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View Full Version : Who gets cut or moved to make room for Bruce?



gobucks106
05-27-2008, 09:26 AM
As much as I want to say Corey Patterson I'm afraid he'll still be here tonight. He can play a decent centerfield and has speed. My guess is Scott Hatteburg is the odd man out. He's essentialy useless on this roster. To bad we are going to just DFA this guy when we could have traded him after spring training for at least a warm body!

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 09:44 AM
Be afraid, be very afraid.

However, if CFP DOES get released, I will give Jocketty and Cast HUGE props, since that guy is Dusty's boy, and from what I've seen thus far, Dusty gets what Dusty wants - bad players, bad lineups, bad wristbands, etc... he also had Stanton cut, Bruce sent down, and Bray sent down.

Believe me, it would be a sign that the FO can actually corral this guy, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

SarasotaFan
05-27-2008, 09:48 AM
It won't be Hatteburg. It will be Patterson or could possibly be McBeth for the 40-man spot (he hasn't pitched in the last 3 days for the Bats and could possibly already be clearing waivers)

As for the 25 man roster, my guess is Patterson, unless they have already packaged up Freel for a trade for a minor league pitcher.

CySeymour
05-27-2008, 10:25 AM
It won't be Hatteburg. It will be Patterson or could possibly be McBeth for the 40-man spot (he hasn't pitched in the last 3 days for the Bats and could possibly already be clearing waivers)

As for the 25 man roster, my guess is Patterson, unless they have already packaged up Freel for a trade for a minor league pitcher.

Unfortunately, I think it will be Hatte. Yeah, Patterson has been useless, too, but at least he can help you in other ways besides hitting, i.e. defensive substitution and pinch running. Hatte can only hit, and he hasn't been doing that.

SarasotaFan
05-27-2008, 10:31 AM
Unfortunately, I think it will be Hatte. Yeah, Patterson has been useless, too, but at least he can help you in other ways besides hitting, i.e. defensive substitution and pinch running. Hatte can only hit, and he hasn't been doing that.
So can Jerry Hairston and Ryan Freel

I'd rather have Hatte as a lefty off the bench than Patterson.

Ghosts of 1990
05-27-2008, 10:48 AM
I gain faith in Jock if Patterson is let go. I lose a lot of faith if he's kept. Jocketty needs to show Dusty his job isn't to pick personnel. I personally am thinking about having a word with Baker before a game about his decision to hamstring us with Patterson.

cjs07484
05-27-2008, 10:55 AM
Ship Javier out of here. He serves no purpose on this team and they don't play him anyway. I'd much rather have Hatteberg spell Votto at first.

mlbfan30
05-27-2008, 11:06 AM
It's Scott Hatteberg

This sure is a great organization, isn't it?

muethibp
05-27-2008, 11:26 AM
It's Scott Hatteberg

This sure is a great organization, isn't it?

Are you speculating or reporting news?

SarasotaFan
05-27-2008, 11:29 AM
Are you speculating or reporting news?

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080527/SPT04/805270312/

probably could be Hatte - time for him to retire anyways. he's had a good run

captainmorgan07
05-27-2008, 11:40 AM
I'd say Hatteberg would be the most likely choice. He has the most value to other teams even if he is designated for assignment we have 10 days to try to deal him. He's only used as a pinch hitter off the bench and he isn't performing well in that role. If we need a lefty pinch hitter Javy has performed very well in that role over the last few years. I wouldn't cut Patterson just yet. As stated on this forum he is our best defensive outfielder of all the guys we've got. Covers alot of ground in centerfield and can come in for defensive purposes last in games. He can pinch run and is a good bunter.

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 11:53 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080527/SPT04/805270312/

probably could be Hatte - time for him to retire anyways. he's had a good run


John Fay has about as much inside information as my dog does - and he is stuffed.

COULD BE Hatte, but no shocking revelation there. The smart move would be CWP, since he brings absolutely nothing - we don't need two pinch runners on the bench making upwards of $3.5M. Javy or Hatte could garner something in trade, but I don't risk it by DFA-ing them.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

OesterPoster
05-27-2008, 12:00 PM
John Fay has about as much inside information as my dog does - and he is stuffed.

