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OnBaseMachine
05-29-2008, 12:24 PM
Update on last year's Jay Bruce
Posted by JohnFay at 5/29/2008 12:04 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

Homer Bailey was last year's Jay Bruce. His debut -- a 4-3 victory over Cleveland -- was one of the electric moments of 2007. Striking out Dave Dellucci with the bases loaded and reds leading 3-2 got the loudest roar of the year.

Bailey ended going 4-2 with 5.76 ERA. The year included a return to Louisville to get things straightened out.

Bailey has been in Louisville all this year, or course. He was very good his last time out -- six innings, five hits, one run, four walks, four strikeouts. But Bailey had allowed at four runs or more in his previous four starts. Overall, he's 4-4 with a 4.05 ERA. His hits per inning -- 63 in 66 2/3 -- show his stuff is still good.

But there's been talk about him not doing what the Reds have asked. Not playing well with others and generally being a jerk.

Terry Reynolds, the Reds farm director, was in Columbus for Bailey's last outing.

"The stuff was there," Reynolds said. "He walked too many. But he pitched well. He looked good."

What about the talk of him not being with the program?

"That's not true," Reynolds said. "He's got a good working relationship with (pitching coach) Ted Power and (manager) Rick Sweet."

I think Bailey gets bad rap because he is not media friendly. I wrote about that during spring training. He could take a PR lesson from Bruce. But if Bailey can come up here and get people out, fans don't care. Some guys who are awful with the media are great players.

I think having Daryl Thompson at Louisville may help Bailey. Competition is a good thing.

http://beta.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a80a9fd28-9c60-4594-ae62-a9a69d0f51a3&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Degenerate39
05-29-2008, 12:50 PM
Well this is a different story than from what we've heard on this board lately. It's good to know that Bailey isn't what he's protrayed on this board.

gonelong
05-29-2008, 01:36 PM
Well this is a different story than from what we've heard on this board lately. It's good to know that Bailey isn't what he's protrayed on this board.

Well, its kind of hard to tell one way or another. I guess it depends on who we are willing to believe.

For arguments sake Reynolds could be sticking up for one of his players and sort of covering his backside at the same time. It is sort of his responsibility to make sure Homer is following instruction.

GL

smoke6
05-29-2008, 01:39 PM
But hasn't most of Bailey's bad PR stemed from Hal McCoy?

lollipopcurve
05-29-2008, 01:40 PM
I think Bailey gets bad rap because he is not media friendly. I wrote about that during spring training. He could take a PR lesson from Bruce. But if Bailey can come up here and get people out, fans don't care. Some guys who are awful with the media are great players.

Good to hear from a media guy. I doubt McCoy's able to muster the same perspective -- he's too busy slapping "good guy" or "jerk" labels on all the young 'uns.

OesterPoster
05-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Really, what else is Terry Reynolds going to say? He's not going to say negative things about a player to the press.

Degenerate39
05-29-2008, 01:42 PM
Really, what else is Terry Reynolds going to say? He's not going to say negative things about a player to the press.

Maybe so but it's just a little nice to hear something good about the guy. Personally I'm tired of hearing that he pitches hung over, he should be DFA, etc after a few bad outings.

smoke6
05-29-2008, 01:43 PM
The "good news" about Homer Bailey is that he isn't Matt Belisle.:D

MrCinatit
05-29-2008, 01:49 PM
But hasn't most of Bailey's bad PR stemed from Hal McCoy?

That's what I thought - seemed most of the bad Bailey stories originated from McCoy (and how would he know what is going on down in Louisville?)
Frankly, I couldn't give a flying goose if Bailey is media-friendly or not - I just want to see him be a good pitcher in the majors.

medford
05-29-2008, 01:50 PM
The "good news" about Homer Bailey is that he isn't Matt Belisle.:D

Or Eric Milton, or either of the Jimmy's, etc....

Hoosier Red
05-29-2008, 01:52 PM
Fay catches a lot of flak around here, but I think it's important to pat him on the back for this.

He looks into the Bailey situation. Offers a perspective that shows people in his business should lay off the kid. May make him more unpopular in the media dining room, but he gets credit from me.

Not that that means much.

redhawk61
05-29-2008, 02:08 PM
I don't care if he is an a-hole but the guy has got to start pitching with some control, let alone command. Until then....

