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RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 06:50 PM
The common comment recently is that Bruce should be brought up and replace a traded KG Jr in right field. However, with Junior's ongoing struggles at the plate, I think it's increasingly likely that he finishes the season in Cincinnati.

Two questions:

1.) If both CF and RF were open (read: Junior traded), where you want Bruce to play?

2.) Assuming Junior isn't traded, do you think that it delays Bruce's arrival in Cincinnati?

I guess my position is that Bruce is currently an average to above average defensive CF -- per all scouting reports I've seen and comments of those on the board who have seen him in person. While Bruce may spend most of his career in RF once he fills out a bit more, the Reds would be dumb not to get as much quality CF time out of him now.

Yes, an OF of Dunn-Bruce-Junior is sub-par defensively -- but that's a function of Dunn & Junior. If those two are here, Bruce should be here and should be our everyday CF. A part of me seriously hopes Junior stays so that the Reds are basically forced to play Bruce in CF, see that he's good, and force our hand in to getting the most value out of him.

Thoughts?

flyer85
05-25-2008, 06:56 PM
If Jr is on the team it is moot

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2008, 06:57 PM
The common comment recently is that Bruce should be brought up and replace a traded KG Jr in right field. However, with Junior's ongoing struggles at the plate, I think it's increasingly likely that he finishes the season in Cincinnati.

Two questions:

1.) If both CF and RF were open (read: Junior traded), where you want Bruce to play?

2.) Assuming Junior isn't traded, do you think that it delays Bruce's arrival in Cincinnati?

I guess my position is that Bruce is currently an average to above average defensive CF -- per all scouting reports I've seen and comments of those on the board who have seen him in person. While Bruce may spend most of his career in RF once he fills out a bit more, the Reds would be dumb not to get as much quality CF time out of him now.

Yes, an OF of Dunn-Bruce-Junior is sub-par defensively -- but that's a function of Dunn & Junior. If those two are here, Bruce should be here and should be our everyday CF. A part of me seriously hopes Junior stays so that the Reds are basically forced to play Bruce in CF, see that he's good, and force our hand in to getting the most value out of him.

Thoughts?

Agreed. Bruce's future is in RF but he can play CF this year. Hal McCoy talked to some scouts who said Bruce can play CF better than anyone the Reds have right now, including Patterson. Get him up here tomorrow.

RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 06:58 PM
So you think they will keep Bruce in the minors all season if they don't trade Junior, flyer?

I simply cannot see them justifying it while claiming they are trying to win. I can see Bruce's arrival delayed until the ASB or so. But no way does he stay in AAA and only get a cup of coffee at best when he's absolutely destroying the league and we've got next to no production out of our CFs.

Degenerate39
05-25-2008, 06:59 PM
If he were called up tomorrow I would stick him in Centerfield. They most likely won't be able to trade Junior this year. Use him as a Centerfielder this year and next year when Griff is gone put him in Rightfield.

reds44
05-25-2008, 07:02 PM
With all things being equal, I would rather have him in RF then CF. However I have no problem with calling him up tomorrow and sticking him in CF until Griffey is gone.

flyer85
05-25-2008, 07:03 PM
So you think they will keep Bruce in the minors all season if they don't trade Junior, flyer?

my point was that as long as Jr is on the team his only position is CF

flyer85
05-25-2008, 07:04 PM
certainly brining him up and putting Bruce and Dunn back to back in the lineup would a huge improvement. I am also one who thinks Patterson's defense is overrated and his offense, well ...

RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 07:05 PM
my point was that as long as Jr is on the team his only position is CF

Agreed. So what do you think about the hypothetical of Junior being gone. Would you rather see him in RF or CF?

