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Will M
06-06-2008, 04:14 PM
The Reds obviously have issues. Poor defense. Pitching issues at the 3-5 slots. Weak hitting from Jr and Patterson. Injuries. etc

Looking at the current team:
Starting pitching seems to be something we can fill from within.
Right now we have Volquez-Harang-Arroyo-Cueto-Bailey with Thompson on the doorstep and also Maloney waiting in the wings.
Relief pitching seems ok. Cordero has been good. Burton seems to have gotten over his rough spring. Bray shows more promise than I had hoped for.
Herrara was awesome in his one appearance.
While i expect guys like weathers and affeldt to be here only this year that leaves us with a decent core of relievers for 2009. we can also try to pick up another affeldt type guy in the offseason. Roenike could be in the 2009 pen also.

Dunn needs to be re-signed.
Bruce-Votto-Phillips are set.
EE, Kep, Janish, Gonzo should be able to hold down SS/3B.
Catching is an issue. Unless one falls in our lap we might see another Ross/Bako type situation in 2009. As long as the defense is good I'll be ok with the weak hitting catcher.

Which brings me to the Reds #1 need...an outfielder.
It is debatable whether Junior belongs in RF this year. Some say yes.
Some say no. I am in the no camp. There is little debate on whether Jr will be a Red in 2009-no way. Looking at the current Reds roster/AAA/AA Jerry Hairston is the best Red to play the outfield along with Dunn and Bruce.
While I love seeing a guy like Hairston do well in the bigs after his injuries and struggles I certainly don't want to rely on him for the 2009 outfield.
Other internal options- Patterson, Freel, Hopper, Dickerson,yuck.
Looking at this offseason's free agents I don't see anyone who plays a good RF or CF. I'd like Walt to find someone via trade.
Guys rumored to be available at times are Coco Crisp and Xavier Nady.

What do you think. Am I on track or off base. If you agree who would you like to see the Reds ( realistically ) target.

11larkin11
06-06-2008, 04:16 PM
Keep Bruce in CF for now, move Votto to RF

Degenerate39
06-06-2008, 04:19 PM
Number 1 need- Signing Dunn long term

Number 2- A true leadoff hitter

Number 3- No more Patterson

flyer85
06-06-2008, 04:22 PM
catcher ... the current catchers are all bad and there are no options in the pipeline that figure in before 2011.

OnBaseMachine
06-06-2008, 04:23 PM
Milton Bradley is a guy I'd like to have in center field next season.

As for for the Reds #1 need, I believe that is the catcher position. Paul Bako is old and crashing back to earth very hard. Ross is a horrible defensive catcher as is Javier Valentin. The Reds only legit catching prospect in the system in Devin Mesoraco but he's in Dayton and at least three years away from the majors. IMO catching is the biggest weakness in the organization and it's not even close.

Caveat Emperor
06-06-2008, 04:27 PM
C and SS are both in bad shape -- neither position has anyone in the pipeline and the current candidates are either poor offensively (Ross, Bako, Janish), poor defensively (Keppinger), or just outright poor (Valentin).

Kc61
06-06-2008, 04:29 PM
Reds have a lot of needs, but some are under control. Lots of good starters and relievers in the system so I won't consider that the number one need.

To me, it's a right handed hitter for the middle of the lineup, somebody who hits both lefty and righty pitching well. A guy with power but an all around hitter. Guy would replace Griffey when Griff leaves, likely after this year.

This would add balance to an overly lefty lineup. It would enable the Reds to drop Phillips to sixth in the order against righties.

It could be argued that a lead off guy is more important. I don't see why Keppinger can't be the lead off guy. I see a lineup with

Kepp
Votto
Bruce
New righty bat
Dunn
Phillips
EE
Catcher

The second biggest need is a catcher.

Will M
06-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Milton Bradley is a guy I'd like to have in center field next season.