Kc61
05-29-2008, 02:13 PM
I don't care if he is an a-hole but the guy has got to start pitching with some control, let alone command. Until then....


Put another way -- it's rather unfair to stereotype a young pitcher who, as far as I know, has never had a serious off-field problem. If he was starring down in Louisville, perhaps there would be fewer jabs.

I'm much more interested in his pitching than I am about the media's view of his personality.

DTCromer
05-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Until Bailey starts performing like a 1st round draft pick, he'll continually get picked on in Cincinnati. It's a sad, but true tale.

End of story.

thorn
05-29-2008, 02:24 PM
There is one of the thing that might be getting over looked here. Is Power the guy responsible for getting Homer ready for the ML's and if so maybe Power is the one to blame. Or is he getting directions from Pole, whom I have no confidence in anway. Basically who determines what is needed for Homer to get promoted, Pole or Power?

bucksfan2
05-29-2008, 02:30 PM
But hasn't most of Bailey's bad PR stemed from Hal McCoy?

Yea I think Hal even had a little diddy about Bailey today. It is really a shame that a so called "HOF" writer takes it to personally take shots at Bailey whenever possible. It is even more disturbing because Hal is 3+ hours away from where Bailey has pitched the majority of the games.

Hal has to get it through his head that Bailey's personality may be that of an introvert. He may not like talking to the media. He may like to go about his job and then retire for the evening. Heck Bailey has even caught flak because he as a 21 year old has been seen in bars. I don't think Bailey has to grow up as much as Hal needs to set his ego aside and start reporting the story not making the story.

dougdirt
05-29-2008, 02:36 PM
Yea I think Hal even had a little diddy about Bailey today. It is really a shame that a so called "HOF" writer takes it to personally take shots at Bailey whenever possible. It is even more disturbing because Hal is 3+ hours away from where Bailey has pitched the majority of the games.

Hal has to get it through his head that Bailey's personality may be that of an introvert. He may not like talking to the media. He may like to go about his job and then retire for the evening. Heck Bailey has even caught flak because he as a 21 year old has been seen in bars. I don't think Bailey has to grow up as much as Hal needs to set his ego aside and start reporting the story not making the story.

Hal took an absolute cheap shot at Bailey today for no reason. This was from todays DDN about last nights CINCINNATI REDS game.



Paul Janish, a great kid, is here. Jay Bruce, a great kid, is here. Homer Bailey is not here. And notice I didnít use the word great.

You wonder, just wonder, now that he has seen Janish and Bruce leave Louisville, along with Andy Phillips, can Bailey just adjust his attitude and work ethic, show some spunk instead of snarkiness and get himself up here.

It was no accident that Bruce got pie-faced and water soaked by his teammates after his debut and hardly any teammate paid attention when Bailey was here last year. Bruce is well-liked. Bailey is aloof. A loner. There is a reason for that.

LoganBuck
05-29-2008, 02:55 PM
Hal took an absolute cheap shot at Bailey today for no reason. This was from todays DDN about last nights CINCINNATI REDS game.

Hal must have missed the same pie in the face routine when Bailey got his first win. Hal must feel like a big man. Hal, Seg, and the 1530 guys, are poisoning the well in regards to Homer. The kid is young, lay off.

Lance had one of the baseballprospectus guys on yesterday, and he basically said the same thing: He needs time, was rushed, and now the luster seems to have worn off. But the stuff is still there. He just needs to focus.

The weather has heated up, I think Homer will follow suit.

HBP
05-29-2008, 02:58 PM
Wow, did Homer run over Hal's dog or something?

podgejeff_
05-29-2008, 03:05 PM
That last snippet from McCoy about Bailey is ridiculous and petty.

gonelong
05-29-2008, 03:05 PM
Hal must have missed the same pie in the face routine when Bailey got his first win. Hal must feel like a big man. Hal, Seg, and the 1530 guys, are poisoning the well in regards to Homer. The kid is young, lay off.

Hal is coming off as quite petty IMO. Sad to see how far he has fallen off in the last 5 years or so.

GL

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070608&content_id=2013830&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2007/06/09/o3njEPs9.jpg

OnBaseMachine
05-29-2008, 03:15 PM
Wow, did Homer run over Hal's dog or something?

I think not only did Homer run over Hal's dog, but he must have backed up and ran over it repeatedly. Hal is being ridiculous.

lollipopcurve
05-29-2008, 03:17 PM
That last snippet from McCoy about Bailey is ridiculous and petty.

