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View Full Version : What is it with Baker and his ex-Cubs????



red-in-la
06-04-2008, 10:59 PM
He lets Patterson bat against a LH pitcher in the 8th and he lets Bako hit against a LH pitcher in the 9th? I am just floored here....:eek:

Rounding Third
06-04-2008, 11:08 PM
Its because we didn't have a righty off the bench to hit against the lefty that had only allowed 2 hits all year. Oh wait, we actually had 3 of them.

I thought Patterson had to bat leadoff in order to split the lefties? But him and Bruce can go back to back? And then Dunn and Votto go back to back?

Dusty is like Michael from The Office. I am waiting for Stanley to flip out on him and yell at him and say something like, "Everyday I think you couldn't possibly be stupider, but everyday you and your damn little peahead brain do something stupider and stupider." Or something like that...

Kc61
06-04-2008, 11:12 PM
Maybe in a one run ballgame he wanted his good defensive centerfielder to stay in the game.

He probably should have hit for Bako, but if Ross came up Phils would have gone to a righty.

Dusty handled the pitchers well in that game and managed just fine.

Every time Patterson's name appears on the lineup card, fans start going after Dusty. It's not his fault Griffey has general soreness and Freel an injured hamstring.

redsmetz
06-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Maybe in a one run ballgame he wanted his good defensive centerfielder to stay in the game.

He probably should have hit for Bako, but if Ross came up Phils would have gone to a righty.

Dusty handled the pitchers well in that game and managed just fine.

Every time Patterson's name appears on the lineup card, fans start going after Dusty. It's not his fault Griffey has general soreness and Freel an injured hamstring.

Amen! We won the game 2-0 and we're complaining?

Spring~Fields
06-04-2008, 11:26 PM
He lets Patterson bat against a LH pitcher in the 8th and he lets Bako hit against a LH pitcher in the 9th? I am just floored here....:eek:

And he promotes the idea that he is concerned about lefty, lefty in the lineups but lets the two worst left handed batters hit against a good left handed pitcher. Baker is a walking contradiction, utilizing buzz words for the media and fans when it is convenient, but his acts contradict him.

Escalation of commitment, Baker wanted these guys brought into the Reds organization because they are players that he had seen and was familiar with and he is doing everything he can to try and make it look justifiable, but the players aren’t good enough and it makes Baker look like he is some obsessed fanatic over those ex-Cubs, and a very poor judge of talent.

The worst part is how bad a judge of talent and skills that Baker apparently really is, Baker really believed that Patterson, Mercker, Bako and Hairston were the right men for the job in Cincy.

Baker continues to do Patterson a disfavor by batting him up in the order when Patterson might actually contribute batting down in the order, where he has in the past. Jocketty has his work cut out for him, form fitting a team for Baker.

Defined:
Escalation of commitment is the phenomenon where people increase their investment in a decision despite new evidence suggesting that the decision was probably wrong.

LoganBuck
06-04-2008, 11:29 PM
Every time Patterson's name appears on the lineup card, fans start going after Dusty. It's not his fault Griffey has general soreness and Freel an injured hamstring.

Hairston can play center, Janish is a shortstop. Patterson pretends to be a baseball player, and the only good thing my dad pointed out tonight: If Patterson hits in front of Bruce, Bruce gets to come to the plate faster.

Kc61
06-04-2008, 11:36 PM
So now, in order to criticize Baker, we consider Mercker a Baker ex-Cub favorite? I seem to remember him being an ex Red who played with the team three times, lives nearby and wanted to pitch again with the team.

And Hairston and Bako have made a pretty solid contribution. Bako hit very well early and filled in well when Ross was hurt. He's slumping now, but some of his teammates have also slumped and they are not ex-Cubs.

Patterson started off hot, then went into a deep slump. Baker didn't just keep him -- he sent him to AAA. Only when Freel and Griffey got hurt did Patterson return.

I think the last few weeks have shown that Baker can win when he has the talent. I didn't read all the criticism when Bruce was hitting .600 and the team was winning virtually every home game.

