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Stephenk29
06-10-2008, 08:47 PM
I'm now under the impression that verdict is out on Edwin. He simply can not hit at the major league level. When he does get hot he isn't consistent enough to warrant regular playing time. If we were to have Gonzo, Keppinger, and Hairston I doubt he would even be on the roster. Time to cut the cord? Thoughts?

TN Red Fan
06-10-2008, 09:48 PM
You know what's funny?

People think Phillips is a cleanup hitter and EE belongs in the minors.

Yet when you break it down they have the exact same OBP, almost equal HRs, and and OPS that's all of about 50 points off.

And Edwin can hit lefties, too.


He's in a slump. It happens. Get over it. His batting average is down, but his HRs are up. My guess is he needs to relax and work the count a little more. He's a career .280 hitter. He'll get it together.

aerontg
06-10-2008, 11:25 PM
E.E, Dave Kingman on line one.

mole44
06-10-2008, 11:47 PM
You know what's funny?

People think Phillips is a cleanup hitter and EE belongs in the minors.

Yet when you break it down they have the exact same OBP, almost equal HRs, and and OPS that's all of about 50 points off.

And Edwin can hit lefties, too.


He's in a slump. It happens. Get over it. His batting average is down, but his HRs are up. My guess is he needs to relax and work the count a little more. He's a career .280 hitter. He'll get it together.Thanks you.:beerme:

Stephenk29
06-10-2008, 11:55 PM
Phillips and Ed are both slumping yes, but I think we know what Phillips can do when hes at the top of his game. Edwin doesn't seem to have anything close to that. I don't think you can compare recent stats with these guys. Edwin always seems to have prolonged slumps. I'm not trying to dog on him, I want him to be good because it makes the Reds better too, but he just never seems to be able to put it all together.

and for the record, I agree B.P. should not hit clean up.

TheOnlyRedsFan
06-11-2008, 12:15 AM
You know what's funny?

People think Phillips is a cleanup hitter and EE belongs in the minors.

Yet when you break it down they have the exact same OBP, almost equal HRs, and and OPS that's all of about 50 points off.

And Edwin can hit lefties, too.


He's in a slump. It happens. Get over it. His batting average is down, but his HRs are up. My guess is he needs to relax and work the count a little more. He's a career .280 hitter. He'll get it together.


This.

Blue
06-11-2008, 12:30 AM
Phillips and Ed are both slumping yes, but I think we know what Phillips can do when hes at the top of his game. Edwin doesn't seem to have anything close to that. I don't think you can compare recent stats with these guys. Edwin always seems to have prolonged slumps. I'm not trying to dog on him, I want him to be good because it makes the Reds better too, but he just never seems to be able to put it all together.

and for the record, I agree B.P. should not hit clean up.

I'd like to introduce you to EE's April.

I'm losing faith in him also, but the guy has great potential and can carry the team when he's hot. I hope he hits well for the rest of the season, as that would be one less hole to fill.

UC_Ken
06-11-2008, 01:13 AM
When EE goes into these slumps he looks absolutely lost. I know when EE gets hot he gets white hot but I just don't think that he's the type of guy who can be a cornerstone player with how inconsistent he his. I really hope he proves me wrong.

And before anyone says that EE has similar numbers to BP I will say that BP isn't a cornerstone offensive player but terrific defense at an up the middle position make him a cornerstone player. If he's hitting 6 or 7 he's a terrific asset.

kfm
06-11-2008, 08:14 AM
I'm now under the impression that verdict is out on Edwin. He simply can not hit at the major league level. When he does get hot he isn't consistent enough to warrant regular playing time. If we were to have Gonzo, Keppinger, and Hairston I doubt he would even be on the roster. Time to cut the cord? Thoughts?

Wow, Guy lead the team in batting average last year, but now cannot hit at a major league level. Guy lead the team in hitting with RISP and now can't hit at a major league level, guy lead the team in hitting with bases loaded and now can't hit at a major league level. Why don't we just cut him and let the Marlins sign him. Of course he promptly goes 3 for 4 last night. Look at the Indians and how many of their players are having down offensive years, I doubt none of us have come to the conclusion that those guys just aren't major leaguers.

44Magnum
06-11-2008, 10:01 AM
I believe it's also time to cut the ties with EE. Let's package him while he still has a little value.

Yes BP has a terrible approach at the plate. However, he can field his position like no other. BP is a typical 6 or 7 hitter.

UK Reds Fan
06-11-2008, 10:40 AM
You know what's funny?

People think Phillips is a cleanup hitter and EE belongs in the minors.

Yet when you break it down they have the exact same OBP, almost equal HRs, and and OPS that's all of about 50 points off.

