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View Full Version : Red Sox interested in Dunn?



sonny
06-09-2008, 11:36 AM
mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com)


Barry Bonds is not a consideration for Boston even if David Ortiz's injury becomes long-term. Rosenthal believes Adam Dunn could be on the radar under that scenario.

Although I don;t see anything coming from this, but would they part with Ellsbury?

kaldaniels
06-09-2008, 11:39 AM
mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com)



Although I don;t see anything coming from this, but would they part with Ellsbury?

Would Dunn put the Red Sox on his "list"???

Degenerate39
06-09-2008, 11:40 AM
mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com)



Although I don;t see anything coming from this, but would they part with Ellsbury?

I don't see them parting with Ellsbury. He's pretty much their version of Jay Bruce.

sonny
06-09-2008, 11:42 AM
Would Dunn put the Red Sox on his "list"???

Hmmmm, with that short right field and a history of winning? Yeah, probably not.:p:

Jpup
06-09-2008, 11:47 AM
I don't see them parting with Ellsbury. He's pretty much their version of Jay Bruce.

He's nothing like Jay Bruce. He may be Johnny Damon, but he's no Jay Bruce.

RedsManRick
06-09-2008, 11:49 AM
I don't see them parting with Ellsbury. He's pretty much their version of Jay Bruce.

Think Johnny Damon with a touch less power.

kaldaniels
06-09-2008, 11:56 AM
Hmmmm, with that short right field and a history of winning? Yeah, probably not.:p:

No,no...he may put awful teams on that list so that he can't/won't be traded. There are 2 ways to look at the situation. He may be looking for leverage.

lollipopcurve
06-09-2008, 12:06 PM
he may put awful teams on that list so that he can't/won't be traded. There are 2 ways to look at the situation. He may be looking for leverage.

I'm guessing that's what he does. He's got a young family, and his child has a newly discovered medical condition. The Dunns will likely want to do what they can to stay put for now.

blumj
06-09-2008, 12:15 PM
He may be looking for leverage.
That's usually the purpose of a no trade clause. You'd have to think he'd be most likely to use it to ensure he's only traded to a team that's willing to give him a big contract extension as the condition to waive it. Unless David Ortiz(or Manny Ramirez) is out of the picture permanently, that's not likely to be the Red Sox. Although, I suppose it's possible he'd be willing to waive it just for a bonus if he intends to go out on the free agent market anyway.

REDREAD
06-09-2008, 12:27 PM
It's hard to try to read Dunn's mind.

He has said that he's tired of the constant rumors about being traded, so I tend to think that he will do his best to leverage his no trade clause to stay put.

The only exception I see is that perhaps there's a team like Houston/Texas/whoever that he really wants to play for and extend with. Perhaps then he'd accept. I think he may actually be able to get a bigger contract that way. Once a team has dealt prospects for him, they are probably going to be more highly motivated to extend him and may be willing to pay more...

RedsManRick
06-09-2008, 12:29 PM
Assuming Ellsbury is not available, I wonder if a Crisp/Lowrie/Bard for Dunn/Weathers type deal would fly.

Any shot at Bowden or Masterson?

Of course, it's doubtful the Sox would be interested in signing Dunn long term, so I'm sure that would factor in to their offer.

redsmetz
06-09-2008, 12:40 PM
Cot's says the provision in his contract which kicks in on June 15th is a limited no trade clause "allowing Dunn specify 10 clubs to which he would accept a trade." As I've understood it, he has either given them that list or will have to give them that list when the limited clause takes effect. Someone can correct me if that's I'm wrong. And I still don't buy the Redszone red herring that he'll name clubs that can't afford him so the Reds are forced to keep him and let him walk. It just strikes me as implausible.

RedlegJake
06-09-2008, 12:42 PM
I think any player would be okay with going to the Sox for a chance at a ring even if it was clear they weren't looking to sign you long term. I mean Dunn could play a half season in Boston, end up in the Series, then hit the FA market for a big payday. Hard to envision Adam blocking a Boston trade. He'd have everything going for him in that scenario.

It's hard to see what the Reds would get out of it if Boston isn't interested in him long term. Certainly they aren't giving up any of their core, including Ellsbury. If there are any legs to this story then it would be a couple of prospects or if the Reds are out of their minds and desperate for a CFer, Crisp and a couple prospects.

flyer85
06-09-2008, 12:43 PM
And I still don't buy the Redszone red herring that he'll name clubs that can't afford him so the Reds are forced to keep him and let him walk. It just strikes me as implausible.the reason he names clubs that won't want him is NOT so the Reds are forced to keep him, it is so he can control where he is traded(by having to waive his no-trade).

