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View Full Version : David Ortiz out for a month, maybe season; Opens door for Dunn or Griffey trade?



Dan
06-03-2008, 08:30 AM
http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1098262


If the Red Sox [team stats] are going to repeat as world champions this season and win their third title in five years, they may have to do it without David Ortiz [stats].

After injuring his left wrist during the Red Sox’ victory over the Baltimore Orioles on Saturday night, Ortiz learned yesterday he has tendon sheath damage that will keep him sidelined indefinitely. According to a source, Ortiz’ wrist will be immobilized for roughly the next month to determine whether the injury can heal on its own.

If it cannot, the Red Sox and Ortiz very well may face a harsh reality:

Season-ending surgery.

What do y'all think? As much as I love Griffey this seems the perfect spot for him. Who would the Reds want in return?

OldXOhio
06-03-2008, 08:43 AM
http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1098262



What do y'all think? As much as I love Griffey this seems the perfect spot for him. Who would the Reds want in return?

WMP?

blumj
06-03-2008, 08:49 AM
For now, I think the Sox will go with Manny at DH and Crisp CF/Ellsbury LF sometimes, and DH Casey, Youkilis, or Lowell the rest of the time. I don't think they'll look to make a trade unless Ortiz needs surgery.

bucksfan2
06-03-2008, 08:55 AM
For now, I think the Sox will go with Manny at DH and Crisp CF/Ellsbury LF sometimes, and DH Casey, Youkilis, or Lowell the rest of the time. I don't think they'll look to make a trade unless Ortiz needs surgery.

I don't think the switch of Manny to DH would be as easy as you think. I don't think you can take an every day position player and switch him to DH and think every thing is going to be great. It takes a different kind of mental focus in order to become a great DH. I don't know if Manny would be as successful as a DH than as a LF.

puca
06-03-2008, 09:11 AM
I don't think the switch of Manny to DH would be as easy as you think. I don't think you can take an every day position player and switch him to DH and think every thing is going to be great. It takes a different kind of mental focus in order to become a great DH. I don't know if Manny would be as successful as a DH than as a LF.

Manny certainly has a 'different kind of mental focus', so it might just work. :)

Besides, whose to say whether Griffey or Dunn could hack as a DH either.

rotnoid
06-03-2008, 09:16 AM
Manny certainly has a 'different kind of mental focus', so it might just work. :)

Besides, whose to say whether Griffey or Dunn could hack as a DH either.

That's a good point, but that's something for the Sox to find out, honestly.

I wonder if they'll consider taking a chance on Bonds.

blumj
06-03-2008, 09:17 AM
Manny certainly has a 'different kind of mental focus', so it might just work. :)

That's the good side of "Manny being Manny". He's the same no matter what. As an Indian or a Red Sox, home or road, regular season or postseason, as a RF or LF or DH, Manny just keeps being Manny. And, BTW, he says he likes DH and they won't miss his gold glove out there.

Matt700wlw
06-03-2008, 10:15 AM
Could this be the door that gets Barry Bonds back in baseball, sadly?

OldXOhio
06-03-2008, 10:25 AM
In looking at the BoSox lineup, I couldn't help but notice that they're paying JD Drew 14 large this year. Is there a more overpaid player in the game, now that Milton's off our books?

Cyclone792
06-03-2008, 10:31 AM
In looking at the BoSox lineup, I couldn't help but notice that they're paying JD Drew 14 large this year. Is there a more overpaid player in the game, now that Milton's off our books?

While J.D. Drew isn't producing as much as Boston hoped when they inked him to that deal, he's still an above average right fielder. Somewhat overpaid? Sure. Most overpaid? Not even close.

Heck, Drew has the highest on-base percentage among all Red Sox regulars.

blumj
06-03-2008, 10:31 AM
In looking at the BoSox lineup, I couldn't help but notice that they're paying JD Drew 14 large this year. Is there a more overpaid player in the game, now that Milton's off our books?
JD Drew isn't even the most overpaid player on his own team.

pahster
06-03-2008, 10:33 AM
In looking at the BoSox lineup, I couldn't help but notice that they're paying JD Drew 14 large this year. Is there a more overpaid player in the game, now that Milton's off our books?