Baker has done very well in the single most important aspect of in game managing, his use of pitchers. The starters are throwing a reasonable number of pitches. Relievers are not being overused. Dusty obviously tries to rest relievers when possible and is very aware of their workload.

RedlegJake
06-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Baker really believed that Patterson, Mercker, Bako and Hairston were the right men for the job in Cincy.

Come on now. Bako gave the Reds a shot when they needed him most while Ross was out. His defense is a plus and he has handled the young pitchers really well. His bat is what it is. Once again, I am not going to hate the player because Dusty misuses him in situations like tonight when he should have been pinch hit for.

Hairston has been very valuable and plays all over, has hit and run well and has tried his best playing at a position he isn't suited to. I actualy like the guy's contributions so far.

Merck came in and pitched decently. I don't remember him killing the Reds in any games like Lincoln, or Weathers. Besides Mercker wasn't brought back because of Dusty, but because of his ties to the team.

Patterson. Well, I'm not defending this - on Patterson I agree with you. I'd as soon see Dickerson getting his shot but Dusty really seems to have a blind spot when it comes to Corey.

Spring~Fields
06-04-2008, 11:41 PM
Maybe in a one run ballgame he wanted his good defensive centerfielder to stay in the game.

He probably should have hit for Bako, but if Ross came up Phils would have gone to a righty.

Dusty handled the pitchers well in that game and managed just fine.

Every time Patterson's name appears on the lineup card, fans start going after Dusty. It's not his fault Griffey has general soreness and Freel an injured hamstring.

Don't forget that lineup that sets the Reds up to have less than maximized chances by not utilizing his highest OPB batters, and stunts like sending Dunn who was picked off. Hairston another error on a routine ground ball while a slick fielding shortstop sits. How about having Freel man center when Baker is on record saying that center is a lot of running for a player with past leg problems though Freel had those past leg problems.

Why is it that Baker makes it so easy to criticize him?
Why isnít harder ?
Who is responsible for that,
the manager himself is.

No excuse for batting Patterson up in the order
No excuse for Hairston not playing the outfield and Janish helping out the pitching by his fielding at SS.
No excuse for having Phillips bat cleanup, especially against RH pitching.

Kc61
06-04-2008, 11:47 PM
Don't forget that lineup that sets the Reds up to have less than maximized chances by not utilizing his highest OPB batters, and stunts like sending Dunn who was picked off. Hairston another error on a routine ground ball while a slick fielding shortstop sits. How about having Freel man center when Baker is on record saying that center is a lot of running for a player with past leg problems though Freel had those past leg problems.

Why is it that Baker makes it so easy to criticize him?
Why isn’t harder ?
Who is responsible for that,
the manager himself is.

No excuse for batting Patterson up in the order
No excuse for Hairston not playing the outfield and Janish helping out the pitching by his fielding at SS.
No excuse for having Phillips bat cleanup, especially against RH pitching.

Reason for batting Patterson up in order -- Baker obviously wants to hit EE and Votto lower in the order because they are kids and he doesn't want them in pressure situations. He also thinks that Patterson is due to go on a little hot streak. He also likes speed higher in the order. You may not agree, but it's not irrational.

Reason for not playing Hairston in center -- Dusty wants a plus centerfielder, a key defensive position, when he doesn't have his full starting outfield.

Reason for hitting Phillips cleanup -- Just like Narron did, just like McKannin did, he likes to break up lefties and hit Phillips fourth. If he had a better righty option he might do it differently. Phillips helped key the win tonight and had an .850 OPS coming into the game (after a slump).

Spring~Fields
06-04-2008, 11:49 PM
Come on now. Bako gave the Reds a shot when they needed him most while Ross was out. His defense is a plus and he has handled the young pitchers really well. His bat is what it is. Once again, I am not going to hate the player because Dusty misuses him in situations like tonight when he should have been pinch hit for.

Hairston has been very valuable and plays all over, has hit and run well and has tried his best playing at a position he isn't suited to. I actualy like the guy's contributions so far.

Merck came in and pitched decently. I don't remember him killing the Reds in any games like Lincoln, or Weathers. Besides Mercker wasn't brought back because of Dusty, but because of his ties to the team.