As for for the Reds #1 need, I believe that is the catcher position. Paul Bako is old and crashing back to earth very hard. Ross is a horrible defensive catcher as is Javier Valentin. The Reds only legit catching prospect in the system in Devin Mesoraco but he's in Dayton and at least three years away from the majors. IMO catching is the biggest weakness in the organization and it's not even close.

my reasoning for saying that an outfielder is needed more than a catcher is the hope that we can fill the catcher position on the cheap.
i don't think the Reds have that much excess talent to trade and if one 'big' deal is made i'd rather it be for an outfielder than a catcher.
the difference offensively between say Yadier Molina and Ross/Bako isn't as great as the difference between a good rightfielder ( says Nady, Fukudome or Corey Hart ) and what the Reds have to offer via in house options.

Will M
06-06-2008, 04:32 PM
Keep Bruce in CF for now, move Votto to RF

I don't think Votto can play RF. I think in a pinch he can play LF but not RF.

Will M
06-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Reds have a lot of needs, but some are under control. Lots of good starters and relievers in the system so I won't consider that the number one need.

To me, it's a right handed hitter for the middle of the lineup, somebody who hits both lefty and righty pitching well. A guy with power but an all around hitter. Guy would replace Griffey when Griff leaves, likely after this year.

This would add balance to an overly lefty lineup. It would enable the Reds to drop Phillips to sixth in the order against righties.

It could be argued that a lead off guy is more important. I don't see why Keppinger can't be the lead off guy. I see a lineup with

Kepp
Votto
Bruce
New righty bat
Dunn
Phillips
EE
Catcher

The second biggest need is a catcher.

you and i are on the same page. i think jocketty needs to either steal this guy via krivsky ( unlikely ) or find a team that wants to move a player for salary reasons. the reds have a lot of money coming off the books and the 2008-2009 free agency class doesn't have a lot to spend it on that fits the Reds need. if a RH hitting quality CF/RF is available at the trade deadline this year the Reds need to pounce.

Spring~Fields
06-06-2008, 04:47 PM
# 1 Defense and bullpen.

We seem to often indicate that our team needs to improve the defense and that it true, yet, we are not really pleased with a defender that canít hit/walk in addition to being a solid defender.

I donít see one number one need because the team is unit dependent to perform well as an aggregate.

I would have to agree with those that see the need for better options with the ability to hit at SS, C, 3B and of course the outfield in either right field or center. I mean if you are serious about upgrading. Of course I donít know where Jocketty will find those, but I believe that he can in time or sooner.

We still have witnessed some breakdowns in the bullpen, even though they have improved, it can be better, there is still an indication for the need for some in the bullpen that can be depended upon to shut down the other side, especially in close games. The quality bullpen members are important with the Reds having good young pitchers that will only go 6-7 innings, and that sometimes have their downs along with the ups, and a relief core will have to come in early at times.

I as a fan could live with only half of the needs being improved between now and spring 09.

jesusfan
06-06-2008, 04:48 PM
I would love Yonder to rake and move up quickly... Hopefully Votto can learn RF during the off-season... What a line-up this would be.

1. Keppinger SS
2. Votto RF
3. Bruce CF
4. Phillips 2nd
5. Dunn LF
6. Alonso 1st
7. Encarnacion 3rd
8. Ross/Bako C
9. Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Bailey/Thompson

Will M
06-06-2008, 05:01 PM
# 1 Defense and bullpen.

We seem to often indicate that our team needs to improve the defense and that it true, yet, we are not really pleased with a defender that canít hit/walk in addition to being a solid defender.

I donít see one number one need because the team is unit dependent to perform well as an aggregate.

I would have to agree with those that see the need for better options with the ability to hit at SS, C, 3B and of course the outfield in either right field or center. I mean if you are serious about upgrading. Of course I donít know where Jocketty will find those, but I believe that he can in time or sooner.



i agree in general. i think where reds fans have been burned recently is being sold an ok defender as a gold glover. a true plus defender at C/SS/CF does not have to OPS .800

i know i have been a Jr hater but when he is gone if replaced with someone like say Corey Hart or Xavier Nady the offense and defense will improve.

i for one am not a fan of EE. i would prefer Kep at 3B with a glove at SS.
i know i am in the minority here.
defensively a lineup of Dunn-Bruce-RF-Kep-Janish-Phillips-Votto-C would hopefully have only one weak spot ( Dunn ). if a right fielder who can hit is obtained somehow then i think the offense would be ok.