I can think of three off the top of my head (not counting those who are suffering from injuries): Gary Matthews Jr., Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. Drew gets on base a lot. I dunno what kind of defender he is these days, but he used to be pretty good.

membengal
06-03-2008, 10:34 AM
Jones, of that list.

Heck, as much as we all like to bag on Pierre, he has made a concerted effort to address his OBP issues this year and has been a very valuable contributor to the Dodgers.

RedsFan75
06-03-2008, 10:35 AM
So you move Manny to DH, and trade for Dunn, and get a defensive upgrade in the process???

pahster
06-03-2008, 10:36 AM
Jones, of that list.

Heck, as much as we all like to bag on Pierre, he has made a concerted effort to address his OBP issues this year and has been a very valuable contributor to the Dodgers.

His walk rate is up this year, but who knows if it'll last. A 73 OPS+ from a LF doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Cyclone792
06-03-2008, 10:39 AM
His walk rate is up this year, but who knows if it'll last. A 73 OPS+ from a LF doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The sponsor on Juan Pierre's BBR page isn't exactly a big Juan Pierre fan. :laugh:

pahster
06-03-2008, 10:41 AM
The sponsor on Juan Pierre's BBR page isn't exactly a big Juan Pierre fan. :laugh:

That's awesome. Didn't notice it til you pointed it out. :D

blumj
06-03-2008, 10:43 AM
I can think of three off the top of my head (not counting those who are suffering from injuries): Gary Matthews Jr., Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. Drew gets on base a lot. I dunno what kind of defender he is these days, but he used to be pretty good.
He's still pretty good. The only issues with Drew are that he doesn't hit HRs and he doesn't play when it seems like he's only a little bit hurt. Otherwise, he's not great at anything, but he's very good at everything.

BRM
06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
The sponsor on Juan Pierre's BBR page isn't exactly a big Juan Pierre fan. :laugh:

Wow, no kidding. That's hilarious stuff.

OnBaseMachine
06-03-2008, 10:46 AM
I'd much rather see Dunn signed long-term with the Reds, but the Red Sox are loaded with some young talent and matchup well with the Reds in a trade. If the Sox offered SS Jed Lowrie, RHP Justin Masterson, and RHP Michael Bowden it would be a deal worth considering, though like I said, I'd rather see Dunn locked up by the Reds.

blumj
06-03-2008, 10:56 AM
I'd much rather see Dunn signed long-term with the Reds, but the Red Sox are loaded with some young talent and matchup well with the Reds in a trade. If the Sox offered SS Jed Lowrie, RHP Justin Masterson, and RHP Michael Bowden it would be a deal worth considering, though like I said, I'd rather see Dunn locked up by the Reds.

I love Justin Masterson. I really, really hope the Sox don't trade him. It's not even that I really think he's ever going to be that great a pitcher, I just adore him irrationally.

membengal
06-03-2008, 11:09 AM
His walk rate is up this year, but who knows if it'll last. A 73 OPS+ from a LF doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

True to that last part. But that walk rate being up? I will give Pierre credit, it's up, according to interviews he has given, in large measure because he has listened to the criticisms of his game, taken it to heart, and tried to implement some changes. He's obviously NEVER going to hit for power. So to be remotely useful, he has to be on base a lot and be successful stealing at a high percentage. He is trying to do that.

While he is overpaid (obviously), he is nowhere near the most egregiously overpaid player in the game at this point.

Cyclone792
06-03-2008, 11:25 AM
Regarding trading Dunn ... does anybody actually have the real list of teams that are on Dunn's "ok to trade" list?

The rumors I've seen suggest Dunn's list of teams he would allow a trade are all teams that either couldn't afford him or wouldn't want him. The effect of this is essentially him maintaining his no-trade clause throughout the entire season. But this is merely a rumor as I haven't seen the actual list.

redsmetz
06-03-2008, 11:30 AM
Regarding trading Dunn ... does anybody actually have the real list of teams that are on Dunn's "ok to trade" list?

