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View Full Version : Francisco Cordero Save %



DTCromer
06-08-2008, 04:07 AM
Out of everyone with 17 or more save opportunities, Francisco has the 3rd worst save % in the majors.

Guess who's 1 and 2?

Jason Isringhausen and Eric Gagne. In case you've been living in a cave, both of those guys lost their closers jobs. Now, do I think Francisco deserves to lose his? No, but would we really be in that worse of shape if David Weathers was still our closer? The scary answer is no. I think we can all thank Wayne for overpaying another player on this team.

So I ask, is he really worth 46 million dollars?

UK Reds Fan
06-08-2008, 06:08 AM
No he is not worth that contract...not that a closer isn't/wasn't helpful. But we've had as much trouble getting a game to closer as much as closing it out. We'll be hard presssed to make that contract work in years 3 and 4. And given that we aren't competing in year 1 of that contract...why do it?

Simply, Krivsky struggled so much to spend contract for pitching. Cordero will go as non helpful as helpful in the end given his contract.

Jones1
06-08-2008, 08:15 AM
All I know is Cody Ross owns Cordero. Youd think Cordero wouldnt keep throwing fastballs to the guy after the last time he hit a 9th inning homer off of him at gabp on a fastball, its rediculous!

big boy
06-08-2008, 08:45 AM
Cordero is much better than Weathers. Worth 46 for 4 years? No, but we knew Kriv overpaid when that deal was signed.

TN Red Fan
06-08-2008, 10:04 AM
Let me go into everything wrong with this deliberately manipulative thread...

1. First off, Cordero only has 15 save opportunities.
2. You're taking a small sample right after a blown save. Before last night, Corder's save% was 86%, which was middle-of-the-pack. That's probably where it will be at the end of the season.
3. He has 3 blown saves. Last year the team had 27 blown saves.
4. Weathers has been in AAA most of the year. Without him and Cordero, our only decent relief pitchers all year would have been Burton and Affeldt. That means more innings for Coffey, Lincoln, etc. How many games would the bullpen have blown then?!
5. Cordero was the best closer on the market.
6. Cordero's ERA is 2.93 (season high?). Weathers ERA is 4.15. Based on that, Weathers probably would have blown more saves than Cordero by this point.
7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.
8. Cordero is 9 out of 17 in ERA for closers over 15 saves, which is more telling than blown saves, because it reflects how well he's pitched overall. Blown saves is can be influenced by whether you happen to pitch in closer games (INOW, a 3-run lead is easier to save than a 1-run lead, and that's not reflected in the BS stat.)


Yeah, we overpaid for Cordero. Everybody knew that right after the contract was announced. But his performance this year is right on pace with his recent career, so I don't see how anybody can all of the sudden have a problem with him.

Redeye fly
06-08-2008, 10:22 AM
Overpaid?

Yeah I'm sure he probably is.

But come on, he's the best true closer the Reds have had, in terms of lights out stuff since Rob Dibble's hey day. Although you could arguably say Scott Williamson was of that ilk as well, but Willy was always a walk waiting to happen or a Tommy John operation waiting to happen.

If you honestly think we'd do just as well with Weathers, well I'm sure you won't have a whole lot of company in the line you're standing in.

Redeye fly
06-08-2008, 10:23 AM
Let me go into everything wrong with this deliberately manipulative thread...

1. First off, Cordero only has 15 save opportunities.
2. You're taking a small sample right after a blown save. Before last night, Corder's save% was 86%, which was middle-of-the-pack. That's probably where it will be at the end of the season.
3. He has 3 blown saves. Last year the team had 27 blown saves.
4. Weathers has been in AAA most of the year. Without him and Cordero, our only decent relief pitchers all year would have been Burton and Affeldt. That means more innings for Coffey, Lincoln, etc. How many games would the bullpen have blown then?!
5. Cordero was the best closer on the market.
6. Cordero's ERA is 2.93 (season high?). Weathers ERA is 4.15. Based on that, Weathers probably would have blown more saves than Cordero by this point.
7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.
8. Cordero is 9 out of 17 in ERA for closers over 15 saves, which is more telling than blown saves, because it reflects how well he's pitched overall. Blown saves is can be influenced by whether you happen to pitch in closer games (INOW, a 3-run lead is easier to save than a 1-run lead, and that's not reflected in the BS stat.)


Yeah, we overpaid for Cordero. Everybody knew that right after the contract was announced. But his performance this year is right on pace with his recent career, so I don't see how anybody can all of the sudden have a problem with him.

Nice post

Jones1
06-08-2008, 10:26 AM
Cordero is worth his weight in gold totally agreed and no one has taken the loss last night harder than himself. He's a gamer and thats probable why he did throw the fastball again to Ross, he wanted to show him up. How much ya wanna bet when that match up happens again Ross gets a steady diet of sliders and change ups and whiffs! Cordero just has to learn not to throw fastballs to that guy, even at 97.

