earned run to my mind.

Hu's ball forced out Loney at home, which would've been, out two. Billingsley's single plates an earned run and Pierre grounds out.

Unless I'm missing something, its an unearned run.

PuffyPig
05-21-2008, 06:07 PM
Here's they Yahoo rundown:

J. Kent singled to left
- J. Loney singled to right, J. Kent to third
-M. Kemp reached on fielder's choice, J. Kent scored, J. Loney to third, M. Kemp to second on catcher D. Ross' fielding error
- B. DeWitt singled to shortstop
- C. Hu grounded into fielder's choice, J. Loney out at home, M. Kemp to third, B. DeWitt to second
- C. Billingsley singled to right, M. Kemp scored, B. DeWitt to third, C. Hu to second - J. Pierre grounded into fielder's choice, B. DeWitt out at home, C. Hu to third, C. Billingsley to second
- A. Ethier grounded out to first

In a successful tag scenario, it's first and second when DeWitt comes to the plate. As OBM points out, its a slam dunk that Janish gets a force at second. However, I understand not assuming that. But even if you don't and DeWitt's "single" loads them up, its still not an earned run to my mind.

Hu's ball forced out Loney at home, which would've been, out two. Billingsley's single plates an earned run and Pierre grounds out.

Unless I'm missing something, its an unearned run.

You are missing the fact that the official scorer did not assume that Kent was going to be out at home. In fact he assumed the opposite, and gave an RBI to the batter. In their eyes,the only difference the error made was putting the runners on 2nd and 3rd, instead of 1st and 2nd. When the infield single ensued,the bases were loaded, just like they would have been if the error hadn't occured. Remember, to the official scorer, the error just advanced two runners.

Rojo
05-21-2008, 06:46 PM
You are missing the fact that the official scorer did not assume that Kent was going to be out at home. In fact he assumed the opposite, and gave an RBI to the batter. In their eyes,the only difference the error made was putting the runners on 2nd and 3rd, instead of 1st and 2nd. When the infield single ensued,the bases were loaded, just like they would have been if the error hadn't occured. Remember, to the official scorer, the error just advanced two runners.

Ok, I only heard it on the radio but Scully made it sound like a sure out.

PuffyPig
05-21-2008, 10:06 PM
Ok, I only heard it on the radio but Scully made it sound like a sure out.

It was. I didn't say the OS got it right. Brutal call.

Hollcat
05-23-2008, 06:00 AM
I thought the "hit" given to Dewitt was also a bad scoring decision. That ball should have been an out, I don't understand how you can let a ball bounce off you, barely miss getting the runner at first and it not be an error.