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View Full Version : Danny Ray Herrera should be in Cincinnati



AmarilloRed
05-30-2008, 01:50 AM
His 2008 numbers: 3-0, 1.75 ERA, 24 games, 36 IP, 23 hits, 8 runs 7 er, 1 hr, 10 walks, 26 K, a .187 BAA, a .200 BABIP, and a 50% GB%(very important in Cincinnati). He continues to pitch like this, and there is no reason he should stay in Louisville past the end of June.

Homer Bailey
05-30-2008, 02:37 AM
I agree that his numbers are great, but he was never considered a "super" prospect, and I think many would prefer he prove himself in AAA a little bit longer. Some also doubt that his stuff can get major league hitters out. Usually I'm all for bringing guys up as fast as possible, but for some reason I'm hesitant to bring up Herrara this quickly.

Degenerate39
05-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Could Herrera be the deciding factor that chooses who won the trade? Kind of like Thompson for the Nats deal.

Danny Serafini
05-30-2008, 10:41 AM
He's barely spent any time in AAA, let him develop. Why is there this constant rush to move pitchers who aren't ready up? Do we really need more Brian Reiths?

redsmetz
05-30-2008, 10:45 AM
Could Herrera be the deciding factor that chooses who won the trade? Kind of like Thompson for the Nats deal.

Does every trade have to be couched in terms of who won and who lost? Can't a trade be something that benefits both clubs? That does happen from time to time.

Joseph
05-30-2008, 11:33 AM
Does every trade have to be couched in terms of who won and who lost? Can't a trade be something that benefits both clubs? That does happen from time to time.

In this day and age people are either winners or losers, seemingly, and you can't just help each other out. You have to outsmart your counterpart. Alexander for Smoltz. Andersen for Bagwell.

Thats what people want, their team to get better at the expense of someone else.

HokieRed
05-30-2008, 01:56 PM
I don't think there's any chance Herrera is going to decide who won the trade. Texas has already decided that. The Reds are one arm injury to Volquez away from possibly the worst trade since the Reds last traded a supremely good position player for a starter who would upgrade their rotation.

minus5
05-30-2008, 02:04 PM
I don't think there's any chance Herrera is going to decide who won the trade. Texas has already decided that. The Reds are one arm injury to Volquez away from possibly the worst trade since the Reds last traded a supremely good position player for a starter who would upgrade their rotation.

If you look at it like that then aren't the Rangers one blown knee, or one fall off of the wagon or one broken leg from sliding into home away from them having made the worse trade ever? It isn't just pitchers who get injured.

fearofpopvol1
05-30-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't think there's any chance Herrera is going to decide who won the trade. Texas has already decided that. The Reds are one arm injury to Volquez away from possibly the worst trade since the Reds last traded a supremely good position player for a starter who would upgrade their rotation.

Or the Rangers are one relapse away from badly losing the trade. Also, Hamilton is the one with an injury history, not Volquez.

HokieRed
05-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Pitchers are always greater injury risks than position players, particularly for career-ending type injuries. That's a given that has to be taken into account in any pitcher for position player transaction.

fearofpopvol1
05-30-2008, 04:31 PM
Pitchers are always greater injury risks than position players, particularly for career-ending type injuries. That's a given that has to be taken into account in any pitcher for position player transaction.

Yes, but relapses are not typical risks associated with position players like it is with Hamilton either.

Sea Ray
05-30-2008, 04:51 PM
He's barely spent any time in AAA, let him develop. Why is there this constant rush to move pitchers who aren't ready up? Do we really need more Brian Reiths?

I think a lot of it has to do with the middle relief situation in Cincinnati. If he can help the team win games then I want him up there. In other words, it depends on how well guys like Weathers, Burton, Bray and Co are doing at GABP...and right now it's pretty shaky at GABP

Homer Bailey
05-30-2008, 04:57 PM
Some people use the "I'll take a guy that plays everyday" over the guy that plays every 5th day, but I respectfully disagree with that. Could Hamilton have impacted this team in the same way that Volquez has? He has an E.R.A. of 1.34. Let's say we didn't have Volquez, but had Bailey up and he had an E.R.A. of 5.00? (Generous considering he was 5.76 last year). Would Hamilton be able to make up with 3.66 runs everytime that Bailey started?

