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View Full Version : Could Harang lose 20 games this season?



realreds1
06-08-2008, 03:10 PM
It might seem like a stretch... or does it? Thoughts?

TheBigLebowski
06-08-2008, 03:16 PM
Well, he wasn't getting W's when he was pitching well. Now that he's pitching horribly, yeah, I could see him pulling an Anthony Young this season.

forfreelin04
06-08-2008, 03:34 PM
I've noticied a definite change in Harang's mechanies since the bullpen escapade. I did not see this, but I've seen every start since.

He's not pushing off the rubber with the same force off his back foot. This is causing his pitches to flatten out in the zone. (Two hanging sliders to Hanley) If you watch him before you will see much more of a forceful motion towards the plate, with his back leg. This force from the leg brings the whole body into motion with the arm provided more torque for a faster and of course thus more rotation on the ball.

Now Harang seems to be holding something back, when he pushes off their is nothing with it. He ends up standing almost straight up out of the windup.

I will go out on a limb and say he his hurt. Sadly, the Reds don't know this yet.

Blue
06-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Harang was pretty frustrated today after that first run scored. First of all, the guy never should have been on base because he swing and missed for strike three at a slider that then it him. Then they failed to get a double play when Bruce caught the second out. Then David Ross decided he could run faster than Dunn's throw home, so he went way up the line to catch the ball (the throw was off, but he had a better chance at getting the out of he caught the ball and lunged for the plate).

After that, he started raring back and throwing 94 mph, overthrowing everything, and they started crushing him.

He lost his poise after that first run scored, but you can imagine why when the offense repeatedly fails to score runs for him.

captainmorgan07
06-08-2008, 03:46 PM
He just needs to get back on track. All year he's been giving up alot of 0-2 hits. It might just be an off year pitchers sometimes do have those. Look at Verlander in Detroit he's having the same problems.

DTCromer
06-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Where are all the "Harang for Cy Young" threads at?

Slyder
06-08-2008, 05:42 PM
Dusty Baker, The gift that keeps on giving. Attempt to screw up your 2 aces for a game in May when youre already pretty much out of it. If Harang's hurt and it can be attributed to that outing then Dusty ought to feel the heat the rest of the year or someone brought in (Leo Mazzone?) to oversee pitchers use because there is zero reason to risk em.

After Dusty screwed up using Fogg and ran out of pitchers we should have done like little league "who wants to pitch" and punted that game for the sake of the pitchers remaining.

DTCromer
06-08-2008, 07:25 PM
Dusty Baker, The gift that keeps on giving. Attempt to screw up your 2 aces for a game in May when youre already pretty much out of it. If Harang's hurt and it can be attributed to that outing then Dusty ought to feel the heat the rest of the year or someone brought in (Leo Mazzone?) to oversee pitchers use because there is zero reason to risk em.

After Dusty screwed up using Fogg and ran out of pitchers we should have done like little league "who wants to pitch" and punted that game for the sake of the pitchers remaining.

So what did you think about his last performance against Philadelphia? Giving up 3 runs in 7 innings was obviously Dusty's fault. Not to mention Harang wasn't exactly "great" in some of his starts leading up to the that bullpen session.

JWP
06-08-2008, 08:26 PM
Dusty Baker, The gift that keeps on giving. Attempt to screw up your 2 aces for a game in May when youre already pretty much out of it. If Harang's hurt and it can be attributed to that outing then Dusty ought to feel the heat the rest of the year or someone brought in (Leo Mazzone?) to oversee pitchers use because there is zero reason to risk em.

After Dusty screwed up using Fogg and ran out of pitchers we should have done like little league "who wants to pitch" and punted that game for the sake of the pitchers remaining.


Volquez seems to be doing fine, and he's a young guy, not an established 200+ innings pitcher like Harang is. If anyone should be suffering from the 18 inning game, I would expect it to be Volquez, but he's just peachy.

People around here are far too eager to push all the blame Dusty Baker's way. It gets somewhat annoying. Long games are hard on a pitching staff, no matter what team it is, or who's managing. Get over it. Dusty may not be the best choice to manage this team, but I can't think of other managers that wouldn't have done something similar in a game like that.

Harang had a 2.98 ERA in April, a 4.98 ERA in May, and now a 6.99 ERA in June. His fastball is topping off at 89-90, instead 92-93. He's been getting progressively worse over the course of the season. Something is wrong with him, not Dusty Baker.

Nuxhall41
06-08-2008, 11:39 PM
He's been demoralized by the lack of run support. Things snowball on bad teams. Just as confidence is contagious on good teams, insecurity is contagious on bad teams.

Hondo
06-09-2008, 08:50 AM
Dusty Baker, The gift that keeps on giving. Attempt to screw up your 2 aces for a game in May when youre already pretty much out of it. If Harang's hurt and it can be attributed to that outing then Dusty ought to feel the heat the rest of the year or someone brought in (Leo Mazzone?) to oversee pitchers use because there is zero reason to risk em.

After Dusty screwed up using Fogg and ran out of pitchers we should have done like little league "who wants to pitch" and punted that game for the sake of the pitchers remaining.

Why can't the Reds make a Great HIRE for once? Sweet Lou is available and they go with there Stand IN, then after Lou is Hired by Chicago... FIRE they guy that wasn't going to last anyway... Now with Dusty Baker who I feel besides making some BONE-Head moves (Corey, Double Switches Bob Boone style, Leaving pitchers in sometimes too long), will be able to Manage this team to LONG term success...

But now, Leo Mazzone is out there in a Booth... available... and the Reds go with Dick Pole? Come on! They have a Great Group of young Pitchers and the Best man for the JOB is available, and they aren't out there trying to nab him... I mean, make Dick Pole the Bench Coach, and hire Leo Mazzone!!!!

Oh, and Hire Hal McCrae to be the Hitting Coach.

Kingspoint
06-10-2008, 06:10 AM
There are a million ways to judge a pitcher, but I'm completely satisfied at looking at their OPS against. It tells me how hard they're getting pounded.

For a starter in the last few years in the National League, if you have an opposing OPS under .710 you're doing very, very well and are good enough to be an Ace of a staff. Harang is usually under that. His OPS was .690 last year, good for 9th best among NL starters that qualified at the end of the season with enough innings. And that's about what he was last year...somewhere between the 5th and 13th best pitcher in the National League, but probably closer to the 5th.

What's going on with him this year? His opposing OPS is .805! 38th among starters of which there are only 55 pitchers who qualify as starters (based on number of innings pitched). It's the same park as before. The defense is worse than in the past though as they are always having a SS-de-jour, and RF keeps getting slower, and 1B has a rookie. But, that isn't enough to make up for an opposing OPS of .805. It's not a small sample size. It's 94 Innings pitched, or about 40% of a "Harang" season.

Dick Pole is supposed to know what's going on. If he doesn't then nobody does. Is anyone trying to get Pole to let us know what it is?

Something's going on.

FWIW, Arroyo's opposing OPS is .903. That's dead last. Third to last is .860. Zito is .890. That's a fireable offense. That should be getting him shut down.

Also, Cueto is .815. Only 13 starters who pitch regularly are worse than that. That's OK, though. He's a rookie and it's to be expected. He's actually doing very well for a rookie as young as he is.

If someone can "quote" some insight from Dick Pole about what's going on here, it would be very much appreciated. Otherwise, there's just a bunch of wasted speculating going on.

bubbachunk
06-10-2008, 08:39 AM
I doubt it, although he may get to 12