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View Full Version : Dusty playing favorites with Patterson??



WVPacman
05-22-2008, 06:58 PM
I hate to bring something up like this but b/c of how bad Patterson is playing and yet Dusty keeps putting him in the lineup,it really is making me wonder.IMHO Freel has played alot better this year than Patterson,yes both hav'nt really done that much but atleast Freel brings you the energy,heart every game.Freel makes better contact when he plays and he gets on base more than Patterson.

I really think Patterson is playing more b/c he played for Dusty before.It really stinks having to watch a player like Patterson get to play everyday even if he can't hit the ball out of the infield.:thumbdown

I think Votto,also needs to sit and Hatty should be given a chance to play just so Votto,can get his head back on straight.There is no sense in making a vetern player that makes solid contact and gives you real good atbats sit.Thats another way to get Hatty's trade value up.

I also think Jr should sit for a few games b/c he is trying to hard trying to hit number 598.Sit him and let him get his head on straight so maybe he can get back to atleast making solid contact again.

Spring~Fields
05-22-2008, 09:11 PM
I hate to bring something up like this but b/c of how bad Patterson is playing and yet Dusty keeps putting him in the lineup,it really is making me wonder.IMHO Freel has played alot better this year than Patterson,yes both hav'nt really done that much but atleast Freel brings you the energy,heart every game.Freel makes better contact when he plays and he gets on base more than Patterson.

I really think Patterson is playing more b/c he played for Dusty before.It really stinks having to watch a player like Patterson get to play everyday even if he can't hit the ball out of the infield.:thumbdown

I think that you’re on to something as I cannot see a general manager picking up a third catcher with career numbers .236 .309 .324 .632, when he already had two of them, picking up an unemployed centerfielder with career numbers .257 .296 .413 .709, when he already two of those or better on hand, or a backup second baseman who occasionally fills in in the outfield with career numbers .254 .325 .361 .686 when the gm already has that quality in quantity on hand, let alone having them playing regularly. I think that Baker sold these three to the Reds and now is stuck with trying to get them to produce to support his original position on them.



I think Votto,also needs to sit and Hatty should be given a chance to play just so Votto,can get his head back on straight.There is no sense in making a vetern player that makes solid contact and gives you real good atbats sit.Thats another way to get Hatty's trade value up.

Giving Votto rest and keeping Hatteberg sharper by playing him against right handed pitchers wouldn't hurt. Though Votto needs to get the majority of the playing time.


I also think Jr should sit for a few games b/c he is trying to hard trying to hit number 598.Sit him and let him get his head on straight so maybe he can get back to atleast making solid contact again.

I think that the numbers indicate that Griffey should be getting rest against LH pitchers, be batting down in the order, and perhaps Hairston or Freel should be his late inning replacement or start in his place against left handers. His batting third is nothing but another courtesy, courtesy of Baker.
If moving Griffey was a potential problem the manager could easily check with the GM and ownership if it was a problem.

kheidg-
05-22-2008, 09:28 PM
1. Patterson needs to go. Bruce is ready and always was. If you don't want Bruce - I'd take Freel any day of the week over Patterson. Patterson is a 4th outfielder at best and should bat no higher than 6th.

2. I have no problem with Votto continuing to play. However, Hatteberg should be given at least a few more at bats if not just for the sake of getting his average up so we get something of value for him when he is traded.

3. Griffey needs to keep playing. He is the least of our worries, at least for the time being when Patterson keeps starting.

GAC
05-22-2008, 09:28 PM
Dusty has to play him.

#1 - He was instrumental in bringing him to the club to begin with.

#2 - It's not just Patterson. Look at the way Dusty constructs the entire lineup (batting order). I personally disagree with his entire approach (offensively) to the game.

#3 - Maybe, somehow, Dusty is trying to give this kid one final chance to redeem (prove) himself? That somehow he'll get it together.

kbrake
05-22-2008, 09:29 PM
I agree with you about Patterson, Dusty needs to wake up and quit giving him so much playing time. It would be one thing if we had a solid offense and could hit him 8th, I would love to have his glove but with little to no offense at C, SS, and RF its hard to play him even if he is not leading off.

As for Votto, I think he is in his first big league slump and he needs to learn to play through it. Every time he struggles you can't sit him he has to figure it out for himself.

On Junior, I don't think he is trying too hard to hit 598 I think he is just getting to the point where it will start coming together for him. Balls to the warning track the last two nights. Don't think he will ever be a 3 hitter again but Dusty won't move him so no reason to discuss it.