Patterson. Well, I'm not defending this - on Patterson I agree with you. I'd as soon see Dickerson getting his shot but Dusty really seems to have a blind
spot when it comes to Corey.

But has Dusty Baker gave the Reds their best shot throughout when they needed him most to make wise management and player resource decisions througout the season, seems to me to be the real question.

Baker had a blind spot when it came to Jay Bruce too. That injury to Ross that sent Ross to rehab and the DL was disputed by Ross too, that is what opened the door for Bako, I have no idea how Ross and Bruce might have produced for this team, and we will never know who or what players might have been brought in if the unemployed ex-cubs were not given jobs in their place.

guttle11
06-05-2008, 12:01 AM
What is it with (Insert Redzoner here) and Chris Denorfia?

Everyone has guys that they gravitate toward, regardless of what conventional wisdom or numbers say. I'd rather have Dickerson and all, but it's not that big of a deal. Patterson is here for this year and this year only.

Marc D
06-05-2008, 12:05 AM
The team is playing very well so I am not going to sit here and criticize Dusty except to say he can't keep running Patterson out there. Its just not fair to the rest of the team. The man cannot hit MLB pitching and he isn't capable of forming the concept of taking a walk, much less executing it.

I like Dusty sticking with consistent lineuups, I like the way this team is playing, I'm not worried too much about the small tactical errors he may or may not be making. That said, I cannot give anyone a pass that voluntarily uses Patterson and on top of that uses him in the 1 or 2 hole.

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 12:09 AM
Reason for batting Patterson up in order


KC
I know that you are perceptive and observant and do your homework on these players, and that you know that Patterson never was a good leadoff hitter and that Corey himself was covered by Chicago media explaining that he did not like to lead off, and his stats would support that he, Patterson is correct, we also know that Patterson actually had some success batting down in the order.


-- Baker obviously wants to hit EE and Votto lower in the order because they are kids and he doesn't want them in pressure situations.

Perhaps the early reviews on Baker were correct in that he is more of a pro-veteran, anti-young player type of manager. He, Baker certainly did not start the youngest member of the position players in a spot pressure free, by starting Bruce out in the two slot, and not down in the order taking the pressure off of him. I have to believe that the real reason to bat Votto down in the order has to do with his left-right splits after he starts out batting the SS/CF one two regardless of their skill levels to do so effectively. Baker has made himself clear on his need and want for speed in CF, yet he ignores the fact that Patterson might be that man in CF, but he is not that man at the plate. On one hand he makes the claim by using defense as the justification, on the other hand he contradicts his defending the CF rationalizations by not using Janish at shortstop and using Hairston a man that Baker admitted in the media that he did not know if Hairston could play shortstop, but, Hairston said that he could. If the theory is defense in center, it would follow even more that defense is paramount at ss.


He also thinks that Patterson is due to go on a little hot streak. He also likes speed higher in the order.

The rhetoric that Baker uses now with Patterson and Hairston is consistent with what he did in Chicago with Patterson and Hairston, they even sent Patterson down and then back up to bat leadoff after Corey Patterson had a change of mind and heart, seeing the light after he was sent down to AAA.



You may not agree, but it's not irrational. Escalation of commitment is not irrational either but it happens when Baker is looking for a confirmation bias that his choices and decisions are correct in spite of the results.


Reason for not playing Hairston in center -- Dusty wants a plus centerfielder, a key defensive position, when he doesn't have his full starting outfield.

And the reason for not playing Janish at a very key defensive position and reason then, I cannot follow because Bakers words and actions are not supported by each other.


Reason for hitting Phillips cleanup -- Just like Narron did, just like McKannin did, he likes to break up lefties and hit Phillips fourth. If he had a better righty option he might do it differently. Phillips helped key the win tonight and had an .850 OPS coming into the game (after a slump).

What would be wrong with Dunn, Votto, Encarncion or even Bruce in the cleanup spot against RH pitchers? According to the Baker theories?

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 12:17 AM
What is it with (Insert Redzoner here) and Chris Denorfia?