I still think we are winners in this trade big time. We got years of Volquez to enjoy.

AmarilloRed
05-30-2008, 06:12 PM
He's barely spent any time in AAA, let him develop. Why is there this constant rush to move pitchers who aren't ready up? Do we really need more Brian Reiths?

You are correct he has not spent much time so far in Louisville, but his numbers so far this year are very impressive. I simply want the Reds to consider it if he continues to pitch like this through June.
I am perfectly willing to let him spend the whole year at AAA, but if he shows he's ready and our current middle relievers don't do the job, bring him up!

Hoosier Red
05-31-2008, 09:25 AM
Can you imagine a year from now when the Reds will throw Volquez(and his sick change) out for 6, Roenicke and his heat for the 7th, Herrera and the super slow in the 8th, and then Cordero for the 9th. Batters won't know whats fast and whats slow or what's up and what's down.

schmidty622
05-31-2008, 01:18 PM
What kind of stuff does Herrera have anyway? I've heard he is just a junk baller who gets batters out on movement and control. What exactly does he throw?

fearofpopvol1
05-31-2008, 01:20 PM
What kind of stuff does Herrera have anyway? I've heard he is just a junk baller who gets batters out on movement and control. What exactly does he throw?

His big pitch is he throws a screwball that is supposedly very deceptive. He does not have much velocity on his fastball, but as we saw last night with Tom Glavine...if you can locate your stuff, you can pitch in the bigs. I think he can be a successful reliever if he locates his pitches.

schmidty622
05-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Do you think that the fact that he doesn't throw too hard would make him a good candidate for a long reliever position, or at least a guy that can go more than one inning in the same game on a consistant basis?

fearofpopvol1
05-31-2008, 01:27 PM
Do you think that the fact that he doesn't throw too hard would make him a good candidate for a long reliever position, or at least a guy that can go more than one inning in the same game on a consistant basis?

I would think he'd be better suited for shorter relief appearences, mostly because his strikeout/walk ratio has been really good, at least it has been in AAA. Not to mention, he is a lefty and I think the Reds need another good lefty late into games.

schmidty622
05-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Cool. I’m just looking at the Reds bullpen and not seeing many guys that can be stretched out and still be really effective. With no off day until June 16th I hope Dusty can manage the pen in a way that doesn't burn out the arms. Of course the starters outings also dictate that.

fearofpopvol1
05-31-2008, 02:39 PM
I think Affeldt would be the guy to go long if needed. He used to be a starter and has filled that role a few times before.

Oxilon
05-31-2008, 03:07 PM
He's barely spent any time in AAA, let him develop. Why is there this constant rush to move pitchers who aren't ready up? Do we really need more Brian Reiths?

I still don't understand the references to Brian Reith. Yes, he may have not been ready for the majors, but it wasn't like he was a touted prospect or anything. And if I recall, he had a superb first start in the majors than after that he got rocked.

Just because he was never a good pitcher doesn't mean it was because he was rushed. I mean, look at Mike Maroth and Robertson from Detroit. They were "rushed" and took more than their fair shair of lumps their first season and than eventually helped lead Detroit to the ALCS last season.

camisadelgolf
06-01-2008, 09:32 AM
It seems like some people are taking for granted the fact that Herrera doesn't have much heat. Just because he doesn't have much velocity doesn't mean he'd be a good candidate to throw a lot of multi-inning outings. For someone of his frame, an 85 MPH fastball could be as hard on the arm as a 95 MPH fastball coming from someone of a little bigger frame. Also, although I don't have anything to back it up, isn't it true that screwball pitchers are more prone to arm injury down the line?

schmidty622
06-01-2008, 10:02 AM
It seems like some people are taking for granted the fact that Herrera doesn't have much heat. Just because he doesn't have much velocity doesn't mean he'd be a good candidate to throw a lot of multi-inning outings. For someone of his frame, an 85 MPH fastball could be as hard on the arm as a 95 MPH fastball coming from someone of a little bigger frame. Also, although I don't have anything to back it up, isn't it true that screwball pitchers are more prone to arm injury down the line?