KronoRed
05-22-2008, 09:35 PM
Dusty has always had his guys and he's always given them more rope then other players, Patterson is one of his guys and it'll probably take a directive from the GM to get him to play Bruce if/when he comes up.

GAC
05-22-2008, 09:35 PM
3. Griffey needs to keep playing. He is the least of our worries, at least for the time being when Patterson keeps starting.

I disagree there.

In the #3 spot his SLG% is 150 pts BELOW league average. His legs are shot. There is no sound reason for Baker to be batting him #3 or anywhere near the top of the order, where he is not producing, while guys like EE , Votto, and Keppinger (when he was in there) are hitting in the bottom half.

Baker needs to see and understand that this is not the same KGJr of old highlight films. Instead, like yesterday, I hear him saying Jr just needs to string together a few hits, or he'll turn it on as the weather gets hotter. Our manager is in denial. ;)

GAC
05-22-2008, 09:38 PM
As for Votto, I think he is in his first big league slump and he needs to learn to play through it. Every time he struggles you can't sit him he has to figure it out for himself.

Exactly. He has no problem benching a Votto, yet is downright stubborn when it comes to a Patterson or even Jr whose numbers are downright deplorable.

Ravenlord
05-22-2008, 10:30 PM
...I personally disagree with his entire approach (offensively) to the game.

i think Dusty's post season debacle as Cubs manager screwed up his own beliefs on running the offense. I can remember that pretty much until the playoffs Dusty did a lot of hit and running. like ludicrous amounts of it. but we haven't really seen it all this year where it'd be appropriate, like with Keppinger or even Hairston batting. the only time i can remember Dusty trying it this year was with Patterson hitting. . .

for a guy who's supposed to be a 'throw back,' where is the the throwing back? unless the reference is to Dusty and drinking, which might account for something.

edabbs44
05-22-2008, 10:36 PM
I'm surprised that word hasn't come down from above regarding issues such as Patterson.

It isn't difficult to figure out.

LoganBuck
05-22-2008, 11:01 PM
I'm surprised that word hasn't come down from above regarding issues such as Patterson.

It isn't difficult to figure out.

I think the answer to that is easy, Castellini hired Baker, for some reason he seems to really like Baker. Baker wanted Patterson. Castellini pressured Krivsky to sign Patterson. Castellini is stuck supporting the playing of Patterson to justify the hires of Baker and Patterson.

Edskin
05-22-2008, 11:46 PM
Maybe Dusty doesn't realize Patterson is having a horrid year. After all, he hasn't really been striking out much :) (that quote from Dusty still baffles me).

redsfan4445
05-23-2008, 12:03 AM
John FAY kind of hinted on the radio tonight that he thinks Jay Bruce will be up Tuesday and that the person that could go would be Patterson..

BuckeyeRedleg
05-23-2008, 01:40 AM
John FAY kind of hinted on the radio tonight that he thinks Jay Bruce will be up Tuesday and that the person that could go would be Patterson..


It should be Javy Valentin. Then Mike Lincoln.

flyer85
05-23-2008, 01:44 AM
maybe Dusty is playing favorites but his options are rather limited. Patterson batting leadoff has been beyond absurd. Without Kepp out and Bruce in CF the Reds really don't have a leadoff hitter.

Spring~Fields
05-23-2008, 01:46 AM
Baker said in the pre game that he was playing Junior, or I mean batting him third out of respect.

AmarilloRed
05-23-2008, 02:04 AM
From Fay:


Dusty Baker said Ryan Freel will likely start the next two games as well with lefties throwing for the Padres. "Corey (Patterson) has good numbers against some of those lefties," Baker said. "But he's just not hitting or getting on base."

It may be that Dusty finally realizes Patterson is not hitting well enough to be in the starting lineup. It may be only 2 games, but this is an encouraging sign.

Stormy
05-23-2008, 02:30 AM
From Fay:



It may be that Dusty finally realizes Patterson is not hitting well enough to be in the starting lineup. It may be only 2 games, but this is an encouraging sign.

Yes, it's only taken him until 2008 to *possibly* figure out what every other observer of the game has known since 2002. ;) Getting Bruce in here next week, and Patterson out, would be the start of a turn in the right direction.

redsrule2500
05-23-2008, 06:29 AM
From Fay:



It may be that Dusty finally realizes Patterson is not hitting well enough to be in the starting lineup. It may be only 2 games, but this is an encouraging sign.