COULD BE Hatte, but no shocking revelation there. The smart move would be CWP, since he brings absolutely nothing - we don't need two pinch runners on the bench making upwards of $3.5M. Javy or Hatte could garner something in trade, but I don't risk it by DFA-ing them.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


Let me get this straight. You know for certain that they haven't been trying to trade Hatte? :rolleyes:

CWRed
05-27-2008, 12:13 PM
If it's Hatte and they keep CP and Javy, I will puke blood. Bring up an outfielder and DFA a 1st baseman who can hit? Javy has no business playing...ever. 3 catchers? Stupid.

ChatterRed
05-27-2008, 12:18 PM
I know for certain we could get something in a trade for Patterson. Don't we need some additional bats or baseballs or even water bottles? ;)

zakthemack
05-27-2008, 12:21 PM
I don't think you can afford to get rid of any infielders at the moment. Having 3 catchers though, is something that will need to be sorted out at some point. Why not now?

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 12:28 PM
If it's Hatte and they keep CP and Javy, I will puke blood. Bring up an outfielder and DFA a 1st baseman who can hit? Javy has no business playing...ever. 3 catchers? Stupid.

Well, given the horrid makeup of this 25 man roster - pretty much the entier season - this is like picking which bullet to shoot yourself with.

1 - $1.85M worth of veteran 1B-man who hits from the same side as your ROY candidate, who has been relegated to pinch-hitting duty, which he's horrible at. Meanwhile Andy Phillips is hitting lefties to the tune of .400 in AAA.

2 - $1.3M worth of 3rd catcher who switch-hits, can't hit lefties, but can also fill in at 1B (as your 3rd 1b-man who can only hit righties), who is relegated to pinch-hitting duties as well.

3 - $3.5M worth of CF, who could pinch-RUN, and maybe be a late-inning defensive replacement in the OF. Hits .200 and OBP's .250 otherwise.

Don't know how the contracts are written, but possibly CWP's isn't guaranteed since it started out as a minor-league deal - similar to the rumors/reports on Josh Foggs. Maybe not, but I'm guessing the other two guys' contracts ARE guaranteed.

You think this is fun? Wait until Keppinger AND Gonzalez are both ready to come back from the DL, possibly at/near the same time...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

ChatterRed
05-27-2008, 12:56 PM
You forgot one other bad contract:

Dusty Baker $3 million per year for 3 years. Argh.

Natty Redlocks
05-27-2008, 01:00 PM
Well, given the horrid makeup of this 25 man roster - pretty much the entier season - this is like picking which bullet to shoot yourself with.

1 - $1.85M worth of veteran 1B-man who hits from the same side as your ROY candidate, who has been relegated to pinch-hitting duty, which he's horrible at. Meanwhile Andy Phillips is hitting lefties to the tune of .400 in AAA.

2 - $1.3M worth of 3rd catcher who switch-hits, can't hit lefties, but can also fill in at 1B (as your 3rd 1b-man who can only hit righties), who is relegated to pinch-hitting duties as well.

3 - $3.5M worth of CF, who could pinch-RUN, and maybe be a late-inning defensive replacement in the OF. Hits .200 and OBP's .250 otherwise.

Don't know how the contracts are written, but possibly CWP's isn't guaranteed since it started out as a minor-league deal - similar to the rumors/reports on Josh Foggs. Maybe not, but I'm guessing the other two guys' contracts ARE guaranteed.

You think this is fun? Wait until Keppinger AND Gonzalez are both ready to come back from the DL, possibly at/near the same time...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I like that. I was about to say that giving Dusty Baker a lineup card and Corey Patterson is like giving a teenaged boy a case of beer and a loaded gun.

durl
05-27-2008, 01:31 PM
I can't help but think that Patterson will be moved. Nice glove, horrible bat. And this team needs bats. Hopefully his contract isn't guaranteed.

