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Mario-Rijo
06-02-2008, 05:34 PM
After Bruce getting promoted and perusing Camisadelgolf's organizational depth chart I started to wonder about the future. I think we have some pretty intriguing arms who are somewhat close who could make a solid impact in the future. However the positional players I just don't feel quite come close. After Todd Frazier it's somewhat slim pickins' IMO, which is strange considering how many upper tier draft picks we've had as of late.

So assuming that a large majority of RZ's would agree that Frazier is the highest remaining positional player that profiles to have an above avg offensive impact. And he is the most likely to both make it to the show and play everyday, the question is who's next to fit this profile?

And I also wonder as a side note how people feel we should attack this draft given where we stand organizationally from top to bottom.

So I have picked a few names who have some decent shot of fitting this profile and would like to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.

_Sir_Charles_
06-02-2008, 05:41 PM
I'd say that both Juan Fransisco and Brandon Waring both have the makings of well above average hitter in the bigs. But yes, they're both behind Frazier right now. There are several bats in Sarasota and below that could very easily develop into high-impact hitters. It just looks to be so bare right now with Louisville being raided so heavily this year. Give it time.

But that being said, I think we should be looking towards some bats in the draft this year. Of course a C with a bat & defense wouldn't hurt either. I've still got high hopes for Mesoraco, but I'd hate to hinge all my hopes on one young player.

TRF
06-02-2008, 05:45 PM
Cumberland seems to fly under the radar, as does Sean Henry.

dougdirt
06-02-2008, 05:48 PM
My positional rankings for the top 5 guys in the system would go:

1. Stubbs
2. Mesoraco
3. Frazier
4. Valaika
5. Dorn

I don't take drafting for need as something anyone should ever do. I think the Reds are going to go with the best player on the board and I have no doubt it will be a college player because the high school crop is fairly weak this year. I want Gordon Beckham unless Tim Beckham or Pedro Alvarez are on the board.... which they won't be. He has a strong chance of being there and would love to see the Reds pick him up.

redhawk61
06-02-2008, 05:52 PM
really? Dorn? he just can not hit lefties to save his life. I would put Fransisco over him and maybe a couple others.

Mario-Rijo
06-02-2008, 05:59 PM
My positional rankings for the top 5 guys in the system would go:

1. Stubbs
2. Mesoraco
3. Frazier
4. Valaika
5. Dorn

I don't take drafting for need as something anyone should ever do. I think the Reds are going to go with the best player on the board and I have no doubt it will be a college player because the high school crop is fairly weak this year. I want Gordon Beckham unless Tim Beckham or Pedro Alvarez are on the board.... which they won't be. He has a strong chance of being there and would love to see the Reds pick him up.

DD, do you really think both Stubbs and Mesoraco will be better than Frazier offensively? Do you think either of them will profile as above avg offensively?

I agree with you about BPA, however let's just say all things being equal at a given pick what need would fill 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc?

dougdirt
06-02-2008, 06:00 PM
really? Dorn? he just can not hit lefties to save his life. I would put Fransisco over him and maybe a couple others.

So he can't hit 20% of the league.... He looks like he can kill the other 80%. I will take that over Francisco at this point who has a 52-7 K/BB ratio. Francisco certainly has upside galore, but he has a terrible plate approach to this point that needs a big time overhaul before he can ever succeed in the major leagues.

Blue
06-02-2008, 06:02 PM
So he can't hit 20% of the league.... He looks like he can kill the other 80%. I will take that over Francisco at this point who has a 52-7 K/BB ratio. Francisco certainly has upside galore, but he has a terrible plate approach to this point that needs a big time overhaul before he can ever succeed in the major leagues.

Maybe the 'ole Joey Votto takastrike rule would actually be warranted for Francisco.

dougdirt
06-02-2008, 06:03 PM
DD, do you really think both Stubbs and Mesoraco will be better than Frazier offensively? Do you think either of them will profile as above avg offensively?