I loved seeing that Dusty quote!!!

LoganBuck
05-23-2008, 08:05 AM
From Fay:



It may be that Dusty finally realizes Patterson is not hitting well enough to be in the starting lineup. It may be only 2 games, but this is an encouraging sign.

When his lips are moving.......

mth123
05-23-2008, 08:09 AM
I disagree there.

In the #3 spot his SLG% is 150 pts BELOW league average. His legs are shot. There is no sound reason for Baker to be batting him #3 or anywhere near the top of the order, where he is not producing, while guys like EE , Votto, and Keppinger (when he was in there) are hitting in the bottom half.

Baker needs to see and understand that this is not the same KGJr of old highlight films. Instead, like yesterday, I hear him saying Jr just needs to string together a few hits, or he'll turn it on as the weather gets hotter. Our manager is in denial. ;)

I agree that Griffey should sit. I don't see how any team can take itself seriously with that play in RF. My only disagreement is that it isn't just Baker who is in denial.

If I were on the pitching staff, I'd be forming a lynch mob as a method for getting Griffey out of RF.

Rounding Third
05-23-2008, 10:33 AM
Yes, it's only taken him until 2008 to *possibly* figure out what every other observer of the game has known since 2002. ;) Getting Bruce in here next week, and Patterson out, would be the start of a turn in the right direction.

Then Bruce would be playing centerfield, so he would be leading off. The only thing that drives me move crazy than Patterson leading off is Dusty's obsession of going CF - SS in the lineup every single game.

Anyone remember why Votto was hitting 7th for way too long? It was to "keep the pressure off." Dusty needed to hit a very good hitter lower in the lineup, who has about a month in the majors experience, 7th. Yet Paul Janish, a weak hitting shortstop, in his first major league start is hitting 2nd. He blows my mind.

kheidg-
05-23-2008, 12:19 PM
There is no sound reason for Baker to be batting him #3 or anywhere near the top of the order, where he is not producing, while guys like EE , Votto, and Keppinger (when he was in there) are hitting in the bottom half.



While, I wouldn't be opposed to hitting Junior elsewhere -- I was just pointing out that he was among the least of our worries. If he stays healthy he will come around and hit around .275 with 30 HR and 100 RBI.

The two players you listed -- Votto and EE -- have actually been hitting worse than Griffey the last 2-3 weeks. If we are going to bat the hot hand #3 there is no question that Dunn should be the man batting there.

REDREAD
05-23-2008, 01:03 PM
I hate to bring something up like this but b/c of how bad Patterson is playing and yet Dusty keeps putting him in the lineup,it really is making me wonder..

Freel has shown over the years that he is MUCH more productive playing 3-4 days a week at most. As soon as he plays everyday, he wears down and his numbers drop way down. Really, there's no other option than Patterson for the days Freel needs to rest. Plus, I think Dusty wants Patterson's glove in the huge OF in SD (that's reasonable).

I think the Reds need to let Votto play every day. Sure a day or two off is no big deal, and might help. I think we can forget about Hat having any trade value. I mean, someone MIGHT give us a nonprospect for him in July, but we aren't going to get much for him.

REDREAD
05-23-2008, 01:49 PM
I think that you’re on to something as I cannot see a general manager picking up a third catcher with career numbers .236 .309 .324 .632, when he already had two of them, picking up an unemployed centerfielder with career numbers .257 .296 .413 .709, when he already two of those or better on hand, or a backup second baseman who occasionally fills in in the outfield with career numbers .254 .325 .361 .686 when the gm already has that quality in quantity on hand, let alone having them playing regularly. I think that Baker sold these three to the Reds and now is stuck with trying to get them to produce to support his original position on them.

But let's look in hindsight. I don't remember anyone complaining about Harrison being signed at the time. I'm obviously not one of Wayne's biggest defenders, but that wasn't a bad sign at all. Unfortunately, Harrison has to play some SS due to injuries, but that's not his fault.. Janish can't play every inning.

Patterson was a reclamation project. Pure and simple. Much like Phillips.. It hasn't worked out as well as hoped, but it's just a one year 3 million deal.
Not a big mistake by any means. He's not completely useless. Yes, he should not be leading off, but that's not his fault.

Bako was a great signing. When economics & cost to acquire are taken into account, it was probably Wayne's best move of the past offseason.
(Volquez and Cordero had steep acquision prices).. I don't see how anyone can complain about Bako. Even though his offense is going to come back to earth.. Given the catching options we have, Bako is an upgrade. I'd probably platoon him and Ross.