(mods, if it's possible to make this a poll, that'd be great...)

reds44
05-25-2008, 07:06 PM
certainly brining him up and putting Bruce and Dunn back to back in the lineup would a huge improvement. I am also one who thinks Patterson's defense is overrated and his offense, well ...
I think Dusty made it pretty clear in spring training that when Bruce comes off he is hitting leadoff. I guess it's possible that Hairston could have made him change his mind on that.

reds44
05-25-2008, 07:06 PM
Agreed. So what do you think about the hypothetical of Junior being gone. Would you rather see him in RF or CF?

(mods, if it's possible to make this a poll, that'd be great...)
Right Field.

flyer85
05-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Agreed. So what do you think about the hypothetical of Junior being gone. Would you rather see him in RF or CF?

(mods, if it's possible to make this a poll, that'd be great...)RF ... unless they get a RF in return for Jr

Scrap Irony
05-25-2008, 07:52 PM
I'm in the minority here, but I'd love to see Bruce play CF as long as he's at least average defensively. A RF is easier to find than a true plus CF. Sign a serviceable right fielder with a plus glove, a la Hammonds, Guillien, and the hosts of other on-the-cheap RFs that paraded around Cincinnati OFs in the late 90's and early aughts. If, in a couple years, Stubbs pans out or Valaika learns to be a solid CF, put Bruce in right. If, OTOH, Frazier is the real deal or Dorn catches fire, Bruce could continue to be a plus CF simply because of his special bat.

Stormy
05-25-2008, 07:52 PM
Get him here to replace Patterson (the worst regular OF at any position in the game of baseball) immediately. I can understand the rationale behind signing Patterson if Bruce wasn't deemed ready, to play between the completely stationary Griffey and Dunn, and if it was written in stone that he batted 8th and purely platooned. However, our manager is the worst offensive tactician in the game, and refuses to use him properly.

All things being equal, I play Bruce ideally in RF. However, all things aren't equal, and I have no problem playing him in CF now, until Griffey is moved. Then we can target a legit CF this offseason, after seeing how Bruce's tryout in CF goes (best of both worlds). Patterson has already cost this team more than his glove could ever atone for.

guttle11
05-25-2008, 07:54 PM
Now? Doesn't matter. It's time for him to face major league pitchers.

Next year? Right.

RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 07:59 PM
For those of you who would put Bruce in RF even if he can play an average to above average CF, can you explain why? I just don't understand the point of getting less value out of a guy.

Also, for those who have seen Bruce play CF, how does he compare defensively to our other CF options?

sonny
05-25-2008, 07:59 PM
I would play him in CF until Jr is gone. Just call him up already.

guttle11
05-25-2008, 08:01 PM
For those of you who would put Bruce in RF even if he can play an average to above average CF, can you explain why?

Because he could be a well above average RF. Between Dickerson, Freel, and maybe Stubbs down the road (or a FA signing), you can find someone that can play CF capably. Being in right lessens the load on his shoulders, and more importantly for the future, legs. Jay Bruce is not a small man. As he ages, he's going to bet bigger and wider. It's nature. RF is the ideal spot for him.

sonny
05-25-2008, 08:05 PM
Because he could be a well above average RF. Between Dickerson, Freel, and maybe Stubbs down the road (or a FA signing), you can find someone that can play CF capably. Being in right lessens the load on his shoulders, and more importantly for the future, legs. Jay Bruce is not a small man. As he ages, he's going to bet bigger and wider. It's nature. RF is the ideal spot for him.

But for the time being, he's clearly the best option we have to play CF. A half season in center won't kill him.

RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Because he could be a well above average RF. Between Dickerson, Freel, and maybe Stubbs down the road (or a FA signing), you can find someone that can play CF capably. Being in right lessens the load on his shoulders, and more importantly for the future, legs. Jay Bruce is not a small man. As he ages, he's going to bet bigger and wider. It's nature. RF is the ideal spot for him.

So why put him in RF now? That's what I don't get -- yes, as he gets bigger, he'll likely need to move over. But let's cross that bridge when it comes.

Do you think playing CF will make his bat worse?