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 01:38 PM
If it is Hatte, I for one, will be PO'd. We should have traded this guy in the beginning of the season. Just because Votto had a bad spring is no reason to carry TWO left handed hitting first basemen.

It's not only a disservice to the Reds Organization, it's a disservice to Hatte himself, who has been nothing short of a perfect professional since he's been a Red.

We definitely could have gotten something for him in a trade before the year started. Now we won't get anything. BRILLIANT!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

NastyBoy
05-27-2008, 01:42 PM
Josh Fogg... seems a likely choice.

muethibp
05-27-2008, 01:48 PM
Well, given the horrid makeup of this 25 man roster - pretty much the entier season - this is like picking which bullet to shoot yourself with.

1 - $1.85M worth of veteran 1B-man who hits from the same side as your ROY candidate, who has been relegated to pinch-hitting duty, which he's horrible at. Meanwhile Andy Phillips is hitting lefties to the tune of .400 in AAA.

2 - $1.3M worth of 3rd catcher who switch-hits, can't hit lefties, but can also fill in at 1B (as your 3rd 1b-man who can only hit righties), who is relegated to pinch-hitting duties as well.

3 - $3.5M worth of CF, who could pinch-RUN, and maybe be a late-inning defensive replacement in the OF. Hits .200 and OBP's .250 otherwise.

Don't know how the contracts are written, but possibly CWP's isn't guaranteed since it started out as a minor-league deal - similar to the rumors/reports on Josh Foggs. Maybe not, but I'm guessing the other two guys' contracts ARE guaranteed.

You think this is fun? Wait until Keppinger AND Gonzalez are both ready to come back from the DL, possibly at/near the same time...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

All major league contracts are fully guaranteed. People need to forget about someone's salary is in trying to decide who should be cut. We will owe SH, CP, JV and the rest of the team the same amount of money whether they play every game the rest of the season or are cut today (absent performance bonuses). The only salary issue in adding Bruce is his prorated minimum salary, so not much. The real crime was ever taking Patterson north and triggering his major league salary.

Cut whoever sucks the most, regardless of salary, and move on.

757690
05-27-2008, 02:04 PM
Hatteberg makes the most sense, since he can only do two things, pinch hit and play first, neither of which he does very well. It is not his fault, he just has no place on this team.

However much anger there is towards Patterson, he is needed since he is the only decent defensive outfielder on the club, and he can play all three spots. If limited to pinch hitting and spot starts, he probably should provide decent offensive numbers. Also is insurance in case Bruce falters, or anyone else gets injured.

Not a big fan of Javy, but at least he can pinch hit against righties.

Now the big question, is how will this board re-act if the Dunn is traded to make room for Bruce? Doubt it will happen, but it could. Of course, if it does, a lot will depend on the return.

757690
05-27-2008, 02:06 PM
It's official. Hatteberg DFA'd.

OldRed1966
05-27-2008, 02:15 PM
It's official. Hatteberg DFA'd.

Do you have a link?

757690
05-27-2008, 02:20 PM
It's from MattWLW on the org. He always hears first. They now have thread on it titled, "Hatte Gone"

muethibp
05-27-2008, 02:21 PM
It's on Fay's blog.
http://beta.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3aed6f3d92-e181-4a6e-b252-90c601276e8d&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

BLEEDS
05-27-2008, 02:27 PM
BAH!!!

Let me guess - NEXT they're going to try to tell us we don't need 3 Catchers!!

Oh well. There's always Keppinger/AGon/Hopper to deal with, eventually we might get rid of all the High Priced Fodder...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

RiSK
05-27-2008, 02:34 PM
Man, called this yesterday. Really, it's too bad, but he wanted to go. Basically, he wanted to be played, or go somewhere where he would be played. Absolutely no surprise here.

dsmith421
05-27-2008, 03:25 PM
Hatteberg was always going to be in a tough spot this year as far as playing time went. Reds probably hoped he'd play well enough in relief of Votto that he would build some trade value. Didn't happen, and that's too bad.