REDREAD
05-23-2008, 01:52 PM
In the #3 spot his SLG% is 150 pts BELOW league average. His legs are shot. There is no sound reason for Baker to be batting him #3 or anywhere near the top of the order, where he is not producing, while guys like EE , Votto, and Keppinger (when he was in there) are hitting in the bottom half.


The problem is that this team has no one hitting like a #3 hitter right now..
Some nights Dunn looks good, but he's generally been struggling.

I agree Dusty's lineups are not ideal, but slumps and some poor position players are a bigger problem.

flyer85
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Some nights Dunn looks good, but he's generally been struggling.a 900 OPS isn't struggling(now Jrs 720 OPS, that is struggling) . He has been on-base 10 times on the first 4 games of the road trip.

Spring~Fields
05-23-2008, 02:41 PM
But let's look in hindsight. I don't remember anyone complaining about Harrison being signed at the time.

I can't recall anyone thinking that Patterson, Hairston or Bako were upgrades to a losing team, so someone somewhere had to be complaining. I think they were considered downgrades at the time, were'nt they? Would you have them on your team, if you have a fantasy team, are they on your team?


Patterson was a reclamation project. Pure and simple. Much like Phillips.. It hasn't worked out as well as hoped, but it's just a one year 3 million deal.
Not a big mistake by any means. He's not completely useless. Yes, he should not be leading off, but that's not his fault.

So you say that he is not completely worthless. :D. I can't see the comparison between him and Phillips, Phillips was young and cheap with potential, Patterson was an unemployed ex-cub with a poor historical record.


Bako was a great signing. When economics & cost to acquire are taken into account, it was probably Wayne's best move of the past offseason.
(Volquez and Cordero had steep acquision prices).. I don't see how anyone can complain about Bako. Even though his offense is going to come back to earth.. Given the catching options we have, Bako is an upgrade. I'd probably platoon him and Ross.

Bako having some career moments at 35 does not make him a solid signing at the time, I think most are shocked with his hitting prior to his coming back to earth which they predicted on the board. I don't see the pitching as being much improved with him calling the games, ask FCB. ;)

Weren't they all unemployed late signings after Bruce and Ross's histories of injuries mysteriously showed up? ;) I recall reading that Ross and Bruce rebuffed those alleged injuries that opened the door for Patterson and Bako. Like Freel wanted to correct the record about playing time.

Spring~Fields
05-23-2008, 02:50 PM
I agree Dusty's lineups are not ideal, but slumps and some poor position players are a bigger problem.

Reads like we agree that poor position players equals poor defense, and slumps equal poor offense.

And that Dusty's lineup not being idea might be a contributing factor, which is something that the manager can do something about.

Spring~Fields
05-23-2008, 02:55 PM
The problem is that this team has no one hitting like a #3 hitter right now..


I heard Baker say on the pregame that Griffey was batting 3rd out of respect, not about winning, not about hitting, not about giving another batter protection, but out of respect.

GAC
05-23-2008, 11:04 PM
Baker said in the pre game that he was playing Junior, or I mean batting him third out of respect.

That is simply absurd baseball logic. That is not an approach or formula for winning IMO.

GAC
05-23-2008, 11:07 PM
While, I wouldn't be opposed to hitting Junior elsewhere -- I was just pointing out that he was among the least of our worries. If he stays healthy he will come around and hit around .275 with 30 HR and 100 RBI.

While I would love to see it happen, IMO, there is no way Jr comes even close to those numbers this year.

Ravenlord
05-24-2008, 12:04 AM
While, I wouldn't be opposed to hitting Junior elsewhere -- I was just pointing out that he was among the least of our worries. If he stays healthy he will come around and hit around .275 with 30 HR and 100 RBI.i think you're being overly optimistic. i said so before the year that Junior, even over a full year would do well to get to 20 homers. his dropoff after the all-star break last year is staggering.

4256 Hits
05-24-2008, 11:47 AM
That is simply absurd baseball logic. That is not an approach or formula for winning IMO.

Welcome to Dusty's world. :rolleyes:

He clearly has shown he doesn't know how to give his team the best chance to win.

KronoRed
05-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Bet he knows how to get certain players to sit and listen to his stories about Hank Aaron though :D

RedEye
05-24-2008, 01:25 PM
Patterson's attempted steal of third last night was completely awful.