OnBaseMachine
06-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Any deal involving Dunn to the Red Sox would have to involve Michael Bowden or Justin Masterson to the Reds IMO. Brandon Moss and Jed Lowrie would be other prospects I'd like to see thrown in.

fearofpopvol1
06-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I don't know that Dunn would want to go to Boston. You see how often Reds fans can be frustrated with Dunn. Imagine the Boston fans.

If this scenario were true, I think Rick's proposed trade would probably be the most realistic (Crisp/Lowrie/Bard for Dunn/Weathers). Even that could be a little bit of a stretch.

Chip R
06-09-2008, 01:50 PM
Where would they play him?

fearofpopvol1
06-09-2008, 01:54 PM
Where would they play him?

DH.

Possibly a few starts at 1B. I think he'd fill the Ortiz role basically.

RedsManRick
06-09-2008, 01:55 PM
Where would they play him?

I think the suggestion of interest is predicated on the notion that Big Papi would be out for the remainder of the season -- Dunn would likely DH and spell Manny in LF.

Chip R
06-09-2008, 01:59 PM
I think the suggestion of interested predicated on the notion that Big Papi would be out for the remainder of the season -- Dunn would likely DH and spell Manny in LF.


If Papi is out for the season, I could see it. But otherwise he isn't going to play.

fearofpopvol1
06-09-2008, 02:03 PM
If Papi is out for the season, I could see it. But otherwise he isn't going to play.

I think that's the point. The Red Sox would only pursue Dunn if Ortiz was out for the season. Otherwise, it's not an option that would be explored.

harangatang
06-09-2008, 02:20 PM
If the Reds are out of it they should trade away Dunn if they can get some decent prospects. Then hoping he hits the Free Agent market, resign him to a LTC over the offseason.

KronoRed
06-09-2008, 02:58 PM
I don't see the Reds going back after him happening, when he leaves he'll be gone.

LoganBuck
06-09-2008, 03:07 PM
Depends on what they want to send back. If Dunn has no intention of returning the Reds get the draft compensation, assuming that continues to be available. If they trade him to Boston, they get the compensation. I want players with at least the value of the two draft picks that Boston would likely receive.

Spitball
06-09-2008, 03:09 PM
Even if Ortiz is out for the season, I can't see the Red Sox gambling away much in the way of almost ready prospects. Forget Ellsbury, that isn't going to happen. Masterson is currently pitching well in their rotation so I doubt he is even a consideration.

Unless they suffer serious injury to another key component, the Sox have too much depth to pursue Dunn with much more than a package headed with Oscar Tejeda, Brandon Moss, and some lesser throw-ins.

If Ortiz is out, the Sox can easily fill the DH role by moving Manny, Ellsbury, Crisp, Drew, Youkilis, Lowell, and Casey around their line-up. They just won't be desperate enough unless they start to fall in the standings, and the Yankees seem to be making a run at both first place and Adam Dunn. Not even Santana could entice either team to throw out too much value in terms of prospects.

REDREAD
06-09-2008, 04:36 PM
Unless they suffer serious injury to another key component, the Sox have too much depth to pursue Dunn with much more than a package headed with Oscar Tejeda, Brandon Moss, and some lesser throw-ins.
.


I agree with your point. The Red Sox aren't likely to pay a king's ransom. I don't know who the guys are that you listed.. but it makes an interesting question.. Is it in the Reds' best interest to trade Dunn for let's say three B prospects as opposed to letting him walk?

I think if the Reds have already decided they don't want to bring Dunn back, they should go for the B prospects (assuming there's some ML potential there).. I wouldn't want to risk offering Dunn arbitratiion.

I also agree with the poster that said if we trade Dunn this year, he's not even going to consider signing with us as a FA. Dunn has said that the trade talk wears him down. Now maybe Dunn isn't being realistic, but it bothers him. He's not going to resign with Cincy after being traded and then listen to another 6 years of trade rumors again... I think he feels there's a team out there that won't be shopping him every year. Whether that's realistic or not, I don't know.

Heck for all we know, Dunn may have already decided the team he wants to play for next year.. and it might not be Cincy.

bucksfan2
06-09-2008, 04:58 PM
I agree with your point. The Red Sox aren't likely to pay a king's ransom. I don't know who the guys are that you listed.. but it makes an interesting question.. Is it in the Reds' best interest to trade Dunn for let's say three B prospects as opposed to letting him walk?


REDREAD I read somewhere (I think foxsports.com) that the 09 Draft looks to be pretty scarce and more than likely you will see trades than clubs offering arb and taking the supplemental picks. If thats true do you take the best offer at the trade deadline for Dunn or do you put your stock in the future draft?