Unprofessional too.

medford
05-29-2008, 03:19 PM
Wow, that just screams National Enquirer Hal. This has gone way, way, way past the point were its just a mear mention/side note. This has become personal for whatever reason. I understand why a sports writer could allow his like/dislike for a person to seep into his writing, but this is beyond silly.

membengal
05-29-2008, 03:52 PM
Seriously. This has crossed over to a needless and senseless vendetta. Even if Homer Bailey is the world's biggest jerk, there is just no good reason for unprovoked potshots at him from McCoy. None.

flyer85
05-29-2008, 04:09 PM
Bailey's biggest problem is that he may not be first on the list to take over for Belisle. The competition now seems to have three guys and that can only be a good thing.

bucksfan2
05-29-2008, 04:11 PM
Bailey's biggest problem is that he may not be first on the list to take over for Belisle. The competition now seems to have three guys and that can only be a good thing.

I don't think it even goes that far. If Bailey is described as a loner there is nothing you can do about nor is there anything wrong with that. There are millions of people in this world who like being by themselves. It shouldn't be a hindrance on Bailey being a great baseball player if he isn't outgoing, is it?

icehole3
05-29-2008, 04:39 PM
I like McCoy's analysis, but this is the cheapshot of the year, I just lost a lot of respect for the guy. A little research Hal and you couldve found that photo gonelong posted, good god.

http://www.sternfannetwork.com/forum/images/smilies/Eyes/uh-oh.gif

thorn
05-29-2008, 05:23 PM
I don't think it even goes that far. If Bailey is described as a loner there is nothing you can do about nor is there anything wrong with that. There are millions of people in this world who like being by themselves. It shouldn't be a hindrance on Bailey being a great baseball player if he isn't outgoing, is it?


That's not the point, at least to me. The questions is does his attitude hinder his development. If it does then he needs and attitude adjustment, if it doesn't then leave him alone. Regardless, those are some cheap shots better left unprinted.

Aronchis
05-29-2008, 05:38 PM
I think the problem is why is Bailey struggling? Alot of people feel betrayed by Bailey and it is showing more and more. His 68I's in AA don't support what he has failed to do in AAA. The Reds obviously have given him medical tests by now and they must not have shown anything.

So we are seeing allegations of poor attitude and fire. I have already gotten into arguements over his bad partying habits, but those rumors are hardly new.

I think if Bailey's struggles were more major league related, you wouldn't see the anger. But the fact he struggles in Triple A is getting on peoples nerves bigtime.

As I have said 1000 times, it is all velocity related with Homer. When he was throwing in AA, it was pretty much mid-90's consistantly. Some games he was throwing 94-98 throughout his entire start. Since he has been in AAA he has struggled to reach those velocities consistantly. when he has been around them more, his numbers, obviously have been his better starts.

With less velocity, Homer can't just overpower hitters. Yet, he still grooves in pitches and they get hit hard. Then he starts nibbling because of it and he walks alot of batters. It sounds like Homer earlier in the year was throwing a bit harder and getting away with more positional outs. The last 6-7 starts his velocity has dipped down to the low 90's which describes my above thesis.

So we get the "anger" that Bailey is holding back and pitching like he doesn't care. Not the first, or last time we will hear that until Bailey confirms or something else is brought up that proves that hunch was wrong.

Highlifeman21
05-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Well, its kind of hard to tell one way or another. I guess it depends on who we are willing to believe.

For arguments sake Reynolds could be sticking up for one of his players and sort of covering his backside at the same time. It is sort of his responsibility to make sure Homer is following instruction.

GL

I can't imagine our scouting director would go on the record to say "Homer's still walking too many guys, and he's a jerk."

Although in Fay's latest, he did say that Homer walked too many....

Highlifeman21
05-29-2008, 06:15 PM
Hal took an absolute cheap shot at Bailey today for no reason. This was from todays DDN about last nights CINCINNATI REDS game.

Maybe Hal thinks he's lighting a fire under Bailey that will get the kid to perform like the phenom he's supposed to be?

I don't think Hal's bashing Homer just to bash Homer.

Cyclone792
05-29-2008, 06:19 PM
McCoy throwing more gasoline in that fire:


For those taking me to task about what I said about Bailey - hey, I like the kid. I don’t care if he talks to the media or treats us with disrespect or tries to kick my dog, Barkley (yeah, I do care about that one).