Spring~Fields
05-24-2008, 01:51 PM
Welcome to Dusty's world. :rolleyes:

He clearly has shown he doesn't know how to give his team the best chance to win.

Dusty does seem to value the individual over the team, fans and putting a good product on the field.

Spring~Fields
05-24-2008, 01:53 PM
Bet he knows how to get certain players to sit and listen to his stories about Hank Aaron though :D

Do you suppose that Patterson was always the best listner clear back to Pattersons glory days in Chicago? ;)

membengal
05-24-2008, 05:50 PM
That is simply absurd baseball logic. That is not an approach or formula for winning IMO.

Understatement of the year.

Tony Cloninger
05-24-2008, 06:09 PM
Yet all the writers are clearly afraid of calling him on it.....while ESPN does not have anything to do with Cincy baseball on their radar and DB is one of their guys.

Spring~Fields
05-24-2008, 09:49 PM
That is simply absurd baseball logic. That is not an approach or formula for winning IMO.

I read somewhere that centerfielder Hairston gets the start in center tonight.

At least the guy can hit the ball lately.

RedsManRick
05-24-2008, 09:54 PM
I read somewhere that centerfielder Hairston gets the start in center tonight.

At least the guy can hit the ball lately.

Hairston and Janish at the top of the order then, no doubt.

GAC
05-25-2008, 07:46 AM
I read somewhere that centerfielder Hairston gets the start in center tonight.

At least the guy can hit the ball lately.

He can catch too! Wow!


http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200805252766389

Spring~Fields
05-25-2008, 04:14 PM
He can catch too! Wow!


http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200805252766389

Great catch

Oh well Patterson is scheduled to replace Hairtson today in CF, his daddy is back. :p:

Reds Fanatic
05-25-2008, 04:25 PM
Great catch

Oh well Patterson is scheduled to replace Hairtson today in CF, his daddy is back. :p:
And Patterson is back leading off today. :barf:

GAC
05-25-2008, 04:27 PM
Oh well Patterson is scheduled to replace Hairtson today in CF, his daddy is back. :p:

http://www.epikone.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/frustration.jpg

Spring~Fields
05-25-2008, 04:31 PM
http://www.epikone.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/frustration.jpg

How'd you know :help:

redsfan4445
05-25-2008, 09:36 PM
How ridiculous.. 0 for 8.. and continues to keep giving outs to the opposition.. hope he is released and Bruce is up here starting Tuesday night

Aronchis
05-25-2008, 09:39 PM
Much like Wilt put up a 100 sign when he scored 100 points, Patterson will put up a 0-8 sign for historical patheticness.

reds44
05-25-2008, 09:42 PM
Much like Wilt put up a 100 sign when he scored 100 points, Patterson will put up a 0-8 sign for historical patheticness.
LOL.

Oh what I would do for a photoshop of that.

Degenerate39
05-25-2008, 09:49 PM
Imagine if he goes 0-9!

cincrazy
05-25-2008, 09:56 PM
How ridiculous.. 0 for 8.. and continues to keep giving outs to the opposition.. hope he is released and Bruce is up here starting Tuesday night

Patterson could be of use to a team if used in the right situations. Unfortunately, the Reds fail to do that, so this is what you get. Patterson struggling on an every day basis and being the whipping boy of the fan base.

*BaseClogger*
05-25-2008, 10:38 PM
His defense is not this good...

LoganBuck
05-25-2008, 10:48 PM
Patterson has made 1 out of every 7.5 outs made today for the Reds.

Blitz Dorsey
05-25-2008, 10:54 PM
Patterson has the worst swing I have ever seen. He kind of "loops" his arms and the results=one of the worst hitters in MLB. I'm not a Griffey fan, but I'll be the first to say Griffey has one of the sweetest swings ever. Corey Patterson is the polar opposite. He has one of the ugliest swings ever IMO.

Talk about just bulldozing the door open for Jay Bruce. If there was any doubt, there isn't any longer (I can't imagine why there would have been any doubt in the first place... Bruce should have been up weeks ago).

LoganBuck
05-25-2008, 11:02 PM
please delete

Spring~Fields
05-25-2008, 11:08 PM
Well that certainly work out well. The scoring chances might have been increased without Patterson leading off and another at the top. The game may have never gone to the extra innings.

Patterson a solid 0 for 8 and it is not like it is anything new that Patterson doesn't produce in the leadoff spot.

