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Blitz Dorsey
05-25-2008, 04:46 PM
If I see Dave Ross drop one more ball like he's a T-baller playing the sport for the first time... well, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Probably just sit here and shake my head as usual.

A Major League catcher that consistently can't catch the ball. That is simply amazing. I'm not talking about when the ball is pitched. I'm referring to when there is a play at the plate and there is a relay throw to Ross or something to that effect. It's a 50/50 bet Ross is going to drop the ball (or just completely miss it) even when it's a good throw. I don't know if he needs laser eye surgery or if he is just really, really bad. It's become a disturbing trend.

icehole3
05-25-2008, 04:50 PM
Him and Matt Belisle make me just shake my head. Belisle is the human momentum stopper.

Chip R
05-25-2008, 04:56 PM
Ross can't catch a cold.

flyer85
05-25-2008, 05:17 PM
ross has always been unable to catch throws to the plate ... hope Jocketty gives Pena a try because the Reds trio is just awful.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2008, 06:24 PM
I was called "nuts" once for saying Ross was a subpar receiver. :cool:

Chip R
05-25-2008, 06:29 PM
I was called "nuts" once for saying Ross was a subpar receiver. :cool:


I think he's fine as a game caller and he throws out runners well but the actual catching thing, not so much.

wheels
05-25-2008, 06:29 PM
I was called "nuts" once for saying Ross was a subpar receiver. :cool:

I want names.

No one besmirches your sanity and gets away with it.

The Baumer
05-25-2008, 07:37 PM
I think on plays at the plate Ross needs to take his mask off so he can actually see the ball. I'm pretty sure other catchers do this.

Blitz Dorsey
05-25-2008, 09:58 PM
Ross is going to make a good Independent League player in a few years. I see him having a long career with the Newark Bears or St. Paul Saints. That is more his style. More of a beer league where catching, throwing, hitting and minor stuff like that is optional.

*BaseClogger*
05-25-2008, 10:01 PM
Throwing out base stealers is more important than receiving IMO...

Blitz Dorsey
05-25-2008, 10:20 PM
That used to be the one thing Ross was good at and he's even terrible at that now.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2008, 10:21 PM
Throwing out base stealers is more important than receiving IMO...

Not really. Athleticism behind the dish is the most important skill.

*BaseClogger*
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
That used to be the one thing Ross was good at and he's even terrible at that now.

Four guys have attempted a steal on him so far = definition of a small sample size...

*BaseClogger*
05-25-2008, 10:22 PM
Not really. Athleticism behind the dish is the most important skill.

Not really? Did I say it was the most important, or more important than receiving?

Always Red
05-25-2008, 10:23 PM
I think the David Ross experiment needs to end.

mbgrayson
05-25-2008, 11:00 PM
I think David Ross played a fine game today...actually it was two games. Give the guy a break. It's not like he has much playing time since he came off the DL.

He certainly isn't a great catcher, but really....

flyer85
05-25-2008, 11:06 PM
He certainly isn't a great catcher, but really....he stinks but so do the other options. The Reds catching situation is worse than abysmal.

Deepred05
05-26-2008, 03:24 AM
I think David Ross played a fine game today...actually it was two games. Give the guy a break. It's not like he has much playing time since he came off the DL.

He certainly isn't a great catcher, but really....

He did play a good game. He just missed hitting a couple of balls out too.

lollipopcurve
05-26-2008, 12:33 PM
Ross is swinging better than last year, that's for sure. Still, his defense is very overrated, in my opinion, and his throwing appears to have deteriorated (though the sample size is too small still).

I cannot wait for this team to have a good catcher.

Blitz Dorsey
05-26-2008, 06:05 PM
I love how people incorrectly assume you are referring to one or two games when discussing a player. I've seen probably every game Ross has played in his three seasons with the Reds and that is what I'm basing my opinion on, not two games in San Diego.

I agree a platoon of Ross/Bako isn't all that terrible and that's how the Reds will definitely go the rest of the year. But that doesn't mean I still can't complain about Ross from time to time. The guy is not good ;-)

*BaseClogger*
05-26-2008, 06:08 PM
I love how people incorrectly assume you are referring to one or two games when discussing a player. I've seen probably every game Ross has played in his three seasons with the Reds and that is what I'm basing my opinion on, not two games in San Diego.

I agree a platoon of Ross/Bako isn't all that terrible and that's how the Reds will definitely go the rest of the year. But that doesn't mean I still can't complain about Ross from time to time. The guy is not good ;-)

If you have watched Ross for three years, and are not judging a small sample, then would you agree that he has an excellent throwing arm?

mth123
05-26-2008, 06:11 PM
I love how people incorrectly assume you are referring to one or two games when discussing a player. I've seen probably every game Ross has played in his three seasons with the Reds and that is what I'm basing my opinion on, not two games in San Diego.

I agree a platoon of Ross/Bako isn't all that terrible and that's how the Reds will definitely go the rest of the year. But that doesn't mean I still can't complain about Ross from time to time. The guy is not good ;-)

I think it is terrible and I share your opinion of Ross. Bako is a journeyman "on the bubble" back-up and he is the only remotely major league caliber catcher in the system at this point.

Will M
05-26-2008, 06:27 PM
The Reds very much need to find a decent catcher for the future.
Bako/Ross is likely what we will have for this year.
I've seen worse ( Javy :) ) but I've seen a lot better.

RedlegJake
05-26-2008, 11:08 PM
I've argued this before. Bako/Ross make a workable platoon only because the catching is so thin around the league that comparably they aren't the worst solution out there. That is not an endorsement, though. I'd love the Reds to upgrade, as Blitz has suggested before, a trade for one of the Rangers catchers maybe. But really, its going to cost a kings ransom if the catcher they'd get is anywhere near a decent receiver and a good hitter. Seems like some positions go up and down in cycles and catching is definitely in a down cycle right now.