The rumors I've seen suggest Dunn's list of teams he would allow a trade are all teams that either couldn't afford him or wouldn't want him. The effect of this is essentially him maintaining his no-trade clause throughout the entire season. But this is merely a rumor as I haven't seen the actual list.

I've always doubted that line of thinking. I wouldn't even call them "rumors" - I think that notion was cooked up here on Redszone as a "he could do this" thought, not anything based in reality.

Cyclone792
06-03-2008, 11:32 AM
I've always doubted that line of thinking. I wouldn't even call them "rumors" - I think that notion was cooked up here on Redszone as a "he could do this" thought, not anything based in reality.

Rosenthal is the only source I've seen with any inkling of Dunn's list:


Dunn selected the teams on his limited no-trade list carefully, choosing mostly high-revenue clubs that could afford him. That way, he could gain a say — and leverage — in most discussions.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8086082/Trade-market-getting-ready-to-open-for-business

If anything is obvious from past season, it's that Dunn hates trade rumors. That's why I think the above is not only plausible, but probable. If he wants as much control as possible over what's going on, this is the way to gain it.

Falls City Beer
06-03-2008, 11:34 AM
The Red Sox don't need to replace Ortiz's bat. They'll be fine without him; they'll certainly not trade big-time prospects even for Dunn.

M2
06-03-2008, 11:35 AM
I'd much rather see Dunn signed long-term with the Reds, but the Red Sox are loaded with some young talent and matchup well with the Reds in a trade. If the Sox offered SS Jed Lowrie, RHP Justin Masterson, and RHP Michael Bowden it would be a deal worth considering, though like I said, I'd rather see Dunn locked up by the Reds.

Add Brandon Moss to that list. He'd be a nice pickup for the Reds.

OnBaseMachine
06-03-2008, 11:39 AM
Add Brandon Moss to that list. He'd be a nice pickup for the Reds.

I agree. I like him too but I like the other three a little better and I'm not sure the Sox would trade all four.

I'm beginning to think the Reds may deal Dunn. All the big draft gurus seem to think the Reds are going to draft a big college first baseman with the No. 7 pick. That leads me to believe the Reds may trade Dunn and move Joey Votto to left field.

Degenerate39
06-03-2008, 11:46 AM
Why didn't I trade Ortiz for Bruce on Fantasy Baseball?!

M2
06-03-2008, 11:47 AM
I agree. I like him too but I like the other three a little better and I'm not sure the Sox would trade all four.

I'm beginning to think the Reds may deal Dunn. All the big draft gurus seem to think the Reds are going to draft a big college first baseman with the No. 7 pick. That leads me to believe the Reds may trade Dunn and move Joey Votto to left field.

I don't like the notion of Votto in LF. He was awful out there last year. I also don't think the team can trade Dunn at this juncture because it's still got a chance to do something in 2008. A Dunn trade would be a white flag move.

Jr.'s the OF who could be dealt while still going after it 2008. Mind you, Jr. would have to heat up and the Red Sox offense would have to cool off something fierce before a deal like that could be worked.

westofyou
06-03-2008, 11:51 AM
Jr.'s the OF who could be dealt while still going after it 2008. Mind you, Jr. would have to heat up and the Red Sox offense would have to cool off something fierce before a deal like that could be worked.

http://www.bleacherreport.com/articles/26864-Ken-Griffey-Jr-An-Early-Christmas-for-the-Seattle-Mariners--020608





Since leaving Seattle after the 1999 season, Ken Griffey Jr. has lost the lustre that he built while introducing the Mariners to the national spotlight.

While playing for the Seattle Mariners, Ken Griffey Jr. was a phenomenal athlete, with the sky as his limit. He not only built himself into a household name, but he single-handedly saved baseball in the state of Washington.

It was Griffey, and his passion for the game, that drove the Mariners back into contention, and caused Seattle to build one of the top three state of the art stadiums in the Major Leagues—Safeco Field.

We watched a young kid turn into a legend in his prime. Amazing catches, complemented by the sweetest swing in baseball, made for a one-of-a-kind athlete.