Spitball
06-09-2008, 06:00 PM
I believe the Reds are really going to have to do their homework on the lower minor leagues and hope to get lucky, because at this time teams just don't seem to want to part with their better prospects in the higher minors for a three month rental. Texas got a decent return for Texeiera, but they traded him with more than a year left on his contract. Same can be said for Bedard and Haren.

We may see a cyle of change someday, but right now even the big markets like Boston, New York, and Los Angeles would rather develop young, inexpensive talent than to trade it away on older, more expensive short term fixes.

I'm not a big fan of overpaying for outfielders, but I hope the Reds hold onto Dunn and try to resign him.

REDREAD
06-09-2008, 06:18 PM
REDREAD I read somewhere (I think foxsports.com) that the 09 Draft looks to be pretty scarce and more than likely you will see trades than clubs offering arb and taking the supplemental picks. If thats true do you take the best offer at the trade deadline for Dunn or do you put your stock in the future draft?


I think I take the young players from the Red Sox (or whoever), assuming that you get one or two guys that are a legitimate prospects. If you pick up a guy with one or two years minor league service, in theory you should have a better idea of whether he is ML material. There are so many misses on the draft (even by good organizations), I'd rather have the minor leaguers, assuming they have ML potential. Also, taking the minor leaguers means you don't have to pay signing bonuses that you would in the draft, so the money you spend on a comp pick could be used to sign guys that slip due to signablity.. or perhaps used to buy out a high school kid that is bound for college.

puca
06-09-2008, 07:30 PM
I think if the Reds have already decided they don't want to bring Dunn back, they should go for the B prospects (assuming there's some ML potential there).. I wouldn't want to risk offering Dunn arbitratiion.


Offering Dunn arbitration is not a risk. Unless he is injured or his production drops off the map, he is positioned for a significant LTC in both terms of dollars and years.

No way he passes that up for one more year with the Reds.

red-in-la
06-09-2008, 07:50 PM
It depends upon whether or not Castelinni has decided to pony up the money for Dunn long term......so far, the answer would appear to be NO.

If Papi is gone for the year, I could see Dunn for the number 1 pitching prospect in the Boston system. I could see Dunn/Arroyo/Gonzo for a few prospects.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 12:13 AM
How about Griffey for Crisp straight up? It gets Jr a real opportunity for a ring gives the Sox a solid LH bat to play at DH w/o giving up any youthful commodities. We may have to kick in some cash but it's a win-win for everyone included IMO.

Wheelhouse
06-10-2008, 01:45 AM
If the AL East race is looking toothy near the deadline, and Papi is out, they WILL trade for someone. And they will pay...

Topcat
06-10-2008, 04:30 AM
Better hear the names of Masterson and Lowrie if Reds oblige that deal.

Topcat
06-10-2008, 04:32 AM
How about Griffey for Crisp straight up? It gets Jr a real opportunity for a ring gives the Sox a solid LH bat to play at DH w/o giving up any youthful commodities. We may have to kick in some cash but it's a win-win for everyone included IMO.


if the Reds are going to go all whole sale on guys who have proven they can play in MLB with long track records the return better be to point Redsox minors become devastated.

blumj
06-10-2008, 07:50 AM
Better hear the names of Masterson and Lowrie if Reds oblige that deal.
I can't help but find this stuff a little amusing. You guys will get a chance to see Masterson for yourselves, if you haven't already, because he's pitching against the Reds on Saturday. I'm not sure the names that are getting thrown around in this thread are really the sort of prospects you'd really want back if you're trading Adam Dunn.

REDREAD
06-10-2008, 10:24 AM
Offering Dunn arbitration is not a risk. Unless he is injured or his production drops off the map, he is positioned for a significant LTC in both terms of dollars and years.

No way he passes that up for one more year with the Reds.

That is a good point. My premise is that it's a risk for the Reds if they don't want him back. I wouldn't be upset to have Dunn back one more year.

Dunn is hard to read. I don't know if he wants to come back to Cincy or not.

His comment about how he wanted an extension in spring training or not at all could mean that he wants out or it could mean that he's just really laid back and doesn't want to worry about it during the season.. After all, he knows he will have a job somewhere next season.

But I agree with you now, offering Dunn arb isn't a risk..

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 10:27 AM
if the Reds are going to go all whole sale on guys who have proven they can play in MLB with long track records the return better be to point Redsox minors become devastated.