Thats a great point. I guess I'm just worried about the arms in the pen. Especially after the last two games.

The_jbh
06-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Let Herrera get more seasoning in AAA

plus we don't need another lefty in the majors right now. we have 3 already.

We need to stick with Bray.
Affeldt is an adequate set up man
Merker is pitching well enough to give us time with Herrera. Plus hes a good hometown veteran presence

Screwball
06-02-2008, 10:05 AM
Also, although I don't have anything to back it up, isn't it true that screwball pitchers are more prone to arm injury down the line?

I've heard that too. Supposedly it puts a lot of torque and pressure on the elbow, and it's a really tough pitch to locate. I think that's why you don't see too many pitchers with a screwball in their reportiore.

camisadelgolf
06-02-2008, 10:06 AM
I've heard that too. Supposedly it puts a lot of torque and pressure on the elbow, and it's a really tough pitch to locate. I think that's why you don't see too many pitchers with a screwball in their reportiore.

For some reason, I have no problem believing you on this topic.

medford
06-02-2008, 10:19 AM
Didn't Browning throw a screw ball? While it may be completely unrelated, but I'll never forget seeing his elbow break mid pitch. Yikes.

anyhoo, I think there are 2 reasons Herrara won't see the majors anytime the next 2 months, baring injury/trades.

First, he's not on the 40 man roster, meaning somebody would have to be moved off the roster in order to make room for him before bringing him up the big leagues. Sure there are probably some options for the Reds should they "really" need to bring Danny up, but I'm guessing they'd prefer to keep those options open while letting Danny continue to develop in the minors.

Second, w/ Bray, Affeldt & Mercker already w/ the team, how much would Danny help the Reds at this point? Could he be more effective than Weathers/Lincoln? Maybe, maybe not. I think the last thing any team would want to do is to become too left handed in the bullpen. Especially w/ a team that has nothing but right handed starters (at present anyways) That would make the late innings too predicable; give your left handed bench player a spot start against one of the Red's righties, knowing full well that your right handed stud is going to face a golden opportunity late in the game vs your left handed bullpen.

I'd leave Herrara down in AAA until at least the trade deadline. If there are significant moves made to free open spots, then give him a nice look the last 2 months of the season.

Screwball
06-02-2008, 10:27 AM
For some reason, I have no problem believing you on this topic.

:D

Blitz Dorsey
06-02-2008, 07:05 PM
Herrera will definitely be with the Reds eventually, no need to rush him. Maybe it will be this year, maybe it will be next year. But he'll get the call for sure at some point.

And I think he's more than a LOOGY (lefty that comes in and gets one left-handed batter out). He was a starter in college and I look for him to be a guy that can pitch a full inning or more at a time if needed. He "could" be used as a situational lefty, but his numbers indicate he's good enough to pitch longer stints (he averages barely more than 1 inning per appearance this year, he's usually in there for about four outs or so).

Blue
06-02-2008, 07:13 PM
I've heard that too. Supposedly it puts a lot of torque and pressure on the elbow, and it's a really tough pitch to locate. I think that's why you don't see too many pitchers with a screwball in their reportiore.

Wasn't there a pitcher who's palm faced the wrong way at the end of his career because of throwing too many curveballs, or is that an urban legend?

BH00327
06-02-2008, 09:45 PM
I'm happy with the young talent(Especially Pitching) coming up through the Reds system. Jocketty got a whole bunch of talented players to juggle lets see how he handles them.. Go Reds!

11larkin11
06-02-2008, 11:18 PM
I have a feeling righties will have just as much a hard time hitting a screwball as lefties will.

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 12:21 AM
Wasn't there a pitcher who's palm faced the wrong way at the end of his career because of throwing too many curveballs, or is that an urban legend?