And Edwin can hit lefties, too.


He's in a slump. It happens. Get over it. His batting average is down, but his HRs are up. My guess is he needs to relax and work the count a little more. He's a career .280 hitter. He'll get it together.


Brandon Phillips 805 OPS
Edwin Encarnion 770 OPS

Also, Brandon gives you more speed on the bases once he gets there. Secondly, Brandon plays defense at his position as a top 5 gloveman in all of baseball....We can't say the same thing for Edwin on any level.

Edwin more than deserves grumbling at his play especially compared to Phillips. I don't think any disagree that Phillips is miscast in the 4 spot, more of a 6-7 spot hitter, but regardless, Phillips is fine with me.

Hondo
06-11-2008, 12:22 PM
The problem with EE is that he is at a PREMIUM offensive position, and while he as 10 Homers, his bat in not reliable... Although he did get 3 hits yesterday and his BA is above .240 now... If Edwin is going to remain on the team, he needs to be a consistant .275-.285 atleast, with 25-30 HR, and 80+ RBI at the very least...

The other thing about Ediwn I notice, is he is very complacent... He dones't ever get fired up about anything... I would like some more guys on this team with some Grit...

Like when you see Hamilton play or a guy like Orlando Cabrera... Those guys are Gamers... You just see it in their demeanor and Swagger...

Guys like Alex Gonzalez is another guy... Just goes out there and punches a Time CLock... I wouldn't mind the Reds signing Orlando Cabrera to a 2 year deal in the offseason... Atleast there would be some Passion in the Lineup and on the Field...

I know a lot of guys are going to say Adam Dunn doesn't show it either, but the guy is a proven Power Hitter who is going to hit 40 Homers, and have an OB% around .400, and score 100 runs, have 100 RBI, and Walk 100 times....

So, I am for getting replacements for Edwin and Alex Gonzalez...

My quick fix suggestion for Walt...

Offseason: Re-Sign Adam Dunn to a 5 year deal
Sign 3B Chipper Jones to a 4 year deal
Sign SS Orlando Cabrera to a 2/3 year deal

Sign another Bad Boy reliever... Like Fransisco Rodriguez.... I know what you guys are going to say, but I don't care... Give this guy 15 Million a year too for 4 years...

That will insure one unstoppable Bullpen with Burton and Bray coming along... ALong with guys like Herrera...

Ok, I know... Pipe Dreams... But whatever... This Bob C guy wants to WIN now? Well, cut the Fat and Buy some Meat... It isn't going to cost that much more in terms of Dollars once you get rid off all these other guys, especially with guys like Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, Burton signed for sooo Cheap... So Break the Bank on 4-5 year deals, and when those deals are done, you lock up your young stars now, in 5 years and get rid of guys like Chipper, Orlando, CoCo, and K-Rod...

And Start a new...

Will Bob C make me a consultant to Walt?

44Magnum
06-11-2008, 01:09 PM
Will Bob C make me a consultant to Walt?

I hope not.

Dunn needs to go!
Chipper will be like Jr. before that contract would be up.

Hondo
06-11-2008, 01:24 PM
I hope not.

Dunn needs to go!
Chipper will be like Jr. before that contract would be up.

Thanks for the "I hope not"

Is that about the reliever thread I Posted? ;)

kyjobu
06-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Stephenk29, that statement you made about EdE not hitting at the ML level is ridiculous. The guy had the team's best average last year and was arguably their best clutch hitter.......At 24 years old.

Get a clue.

bleedsred
06-11-2008, 06:17 PM
The guy is a streaky ball player, I think that is why a lot of fans do not like EE. As far as Phillips goes, I think putting him in the 4th spot has added pressure to the guy and he is pressing a bit.

Stephenk29
06-11-2008, 06:26 PM
Ok saying he couldn't hit at a major league level may have been a little much I admit, but he's hardly someone I count on. Yeah he had a good April, but what happened to May and June? April .293, not to high of an average for someone who was "hot". May .172. This month .250.

He's also 25 (not trying to be critical of you).

Get a clue? You fit the internet crowd well.

Kingspoint
06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
WAKE UP EE!!!

YOU JUST LOST YOUR JOB ACCORDING TO DUSTY BAKER.

From today's Enquirer:

“There’s a lot Kepp has to do,” Baker said. “You don’t want his legs to fatigue. That’s when you pull stuff. . . you want to make sure everything’s back together before they get here. You know they’re going to want to play everyday, especially with Kepp being out so long. He was going to play third, but with Jerry (Hairston Jr.) out, we need him to play short. It’s not only at-bats. It’s the length of time you’re standing there. It’s running. You’ve got to build up endurance. He’s been working hard.”

