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View Full Version : Homer Bailey is overcoached!



44Magnum
06-11-2008, 10:16 AM
An ORG thread "Where is Homer's velocity?" got me to thinking.

The Reds have managed to take a guy who could routinely throw 95-96 mph and turn him into a 86-90 mph guy.

I almost throw up in my mouth everytime I hear Welsh talk about the Reds trying to shorten up Bailey's stride. Why would they?

Velocity is about momentum. MLB coaches are so big right now on slowing guys down and balance points. Why slow a guy down and make him pause at a balance point? That kills all momentum and puts undue strain on the arm.

All the Reds had to do with Bailey was make him a little quicker to the plate from the stretch. Instead they've tried a complete overhaul and may have ruined a once promising pitcher.

durl
06-11-2008, 10:40 AM
The pitching staff doesn't seem to have a problem with Volquez hitting the low 90s. What's your take on why they are limiting Bailey but not others?

Maldez
06-11-2008, 10:42 AM
I'm not sure what the hell has happened to Homer, but it's very discouraging. He looks like a AA pitcher out there. A fastball that's not fast, and a big looping curve that seems to hang just where you don't want it to hang (unless you're a hitter trying to drive the ball 500 feet).

Homer looked bad last night. Real bad.

44Magnum
06-11-2008, 11:19 AM
The pitching staff doesn't seem to have a problem with Volquez hitting the low 90s. What's your take on why they are limiting Bailey but not others?

Volquez was already a finished product (other than tweaking his change) when they got him. Give them time. They may ruin them all.

Since Homer is tall, they think he should throw like Harang. He is not that type of pitcher.

Orodle
06-11-2008, 11:35 AM
Your right, who needs coaches?

Your crazy for commenting on such a subject when all you have based it on is watching games via TV.

44Magnum
06-11-2008, 12:21 PM
Your right, who needs coaches?

Your crazy for commenting on such a subject when all you have based it on is watching games via TV.

I said overcoached. I never said players don't need coaches, but I will say players don't need bad coaches.

Hondo
06-11-2008, 12:26 PM
He doesn't look like a AAAA Pitcher, he had 2 outs in the Bottom of the 3rd or whatever... and all hell broke Loose... Didn't they misplay a Ball to keep that Inning alive as well?

Homer looked great the first 3 innings... Got in a Jam and didn't get out of it...

Listen, Keep Homer out there, atleast there is some Life with the guy... He could make major strides this year... Helk, we are 10 games back, and I would rather go with Homer than run Fogg or Belisle back out there as Starters...

steig
06-11-2008, 01:03 PM
He seems overcoached, but give him another chance. He looked like he was aiming the ball rather than throwing the ball when he started to get into trouble in the 3rd. It could be that he would benefit from a change in organizations.

Jr's Boy
06-11-2008, 01:09 PM
I noticed his delivery seems really off than it used too.His mechanics are all funky now.

44Magnum
06-11-2008, 01:16 PM
I'm all for keeping him up with the big club since the Reds are done this year. I just hope he can get things back together.

podgejeff_
06-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Let him pitch how he used to, and use him in relief.

Perhaps Bailey can become our own in-house closer, allowing us to trade Coco for something.

Phillips Head
06-11-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm all for keeping him up with the big club since the Reds are done this year. I just hope he can get things back together.

We're 4 under, and its mid-June ... this season is not over ...

ChatterRed
06-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Yeah he's overcoached by the same coaches who cut the time in half that Cueto, Darryl Thompson, and Volquez needed to get to the majors.

levydl
06-11-2008, 06:11 PM
Yeah he's overcoached by the same coaches who cut the time in half that Cueto, Darryl Thompson, and Volquez needed to get to the majors.

How's your boy Maloney doing? Thompson? Either of them "deserve" to be up here?

thorn
06-11-2008, 06:20 PM
Bailey's not overcoached, just overratted.

ChatterRed
06-11-2008, 11:55 PM
Bailey's not overcoached, just overratted.

Bingo.

The analysts at ESPN said the other night he'd never be anything more than a #4 starter in the majors.