Cyclone792
05-26-2008, 12:17 AM
Mr. On-Base Percentage is getting on base at a .242 clip after tonight's game.

This is our leadoff hitter, folks!

BuckeyeRedleg
05-26-2008, 12:23 AM
Mr. On-Base Percentage is getting on base at a .242 clip after tonight's game.

This is our leadoff hitter, folks!

An OBP only a Dusty could love.

LOL.

WVPacman
05-26-2008, 12:24 AM
Patterson was 0-8 and played terrible today and I garentee that he will be playing the next game.Another dumb move by Baker was him taking out our best hitter these days in Dunn.Why not take Patterson out and put Freel in on that move.Im starting to see why the Cubs fans did'nt like Baker as their manager.EE stunk up the place yet Baker kept him in there for the whole game along with Patterson.

Blitz Dorsey
05-26-2008, 12:24 AM
Batting order really doesn't matter though. So your worst hitters get more at bats than your good hitters. Big deal.

The People for Paul Janish in the Two Hole approved this message.

RedsManRick
05-26-2008, 12:26 AM
Patterson's OBP is closer to Bronson Arroyo's than Adam Dunn's. But he definitely deserves to lead off.

I've come to the conclusion that Dusty Baker likes Patterson because he sees himself. He has a skill that is inherent and he thinks is undervalued and would prefer to ignore the elephant in the room. CPatt is to OBP as Dusty is to game management. No amount of speed and defense, or clubhouse management can possibly offset the ineptitude in such a core area.

WVPacman
05-26-2008, 12:41 AM
Was I the only one that hollored at the tv"Good job Patterson you finally done something right" when he layed down the sac bunt?? lol

Cyclone792
05-26-2008, 12:43 AM
An OBP only a Dusty could love.

LOL.

Don't you know it!

I'm well beyond frustrated with it. It's kind of like a truly awful movie; it's so bad that now it's totally hilarious. The fact that Corey Patterson is even a starting regular on this club is a microcosm of the last decade plus. Absolute hideous decision-making in an organization, and it's so hideous it's gotten funny to watch.

By the way, check this out; I referenced it in a game thread the other night. Corey Patterson's on-base percentage right now is .242, and the National League average on-base percentage is .333. Relative to his league, that's a 0.727 ratio for Patterson's on-base percentage.

The following list are the worst single season on-base percentages relative to each player's league since 1900. The only qualification is a minimum of 500 plate appearances:

SEASON
MODERN (1900-)
RCAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OBA YEAR RATE PLAYER LEAGUE RCAA PA
1 Jim Levey 1933 67 .237 .352 -77 567
2 Skeeter Newsome 1936 71 .266 .374 -60 508
3 Andres Thomas 1989 71 .228 .321 -39 571
4 Fred Raymer 1905 71 .232 .326 -41 522
5 Hal Lanier 1968 72 .222 .310 -34 518
6 Bill Hallman 1901 72 .238 .331 -50 525
7 Buck Weaver 1912 72 .245 .341 -35 553
8 Skeeter Webb 1944 72 .242 .335 -37 540
9 John Gochnauer 1902 72 .247 .341 -46 506
10 Billy Hunter 1953 73 .253 .346 -57 604
11 Virgil Stallcup 1948 74 .253 .343 -46 566
12 Doc Farrell 1928 74 .263 .355 -47 533
13 Everett Scott 1923 74 .266 .360 -41 568
14 Hobe Ferris 1909 74 .232 .313 -22 583
15 Jim Levey 1931 75 .264 .354 -51 540
16 Hal Lanier 1967 75 .239 .321 -39 557
17 Todd Cruz 1982 75 .246 .328 -42 519
18 Harvey McClellan 1923 75 .270 .360 -45 613
19 Mickey Doolan 1915 75 .248 .329 -49 544
20 George McBride 1915 75 .251 .333 -27 530
21 Freddie Maguire 1931 75 .259 .344 -43 544
22 Everett Scott 1924 76 .278 .368 -42 587
23 Bobby Tolan 1973 76 .251 .332 -28 501
24 Joe DeMaestri 1954 76 .258 .341 -37 572
25 Scott Brosius 1997 76 .259 .341 -41 526
26 George Barclay 1904 76 .241 .316 -30 503
27 Mickey Doolan 1907 76 .243 .318 -27 544
28 Art Scharein 1933 76 .269 .352 -63 522
29 Herman Long 1901 77 .254 .331 -45 559
30 Leo Durocher 1937 77 .262 .342 -47 520
31 Pete Suder 1941 77 .271 .352 -47 558
32 John Ganzel 1901 77 .255 .331 -39 561
33 Boze Berger 1938 77 .284 .369 -46 523
34 Tommy Helms 1970 77 .262 .340 -48 605
35 Freddie Maguire 1929 77 .284 .368 -40 544
36 Ski Melillo 1934 77 .279 .362 -54 589
37 Cory Snyder 1989 77 .251 .326 -27 518
38 Jackie Hayes 1937 77 .282 .365 -58 631
39 Dave Kingman 1986 77 .255 .330 -19 604
40 Phil Todt 1927 77 .280 .361 -33 571
41 Tony Armas 1983 78 .254 .328 -29 613
42 Ozzie Smith 1979 78 .260 .334 -42 649
43 Bobby Lowe 1904 78 .236 .303 -26 541
44 Hunter Hill 1904 78 .236 .303 -34 554
45 Virgil Stallcup 1949 78 .268 .344 -31 589
46 Ozzie Guillen 1996 78 .273 .350 -29 528
47 Alfredo Griffin 1990 78 .258 .331 -32 502
48 Bones Ely 1900 78 .272 .348 -42 503
49 Sam Dente 1950 78 .286 .366 -55 654
50 Hughie Critz 1934 78 .269 .342 -38 614
Patterson is on pace for a top 10 worst on-base percentage relative to his league ... in the last 100+ seasons of major league baseball!