Sometimes it's not about profitability. If we are being realistic, this is probably Jr's last shot at a ring and perhaps something is owed to him. If you make it prohibitive for Boston to acquire him they won't. This is one excellent scenario perhaps for Jr and in Boston he already has Casey to welcome him. It's really quite the perfect scenario, almost if destiny has answered the call for Jr. :thumbup:

Jr get's a real shot at a ring, Bruce gets the full time gig in RF, we get back something we need desperately now and in the future in Crisp a decent CF option, and Boston get's a little shot in the proverbial offensive arm.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 10:35 AM
I can't help but find this stuff a little amusing. You guys will get a chance to see Masterson for yourselves, if you haven't already, because he's pitching against the Reds on Saturday. I'm not sure the names that are getting thrown around in this thread are really the sort of prospects you'd really want back if you're trading Adam Dunn.

I get your point there but frankly we will likely be limited in our return if/when the F.O. do decide he's going to be dealt. I would much rather have a solid but unspectacular return for Dunn in near ready prospects than to take 2 unproven draft picks in a shallow draft.

That said I would be taking a good hard look at George Kottaras 1st (LHH Catcher, former high pick) to start any Dunn discussiouns and Lowrie a SS would also likely be a part of the discussion. I also like Masterson from what little I know as he projects to be a GB type pitcher but admmittedly I know little more.

Team Clark
06-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Dunn for Youkilis and Lowrie. Youkilis takes over for Votto at 1B. Votto moves to LF.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 01:14 PM
Dunn for Youkilis and Lowrie. Youkilis takes over for Votto at 1B. Votto moves to LF.

Boston would have to sweeten it up a bit more for me than that I think. Youkilis, Crisp and Kottaras/Lowrie (assuming Kottaras is considered a solid catcher) for Dunn and Patterson/A. Phillips.

osuceltic
06-10-2008, 01:28 PM
Dunn for Youkilis and Lowrie. Youkilis takes over for Votto at 1B. Votto moves to LF.

The Sox aren't going to hurt their current team, and dealing Youkilis would do that. Too bad. He'd be great in Cincy.

I just don't see anyone giving up advanced prospects for Dunn, and I don't see Castellini dealing him just for single-A guys.

I'm thinking Dunn for Crisp is the most likely deal with the Sox -- with a low-level prospect thrown in. That "solves" the CF problem with a guy who can really play the position and hits respectably when he plays full-time. He'll make about $5 million next season, the last season of his current contract. With Dunn and Junior off the books next season, that $5 million investment fills one of the glaring outfield holes. Bruce shifts to RF. Then you go about finding a LF and a long-term answer in CF -- maybe Stubbs.

I know it's not what everyone will want, but in the current situation, I can't see Dunn fetching much. And if you're not going to re-sign him -- and I don't think they will or should -- you get what you can. Hopefully, Crisp gets out of Boston, recaptures some of his Cleveland form, takes advantage of GAB and gives us a great season. If we're not in the race, you can take your shot at dealing him next year at the deadline.

We really should be looking at Jocketty specials -- premier players who may be available due to down years, injury, etc. He loves to pounce on those guys. Anyone see any RH bats out there that qualify?

osuceltic
06-10-2008, 01:29 PM
Boston would have to sweeten it up a bit more for me than that I think. Youkilis, Crisp and Kottaras/Lowrie (assuming Kottaras is considered a solid catcher) for Dunn and Patterson/A. Phillips.

I think you're DRASTICALLY overestimating the return the Reds will see for Dunn.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 01:36 PM
I think you're DRASTICALLY overestimating the return the Reds will see for Dunn.


Well if we can differentiate between what he's worth and what we would actually get given the circumstances you could be right about that. But he's worth more than that return if you ask me.

RedsManRick
06-10-2008, 02:11 PM
Dunn for Youkilis and Lowrie. Youkilis takes over for Votto at 1B. Votto moves to LF.


Boston would have to sweeten it up a bit more for me than that I think. Youkilis, Crisp and Kottaras/Lowrie (assuming Kottaras is considered a solid catcher) for Dunn and Patterson/A. Phillips.

Do you guys really think that the Sox would trade 2.5 years of Youkilis and 6 years of Lowrie, or more, for a half season of Dunn? The Sox aren't the type of franchise to give up a ton of future value for an extra win or two. Dunn is a rent-a-player. Yes, he's a very good one, but franchises now appreciate the value of top prospects, especially smart one's like Boston. Particularly with defense factored in, I simply cannot see Boston giving up anything of significant value for Dunn.

The only reason they'd do it is because Dunn is a sure fire Type A FA, meaning a compensatory draft pick. It still seems like a stretch to me. If we want any of their top 5 prospects, it would take more than just Dunn. Dunn and Weathers/Affeldt for Crisp and Lowrie (or a worse prospect) seems like a best case scenario to me.