RedsManRick
06-06-2008, 05:18 PM
The most pressing need is a RH bat than can OPS .850 plus at either RF, 3B, or C. Right now, the offense is dragging largely due to he non-performances of EE and Junior. Junior is clearly on the way out and I think you can essentially say that you're replacing Junior's bat with Bruce's. But that's just treading water.

Catcher has been a hole and realistically, it's not likely to ever be an offensive asset.

Basically, on a realistic, short term bases, this team needs EE to start hitting. That's it. I could list out a dozen possibilities and configurations, but it's not that difficult. Given our defensive problems, we cannot have an offensive black hole at 3B. Catcher is understandable, as is CF. But EE needs to step it up.

Spring~Fields
06-06-2008, 05:40 PM
i agree in general. i think where reds fans have been burned recently is being sold an ok defender as a gold glover. a true plus defender at C/SS/CF does not have to OPS .800

I have to agree with your points here that those positions don’t have to OPS .800 or higher to be of real value and substantial assets to the team.


i know i have been a Jr hater but when he is gone if replaced with someone like say Corey Hart or Xavier Nady the offense and defense will improve.

I have to believe that finances, cost benefit vs. risk analysis relating to his 16 million dollar contract next year will mandate that Griffey Jr. will move on and that his knee problems this year will prohibit moving him during this 2008 season.

Corey Hart 26 years old, 3 year splits 05-07 .284 .340 .506 .846, fielding Total as LF .975 Total as CF .979, Total as RF .991. Appears to be a decent answer.
Xavier Nady 29, 3 year split 2005-2007 .274 .330 .457 .787, fielding Total .985, I am not sold on Nady

Though I like the potential for one that the board has shown some interest in if LA would trade him, big “if”, Matt Kemp 23 years old 3 yr splits .312 .344 .496 .840, fielding total as RF .970, can still improve.



i for one am not a fan of EE. i would prefer Kep at 3B with a glove at SS.
i know i am in the minority here.
defensively a lineup of Dunn-Bruce-RF-Kep-Janish-Phillips-Votto-C would hopefully have only one weak spot ( Dunn ). if a right fielder who can hit is obtained somehow then i think the offense would be ok.

I agree with the above. I would like for Jocketty to look for an upgrade over EE, I can live with Keppinger if the other spots are improved. I don’t know where the upgrade at catcher is with the limited amount of good ones.


I had it in my mind that Orlando Hudson the second baseman for Arizona was going to be a FA and I wanted Jocketty to go after him and to move Phillips to short, but the board doesn’t seem to like the idea, so I thought perhaps the board is right.

Hudson listed as being 30 brings a gold glove, a better defense to support the pitching and .280 .345 .435 .779 career batting. Of course I believe that Phillips can field SS, we already know what Phillips can bring offensively even though he is still growing as a player and I don’t think has hit his peak yet.

Will M
06-06-2008, 05:51 PM
I have to agree with your points here that those positions donít have to OPS .800 or higher to be of real value and substantial assets to the team.



I have to believe that finances, cost benefit vs. risk analysis relating to his 16 million dollar contract next year will mandate that Griffey Jr. will move on and that his knee problems this year will prohibit moving him during this 2008 season.

Corey Hart 26 years old, 3 year splits 05-07 .284 .340 .506 .846, fielding Total as LF .975 Total as CF .979, Total as RF .991. Appears to be a decent answer.
Xavier Nady 29, 3 year split 2005-2007 .274 .330 .457 .787, fielding Total .985, I am not sold on Nady

Though I like the potential for one that the board has shown some interest in if LA would trade him, big ďifĒ, Matt Kemp 23 years old 3 yr splits .312 .344 .496 .840, fielding total as RF .970, can still improve.




I agree with the above. I would like for Jocketty to look for an upgrade over EE, I can live with Keppinger if the other spots are improved. I donít know where the upgrade at catcher is with the limited amount of good ones.