There was a time this spring when it was Homer and me, by ourselves in a clubhouse in Fort Myers, Fla., before he pitched against the Red Sox. We chatted and he smiled and he told me a joke.”

But there are times when he isn’t personable and that’s fine, too - if it’s only with the media. Two of his teammates, both in the rotation, took him to task for a “big-league attitude” this spring and one said, “What he needs is for somebody to take him water skiing, without the skiis.”

Somebody brought up Steve Carlton. No, he didn’t communicate with the media, but he did with his teammates and his teammates loved him.

And say what you want about Terry Reynolds saying Homer is getting a bad rap. With the Reds needing another starting pitcher right now, if they thought Bailey was ready would they be starting Josh Fogg Saturday.

Enough. If Homer can pitch up here (but he has to do more at AAA right now), get him up here - cowboy boots, cowboy belt buckle, big ol’ truck, Bowie knife, cocky attitude, whatever.

It isn't too difficult to figure out that the two pitchers McCoy is referring to have to be Harang and Arroyo. They were the only ones with tenure during spring training. And given that quote, it sounds like something Arroyo would say.

Aronchis
05-29-2008, 06:56 PM
You have to even wonder if Bailey starts pitching well if the current Reds players will want him called up. They may lay a stink about it.

Homer sounds like he has alienated the entire 25 man roster.

LoganBuck
05-29-2008, 07:07 PM
I don't care if they aren't buddies. Too much is made of "chemistry".

Leave Homer Alone!

I will say it again, the weather has warmed up, I suspect Homer is about to as well.

Scrap Irony
05-29-2008, 07:16 PM
Bailey is learning how to pitch, not throw. And I know of no one else (aside from Aronchis) who continues the completely unfounded rumor of Bailey's alleged partying. As far as an attitude goes, I really don't care. Nor should anyone else. Steve Carlton had the world's worst and Bob Gibson's wasn't far behind. Attitude sometimes assists a pitcher, particularly one who often doesn't challenge hitters enough (like Homer). To say he shouldn't "groove" pitches over the plate and then, in the next breath, to jump on him for his BB rate is really ridiculous. It's either one or the other. And it's not like he's lost stuff. (Despite what Aronchis would have you believe.) Though 8.6 h/ 9 IP is above what he has shown historically, it's not like he's chucking and ducking.

Bailey's problem, thus far this season, is the big inning. Once he's off, he's really off. Too, he's been a bit homer unlucky.

Relax, he's only 22. He'll get it sooner or later. Then, watch out.

And, if not, there's always another pitcher to skewer-- I mean, root for.

SarasotaFan
05-29-2008, 07:43 PM
I don't think it even goes that far. If Bailey is described as a loner there is nothing you can do about nor is there anything wrong with that. There are millions of people in this world who like being by themselves. It shouldn't be a hindrance on Bailey being a great baseball player if he isn't outgoing, is it?

it should be when he isn't even proven yet...

RedsManRick
05-29-2008, 07:46 PM
I'm sorry, but 6 IP with 5 H, 4 BB, and 4 SO is not "very good". A 1.50 WHIP in Louisville and 6 K/9 is not something to be pumped up about. Yes, he allowed just 1 run. It could've easily have been 3.

Until Bailey shows himself to be more ready than Matt Maloney, he's at best #2 in the promotion pecking order.

I don't care what his attitude is or isn't. Hal saying that there's no reason for being a loner is really rude of him. It's one thing if Bailey doesn't take instruction. But to rail on him for having a quiet personality is just a plain old personal attack and was completely unprofessional. That all said, his pitching isn't ready. Until it is, he stays in AAA.

Scrap Irony
05-29-2008, 10:10 PM
I thought the job of the pitcher was to keep the other team from scoring runs? Does it matter how pretty it is now?

Cedric
05-29-2008, 10:30 PM
Hal Mccoy is just flat out annoying. I'm sorry but I can't say I've ever been entertained or enlightened by a damn thing the man says.

That's that.

RedsManRick
05-29-2008, 10:44 PM
I thought the job of the pitcher was to keep the other team from scoring runs? Does it matter how pretty it is now?

Because what you call pretty is what leads to those runs scoring over the long haul. Next time he allows 9 base-runners in 6 innings, it's quite likely he'll allow more than 1 run.