SarasotaFan
06-12-2008, 11:02 AM
An ORG thread "Where is Homer's velocity?" got me to thinking.

The Reds have managed to take a guy who could routinely throw 95-96 mph and turn him into a 86-90 mph guy.

I almost throw up in my mouth everytime I hear Welsh talk about the Reds trying to shorten up Bailey's stride. Why would they?

Velocity is about momentum. MLB coaches are so big right now on slowing guys down and balance points. Why slow a guy down and make him pause at a balance point? That kills all momentum and puts undue strain on the arm.

All the Reds had to do with Bailey was make him a little quicker to the plate from the stretch. Instead they've tried a complete overhaul and may have ruined a once promising pitcher.i'd rather have a guy that throws 89 - 91 with movement than a guy who throws 95 straight and flat.

this is the major leagues, everyone is in the big leagues because they can already established the fact they can hit a fastball.

with his previous mechanics you can't make him quicker to the plate unless you make him use the "slide-step" every time. he has a long arm action - his stride has to be long to allow the arm to catch up. make sense ?

Hondo
06-12-2008, 11:27 AM
Bailey pitches great aginst the Power House Phillies, and then gets jumped on in the 3rd the other night with 2 outs against the Cards because of misfielding, and now he is overated? I think Dick Pole needs fired.... Look how many Walks the pitchers are giving up, including Arroyo and Harang... I hope Homer wins 12 Games this year and you all are praising him at seasons end...

SarasotaFan
06-12-2008, 11:33 AM
Bailey pitches great aginst the Power House Phillies, and then gets jumped on in the 3rd the other night with 2 outs against the Cards because of misfielding, and now he is overated? I think Dick Pole needs fired.... Look how many Walks the pitchers are giving up, including Arroyo and Harang... I hope Homer wins 12 Games this year and you all are praising him at seasons end...
is Dick Pole on the mound walking people ?

guys in the big leagues don't need coaching, just a little "fine tuning" of some mechanics every now and then.

numbers don't lie :


DATE OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO
JUN 05 @PHI 0 1 2.84 0 6.1 4 2 4 1
JUN 10 STL 0 1 6.30 0 3.2 8 5 3 2

if you're not gonna strike people out then you better have some movement on your ball that gets a lot of ground outs....

44Magnum
06-12-2008, 11:39 AM
i'd rather have a guy that throws 89 - 91 with movement than a guy who throws 95 straight and flat.

this is the major leagues, everyone is in the big leagues because they can already established the fact they can hit a fastball.

with his previous mechanics you can't make him quicker to the plate unless you make him use the "slide-step" every time. he has a long arm action - his stride has to be long to allow the arm to catch up. make sense ?

I agree on the movement. I disagree however on speed to the plate. See http://www.pitching.com (http://www.pitching.com/) for proof. Read "One Answer to Pitching Velocity". I'm not a salesman for the guy or anything like that. I just happen to agree with him.

Hondo
06-12-2008, 11:41 AM
is Dick Pole on the mound walking people ?

guys in the big leagues don't need coaching, just a little "fine tuning" of some mechanics every now and then.

numbers don't lie :


DATE OPP W L ERA SV IP H ER BB SO
JUN 05 @PHI 0 1 2.84 0 6.1 4 2 4 1
JUN 10 STL 0 1 6.30 0 3.2 8 5 3 2

if you're not gonna strike people out then you better have some movement on your ball that gets a lot of ground outs....


Cueto Walked 8 guys last night... So maybe there is no "fine tuning" what so ever going on either...

Oh, and that June 5 start looks pretty good to me...

Look, I don't want to argue, but Bailey recieved No help in the Field either Game, there just wasn't an Error charged in his last start during the 3rd Inning, oh and that was also when he walked a couple...

SarasotaFan
06-12-2008, 11:47 AM
I agree on the movement. I disagree however on speed to the plate. See http://www.pitching.com (http://www.pitching.com/) for proof. Read "One Answer to Pitching Velocity". I'm not a salesman for the guy or anything like that. I just happen to agree with him.
i'm just saying with a guy like Homer you're not going to get both.