I had it in my mind that Orlando Hudson the second baseman for Arizona was going to be a FA and I wanted Jocketty to go after him and to move Phillips to short, but the board doesnít seem to like the idea, so I thought perhaps the board is right.

Hudson listed as being 30 brings a gold glove, a better defense to support the pitching and .280 .345 .435 .779 career batting. Of course I believe that Phillips can field SS, we already know what Phillips can bring offensively even though he is still growing as a player and I donít think has hit his peak yet.

1. i suggested Phillips to SS since I think Kep's best position is 2B and i was shot down also

2. i doubt LA would trade Kemp but an acquisition like that would be awesome. i think that Phillip's should be hitting low in the lineup vs RHP and EE is erratic. a RH power hitter who can hit somewhere 3-4-5 would be great

Spring~Fields
06-06-2008, 06:00 PM
1. i suggested Phillips to SS since I think Kep's best position is 2B and i was shot down also

2. i doubt LA would trade Kemp but an acquisition like that would be awesome. i think that Phillip's should be hitting low in the lineup vs RHP and EE is erratic. a RH power hitter who can hit somewhere 3-4-5 would be great

I think that we are shot down on moving Phillips to ss because at this time the Reds would be taking some risk, when they know how good Phillips is at 2B. Moving Phillips to ss might be looked upon differently if the Reds had another outstanding position player to take his place at second.

I have my doubts too on Kemp from LA, I don't know, but perhaps Jocketty could move some pitching packaged with some side item players. I don't know the Dodgers biggest needs to encourage them or if the Reds could help them.

RedsManRick
06-06-2008, 06:06 PM
I think a decent, quite realistic move as a short term solution for RF would be to acquire Matt Murton from the Cubs. He's especially potent against lefties, wouldn't be very expensive, and wouldn't be hard to move on from if and when a better option comes along.

Will M
06-06-2008, 06:10 PM
I think a decent, quite realistic move as a short term solution for RF would be to acquire Matt Murton from the Cubs. He's especially potent against lefties, wouldn't be very expensive, and wouldn't be hard to move on from if and when a better option comes along.

i was all for a Freel for Murton swap last winter. i don't know why the cubs are down on him. if the reds could get a guy like him it would help the 2008 reds and if he plays well the 2009 reds also. a plus for some is that we could keep Jr since Bobby C and a lot of fans seem to want him to stay until the end of the year.

Reds1
06-06-2008, 06:56 PM
catcher ... the current catchers are all bad and there are no options in the pipeline that figure in before 2011.

The problem is these is a week position offensively accross the league. Be nice to have a McCann, Soto, but the fact is not much out there so I see this position being an issue for awhile, but really and truly not sure how bad the guys we have our. Good defense and call a good game. At this point you can live with that with the studs we have. I'd like to see another outfielder and possibly another starter. Not sure all these young guys will be ready and all together next year. Amazing to think Arroyo is trade fodder when he was considered #2 or at the very least #4 after the rookies going into the season.

RedsManRick
06-06-2008, 07:02 PM
i was all for a Freel for Murton swap last winter. i don't know why the cubs are down on him. if the reds could get a guy like him it would help the 2008 reds and if he plays well the 2009 reds also. a plus for some is that we could keep Jr since Bobby C and a lot of fans seem to want him to stay until the end of the year.

Maybe they'd be interested in Belisle, Fogg, or Weathers? With Edmonds, Johnson, Theriot, Fontenot, Cedeno, DeRosa, Pie, Fuld, etc. they're really pretty set in the OF/MI.

GAC
06-06-2008, 07:06 PM
If we could find a way to get Bay from Pitt that would solve an OF slot, as well as a RH'd power bat. But he is a LFer. He's an FA after next season, and looking at Pitt's inability (or unwillingness) to give out big money, a deal that is mutually beneficial to both teams might void the "division rival" issue.

So if you could make the deal, would you convert him to RF and keep Bruce in center?

But IMO, that would be one productive OF.