Everyone has guys that they gravitate toward, regardless of what conventional wisdom or numbers say. I'd rather have Dickerson and all, but it's not that big of a deal. Patterson is here for this year and this year only.

That is a presumption that each of us makes, but that is not necessarily true, the fact that Patterson was brought in off the FA unemployment line is indicator enough when coupled with Bakers comments that Patterson very well could be back next year.

Most have said that the FA market is pretty void of talent, and it might not be fast and easy for Jocketty to upgrade his CF positon over the winter, and Patterson could be back as a fourth outfielder too, and end up starting.

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 12:21 AM
So now, in order to criticize Baker, we consider Mercker a Baker ex-Cub favorite? I seem to remember him being an ex Red who played with the team three times, lives nearby and wanted to pitch again with the team.

And Hairston and Bako have made a pretty solid contribution. Bako hit very well early and filled in well when Ross was hurt. He's slumping now, but some of his teammates have also slumped and they are not ex-Cubs.

Patterson started off hot, then went into a deep slump. Baker didn't just keep him -- he sent him to AAA. Only when Freel and Griffey got hurt did Patterson return.

I think the last few weeks have shown that Baker can win when he has the talent. I didn't read all the criticism when Bruce was hitting .600 and the team was winning virtually every home game.

Baker has done very well in the single most important aspect of in game managing, his use of pitchers. The starters are throwing a reasonable number of pitches. Relievers are not being overused. Dusty obviously tries to rest relievers when possible and is very aware of their workload.

KC is that actually your perception that most people are so ignorant and uneducated that they spend their moments looking for a motivation to critcize others? That they have no foundation, and are baseless futile ramblings and the results of the team speak for nothing and have nothing substantive to show without cause or reason? Are you sure, or is that conjecture on your part?

Kc61
06-05-2008, 12:47 AM
KC is that actually your perception that most people are so ignorant and uneducated that they spend their moments looking for a motivation to critcize others? That they have no foundation, and are baseless futile ramblings and the results of the team speak for nothing and have nothing substantive to show without cause or reason? Are you sure, or is that conjecture on your part?

I just think some fans are kind of tough on Baker generally. I think he's a good manager and, particularly of late, has done well with the team. Others are free to disagree and have made some good points in their criticisms.

MasonBuzz3
06-05-2008, 12:57 AM
Was anyone else surprised with Dusty not utilizing the double switch when bring Coco into the game in the 8th? I may be wrong, but I would have replaced Patterson's lineup spot with Janish and moved Hairston to CF, with Janish in at SS. This would have alleviated Coco coming up to the plate with the bases juiced in the 8th. I may be wrong here, but that was my initial feeling when watching the game.

SteelSD
06-05-2008, 01:02 AM
Reason for batting Patterson up in order -- Baker obviously wants to hit EE and Votto lower in the order because they are kids and he doesn't want them in pressure situations.

Yet Jay Bruce, who's barely 22 and younger than either EE or Votto, joins the club and gets the 2-slot during his first game.

The reason Patterson gets PA in the top two slots in the order is because Baker doesn't know any better. Nothing more, nothing less.

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 01:11 AM
I just think some fans are kind of tough on Baker generally. I think he's a good manager and, particularly of late, has done well with the team. Others are free to disagree and have made some good points in their criticisms.

I accept and respect what you are writing and saying, I always have, as you have been one of many of my favorite posters for many years and still are because of your interesting input and feedback.

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 01:12 AM
Yet Jay Bruce, who's barely 22 and younger than either EE or Votto, joins the club and gets the 2-slot during his first game.

The reason Patterson gets PA in the top two slots in the order is because Baker doesn't know any better. Nothing more, nothing less.

There is a history.

This spring
http://washingtonstate.scout.com/a.z?s=137&p=2&c=739067

From 2005
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/content/printer_friendly/chc/y2005/m05/d26/c1063527.jsp
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/content/printer_friendly/chc/y2005/m06/d22/c1100528.jsp
http://www.mlb.com/content/printer_friendly/chc/y2005/m07/d03/c1113783.jsp

oregonred
06-05-2008, 01:21 AM
The reason Patterson gets PA in the top two slots in the order is because Baker doesn't know any better. Nothing more, nothing less.