Junior for a B prospect with us picking up his entire 2008 salary might be the most likely option, as they'd get a decent bat for cheap and Junior would get his shot at a ring.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 03:02 PM
Do you guys really think that the Sox would trade 2.5 years of Youkilis and 6 years of Lowrie, or more, for a half season of Dunn? The Sox aren't the type of franchise to give up a ton of future value for an extra win or two. Dunn is a rent-a-player. Yes, he's a very good one, but franchises now appreciate the value of top prospects, especially smart one's like Boston. Particularly with defense factored in, I simply cannot see Boston giving up anything of significant value for Dunn.

The only reason they'd do it is because Dunn is a sure fire Type A FA, meaning a compensatory draft pick. It still seems like a stretch to me. If we want any of their top 5 prospects, it would take more than just Dunn. Dunn and Weathers/Affeldt for Crisp and Lowrie (or a worse prospect) seems like a best case scenario to me.

Junior for a B prospect with us picking up his entire 2008 salary might be the most likely option, as they'd get a decent bat for cheap and Junior would get his shot at a ring.


Probably not but I wouldn't trade him for what you are suggesting, I would rather keep him than to deal him for that. Griffey for Crisp is the deal I would much rather do anyhow.

Obviously this (any Dunn deal) is all dependant on the Sox needing a bat at some point, not just trading to be trading. They can keep Youkilis as I'm sure they would rather do but Dunn would go nowhere for at least 2-3 quality prospects. That is if it were me doing the deal.

blumj
06-10-2008, 03:24 PM
Probably not but I wouldn't trade him for what you are suggesting, I would rather keep him than to deal him for that. Griffey for Crisp is the deal I would much rather do anyhow.

Obviously this (any Dunn deal) is all dependant on the Sox needing a bat at some point, not just trading to be trading. They can keep Youkilis as I'm sure they would rather do but Dunn would go nowhere for at least 2-3 quality prospects. That is if it were me doing the deal.
I think there's just some disconnect going on within the discussion. Sometimes value is in the eye of the beholder, but Youkilis is likely someone the Red Sox would consider to be one of their "core" players, and so they'd be likely to value him more highly than most of their better prospects, not less.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2008, 03:27 PM
I think there's just some disconnect going on within the discussion. Sometimes value is in the eye of the beholder, but Youkilis is likely someone the Red Sox would consider to be one of their "core" players, and so they'd be likely to value him more highly than most of their better prospects, not less.

I'm not sure what you mean? Do you think that I am undervaluing Youkilis or do you think that I am intimating that the Sox undervalue him?

blumj
06-10-2008, 03:49 PM
I'm not sure what you mean? Do you think that I am undervaluing Youkilis or do you think that I am intimating that the Sox undervalue him?
Neither. You came to the same conclusion as I did, just from the other direction. Youkilis is probably more valuable to the Red Sox than he would be in a trade to the Reds.

Team Clark
06-10-2008, 03:53 PM
Do you guys really think that the Sox would trade 2.5 years of Youkilis and 6 years of Lowrie, or more, for a half season of Dunn?

Nope. There are many reasons the Red Sox have been AL East contenders and/or World Champions for several years. Making deals like the wishful thinking one I proposed isn't one of them! :laugh:

Will M
06-10-2008, 03:54 PM
I think you're DRASTICALLY overestimating the return the Reds will see for Dunn.

if the reds can't get crisp, youkilis & a decent prospect for Dunn+ then i'd rather have the draft picks next year. crisp and youkailis are decent major league players but Dunn is an offensive monster. plus crisp is owed more money than he is worth and sits on the bench.

crisp, youkilis & a decent prospect for Dunn+ is imo a fair trade for both teams

klw
06-13-2008, 03:21 PM
Nice discussion of this over at SOSH
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=32543

Highlifeman21
06-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Nice discussion of this over at SOSH
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=32543

Thank you for posting that link.

That was a very nice (and surprisingly accurate) discussion re: Dunn.

Red Sox fans know Dunn's true value.

It's a shame Reds fans can't grasp the same concept.

Spring~Fields
06-13-2008, 08:00 PM
If The Reds were really going to let Dunn walk or to try to turn him over for what they can get, would someone like the pitcher Justin Masterson, the young man pitching tonight for Boston be unrealistic? Or maybe Griffey and Arroyo.


J. Masterson (L, 3-1) 6.2 4 3 3 3 9 2 2.90

I thought that Masterson looked like a very nice pitcher.