Wanna improve your "up the middle" defense? I don't see much, as far as the future market goes, on availability of "sound" well-rounded SS's. And we don't have anything in the system readily showing itself to be available. Janish is the closest we have from a defensive standpoint; but his bat is questionable.

Move Phillips to SS and make Keppinger your 2Bman, which, over his total career, has been his primary (most suitable) position IMO.

And catching is another problematic area to try and fill when one looks at market availability. Most teams have gone to some sort of platoon in this position.

Marc D
06-06-2008, 07:06 PM
Fix SS and CF with two guys who can hit 1-2 and play above average defense and we can live with no offense from our catchers. In fact if we had that, I'd say this team is ready to compete now.

There are no options in house that can fix these two spots. Our in house options that can either be a good offensive or defensive fit for these positions will make a pretty decent bench.

How WJ improves this area without crippling us in another will be the key to our future growth imo.

mth123
06-06-2008, 10:01 PM
Team needs a solid OF that can catch a fly ball who is not an automatic out.

The Reds have a high offense, defense challenged LF who is the key to the offense and must play and a mega prospect who seems to be all he was advertised and more.

The other choices are a guy who should be a platoon DH who only plays against RH (and never again in the field), a speedy 5th OF type who can no longer hit, two converted IF who can outrun many of their mistakes but have no instincts and no track record that says they can play regularly, and an OBP challenged career minor leaguer who seems to be injured indefinitely.

Choices are to kill the pitching staff for a little (but not a lot of) offense, an automatic out who can actually play the position well enough to make the LF liveable, or two ticking time bombs who the clock can strike midnight on at any time (neither of whom dazzle defensively themselves).

Mario-Rijo
06-06-2008, 10:33 PM
We need to trade EE (even though I would rather trade someone else) to LAA in some kind of package for Willits (CF/leadoff) and Izturis (SS/2 hole). It improves the offense and defense.

Willits CF
Izturis SS
Dunn LF
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Keppinger 3B
Ross/Bako C

oregonred
06-06-2008, 11:49 PM
Personally I'm never worried about finding an OF that can post some numbers. If that's the biggest gap then this team is in great shape. The Reds always seem to be able to find OF production and with GABP will never be short of repalcement level + offense at any position.

For a franchise short of pitching for a generation and then some I would never trade picthing for OF production.

This team is coming together. Staff ERA is now down to 4.33 and that includes two months of 9 ERA innings from the #5 Fogg/Belisle black hole.

mth123
06-07-2008, 07:32 AM
We need to trade EE (even though I would rather trade someone else) to LAA in some kind of package for Willits (CF/leadoff) and Izturis (SS/2 hole). It improves the offense and defense.

Willits CF
Izturis SS
Dunn LF
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Keppinger 3B
Ross/Bako C

I'd do that deal. Not sure why the Angels want EdE though. Brandon Wood is their man down the road and they have Chone Figgins. Willits and Izturis are expendable (Willits more so IMO), but I think they'd rather deal Rivera than Willits and they would want a return that fills more of a need for them. Unless Figgins is out for a long time (and he's due back soon) I doubt that EdE would play there. They probably would want Bray or Affeldt. They need a LH relief pitcher for late in the game. Doubt they could get Izturis for one of them straight up. Maybe Willits for Bray would work. The Angels may want to keep Izturis around. He's a good insurance poilicy for the entire IF and with Figgins able to move around the OF as well. They may be ok moving Izturis and plugging Sean Rodriguez in that role.

I think the Reds could get Willits though. With Herrera, Maloney, Jukich, Pelland, Viola, Wood all inthe system maybe the Reds could afford to let Bray or Affeldt go. I think Affeldt is one of their main guys in the pen and Bray still could be. I personally would have no problem if the Reds dealt Bray and called up Herrera. I'd try to keep Affeldt though. OTOH, if this is a punt year, Affeldt is probably gone after the season and Bray may be a piece for the future. I'd still deal him to settle CF. I think a Dunn, Willits, Bruce OF would be a nice OF right now and Griffey would have to be a PH.