That about sums it up - unfortunately.

Being down to the 5th OF has brought Patterson back into play. Walt's gonna have to DFA him back to Louisville post haste just to get him away from the Duster.

RedlegJake
06-05-2008, 02:12 AM
They just sent Patterson down. Why not bring Dickerson up for a look-see instead and let CP continue to work on his stroke in AAA? If Dickerson is bad then what have you lost - it would be hard to be worse than CP, and you know better what you have in Dickerson going forward. I totally don't understand the thinking.

redsrule2500
06-05-2008, 02:28 AM
I honestly think he just favors them unfairly.

PuffyPig
06-05-2008, 10:00 AM
Was anyone else surprised with Dusty not utilizing the double switch when bring Coco into the game in the 8th? I may be wrong, but I would have replaced Patterson's lineup spot with Janish and moved Hairston to CF, with Janish in at SS. This would have alleviated Coco coming up to the plate with the bases juiced in the 8th. I may be wrong here, but that was my initial feeling when watching the game.

That's a plausable thing to do, to be sure.

But removing your best defensive player (yes, Patterson is easily the Reds best defensive player) at a time when you are winning 1-0 would be unusual, and it's not like they knew that Cordero would likely be batting with the bases loaded.

As it was,our OF in the 9th was Hairston, Patterson and Bruce. It would have been Dunn, Hairston and Bruce. Big, big difference. And all just becuase we might load the bases in the 9th? That's hindsight managing, IMO.

Chip R
06-05-2008, 10:22 AM
They just sent Patterson down. Why not bring Dickerson up for a look-see instead and let CP continue to work on his stroke in AAA? If Dickerson is bad then what have you lost - it would be hard to be worse than CP, and you know better what you have in Dickerson going forward. I totally don't understand the thinking.


They aren't paying Dickerson $3M a year.

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 11:07 AM
He lets Patterson bat against a LH pitcher in the 8th and he lets Bako hit against a LH pitcher in the 9th? I am just floored here....:eek:

What is it with Baker and his ex-Cubs????

Here's the rest of the story. See Former Cubs cursing other teams :)

Curse of the Billy Goat

The Curse of the Billy Goat is an urban legend concerning various regular-season and postseason woes of the Chicago Cubs, a Major League Baseball team. It explains the Cubs not even reaching the World Series since 1945.


The Curse of "Billy The Goat" Sianis
Main article: Chicago Cubs futility theories

The Curse of the Billy Goat is a curse on the Chicago Cubs that was started in 1945. As the story goes, Billy Sianis, a Greek immigrant (from Paleopyrgos, Greece), who owned a nearby tavern (the now-famous Billy Goat Tavern), had two $7.20 box seat tickets to Game 4 of the 1945 World Series between the Chicago Cubs and the Detroit Tigers, and decided to bring along his pet goat, Murphy (or Sinovia according to some references), which Sianis had restored to health when the goat had fallen off a truck and subsequently limped into his tavern.

The goat wore a blanket with a sign pinned to it which read "We got Detroit's goat". Sianis and the goat were allowed into Wrigley Field and even paraded about on the playing field before the game before ushers intervened and led them off the field. After a heated argument, both Sianis and the goat were permitted to stay in the stadium occupying the box seat for which he had tickets. At this point, Andy Frain (head of Wrigley Field's hired security company at the time), waved the goat's box-seat ticket in the air and proclaimed, "If he eats the ticket that would solve everything." However, the goat did not. Before the game was over, it started to rain and Sianis and the goat were ejected from the stadium at the command of Cubs owner Philip Knight Wrigley due to the animal's objectionable odor of wet goat.

Sianis was outraged at the ejection and allegedly placed a curse upon the Cubs that they would never win another pennant or play in a World Series at Wrigley Field again because the Cubs organization had insulted his goat, and subsequently left the U.S. to vacation in his home in Greece.