It's always nice to have a solid veteran presence in the clubhouse and as a bench bat, however, and given that Valentin effectively gives this club nothing, you have to wonder if Hatteberg's wish to play elsewhere was the driving force behind the move.

Hey Meat
05-27-2008, 03:46 PM
I still can't believe that it is not Dusty Baker Junior, I mean Corey Patterson. Horrible. Dusty must go now.

Redus
05-27-2008, 03:50 PM
Now comes the next question. Where can we trade Hatte and what can we get? AA player?

goreds2
05-27-2008, 04:27 PM
Now comes the next question. Where can we trade Hatte and what can we get? AA player?


Either a pitching or a RIGHT HANDED hitting prospect would be alright with me.

ChatterRed
05-27-2008, 04:48 PM
Someone will want Hatte. He's a solid player.

dsmith421
05-27-2008, 04:51 PM
I still can't believe that it is not Dusty Baker Junior, I mean Corey Patterson. Horrible. Dusty must go now.

Patterson is an atrocious mess of a hitter, but he's an excellent centerfielder and provides value as a late-inning defensive replacement and/or pinch runner. If the Reds had brought him in for the minimum and restricted his usage to that role, I doubt his presence would be such a problem. At $3.5M and with his Svengali as manager, it's a serious problem.

I sincerely hope Bruce comes with a stern directive from Jocketty that Patterson is not to take his at-bats. With this franchise, though, you never know.

Blue
05-27-2008, 05:06 PM
Patterson is an atrocious mess of a hitter, but he's an excellent centerfielder and provides value as a late-inning defensive replacement and/or pinch runner. If the Reds had brought him in for the minimum and restricted his usage to that role, I doubt his presence would be such a problem. At $3.5M and with his Svengali as manager, it's a serious problem.

I sincerely hope Bruce comes with a stern directive from Jocketty that Patterson is not to take his at-bats. With this franchise, though, you never know.

I think this team has had quite enough of those. I was hoping to never see Corey Patterson again. The fact that he will have even one more at-bat is infuriating. Dudepick will still start him way too often (at least once).

Kingspoint
05-27-2008, 05:33 PM
Hatteberg was always going to be in a tough spot this year as far as playing time went. Reds probably hoped he'd play well enough in relief of Votto that he would build some trade value. Didn't happen, and that's too bad.

It's always nice to have a solid veteran presence in the clubhouse and as a bench bat, however, and given that Valentin effectively gives this club nothing, you have to wonder if Hatteberg's wish to play elsewhere was the driving force behind the move.

G.M.'s don't look at what a veteran has done in a small sample of 40 or so at-bats. They look at what he's done over his career. Just like Krivsky was able to get a decent player last August for Conine, he would have been able to get equal value for Hatteberg regardless of how he's doing this year.

Jockety is going to put in half of the effort that Krivsky put into this team. This example of how this has been handled is going to be typical of what to expect from Jockety instead of what we would have gotten with Krivsky.

Expect Jockety to get nothing for Hatteberg, not because of Hatteberg, but because of Jockety.

Lockdwn11
05-27-2008, 06:12 PM
G.M.'s don't look at what a veteran has done in a small sample of 40 or so at-bats. They look at what he's done over his career. Just like Krivsky was able to get a decent player last August for Conine, he would have been able to get equal value for Hatteberg regardless of how he's doing this year.

Jockety is going to put in half of the effort that Krivsky put into this team. This example of how this has been handled is going to be typical of what to expect from Jockety instead of what we would have gotten with Krivsky.

Expect Jockety to get nothing for Hatteberg, not because of Hatteberg, but because of Jockety.

Yes, because I'm sure there was teams beating down the door for a 38 year old 1st baseman with no pop and no intrest in being a back up. He did what he had to do to get Jay Bruce up and like it or not as bad as he is Corey Patterson can help this team more than Scott Hatteberg can.

757690
05-27-2008, 06:16 PM
G.M.'s don't look at what a veteran has done in a small sample of 40 or so at-bats. They look at what he's done over his career. Just like Krivsky was able to get a decent player last August for Conine, he would have been able to get equal value for Hatteberg regardless of how he's doing this year.