I agree with you about BPA, however let's just say all things being equal at a given pick what need would fill 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc?

I guess that was an overall ranking. I think it depends where Frazier ends up playing at and we don't know where that is. His bat has lost value since last year though, just because he has already moved off of shortstop and isn't even playing third base. He is playing more 1B and OF than anywhere else these days. At those positions he really needs to hit the crap out of the ball.

Blue
06-02-2008, 06:03 PM
DD, do you really think both Stubbs and Mesoraco will be better than Frazier offensively? Do you think either of them will profile as above avg offensively?

I agree with you about BPA, however let's just say all things being equal at a given pick what need would fill 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc?

I think you should qualify this. Above average for their position makes more sense.

Mario-Rijo
06-02-2008, 06:21 PM
I think you should qualify this. Above average for their position makes more sense.

Well let's say if you were making out a ML lineup with all 3 in it who would bat 1st of the 3, on a regular basis. I guess I am basing it on realistic ceiling.

Blue
06-02-2008, 07:05 PM
Well let's say if you were making out a ML lineup with all 3 in it who would bat 1st of the 3, on a regular basis. I guess I am basing it on realistic ceiling.

Ahh, I see. Good question. Frazier at the top. Then:

Devon Mesoraco
Drew Stubbs
Danny Dorn
Chris Valaika
Juan Francisco
Brandon Waring
Neftali Soto
Juan Duran (don't forget him!)

These guys all have a shot.

OnBaseMachine
06-02-2008, 07:24 PM
After Frazier I would go with Nefi Soto. He's got a quick bat, solid plate discipline, and the wiry frame to develop 25-30 homerun power.

camisadelgolf
06-02-2008, 07:24 PM
Justin Turner has been with Chris Valaika almost every step of the way, so I'll go ahead and toss his name in the hat. Zack Cozart is still disappointing with his bat in Dayton, but he's making improvements (although they haven't yet translated to the stat book), so I'm wondering if he'll have a Drew Stubbs-like transition into pro baseball (a slow start as he makes adjustments that will prepare him for MLB).

OesterPoster
06-02-2008, 07:26 PM
Frazier, Todd.

jmcclain19
06-02-2008, 07:52 PM
I'm of the position that we should completely eliminate offenders all together.

mth123
06-02-2008, 08:02 PM
Assuming this means after Frazier, but its confusing because some on the list could arrive before him.

I'll go with Shaun Cumberland.

Betterread
06-02-2008, 09:06 PM
1a - Todd Frazier - with his ability to get on base via the walk and his solid power potential (as long as he stays healthy) he will be productive
1b - Chris Valaika - the best pure hitter in the organization
2 - Juan Francisco - he has really high power potential - if he can get to 40 walks a year and cut down on the Ks.
3 - Danny Dorn - good all around offensive skills, too bad he doesn't have a ML fielder's skills - he is scary and he's not athletic enough to merit hope for improvement.
4 - Drew Stubbs - where is the power he shows in practice? He has to make better contact at this point in his career.
5 - Devin Mesoraco - wait and see. I have been marginally impressed to this point.

Screwball
06-02-2008, 10:47 PM
4 - Drew Stubbs - where is the power he shows in practice?


Perhaps the FSL is sapping some of his power. He wouldn't be the first nor the last to have that happen.

_Sir_Charles_
06-02-2008, 10:59 PM
Wow, people sure are impressed with Valaika apparently. I don't see it that way though. Sure, he's solid and talented...but "the best pure hitter in the organization" is stretching it a bit don't you think?

.307 at dayton in 2007. Got promoted to Sarasota for the second half of the year and struggled. Hit only .253 in 217 ab's. This year, he started at Sarasota and hit extremely well. .363 in 135 ab's. Was then promoted to 'nooga and in 90 ab's is hitting a paltry .244. Hopefully it's just an acclamation period of adjustment. But I haven't seen the solid consistancy for an entire year from him yet to call him the best pure hitter in the org. Have you?