The Cubs lost Game 4 and eventually the 1945 World Series, prompting Sianis to write to Wrigley from Greece, saying, "Who stinks now?" Following a third-place finish in the National League in 1946, the Cubs would finish in the league's second division for the next 20 consecutive years. This streak finally ended in 1967, the year after Leo Durocher became the Cub's manager. Since that time, the supposedly cursed Cubs have not won a National League pennant or played in a World Series – the longest pennant drought in Major League history. Sianis died in 1970.

Attempts to break the curse
Sam Sianis, nephew of Billy Sianis, has been brought out on the field with a goat multiple times in attempts to break the curse: on Opening Day in 1984 and 1989 (the Cubs won the division both years), in 1994 to stop a home losing streak, and in 1998 for the wild card play-in game (which the Cubs won).

A group of Cubs fans headed to Houston in 2003 with a Billy Goat named "Virgil Homer" and attempted to gain entrance to Minute Maid Park. After they were denied entrance, they unfurled a scroll and read a verse proclaiming they were "reversing the curse". Houston faded down the stretch allowing the Cubs to win the division that year. The Cubs came within 5 outs of the World Series in 2003, until a fan, Steve Bartman attempted to catch a foul ball, interfering with Moises Alou, who appeared in position to make the play. However, a crucial error by Alex Gonzales later in the inning prevented an inning-ending double play. The Marlins went on to score 8 runs in the inning, to lead 8-3. The Cubs lost that game and the next game to the Florida Marlins, who went on to win the World Series.

Before the 2004 season the Steve Bartman ball was ceremonially destroyed at Harry Caray's Restaurant in Chicago.

In another bizarre twist, it was reported that a butchered goat was hanged from the Harry Caray statue on October 3, 2007, but the Sun-Times noted: "If the prankster intended to reverse the supposed billy goat curse with the stunt, it doesn't appear to have worked."[4] However, the Cubs did win the NL central title in 2007.

The cure
According to three interviews with Sam Sianis, William Sianis' nephew-in-law, the Curse of the famed Billy Goat can only be dispelled by the Chicago Cubs organization by showing a true sincere fondness for goats, allowing them into Wrigley Field because they like them, and not simply for publicity reasons.[5]

Former Cubs who won a World Series title elsewhere
Another factor that may play a role in the curse is the number of players who won World Series titles after leaving the Cubs. These players include Andy Pafko (who, coincidentally, played in the 1945 World Series as a Cub), Gene Baker, Smoky Burgess, Don Hoak, Dale Long, Lou Brock (whose first title was in 1964 after a mid-season trade to the St. Louis Cardinals), Lou Johnson, Jim Brewer, Moe Drabowsky, Don Cardwell, Ken Holtzman, Billy North, Bill Madlock, Manny Trillo, Rick Monday, Burt Hooton, Bruce Sutter, Willie Hernández, Joe Niekro, Dennis Eckersley, Joe Carter, Greg Maddux, Joe Girardi, Glenallen Hill (after his second stint with the Cubs; his title came in 2000 after he'd been traded in mid-season), Luis Gonzalez, Mike Morgan, Mark Grace, Mark Bellhorn and Bill Mueller. Dontrelle Willis and Jon Garland were traded as minor leaguers.

Former Cubs cursing other teams
Main article: Ex-Cubs Factor
Conversely, the "Ex-Cubs Factor" seemed to plague many a post-season qualifier that had too many former Cubs. This theory reached its zenith in 1990, when the factor "predicted" that the Oakland Athletics were "doomed" in that year's World Series, and the A's were swept by the Cincinnati Reds in a stunning upset (coincidentally, then Reds manager, Lou Pinella, is now the Chicago Cubs manager) . In the 2001 World Series, however, the Arizona Diamondbacks faced the Yankees with three ex-Cubs on their roster, and not only won the Series in dramatic fashion, but won it on a rally started by Mark Grace, an ex-Cub, effectively discrediting the "Ex-Cubs" theory.

Boston Red Sox first baseman Bill Buckner, who was blamed for Boston's 1986 World Series loss after a routine ground ball rolled through his legs, was also a former Cub. It has been recently uncovered that at the time of the play (and in many other instances), Buckner was wearing an old and tattered Chicago Cubs batting glove under his fielding glove.