Jockety is going to put in half of the effort that Krivsky put into this team. This example of how this has been handled is going to be typical of what to expect from Jockety instead of what we would have gotten with Krivsky.

Expect Jockety to get nothing for Hatteberg, not because of Hatteberg, but because of Jockety.

Hatteberg said he will retire if not able to get a starting job. Conine was happy as a PH. Because of that I doubt anyone, Krivsky, Bob Howsem, or Trader Jack could get much for Hatteberg.

Jr's Boy
05-27-2008, 11:41 PM
Now they need to ditch Belisle and bring up Bailey.

SarasotaFan
05-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Now they need to ditch Belisle and bring up Bailey.Hahah that's a laugh...

dsmith421
05-28-2008, 02:04 PM
Jockety is going to put in half of the effort that Krivsky put into this team. This example of how this has been handled is going to be typical of what to expect from Jockety instead of what we would have gotten with Krivsky.

Not merely content with ignorantly questioning the effort of the players, Reds fans move on to the front office.

NL Central Champions: 1996, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006
NL Pennant: 2004, 2006
World Series Champions: 2006

Clearly Jocketty is half-assing it.

Hondo
05-28-2008, 02:35 PM
Now they need to ditch Belisle and bring up Bailey.

I don't think thats a laugh... Atleast there would be some excitment with Bailey pitching... He might learn something and be poised to win big in 2009... Belisle is just not part of the future, unless he is the Innings eater in the BP, and even then I am scared....

I also want to say that I was very dissapointed Hatte was DFA and Corey Patterson is still on this team. Shamefull.

BLEEDS
05-28-2008, 03:30 PM
Bruce is up, playing CenterField, and Corey Patterson is in AAA. Not quite DFA'd, but pretty darn close.

I have never been so happy to be wrong in my life - as I indicated I would love to be!!

If this is an indication of the influence of Jocketty, then color me Freakin Impressed!!

Now, if he can trade KGJ for a prospect pitcher who produces 1/4th of the prowess Volquez has, or get a Right Handed power OF prospect, then we will need to erect a bust in downtown Cincinnati for him.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

durl
05-28-2008, 03:39 PM
I don't think thats a laugh... Atleast there would be some excitment with Bailey pitching...

I won't doubt that there will be some excitement, but will there be positive results? People may give Bailey a huge ovation because of what they think he represents, but what truly matters is how he performs on the mound. That excitement will give way to disgust if he comes up to Cincinnati and pitches like he has in the minors lately.

I believe we should look at potential results, not about how great it would be to see Bailey get a rotation job. That's two different things.

Hondo
05-28-2008, 03:44 PM
I won't doubt that there will be some excitement, but will there be positive results? People may give Bailey a huge ovation because of what they think he represents, but what truly matters is how he performs on the mound. That excitement will give way to disgust if he comes up to Cincinnati and pitches like he has in the minors lately.

I believe we should look at potential results, not about how great it would be to see Bailey get a rotation job. That's two different things.

I understand the differance. But when it comes to knowing that Belisle and Fogg, are. I would rather see Bailey pitching in the 5 hole, and developing at the major league level... Belisle is just, well, running a guy out there to run a guy out there...

SarasotaFan
05-29-2008, 08:15 AM
I won't doubt that there will be some excitement, but will there be positive results? People may give Bailey a huge ovation because of what they think he represents, but what truly matters is how he performs on the mound. That excitement will give way to disgust if he comes up to Cincinnati and pitches like he has in the minors lately.

I believe we should look at potential results, not about how great it would be to see Bailey get a rotation job. That's two different things.

spot on...

Walt's about winning, not about making the fans happy with a young kid once touted to be the saviour of the Reds or comparable to Nolan Ryan

levydl
05-29-2008, 10:20 AM
Bailey did as well last year as Cueto's doing this year. No reason Belisle or Fogg should ever have started a game this year, particularly if Walt's about winning. Get Bailey up here and let him figure it out.

Trace's Daddy
05-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Now comes the next question. Where can we trade Hatte and what can we get? AA player?