Patterson is making history in his own little way. It ought to be fun tracking it as the regular season goes on and Corey keeps racking up the outs.

AmarilloRed
05-26-2008, 12:46 AM
It make you wonder why we were willing to pay 3 million for this. Dickerson in AAA could hit better, and possibly with better defense.He has a career .357 OBP in the minors, and is at .338 this year. It will come down, but not to .242.

Highlifeman21
05-26-2008, 12:50 AM
Mr. On-Base Percentage is getting on base at a .242 clip after tonight's game.

This is our leadoff hitter, folks!

Patterson had 1 less hit than PH Bronson Arroyo during the 1 game double dip.

Patterson, 0-8

Arroyo , 1-1

flyer85
05-26-2008, 01:00 AM
he may be gone but there is no reason to expect it because he has stunk the entire month.

Corey has a 383 OPS for the month, that's right OPS. There are pitchers who would be embarassed by that.

RedsManRick
05-26-2008, 01:08 AM
Arroyo has a .350 OPS in May. Patterson is in good company. But it's cool. Arroyo is a pitcher. Patterson is a good defender. It all evens out, right?

Marc D
05-26-2008, 01:18 AM
Arroyo has a .350 OPS in May. Patterson is in good company. But it's cool. Arroyo is a pitcher. Patterson is a good defender. It all evens out, right?


I think CP should have to use Arroyo's double ear flapped helmet and pink bat untill he can out OPS Arroyo by .100.

Blitz Dorsey
05-26-2008, 01:29 AM
It make you wonder why we were willing to pay 3 million for this. Dickerson in AAA could hit better, and possibly with better defense.He has a career .357 OBP in the minors, and is at .338 this year. It will come down, but not to .242.

Krivsky was excellent at out-bidding himself for contracts. Patterson's options were...

A. Nothing

B. Sign with the Reds for $3 million

There had to be some in between. I have no doubt that Patterson/Boras (I think that's his agent) demanded $3 million, but the Reds should have done something called negotiated and got Patterson down closer to $1 million with heavy incentives. If he didn't go for that, he could be at home right now getting nothing.

Patrick Bateman
05-26-2008, 01:40 AM
Krivsky was excellent at out-bidding himself for contracts. Patterson's options were...

A. Nothing

B. Sign with the Reds for $3 million

There had to be some in between. I have no doubt that Patterson/Boras (I think that's his agent) demanded $3 million, but the Reds should have done something called negotiated and got Patterson down closer to $1 million with heavy incentives. If he didn't go for that, he could be at home right now getting nothing.

Krivsky was told by Cast that he had to get him signed (likely because Baker badly wanted him in the fold). Honestly, it didn't sound like Krivsky had a lot of leverage for himself. The blame for that one goes on Cast.

Raisor
05-26-2008, 10:15 AM
.242/.354 /.596


I'm not sure what everyone is talking about, those BA/OBP/SLG numbers look ok to me.