Keppinger will start third tonight. The Sarasota Reds on their all-star break after tomorrow's game. Keppinger will likely continue to rehab with Triple-A Louisville.

killuminati35
06-11-2008, 08:04 PM
Sitting EdE at this point seems like a bit of an overrreaction...but his streakiness is getting to become a concern -- if not a major concern. When he slumps, he is the definition of a black hole in the line-up and his slumps are becoming more common. I would love nothing more than EdE to live up to his potential, but I don't know if he will.

With that said, he is way too young to give up on now. The season is pretty much over for the Reds, so lets see what these young guys can do...

kyjobu
06-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Look at my message. I was talking about last year.....He was 24 then.

Stephenk29
06-12-2008, 10:25 PM
my apologies then.

Not to beat the dead horse, but apparently Dusty is thinking along the same lines now as well.

Big Hurt
06-13-2008, 09:10 AM
With that said, he is way too young to give up on now. The season is pretty much over for the Reds, so lets see what these young guys can do...[/QUOTE]

Good post. I feel the same. Let's give him the entire year in this seemingly lost season. He flashes mad skills occasionally. Hopefully he will find his way.

Kingspoint
06-13-2008, 09:20 PM
As of this very second, EE is hitting .313 with an OPS of 1.083 in June.

However, he only has 2 RBI's from 2 HR's. No other RBI's the rest of the month.

It's a little hard to get RBI's when the guy hitting directly in front of you is hitting .135 in June.

Lockdwn11
06-14-2008, 11:49 AM
The problem with EE is that he is at a PREMIUM offensive position, and while he as 10 Homers, his bat in not reliable... Although he did get 3 hits yesterday and his BA is above .240 now... If Edwin is going to remain on the team, he needs to be a consistant .275-.285 atleast, with 25-30 HR, and 80+ RBI at the very least...

The other thing about Ediwn I notice, is he is very complacent... He dones't ever get fired up about anything... I would like some more guys on this team with some Grit...

Like when you see Hamilton play or a guy like Orlando Cabrera... Those guys are Gamers... You just see it in their demeanor and Swagger...

Guys like Alex Gonzalez is another guy... Just goes out there and punches a Time CLock... I wouldn't mind the Reds signing Orlando Cabrera to a 2 year deal in the offseason... Atleast there would be some Passion in the Lineup and on the Field...

I know a lot of guys are going to say Adam Dunn doesn't show it either, but the guy is a proven Power Hitter who is going to hit 40 Homers, and have an OB% around .400, and score 100 runs, have 100 RBI, and Walk 100 times....

So, I am for getting replacements for Edwin and Alex Gonzalez...

My quick fix suggestion for Walt...

Offseason: Re-Sign Adam Dunn to a 5 year deal
Sign 3B Chipper Jones to a 4 year deal
Sign SS Orlando Cabrera to a 2/3 year deal

Sign another Bad Boy reliever... Like Fransisco Rodriguez.... I know what you guys are going to say, but I don't care... Give this guy 15 Million a year too for 4 years...

That will insure one unstoppable Bullpen with Burton and Bray coming along... ALong with guys like Herrera...

Ok, I know... Pipe Dreams... But whatever... This Bob C guy wants to WIN now? Well, cut the Fat and Buy some Meat... It isn't going to cost that much more in terms of Dollars once you get rid off all these other guys, especially with guys like Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, Volquez, Burton signed for sooo Cheap... So Break the Bank on 4-5 year deals, and when those deals are done, you lock up your young stars now, in 5 years and get rid of guys like Chipper, Orlando, CoCo, and K-Rod...

And Start a new...

Will Bob C make me a consultant to Walt?

Hondo, being how you brought up Adam Dunn I would like to know how you argue agianst Dunn being inconsistant/streaky by saying the stats are there at the end of the year but you say EE need to be more consistant with his bat? well the same argument can be made for EE.

2006: .359 .473 .831

2007: .356 .438 .794

2008 .330 .443 .773

I am in no way saying that EE is on Adam Dunns level at the plate but they are both very inconsistant/streaky hitters and I would like them both to be more consistant with the bat before I would throw a bunch of cash at either of them. Now the problem I have with EE is his numbers are pretty consistant at the end of the year BUT they are go down a little each year at a time when they should be coming up and to me that means trouble.

Kingspoint
06-14-2008, 06:52 PM
Hondo, being how you brought up Adam Dunn I would like to know how you argue agianst Dunn being inconsistant/streaky by saying the stats are there at the end of the year but you say EE need to be more consistant with his bat? well the same argument can be made for EE.