Former Cub pitcher Mike Krukow (who went on to play for the San Francisco Giants and is currently a broadcaster for them) is alleged to be the source of the legendary "Krukow Kurse". The "Krukow Kurse" is used to explain the Giants' fifty-plus year failure to win the World Series while in San Francisco. Before the start of each season, Krukow states his usual optimistic prediction- during his radio show-that the Giants have a chance to ultimately win the World Series. Once Krukow stops making such preseason predictions- says the legend- the Giants will, in fact, win the World Series.

Another former Cub, Mitch Williams, also suffered from the World Series heartbreak in 1993, when he gave up a legendary walk-off home run to Joe Carter of the Toronto Blue Jays in the ninth inning of Game 6, handing the World Championship to Toronto. Williams would then play for the Houston Astros, who missed a possible chance to win the NL pennant due to the 1994 strike. Coincidentally, Carter was also a former Cub, but he and Williams had not been teammates in Chicago.

source: Wikipedia

westofyou
06-05-2008, 11:24 AM
Cubs?

Patterson, Hairston and Patterson are also ex Orioles... any way we can blame that franchise for their performance and their place in the lineup?

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 11:32 AM
Cubs?

Patterson, Hairston and Patterson are also ex Orioles... any way we can blame that franchise for their performance and their place in the lineup?

Orioles :yikes: OMG, gee look what happened to the Orioles,
are the Reds next ? :scared:

Matt700wlw
06-05-2008, 11:34 AM
Amen! We won the game 2-0 and we're complaining?

It's what we do best

*BaseClogger*
06-05-2008, 12:16 PM
Cubs?

Patterson, Hairston and Patterson are also ex Orioles... any way we can blame that franchise for their performance and their place in the lineup?

Two Pattersons!? :yikes:

*BaseClogger*
06-05-2008, 12:17 PM
He also thinks that Patterson is due to go on a little hot streak. He also likes speed higher in the order. You may not agree, but it's not irrational.

IMO, saying Corey Patterson is due to get hot is the definition of irrational...

westofyou
06-05-2008, 12:18 PM
It's what we do best

and most

Spring~Fields
06-05-2008, 12:38 PM
and most

What!! You mean that you don't believe in the curse of the billy goat ? ;)

:fineprint:pimp:

Even with the eerie and ominous warnings within the headlines all season ? :all_cohol :all_cohol :all_cohol

Losing Reds Record 29 31 .483 projecting 78 wins and 84 losses

30 Norris Hopper 15-day Disabled List
6 Ryan Freel 15-day Disabled List
27 Jeff Keppinger 15-day Disabled List
Alex Gonzalez 60-day Disabled List
50 Kent Mercker 60-day Disabled List
33 Josh Fogg 15-day Disabled List

Flu keeps Reds' Encarnacion out of lineup
Griffey sits out third straight start sore left knee

Harang appears affected by relief outing
Another tough-luck loss for Harang A 16-game winner the past two seasons, Harang's record slipped to 2-8

Bailey scuffling at Triple-A Louisville Bailey isn't even near being Triple-A Louisville's best starter. The numbers from Bailey's last three starts aren't pretty. In 14 1/3 innings, he's 0-1 with a 9.42 ERA, 21 hits allowed, 13 walks and 11 strikeouts.

Reds' Hairston out with dehydration
Baker rests slumping Encarnacion
Reds' Baker suspended for two games
Reds' Keppinger fractures left kneecap

Weathers upset by Reds announcer

Ominous pattern: No support for Harang
Reds' Arroyo feels healthy despite slump

After loss, Baker says Arroyo may be hurt
Reds' Cueto hit hard in setback to Mets

Reds were embarrassed when David Ross batted out of order. He batted in Corey Patterson's spot and made an out.

Heart of Reds' lineup not producing
Belisle sent to Minors; Mercker activated Matt Belisle's days as a Reds starting pitcher appear to be over

Krivsky fired
Griffey unfazed by slow start at plate

Matt700wlw
06-05-2008, 12:42 PM
and most

Tru dat 2