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 12:15 AM
Wow, people sure are impressed with Valaika apparently. I don't see it that way though. Sure, he's solid and talented...but "the best pure hitter in the organization" is stretching it a bit don't you think?

.307 at dayton in 2007. Got promoted to Sarasota for the second half of the year and struggled. Hit only .253 in 217 ab's. This year, he started at Sarasota and hit extremely well. .363 in 135 ab's. Was then promoted to 'nooga and in 90 ab's is hitting a paltry .244. Hopefully it's just an acclamation period of adjustment. But I haven't seen the solid consistancy for an entire year from him yet to call him the best pure hitter in the org. Have you?

He's pretty good and it's probably accurate but he needs to learn to layoff some of those pitcher's pitches.

OnBaseMachine
06-03-2008, 12:34 AM
The Reds have a couple kids who I am pretty excited about in the lower minors, though both are probably four or five years away. Those two kids are Juan Duran and Neftali Soto. Obviously Duran has yet to play a game but his scouting report makes my jaw drop to the ground. He's described as a cross between Dave Winfield and Vladimir Guerrero with his 6-6 200 frame and great athleticism. But it's his hitting ability that really stands out. His power is described as 80 power potential (on the 20-80 scouting scale). That's not something you see very often. The other guy I really like is Neftali Soto, who was drafted by the Reds in the 3rd round last year out of Puerto Rico. Baseball America likes him a lot as they rated his the 8th best prospect in the GCL and described him as a future heart-of-the-order slugger. He's got solid plate discipline and a long wiry frame that should allow him to develop 25-30 homerun power down the road. Both of these kids are young and could be on a similar track to the majors. Add in Devin Mesoraco and hopefully another big bat or two from this upcoming draft and the Reds have some nice young position prospects in the lower minors.

OesterPoster
06-03-2008, 08:19 AM
Wow, people sure are impressed with Valaika apparently. I don't see it that way though. Sure, he's solid and talented...but "the best pure hitter in the organization" is stretching it a bit don't you think?

.307 at dayton in 2007. Got promoted to Sarasota for the second half of the year and struggled. Hit only .253 in 217 ab's. This year, he started at Sarasota and hit extremely well. .363 in 135 ab's. Was then promoted to 'nooga and in 90 ab's is hitting a paltry .244. Hopefully it's just an acclamation period of adjustment. But I haven't seen the solid consistancy for an entire year from him yet to call him the best pure hitter in the org. Have you?

I've seen him in person numerous times, and he has a very sweet stroke. I wouldn't have a problem calling his bat the best in the Reds' minor leagues. He goes through adjustment periods each time he's promoted, so I'd be shocked if he doesn't post a pretty good line the rest of the year at AA.

HBP
06-03-2008, 08:31 AM
The Reds have a couple kids who I am pretty excited about in the lower minors, though both are probably four or five years away. Those two kids are Juan Duran and Neftali Soto. Obviously Duran has yet to play a game but his scouting report makes my jaw drop to the ground. He's described as a cross between Dave Winfield and Vladimir Guerrero with his 6-6 200 frame and great athleticism. But it's his hitting ability that really stands out. His power is described as 80 power potential (on the 20-80 scouting scale). That's not something you see very often. The other guy I really like is Neftali Soto, who was drafted by the Reds in the 3rd round last year out of Puerto Rico. Baseball America likes him a lot as they rated his the 8th best prospect in the GCL and described him as a future heart-of-the-order slugger. He's got solid plate discipline and a long wiry frame that should allow him to develop 25-30 homerun power down the road. Both of these kids are young and could be on a similar track to the majors. Add in Devin Mesoraco and hopefully another big bat or two from this upcoming draft and the Reds have some nice young position prospects in the lower minors.

IMO it's great they've took chances on these guys. Yes Duran cost 2 mil, but it's not like they wasted a draft pick if he doesn't make it. I'm anxious to see how Soto performs when Billings (I assume) starts.