The_jbh
05-27-2008, 12:16 AM
i don't mind Bako... at least he does the typical thing required of a catcher...

I used to defend Ross on this board but every night I watch him I think my old HS catcher could recivee better and he didn't even play baseball in college

Blitz Dorsey
05-27-2008, 12:32 AM
I tell you, I am starting to like the Devin Mesoraco pick more and more from last year. Now we have a 25-year-old in the system like Craig Tatum who played college baseball and was a third-round pick by the Reds a few years ago. Tatum is at AA Chattanooga this year and is good defensively and has some pop. He projects as a Major League backup probably, but a solid one. If everything falls right maybe he can be a serviceable MLB starter.

Mesoraco is so far away it's tough to say, but at least he's showing serious signs of life at Dayton recently. I like that we have a 19/20-year-old kid like Mesoraco and a 25-year-old guy like Tatum to balance things out. You hope one of those guys work out; they are probably better than any catching prospects we've had since Dan Wilson. I remember Jason LaRue had one year at Chattanooga when he caught fire and had a career year offensively, but he was not considered a top prospect before that (or really after that either).

But yeah, if we could trade for one of the Rangers' catchers I say let's do it. They will probably keep Max Ramirez and trade one (or two) of the other guys. As I've suggested before, let's offer them Maloney and Stubbs. Maybe the Rangers want to go extremely young at the position and will want to trade Gerald Laird. I really don't care who it is among their top four C prospects really. And again, I'm sure it won't be Ramirez, they will want too much. But I bet Teagarden or Laird could be had for Maloney and Stubbs. Or maybe Salty, but doubtful.

Jpup
05-27-2008, 12:38 AM
I tell you, I am starting to like the Devin Mesoraco pick more and more from last year. Now we have a 25-year-old in the system like Craig Tatum who played college baseball and was a third-round pick by the Reds a few years ago. Tatum is at AA Chattanooga this year and is good defensively and has some pop. He projects as a Major League backup probably, but a solid one. If everything falls right maybe he can be a serviceable MLB starter.

Mesoraco is so far away it's tough to say, but at least he's showing serious signs of life at Dayton recently. I like that we have a 19/20-year-old kid like Mesoraco and a 25-year-old guy like Tatum to balance things out. You hope one of those guys work out; they are probably better than any catching prospects we've had since Dan Wilson. I remember Jason LaRue had one year at Chattanooga when he caught fire and had a career year offensively, but he was not considered a top prospect before that (or really after that either).

But yeah, if we could trade for one of the Rangers' catchers I say let's do it. They will probably keep Max Ramirez and trade one (or two) of the other guys. As I've suggested before, let's offer them Maloney and Stubbs. Maybe the Rangers want to go extremely young at the position and will want to trade Gerald Laird. I really don't care who it is among their top four C prospects really. And again, I'm sure it won't be Ramirez, they will want too much. But I bet Teagarden or Laird could be had for Maloney and Stubbs. Or maybe Salty, but doubtful.

I think Texas would rather trade Saltalamacchia than any of the others. With their current play, Laird isn't going anywhere.

Ron Madden
05-27-2008, 12:44 AM
Mesoraco is ok, I guess.

I just can't understand the Reds drafting him in the first round.

RedlegJake
05-27-2008, 12:50 AM
Mesoraco is ok, I guess.

I just can't understand the Reds drafting him in the first round.

Well, I agree with you on the pick, Ron, but now its water under the old bridge so I'm rooting like mad that Mesaraco makes it. Makes no sense to me to hold that against him.

Ron Madden
05-27-2008, 12:53 AM
Well, I agree with you on the pick, Ron, but now its water under the old bridge so I'm rooting like mad that Mesaraco makes it. Makes no sense to me to hold that against him.

Oh, I agree. I'll be rooting for him as well.

:)

Blitz Dorsey
05-27-2008, 02:35 AM
I remember the morning of the '07 draft I read three mock drafts -- one on Baseball America, one on Sportsline and one on ESPN -- and one of them had Mesoraco going five spots higher than the Reds took him, one had him going the pick before the Reds and one had him going a few picks after the Reds. It wasn't like it was a huge reach. The Reds got him right around where he was projected as the second-best catcher in the draft. I wasn't sitting there saying "How could they pass on Player X" like I was with Lincecum/Stubbs in '06. Of course looking back now there are players we would rather have than Mesoraco, but it wasn't a reach based on everyone's draft projections. I wasn't crazy about the pick (didn't hate it, didn't love it) and then his poor rookie season in pro ball was alarming, but it's very encouraging to see him come around at Dayton this year. He's very young and could be a good one in time. It would be like hitting the jackpot if the Reds had a good catcher they could plug in there for 10 years and not worry about a thing. But Mesoraco is 3-4 years away at least.

dfs
05-27-2008, 10:59 AM
Given that I thought Ryan Hannigan's minor league career was over several times, is it really that much of a stretch to think he could do....well, the Paul Bako job for a year or two?

WebScorpion
05-27-2008, 11:29 PM
What are the odds we take another catcher in the first round this year? Kyle Skipworth is a HS catcher who would be a backup plan for Mesoraco (or even a platoon, as Kyle is a lefty) and Buster Posey is a college catcher who might be ready before Mesoraco. Neither one of them is as good a receiver as Devin, but both can hit better. It'd be nice to be the place other people have to shop for catchers...

*BaseClogger*
05-27-2008, 11:31 PM
BTW--David Ross ain't too bad...

mth123
05-27-2008, 11:34 PM
BTW--David Ross ain't too bad...

He's not good enough to be "too bad." "Too bad" is several steps up from what David Ross is IMO.