Scrap Irony
05-25-2008, 08:10 PM
He plays CF capably. He'll be league average or a bit below. He's not overly fast and somtimes he takes odd routes, but his arm is an absolute cannon and he get a decent jump on the ball most of the time. He's not great at the small things (he overthrows the cut-off man regularly and doesn't get in a good position to throw at all times), but his athleticism (and that arm) negate that.

If Cincinnati were a system good at the little things, I'd think he'd be just over league average. They're not, so he's not.

KronoRed
05-25-2008, 08:11 PM
CF, get Patterson out of here.

guttle11
05-25-2008, 08:13 PM
But for the time being, he's clearly the best option we have to play CF. A half season in center won't kill him.

Oh, I agree to a point. I'd rather him be in right, but he needs to be here.

And I'm not sure he's the best answer in center. I think that's Freel, with Bruce in right. But this is the Reds, and they won't just remove Jr to the bench.

sonny
05-25-2008, 08:18 PM
Oh, I agree to a point. I'd rather him be in right, but he needs to be here.

And I'm not sure he's the best answer in center. I think that's Freel, with Bruce in right. But this is the Reds, and they won't just remove Jr to the bench.

I thought you we're suggesting Jay stay down until Jr was moved.

...what a hilarious misunderstanding.:)

RedsManRick
05-25-2008, 08:35 PM
Is Freel a better CF than Bruce? Or are we just assuming that since he's fast and smaller?

Scrap Irony
05-25-2008, 08:40 PM
Six of one, half a dozen of the other, really. But, oddly, Farney is superior to both.

jojo
05-25-2008, 09:22 PM
"Oh, put me in, coach - Iím ready to play today;
Put me in, coach - Iím ready to play today;
Look at me, I can be centerfield." -John Fogerty

mth123
05-25-2008, 10:45 PM
I like him in RF because I don't want to see Griffey out there anymore. Bruce in RF with a plus defender in CF allows the team to keep Dunn in LF much more easily.

I also agree with Guttle (and FCB earlier in the year) that I don't want Bruce's legs worn down by running between Dunn and JR all the time.

Cyclone792
05-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Is Freel a better CF than Bruce? Or are we just assuming that since he's fast and smaller?

It's mere assumptions, and that's it. You should have actually started a poll with answer options including "I have (or haven't) ever seen Jay Bruce play the outfield in person." The vast majority of people wanting to send him to right field merely say so because of a scouting report from the 2005 draft suggesting he may have to move to right field.

Bruce is perfectly fine in center field, and he does have great outfield instincts. Great jumps, pretty good routes, and a cannon for an arm. The guy is just a complete athlete out there. And don't forget, while he may not appear fast, he's actually got decent wheels. You get a 6' 3" frame running and the stride will chew up some ground even though it doesn't appear quick.

By comparison, Freel's outfield instincts are rather lousy.

GAC
05-26-2008, 11:10 AM
certainly brining him up and putting Bruce and Dunn back to back in the lineup would a huge improvement.

Not if Baker is going to bat them 6th and 7th! :lol:

RedlegJake
05-26-2008, 12:30 PM
I voted CF simply because he can play CF just fine for the time being. RF is his optimum position in the future but right now I think he can play either very well.

KronoRed
05-26-2008, 01:01 PM
Not if Baker is going to bat them 6th and 7th! :lol:

Try 7th and 8th, the top of the lineup is reserved for out makers :D

BuckeyeRedleg
05-26-2008, 01:32 PM
Right now, Bruce and Cody Strait/Drew Stubbs/Chis Dickerson would be better than Patterson and Junior (offensively and, of course, defensively).

Matt700wlw
05-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Doesn't matter....get him here.

AmarilloRed
05-26-2008, 01:41 PM
CF. He has mostly played CF in the minors, and I think he would do a good job there.

flyer85
05-26-2008, 01:42 PM
if Bruce comes up to play CF Dusty's head might explode

RedsBaron
05-26-2008, 01:50 PM
if Bruce comes up to play CF Dusty's head might explode

All the more reason to do it then. The Reds should hold a "watch Dusty's head explode" night. It would boost attendance.