2006: .359 .473 .831

2007: .356 .438 .794

2008 .330 .443 .773

I am in no way saying that EE is on Adam Dunns level at the plate but they are both very inconsistant/streaky hitters and I would like them both to be more consistant with the bat before I would throw a bunch of cash at either of them. Now the problem I have with EE is his numbers are pretty consistant at the end of the year BUT they are go down a little each year at a time when they should be coming up and to me that means trouble.

2007 was the "Sophomore Slump".

2008 April and May combined are exactly the same totals as 2007 April and May combined. He's on a tear so far in June OPS'ing over 1.000 while more than half of the team struggles to hit .180. If the rest of the team could "catch up" to EdE now, everything would be fine.

It's looking like he's saved his job and when Keppinger comes back, Keppinger can play SS. I hope Keppinger stays in the Minors and stretches out his injury so that he can play SS before coming up to the bigs only to have the Brilliant Baker sit June's hottest bat.

Now it would be even more foolish of Baker to put Keppinger and Janish' range together on that side while removing the BEST bat in the REDS' lineup in June. Baker should be batting EE #2 right now, as there's no reason to believe he won't continue hitting this well just like he did last summer.

Bruce CF
Encarnacion 3B
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Votto 1B
Bako C
Janish SS (The Big Red Machine put their worst hitter in the #8 hole, as most teams do. The Pitcher only gets 2 or 3 AB's with one of them being a Sacrifice anyway.)

when Kepp gets back...

Keppinger SS
Bruce CF
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Votto 1B
Ross C (Ross or Bako in either lineup, whoever's turn it is)

Kingspoint
06-14-2008, 07:39 PM
HOMERUN EDWIN ENCARNACION

Not another bad thing to say about Edwin or you're going to have to answer to me, personally. I will find your URL....come over to your house....and take you to a REDS game and make you sit at Third Base and buy you a couple of beers as you get giddy watching the REDS' best hitter in June, and the best clutch hitter on the team in the last 2 years.

Go Edwin!!!

AccordinglyReds
06-14-2008, 07:42 PM
EE <3

Nice HR, Edwin! :)

texasdave
06-14-2008, 07:47 PM
I am not the biggest EdE supporter, but he deserves major props for that 2-out 9th inning blast off Papelbon. :thumbup:

Blue
06-14-2008, 11:38 PM
As of this very second, EE is hitting .313 with an OPS of 1.083 in June.

However, he only has 2 RBI's from 2 HR's. No other RBI's the rest of the month.

It's a little hard to get RBI's when the guy hitting directly in front of you is hitting .135 in June.

Well, the guy in front of him has a .370 OBP in June, and since that is unquestionably what matters for the point you are trying to make, I'd say its more a matter of some bad luck for Edwin. Of course, the point you made was entirely agenda driven, so you didn't need to use the right statistic, just one that painted the picture as you wanted.

ChatterRed
06-14-2008, 11:39 PM
I am an EE fan and I think he takes alot of undeserved crap on this board.

Blue
06-14-2008, 11:41 PM
He's not the only one.

HeatherC1212
06-14-2008, 11:52 PM
That was fabulous to see Edwin smack that HR into the left field seats! That was awesome and I'd like to thank him for helping give Red Sox Nation a complete stroke today, LOL :lol:

Blue
06-15-2008, 12:00 AM
That was fabulous to see Edwin smack that HR into the left field seats! That was awesome and I'd like to thank him for helping give Red Sox Nation a complete stroke today, LOL :lol:

Yeah, he really crushed that one. I didn't think it would get out because I didn't think it was hit high enough. But it was. IMO, any ball hit out to left field at GABP is legit in most ballparks.

Stephenk29
06-15-2008, 05:43 PM
gotta give credit where credit is due. To bad it got wasted though:rolleyes:

Hondo
06-15-2008, 05:43 PM
Why on Earth the Pitchers brought in to preserve the game were brought in, but awww well, thats Dusty-Ball... Not Money Ball...

dmoe
06-15-2008, 05:49 PM
i really do think Eddie takes a lot of heat around here... some of it is deserved, but a lot of it isn't. he's growing to be a favorite of mine. hope he's not involved in the house cleaning...

improbus
06-16-2008, 09:41 AM
I'm wondering if EE's problems are the expectations of EE. With todays detailed statistical analysis, every hitter has to be Albert Pujols or he's no good. Were we really expecting EE to hit .320 with 30 HR's and 120 RBI's a season? EE is a streaky, average offensive player with a streaky glove and even streakier arm. There are places in the game for guys like him. We're always look for the next big thing, when we have a decent cheap guy right now.
In the final analysis, I am more worried about EE's streaky defense than his offense.