Big Hurt
06-08-2008, 10:56 AM
Was it Arroyo who threw the fastball to the pitcher for a single and an RBI? Although he grooved one to the pitcher, we have to remember most major leaguers can hit good fastballs - even if they are 97 mph. Change of speed is the trick to keep them guessing and off balance. Ross guessed right and it was checkmate. It appears that CoCo should have stayed with his breaking stuff on this batter. He had him overmatched as did Bronson with the pitcher - poor pitch selection will cause problems. I wonder if Ross made that call or if it was CoCo? Something to ponder....

DTCromer
06-08-2008, 12:02 PM
7. Isringhausen's save% is 64%, Gagne's in 66%. Cordero's is 80% right after a BS. Most closers' are around 85%, where Cordero's been all year, so he's basically average.

Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.

Jones1
06-08-2008, 12:19 PM
Was it Arroyo who threw the fastball to the pitcher for a single and an RBI? Although he grooved one to the pitcher, we have to remember most major leaguers can hit good fastballs - even if they are 97 mph. Change of speed is the trick to keep them guessing and off balance. Ross guessed right and it was checkmate. It appears that CoCo should have stayed with his breaking stuff on this batter. He had him overmatched as did Bronson with the pitcher - poor pitch selection will cause problems. I wonder if Ross made that call or if it was CoCo? Something to ponder....

I agree, and as I said the last homer at gabp by Ross in the ninth to tie the game was off a fastball. cordero remembered that and instead of throwing the offspeed stuff he got a lil cocky and threw him a fastball as If to say you cant do it again. Im sure the next time Cordero faces him he'll learn his lesson "Ross is a fastball hitter". Throw the kitchen sink but dont throw the fastball...

Jones1
06-08-2008, 12:23 PM
If Ross is in the lineup Harang will deal with him easily because he locates and changes speeds well. I really hope Ross starts cause he's got a bulls eye on him and when I say that I mean a strike out bulls eye!

bluesanta
06-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.

Krivsky made that deal, he's gone now. Would Jocketty have made that same move? I doubt it, definetly with that price tag. However, I am perfectly fine with having Cordero as our closer. Blown saves happen, it's baseball.

Griffey012
06-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Let's say tonight in the 9th inning we are up by 1 run with runners on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out, who are you gonna feel most comfortable with bringing in. Cordero is a no brainer for me ever after last night, he is our closer, has good stuff, throws gas and is far better than anything we have had. Forget about what happened last night, it sucks and hurts, but lets get behind our players when they mess up for once.

Kiko
06-08-2008, 12:36 PM
I checked Cordero's lifetime stats and he is going to blow some saves as does everyone. For his career, Cordero has converted 79.4% of his save opportunities (including this season). So, if he gets 50 save opportunities this year expect about another 7 blown saves.

For the last 5 years the league leader in saves has converted 87%, 90%, 87%, 93% and 100% (Gagne) of their save opportunities. So Cordero is not bad nor is he great but he does provide some stability for the bullpen which has been missing the last 3 years. You have to go back to 2004 when Danny Graves saved 41 games out of 50.

Ghosts of 1990
06-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Coco is a decent closer, he's pitched well; but he'd be one of the first I'd try to move.

TN Red Fan
06-08-2008, 02:51 PM
Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.

Closer isn't a position. The position is relief pitcher. Closers are just the cream of the crop as far a relief pitchers go.

An average closer is one of the 10-15 best relief pitchers in baseball. That's what we payed $46 million for and that's about the going rate. You can argue that closers in general aren't worth what they're payed, but we were in a desperate situation. Our bullpen was horrible in 07. We needed somebody to stabilize it, and I'd say Cordero's delivered exactly that.

Cordero is worth $35-$40 million in my book, but that's only to a competitive team. We overpaid because of our situation and the skin-thin pitching market last year. WKs only mistake was overestimating our chances to compete, but he was feeling pressure from ownership to win now, so the move made sense in that context.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-08-2008, 04:19 PM
Awesome. We paid an average closer 46 million dollars.

Then again, you have to overpay to get even decent pitchers to come here, because of the bidding war of large market teams, the fact this team is rarely competitve and players want to go to a competitive team, and the GRAND idea of building a stadium that is a launching pad for whatever comes off the bat.

How many players are going to say:

"Hey this Cincy club is offering me average pay to come to a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in over a decade, and hasn't had a winning team in almost as long. Not only that but I get to play in a launching pad for a stadium that will no doubt inflate my ERA, not to mention if I'm lucky, on any given night there will be enough fans there to make it halfway full. Where do I sign up!"

Hmm ... and you wonder exactly why you have to offer good chunks of money to get players?

ChatterRed
06-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Without looking at stats, I feel alot more comfortable with our bullpen this year than in years previous.

It was a tough loss. It happens.