Matt700wlw
05-26-2008, 02:17 PM
They could give out Dusty pinatas

nate
05-26-2008, 02:25 PM
I'm sure I said it before but I'm leary of him playing CF between Dunn. and Jr. Those two (especially Jr.) have limited and range and Bruce may feel it necessary to "Freel" himself in order to get to balls.

I'd actually feel better with an OF of Dunn, Freel/Patterson, Bruce.

Joseph
05-26-2008, 03:06 PM
Anywhere in Cincinnati is fine with me.

mth123
05-26-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm sure I said it before but I'm leary of him playing CF between Dunn. and Jr. Those two (especially Jr.) have limited and range and Bruce may feel it necessary to "Freel" himself in order to get to balls.

I'd actually feel better with an OF of Dunn, Freel/Patterson, Bruce.

I feel the same way. FWIW, I think he is capable of playing a fine CF. He's needed more in RF.

Caveat Emperor
05-26-2008, 06:30 PM
Jay Bruce should be the starting CF until the Reds move Griffey.

Once that happens, Bruce should move to RF and the Reds should find themselves a plus-defending CF to compensate for Dunn's lack of range in LF.

With plus defense in CF and RF, it'll make Dunn's fault's much less noticeable in left.

mth123
05-26-2008, 06:33 PM
Jay Bruce should be the starting CF until the Reds move Griffey.

Once that happens, Bruce should move to RF and the Reds should find themselves a plus-defending CF to compensate for Dunn's lack of range in LF.

With plus defense in CF and RF, it'll make Dunn's fault's much less noticeable in left.

Yep. Just move Griffey now. To the bench if no one wants him.

Degenerate39
05-26-2008, 07:23 PM
Just let the man play every single position tomorrow and declare it Jay Bruce Night.

WebScorpion
05-27-2008, 12:01 PM
With no other data besides 'both positions are open', I'd take Right Field because he is an above average defender in right and an average defender in center. Playing Jay Bruce in Right Field maximizes his value. Of course, in the real world other players play the other 2 positions in his absence, so that must be considered. If Jay plays right field, you lose your current right fielder, Griffey, from the lineup. If he plays center field, you lose your current center fielder, Patterson, from the lineup. Offensively, the best outfield we can field would be Dunn, Bruce, Griffey, but defensively, it is Dunn, Patterson, Bruce. I have no idea what Dusty would do...he might play Griffey, Patterson, Bruce as he seems to prefer removing Dunn in the later innings when given a choice. Also, it remains to be seen if Jocketty will give him a choice...if he dumps Patterson when calling up Bruce, he doesn't leave Dusty with much of a choice. I guess we'll have to wait and see....

KronoRed
05-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Just let the man play every single position tomorrow and declare it Jay Bruce Night.

He should take the field alone, pitch and then run in to catch the ball off the bat.

Always Red
05-27-2008, 04:14 PM
He should take the field alone, pitch and then run in to catch the ball off the bat.

Come on, you know that only Chris Denorfia is capable of that feat...;)

KronoRed
05-27-2008, 05:56 PM
Come on, you know that only Chris Denorfia is capable of that feat...;)

You know the real reason Deno had to be traded last year? because he and Bruce couldn't both be in AAA, the space time continuum would have imploded.

Reds1
05-27-2008, 06:51 PM
I say RF, but Griffey is here and he should be in CF over him.

RedsManRick
05-27-2008, 07:25 PM
You know the real reason Deno had to be traded last year? because he and Bruce couldn't both be in AAA, the space time continuum would have imploded.

There can only be one.

membengal
05-27-2008, 09:50 PM
I vote he play cf AND rf. Right-center, say. I bet he still gets to more balls than having him in CF and Jr. in rf.

GAC
05-27-2008, 10:12 PM
If both positions were open.... RF