Wait, you mean those aren't his BA/OBP/SLG those are his OBP/SLG/OPS?

Nevermind.

GAC
05-26-2008, 11:07 AM
.242/.354 /.596


I'm not sure what everyone is talking about, those BA/OBP/SLG numbers look ok to me.

Wait, you mean those aren't his BA/OBP/SLG those are his OBP/SLG/OPS?

Nevermind.

But if you add those numbers up you get 1.165. That has to mean something good somewhere.

flyer85
05-26-2008, 11:14 AM
corey is also a good example of what can happen when someone tries to transform into something they are not. He has always been a low OBP CF with some decent pop who can steal a bunch of bases. The last couple of years he has drastically reduced his Ks and tried to become a slap hitter and has made himself completely worthless.

Chip R
05-26-2008, 11:43 AM
Was I the only one that hollored at the tv"Good job Patterson you finally done something right" when he layed down the sac bunt?? lol


I think even the Sabrmetric folk were rooting for him to lay down a sac bunt there.

Spring~Fields
05-26-2008, 12:59 PM
That is simply absurd baseball logic. That is not an approach or formula for winning IMO.

"That's why we wanted him," Baker said. "He played all over for me before. I never saw him play shortstop. But he said he could. Anyone who signed as an infielder is a shortstop. He works at it.

"When he went down to Triple-A, that's what we wanted him to do - play all over. That's hard to do. Everything looks different from one side of the field to other, different spins."

"I never saw him play shortstop. But he said he could." :)

"Anyone who signed as an infielder is a shortstop." :)

"That's why we wanted him, Baker said. He played all over for me before." :)

"that's what we wanted him to do - play all over. That's hard to do." :)

KronoRed
05-26-2008, 01:06 PM
But if you add those numbers up you get 1.165. That has to mean something good somewhere.

It means a ticket to the Mexican leagues for most.

Spring~Fields
05-26-2008, 01:10 PM
Krivsky was told by Cast that he had to get him signed (likely because Baker badly wanted him in the fold). Honestly, it didn't sound like Krivsky had a lot of leverage for himself. The blame for that one goes on Cast.

Dusty will provide you with supporting evidence if you wait a bit.

Here he is talking about Hairston, so you can probably safely extend this to Patterson also.

"That's why we wanted him," Baker said. "He played all over for me before."

What we as fans need to be concerned about now is about the future and what input or influence that Baker might render on future players coming to the Reds and our having to endure it. Bako, Patterson, Hairston, because they played for me before, perhaps, and Griffey out of respect makes me nervous as a fan when those are presented to certain reasoning for obtaining and playing.

RedlegJake
05-26-2008, 01:26 PM
corey is also a good example of what can happen when someone tries to transform into something they are not. He has always been a low OBP CF with some decent pop who can steal a bunch of bases. The last couple of years he has drastically reduced his Ks and tried to become a slap hitter and has made himself completely worthless.

Count me in the opposite camp. I think he gave up on his new approach and went back to old Corey under Dusty. Not that the different approach was much better if you look at his numbers last year in Baltimore.

boognish
05-26-2008, 01:26 PM
Dusty will provide you with supporting evidence if you wait a bit.

Here he is talking about Hairston, so you can probably safely extend this to Patterson also.

"That's why we wanted him," Baker said. "He played all over for me before."

What we as fans need to be concerned about now is about the future and what input or influence that Baker might render on future players coming to the Reds and our having to endure it. Bako, Patterson, Hairston, because they played for me before, perhaps, and Griffey out of respect makes me nervous as a fan when those are presented to certain reasoning for obtaining and playing.

So who's next? Jose Macias? Tom Goodwin? Trenidad Hubbard?

Baker can attract players to come here.

flyer85
05-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Count me in the opposite camp. I think he gave up on his new approach and went back to old Corey under Dusty. Not that the different approach was much better if you look at his numbers last year in Baltimore.His K numbers tell a different story and OPS tel another story.

in hi best season(2003) he K rate was around 1 for every 4 ABs.
in 2006, a decent seaon in Baltimore his K rate was 1 for every 5 ABs
in 2007, a poor season and big drop in power it went to 1 in every 7 ABs
in 2008, an even bigger reduction and his K rate is now 1 in every 9 ABs.

A lot of people on this board would say that Corey must be getting better because he is striking out less. Of course he isn't because he has been trading one kind of outs for another while seriously dropping in power. Corey is making a lot more contact than ever but is having much less success.