I heard on the radio today that the Mariners are interested in Hatte.

SarasotaFan
05-29-2008, 07:37 PM
Bailey did as well last year as Cueto's doing this year. No reason Belisle or Fogg should ever have started a game this year, particularly if Walt's about winning. Get Bailey up here and let him figure it out.
Let him figure it out when he can't figure it out in AAA ?? um....

Hondo
05-31-2008, 10:39 AM
Let him figure it out when he can't figure it out in AAA ?? um....

I have Posted this atleast 2 other times...

Homer had a 2.71ERA in his first 7 starts at AAA... The guy probably is wanting to be in the Big Leagues and is trying to do the best he can... Hunting Magazines or not, the guys got a Great LIVE arm...

Homer again posted a 2.71ERA in his first 7 Games... Didn't win them all but was excellent! Has he regressed? I do not think so... But there is a time to figure if he is a Big Leaguer or not, and right now... The Reds are wasting another opportunity with Starting Fogg today...

I don't care if the Reds want to put Homer in the Pen as a set up guy throwing 95-97... I want the Talent, not the Re-Tread... (Fogg)

Lockdwn11
05-31-2008, 11:15 AM
I have Posted this atleast 2 other times...

Homer had a 2.71ERA in his first 7 starts at AAA... The guy probably is wanting to be in the Big Leagues and is trying to do the best he can... Hunting Magazines or not, the guys got a Great LIVE arm...

Homer again posted a 2.71ERA in his first 7 Games... Didn't win them all but was excellent! Has he regressed? I do not think so... But there is a time to figure if he is a Big Leaguer or not, and right now... The Reds are wasting another opportunity with Starting Fogg today...

I don't care if the Reds want to put Homer in the Pen as a set up guy throwing 95-97... I want the Talent, not the Re-Tread... (Fogg)

Ok ,and thats fine but how can you just pull out his stats from the first 7 games and use them to make a case for him to be brought up? You have to look at his work as a whole and that says he isn't ready. What if they do bring him up and he blows? Does that hurt him more? I think he should stay down until he makes them move him up because he is pitching well right now not because he did good in his first 7 games but thats just me.

SarasotaFan
05-31-2008, 11:39 AM
I have Posted this atleast 2 other times...

Homer had a 2.71ERA in his first 7 starts at AAA... The guy probably is wanting to be in the Big Leagues and is trying to do the best he can... Hunting Magazines or not, the guys got a Great LIVE arm...

Homer again posted a 2.71ERA in his first 7 Games... Didn't win them all but was excellent! Has he regressed? I do not think so... But there is a time to figure if he is a Big Leaguer or not, and right now... The Reds are wasting another opportunity with Starting Fogg today...

I don't care if the Reds want to put Homer in the Pen as a set up guy throwing 95-97... I want the Talent, not the Re-Tread... (Fogg)
is April not considered a pitcher's month ? when it's cold, hitters don't have their timing just yet. it's warm now and he's regressed. you don't call a guy up when he's doing worse...

Hondo
05-31-2008, 12:01 PM
Well, he just had a great start on the 28th, going 6 IP, allowing 5 hits, 1 ER, Walking 4 and Striking Out 4... So that is Great...

My point about his first 7 starts, was more that only 3 starts did he get "roughed up", and that was where he gave up 15 ER in 14.1 IP, and the only really bad outing this year comes from 1 start where he gave up 11 hits and 6 ER in 4.1 IP...

His ERA is down to 4.05 and he has allowed less Hits (63) than IP (66.2) which shows he is getting hitters out and not getting "kocked" around...

1 Major bad outing is what I was basically saying. I apologize that I didn't break down all his starts in my previous threads... But the Point is, other than a Bad Start and 1 Sub-Par outing, he has been great... Also, Belisle and Fogg have been Horid, while Bailey has been basically dependable and putting out some Quality Starts, he would have 6 but he only pitched 5.1 Innings in 1 game... and another he gave up 4 ER in 7 IP...

Homer is going to be a Star for the Reds Rotation, just await and see...

:thumbup: