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View Full Version : Baserunning, Bunting, Situational Hitting, An Other Fundamentals



Far East
05-24-2008, 11:13 AM
Friday night's top of the 6th inning put an exclamation point on the liability that Freel and Patterson's base running bring to the Reds.

After Freel led off with a double, he got trapped off of 2nd base when Patterson's (non-pulled to the right side, BTW!) grounder was fielded by Estes. Of course Freel should have made sure that the grounder got past the pitcher before attempting to run to 3rd. Little League rule # 5 or #12 or whatever!

Later Patterson got caught trying to steal third -- making the 3rd out at 3rd base, another Little League no-no.

Perhaps the steal attempt was signaled by Spier, but either way it was against the book.

Because the Reds won, I'm afraid that the base running mistakes -- as well as the incompetent and pathetic bunting attempts by Votto, Bako, Janish, and Patterson (prompting the manager to take the bunt sign off immediately, in all four cases) -- will be forgotten.

I fear that it is an instance of a win being worse than a loss. That is, if the final score causes management to continue to ignore the lack of fundamentals and fundamental execution by this team.

The Reds might have been better off in the long run to have lost that one -- if the loss would have forced management to focus on and to try to correct just how poorly the Reds play this game.

VR
05-24-2008, 11:39 AM
Friday night's top of the 6th inning put an exclamation point on the liability that Freel and Patterson's base running bring to the Reds.

After Freel led off with a double, he got trapped off of 2nd base when Patterson's (non-pulled to the right side, BTW!) grounder was fielded by Estes. Of course Freel should have made sure that the grounder got past the pitcher before attempting to run to 3rd. Little League rule # 5 or #12 or whatever!

Later Patterson got caught trying to steal third -- making the 3rd out at 3rd base, another Little League no-no.

Perhaps the steal attempt was signaled by Spier, but either way it was against the book.

Because the Reds won, I'm afraid that the base running mistakes -- as well as the incompetent and pathetic bunting attempts by Votto, Bako, Janish, and Patterson (prompting the manager to take the bunt sign off immediately, in all four cases) -- will be forgotten.

I fear that it is an instance of a win being worse than a loss. That is, if the final score causes management to continue to ignore the lack of fundamentals and fundamental execution by this team.

The Reds might have been better off in the long run to have lost that one -- if the loss would have forced management to focus on and to try to correct just how poorly the Reds play this game.


It would be interesting to have an 'unforced error' statistic that shows how many bases teams have given away with errors, caught stealings, pick-offs, mental errors etc. It is hard to imagine this team can compete at all with all the gifts they give on a regular basis.

Throw in the lack of range from guys like Dunn, Hairston, Freel, Griffey and additional hits/ bases created....and you start realizing the Reds are not going to have any sustained success when they give up 10-15% more bases every night just based on those two elements.

OnBaseMachine
05-24-2008, 11:41 AM
Judging from Spier's comments, Patterson took off on his own. Corey Patterson is hurting this team in more than one way.

RedlegJake
05-24-2008, 11:47 AM
It's frustrating as heck for me to watch. The errors, the number of players out of position or in position with limited range, the number of low OBP give away bats in the lineup, the mental mistakes and baserunning gaffes. The only series all season where the Reds outplayed their opponents in terms of fundamental play like that was the Marlins series. It was the only series, win or lose, where I felt watching that the Reds actually outplayed their opponent. Most of the other wins seemed to be in spite of themselves, or because of strong pitching. LA for instance. I didn't feel that the Dodgers were better talent-wise or that they beat up on the Reds. Rather it was that the Reds squandered their talent with mental errors, bad play all around and beat themselves in the process. This team beats itself night in and night out with bad management, poor utilization of the talent that is on the team, and poor execution.

BCubb2003
05-24-2008, 11:51 AM
I thought it was interesting that Marty and Thom were talking about how Freel had hit in something like 19 of the last 22 games and he had definitely earned his playing time, and at that moment he got caught in a bad base-running decision. Instantly it was, this is the worst base-running team ever.

OnBaseMachine
05-24-2008, 11:53 AM
Easily the most frustrating thing for me to watch is players playing out of position. Everybody and their brothers knows Jerry Hairston Jr is not a short stop and Ryan Freel is not a third baseman, yet Hairston is at SS nearly every night despite being a butcher there. It could be argued that Hairston is the reason the Reds lost the first game of this road trip thanks to his crucial throwing error. He nearly lost another game last night when he allowed a routine groundball to roll into center field. Brandon Phillips could only shake his head and laugh at how bad Hairston is over there. As for Freel - sheesh. He fielded a routine groundball and threw it five feet wide of Votto but thankfully Joey made a great play to save Freel a two base error. I know EdE has had some throwing problems but at least he has the range to get to balls and save doubles, unlike Freel.

membengal
05-24-2008, 11:54 AM
My 6-year-old's t-ball team is more fundamentally sound on the basepaths than the Reds are.

Spring~Fields
05-24-2008, 01:53 PM
It's frustrating as heck for me to watch. The errors, the number of players out of position or in position with limited range, the number of low OBP give away bats in the lineup, the mental mistakes and baserunning gaffes. The only series all season where the Reds outplayed their opponents in terms of fundamental play like that was the Marlins series. It was the only series, win or lose, where I felt watching that the Reds actually outplayed their opponent. Most of the other wins seemed to be in spite of themselves, or because of strong pitching. LA for instance. I didn't feel that the Dodgers were better talent-wise or that they beat up on the Reds. Rather it was that the Reds squandered their talent with mental errors, bad play all around and beat themselves in the process. This team beats itself night in and night out with bad management, poor utilization of the talent that is on the team, and poor execution.

:clap::clap:

RedsManRick
05-24-2008, 02:08 PM
I was so disgusted I turned the game off. The Reds simply don't play like a professional team. My girlfriend was over and asked "why do you like them if you get so frustrated by them". I realized that if I could choose my team allegiance so easily, the Reds would be FAR down the list.

We won. Woohoo. I have little faith that we're going to make a habit of it with the current roster.