But since his trade to the Reds, Ken Griffey Jr. has managed to hit over .300 only one time (2005: .301). Injuries and noticeable decreases in home runs and RBI production have allowed Ken Griffey to slip out of the spotlight until his recent quest for Home Run No. 600.

The rumor is that once the milestone is passed, the Reds will make room for the younger slugger Jay Bruce by trading Ken Griffey Jr. If this is the case—what an early Christmas it could be for the die-hard Seattle fans!

After almost inevitably losing the Supersonics to Oklahoma City, the fans of Seattle deserve something to bring spirit back to their city.

Bringing Ken Griffey Jr. back to Seattle would be one of those surreal moments that make sports worth watching, even if your team is 13.5 games out of first place only a third of the way through the season.

Even if he never hit another home run in his life, if the man who once walked into the Kingdome as an 18-year-old rookie took the field at Safeco wearing the No. 24 jersey, 6.5 million Washingtonians would be forever grateful.

OnBaseMachine
06-03-2008, 11:52 AM
I don't like the notion of Votto in LF. He was awful out there last year. I also don't think the team can trade Dunn at this juncture because it's still got a chance to do something in 2008. A Dunn trade would be a white flag move.

Jr.'s the OF who could be dealt while still going after it 2008. Mind you, Jr. would have to heat up and the Red Sox offense would have to cool off something fierce before a deal like that could be worked.

I don't really like the idea of Votto in LF either. I think his defense is fine at 1B and will only get better IMO. Also agree with ya that Griffey is the outfielder who should be dealt but the Red Sox don't strike me as a team who would be interested in him.

fearofpopvol1
06-03-2008, 12:12 PM
In looking at the BoSox lineup, I couldn't help but notice that they're paying JD Drew 14 large this year. Is there a more overpaid player in the game, now that Milton's off our books?

You could make a pretty good case for Zito

blumj
06-03-2008, 12:43 PM
The Red Sox just called up Chris Carter, the guy they got for Wily Mo.

HokieRed
06-03-2008, 01:32 PM
We've got one closer to home that comes close, IMHO, to being as overpaid as JD--Bronson Arroyo, RZ's most overrated player and Wayne's most overrated acquisition.

blumj
06-03-2008, 01:48 PM
We've got one closer to home that comes close, IMHO, to being as overpaid as JD--Bronson Arroyo, RZ's most overrated player and Wayne's most overrated acquisition.
Again, not even the most overpaid player on his own team.

Jpup
06-03-2008, 02:02 PM
No way does Theo want Jr. He doesn't make their team better.

Mario-Rijo
06-03-2008, 02:42 PM
I'll play along who knows.

To Boston - Jr & Freel

To Cincy - Crisp & Lowrie/Masterson

OldXOhio
06-03-2008, 02:48 PM
You could make a pretty good case for Zito

Ding ding ding ding. Clearly I didn't think before posting. Nonetheless, I do find it funny that Drew is on a similar pay level to the Ordonez and Guerrero's of the league.

blumj
06-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Ding ding ding ding. Clearly I didn't think before posting. Nonetheless, I do find it funny that Drew is on a similar pay level to the Ordonez and Guerrero's of the league.
True, but when those guys signed, the market was down considerably compared to when Drew signed. If a healthy Vlad or Maggs had signed the same offseason that Drew did, they'd both easily be making $18+M a year.

TRF
06-03-2008, 03:22 PM
You could make a pretty good case for Zito

I think Zito is starting to turn it around. 5 starts in May, 3.49 ERA 21 K's in 28 IP. No doubt he's been a disappointment, but if he keeps this up for another month and a half, SF can get out of that contract AND get some prospects. SOMEONE will deal for him if he continues to pitch like he did this last month.

M2
06-03-2008, 03:33 PM
I think Zito is starting to turn it around. 5 starts in May, 3.49 ERA 21 K's in 28 IP. No doubt he's been a disappointment, but if he keeps this up for another month and a half, SF can get out of that contract AND get some prospects. SOMEONE will deal for him if he continues to pitch like he did this last month.

I expect that someone will be based in New York City. Whether it's the Mets or Yankees, I can't say.