I think you mean screwballs and yes Carl Hubbell was the man you speak of.


The difficulty in mastering the screwball, and the unusual stress it can place on the pitching-arm — throwing the screwball requires that the forearm be powerfully pronated as the ball is released — has made the pitch an increasingly rare part of the modern pitcher's arsenal. Christy Mathewson said of the screwball: "It is a very hard ball to deliver. Pitching it ten or twelve times a game kills my arm, so I save it for the pinches."[1] Carl Hubbell, who threw the screwball much more often than did Mathewson, twisted his left arm so severely from years of throwing the pitch that his left palm eventually faced outward when the arm was at rest. In general, the pitch is seldom recommended to young pitchers because of the harm it can potentially do to their arms. [2]

However, 1974 Cy Young Award winner Mike Marshall, who has a Ph.D. in kinesiology, and who was a renowned screwballer himself, believes that the screwball can be safely thrown by pitchers if the pitch is properly taught under supervision. [3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screwball

RedsManRick
06-03-2008, 11:55 AM
Oops... slow on the draw. NM

Danny Serafini
06-03-2008, 02:14 PM
Looks like you've got your wish, Amarillo.

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Looks like you've got your wish, Amarillo.

DS, you got some news? Disregard I see it now Mercker back to the DL and Herrera up, wow!

Sea Ray
06-03-2008, 02:23 PM
Looks like they need him now

medford
06-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Didn't take them long to prove me wrong. G/l Danny, hope you stick w/ the big club. Though I wonder, does this now mean that Danny will be heading back down to AAA and the Magic man stays w/ the big club when Bailey gets promoted on Thursday?

camisadelgolf
06-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Didn't take them long to prove me wrong. G/l Danny, hope you stick w/ the big club. Though I wonder, does this now mean that Danny will be heading back down to AAA and the Magic man stays w/ the big club when Bailey gets promoted on Thursday?

I don't think so. That would mean they started Herrera's arbitration clock and wasted an arbitration year for no reason.

Danny Serafini
06-03-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't think so. That would mean they started Herrera's arbitration clock and wasted an arbitration year for no reason.

His clock would stop again when he got sent down. Two days of service time wouldn't mean anything.

PuffyPig
06-03-2008, 02:47 PM
I have a feeling righties will have just as much a hard time hitting a screwball as lefties will.

A lefthander primarily throws screwballs to right handed hitters.

The theory being is that a hitter can handle a ball which curves towrds him much easier than one that curves away from him.

So, LH pitchers learned the screwball (it's like a backward curve ball) so they had a better weapon vs. right handed batters.

camisadelgolf
06-03-2008, 02:52 PM
His clock would stop again when he got sent down. Two days of service time wouldn't mean anything.

I agree, but I meant to point out that it would be a waste of an option year.

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 03:01 PM
I agree, but I meant to point out that it would be a waste of an option year.

True but if he makes it 3 years in pro ball that would be an uber-accomplishment.

Danny Serafini
06-03-2008, 03:18 PM
I agree, but I meant to point out that it would be a waste of an option year.

Now that it could be.

camisadelgolf
06-03-2008, 03:20 PM
True but if he makes it 3 years in pro ball that would be an uber-accomplishment.

You mean he hasn't been getting paid these past three years? Herrera's legend gets bigger every day. ;)

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 03:26 PM
You mean he hasn't been getting paid these past three years? Herrera's legend gets bigger every day. ;)

I should have said Major League ball. W/O being able to hit higher velocities he is somewhat limited, basically he's a shorter Chris Hammond circa 2006 with a gimmick pitch. So it's unlikely he is around in 5-6 years to go FA and if he is it shouldn't take much to re-sign him as he will never be more than specialist pitcher unless everything else is nearly perfect.

camisadelgolf
06-03-2008, 03:34 PM
I should have said Major League ball. W/O being able to hit higher velocities he is somewhat limited, basically he's a shorter Chris Hammond circa 2006 with a gimmick pitch. So it's unlikely he is around in 5-6 years to go FA and if he is it shouldn't take much to re-sign him as he will never be more than specialist pitcher unless everything else is nearly perfect.

As someone has already pointed out, the fact that he's left-handed makes his 'gimmick pitch' less gimmicky. Also, he throws a lot of different pitches, so it may take the league quite some time to get acquainted with him.

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 03:36 PM
As someone has already pointed out, the fact that he's left-handed makes his 'gimmick pitch' less gimmicky. Also, he throws a lot of different pitches, so it may take the league quite some time to get acquainted with him.

That's true but I am just leaning with the odds here that the option burnt or not shouldn't make any difference in the long run. But I would hope he can beat the odds.

AmarilloRed
06-04-2008, 12:28 AM
Looks like you've got your wish, Amarillo.

I did want him on the Reds ballclub, but it happened a bit faster than I expected. I was expecting a callup at the start of July, after one more month in Louisville. It seems he really impressed the Reds management, however, and he now has the chance to show what he can do at the major league level.

OnBaseMachine
06-04-2008, 12:39 AM
What a great debut tonight by Danny Ray Herrera. He come on with runners on 2nd and 3rd and nobody out and got Shane Victorino to groundout to Janish at SS and force the runners to stay put. He then intentionally walked Chase Utley to load the bases for Ryan Howard. He went 2-2 on Howard and got him to chase a nasty slider down and away for a strikeout. Pat Burrell then stepped in and ran the count to 2-2 before taking a fastball on the inside corner for a strikeout. Just an excellent major league debut for Herrera. I was hoping the offense could push across three runs and reward him with a victory but that didn't happen unfortunately.

icehole3
06-04-2008, 06:24 AM
what about him starting down the road OBM can he do it?

OnBaseMachine
06-04-2008, 10:25 AM
what about him starting down the road OBM can he do it?

No. He would get crushed IMO if he were forced to throw six innings a night every five days. He's got a chance to succeed as a reliever in the majors if used properly, not so much as a starter.

OnBaseMachine
06-04-2008, 03:17 PM
Daniel Herrera LHP Reds One of the more fun players to root for out there, Herrera is listed at just 5'7" and 145 pounds. He also doesn't throw hard and gets by on command and secondary pitches, and to top it all off he goes by Danny Ray. Herrera will be an instant fan favorite if he can stick in the majors, and he's got a shot to do just that.

A 45th round pick by the Rangers in 2006, Herrera had a quality junior season pitching in the very hitter-friendly environment at New Mexico. He posted a 2.24 ERA and 104/29 K/BB in 128 1/3 innings, then utterly dominated at High-A Bakersfield with a 61/12 K/BB and 1.35 ERA while bouncing between the rotation and the bullpen for 53 1/3 innings. Since he tops out at 85 MPH with his fastball Herrera wasn't a highly sought after pick and he wasn't given much of a chance even after dominating in High-A. However, Herrera has one of the best changeups in the minors, as it sits in the low-60s with good screwball-type movement. He also has a fine slider and commands all of his pitches well, so he was worth giving a shot at higher levels.

Rather than keep him in the rotation, the Rangers thought the changeup specialist made the most sense in the bullpen and moved him there in 2007. Herrera was solid while pitching mostly for Double-A Frisco, posting over a strikeout per inning with good command and a 3.78 ERA. He was doing even better this season after coming over in the Josh Hamilton-Edinson Volquez deal, recording a 1.89 ERA and 26/11 K/BB in 38 innings between Double-A and Triple-A. Herrera will now take the spot of Kent Mercker, who is on the 60-day DL, in the Reds' bullpen, and he's a player you should certainly try and watch pitch if nothing else. He has some potential to be useful in a relief role for NL-only leaguers, but he's not someone to run out and grab just yet.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=MLB&columnid=3&article=30499

batsfan
06-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Herrera is back in Louisville.

bearcatattack
06-06-2008, 07:26 AM
Always fun to root for the underdog.Herrera will no doubt be the 1st reliever recalled from the minors.