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View Full Version : Pujols: Obviously a roids/HGH user, or do you have doubts?



Blitz Dorsey
06-11-2008, 02:00 PM
There have been rumblings about Pujols (like his personal trainer a couple years ago having close ties to steroids and HGH) but for the most part it seems he gets a free pass from the media. However, everything about him screams performance enhancing drugs to me.

Everyone complained the last time (McGwire, Sosa, etc.) that not enough sportswriters were asking the tough questions. People said everyone was buring their head in the sand when it was clear certain players were using. You don't need a drug test to tell you that Bret Boone was on something the year he hit 37 HRs for the Mariners. Well, the exact same thing is happening right now IMO. Pujols seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe I have the minority opinion there.

flyer85
06-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Anecdotally his body type, muscular and ripped, screams PEDs. However, that is not proof of anything.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 02:24 PM
You cannot PED your way in to that batting eye and ability to make contact with the ball. Maybe he's used, maybe not. But he's one heck of a ball player either way. I think it's worth noting that his body has not changed since the new testing measures went in to place. Guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds -- not to mention Boone -- seriously "deflated".

flyer85
06-11-2008, 02:26 PM
You cannot PED your way in to that batting eye and ability to make contact with the ball. Maybe he's used, maybe not. But he's one heck of a ball player either way. I think it's worth noting that his body has not changed since the new testing measures went in to place. Guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds -- not to mention Boone -- seriously "deflated".if someone was using HGH I don't know how they would get caught.

redsrule2500
06-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I think it's fairly obvious.

IslandRed
06-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Anecdotally his body type, muscular and ripped, screams PEDs. However, that is not proof of anything.

I don't know if Pujols has or hasn't. It's just unfortunate that there are going to be whispers about any big muscular guy, as if there were no big muscular players in baseball before PEDs. I mean, if Ted Kluszewski was playing today, he'd be right at the top of the "he's gotta be juicing" hit list.

AtomicDumpling
06-11-2008, 02:51 PM
I don't think he is a cheater at all.

Just because a guy is big it means he is a cheater?

Now if a guy went from scrawny to huge in a short amount of time it would be another story. But Pujols has always been big. His body shape does not scream PEDs to me. He is a bit pudgy with plenty of flab. He is not solid muscle by any means.

It is very possible to be big and strong without taking drugs. Good genetics and hard work in the weight room often results in strength and power. No cheating required.

Jpup
06-11-2008, 02:53 PM
If you play for Tony LaRussa, you should be a suspect. I am not sure if he used and no one is, but all signs point to it. You also wonder if some of the injuries and related to PEDs.

cumberlandreds
06-11-2008, 02:54 PM
For me,until someone is proven to be a user there is a doubt. Even with McGwire and Sosa I have very little doubt they used it but some doubt just because it wasn't proven. Unlike Palmeiro,it was proven.

westofyou
06-11-2008, 02:55 PM
Has he tested positive?

Was Hal Morris obviously not using PEDS as well?

Jpup
06-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Has he tested positive?

Was Hal Morris obviously not using PEDS as well?

There are hundreds of players that haven't tested positive and many of them have been caught in other ways.

westofyou
06-11-2008, 03:20 PM
There are hundreds of players that haven't tested positive and many of them have been caught in other ways.

What's the exact definition of "many" in relation to "hundreds"?

Otherwise it all sounds like conjecture to me.

Strikes Out Looking
06-11-2008, 03:27 PM
While I suspect him, I (and as far as everyone else) have no proof.

It will be interesting to see how fast he recovers from his calf injury. If he recovers quickly, like he has from other injuries in the past, that would indicate that he is doing something that isn't above board.

Unfortunately, unless someone implicates him with proof (like a prescription) there is no way to find out because baseball doesn't test for HGH and they only test urine for steroids, so it, I believe, can be masked.

westofyou
06-11-2008, 03:28 PM
If he recovers quickly, like he has from other injuries in the past, that would indicate that he is doing something that isn't above board.

Or he could be a quick healer.

Or have the ability to play through high levels of pain

Strikes Out Looking
06-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Or he could be a quick healer.

Or have the ability to play through high levels of pain

You sir, a much better person that I. I just can't give him the benefit of the doubt.

Blitz Dorsey
06-11-2008, 04:10 PM
I don't think he is a cheater at all.

Just because a guy is big it means he is a cheater?

Now if a guy went from scrawny to huge in a short amount of time it would be another story. But Pujols has always been big. His body shape does not scream PEDs to me. He is a bit pudgy with plenty of flab. He is not solid muscle by any means.

It is very possible to be big and strong without taking drugs. Good genetics and hard work in the weight room often results in strength and power. No cheating required.

That is a very simplistic approach. Who said anything about "just because he's big, he must be using"??? It has little to do with him being a big guy. I was talking more about his personal trainer being linked to roids/HGH, Pujols' off-the-charts stats despite being just a 13th round draft pick who played JUCO ball and was unheard of coming out of high school. Plus you add in the injuries and the fact he plays for the No. 1 cheating manager of all time, Tony LaRussa, and I think those factors are more important to investigate than "he is a big guy." There are a lot of big guys. I don't think Adam Dunn is on the juice.

And for all those people who said Pujols' body hasn't really changed, I've heard he was quite scrawny in JUCO ball then all of a sudden blew up in the Cardinals' minor league system. Maybe he just hit the weights really hard, or maybe he started using PEDs as soon as he became a pro ballplayer. That would help explain his meteoric rise through the Cardinals' system and his unbelievable rookie season (and following seasons).

Caveat Emperor
06-11-2008, 04:11 PM
I suspect Albert Pujols of using PEDs.

But, when I'm watching the game, I yell lots of things at the TV that I suspect guys like Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, and Bill Hall of doing.

bucksfan2
06-11-2008, 04:19 PM
That is a very simplistic approach. Who said anything about "just because he's big, he must be using"??? It has little to do with him being a big guy. I was talking more about his personal trainer being linked to roids/HGH, Pujols' off-the-charts stats despite being just a 13th round draft pick who played JUCO ball and was unheard of coming out of high school. Plus you add in the injuries and the fact he plays for the No. 1 cheating manager of all time, Tony LaRussa, and I think those factors are more important to investigate than "he is a big guy." There are a lot of big guys. I don't think Adam Dunn is on the juice.

And for all those people who said Pujols' body hasn't really changed, I've heard he was quite scrawny in JUCO ball then all of a sudden blew up in the Cardinals' minor league system. Maybe he just hit the weights really hard, or maybe he started using PEDs as soon as he became a pro ballplayer. That would help explain his meteoric rise through the Cardinals' system and his unbelievable rookie season (and following seasons).

I don't like the comment that he went from a 13th rounder to a great player as a reason to link him to PED's. Using that logic anyone drafted after the first few rounds was a PED user because they weren't drafted high enough.

gonelong
06-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I suspect, but I won't accuse.

GL

Always Red
06-11-2008, 04:38 PM
If you're going to suspect Pujols, then it is only logical to suspect Josh Hamilton as well. I mean, how could a guy go from skinny skid row bum to the top of the AL batting rolls in 2 short years without chemical enhancement??

I don't suspect either of them. I think this is legacy we get from the steroid days- whenever anyone becomes "breakout good" there are question marks. Sad.

red-in-la
06-11-2008, 04:39 PM
While I suspect him, I (and as far as everyone else) have no proof.

It will be interesting to see how fast he recovers from his calf injury. If he recovers quickly, like he has from other injuries in the past, that would indicate that he is doing something that isn't above board.

Unfortunately, unless someone implicates him with proof (like a prescription) there is no way to find out because baseball doesn't test for HGH and they only test urine for steroids, so it, I believe, can be masked.

Pujols has several cronic injuries. I believe one is his shoulder and another is his knee.

Strikes Out Looking
06-11-2008, 04:39 PM
If you're going to suspect Pujols, then it is only logical to suspect Josh Hamilton as well. I mean, how could a guy go from skinny skid row bum to the top of the AL batting rolls in 2 short years without chemical enhancement??

I don't suspect either of them. I think this is legacy we get from the steroid days- whenever anyone becomes "breakout good" there are question marks. Sad.

Before Josh Hamilton was as you say a "skinny skid row bum" he was a top notch prospect.

Caveat Emperor
06-11-2008, 04:43 PM
If you play for Tony LaRussa, you should be a suspect.

Wasn't LaRussa more famous for using (and driving under the influence of) performance de-enhancing drugs?

Always Red
06-11-2008, 04:44 PM
Before Josh Hamilton was as you say a "skinny skid row bum" he was a top notch prospect.

Yes, and then he was a skinny skid row bum before he became a Greek god.

BTW, Albert Pujols was starting for the Cards, hitting 35+ HR's and driving in 130 when he was 21; he didn't even have time to be a prospect!

Sorry that my sarcasm didn't come through better; I don't have any reason to believe Pujols is a juicer of any kind, and neither does anyone else here. If he were a Red, we'd all be in love with him, like most of us still are with Josh Hamilton. Hamilton is built (once again now that he is off the streets) like a Greek god, is injury prone, and mashes the ball all over the planet. Obviously a juicer!! ;)

FWIW, I think Pujols and Hamilton are both extremely rare talents (both are also Gold Glove caliber defenders)- 70's in multiple categories on Cyclone's thread on grading players.

Blimpie
06-11-2008, 05:10 PM
First, Big Brown's cracked hoof--now, Pujols' cracked calf.

The proof is clearly indisputable.

jojo
06-11-2008, 05:22 PM
I wish we could stay away from this kind of thing (wild speculation). It doesn't raise the content bar.

dougdirt
06-11-2008, 05:28 PM
I wish we could stay away from this kind of thing (wild speculation). It doesn't raise the content bar.

To be fair there have several interesting links to Pujols and PED's. This isn't nearly as wild as it may seem on the surface.

Blitz Dorsey
06-11-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't like the comment that he went from a 13th rounder to a great player as a reason to link him to PED's. Using that logic anyone drafted after the first few rounds was a PED user because they weren't drafted high enough.

That was just one of many reasons. I agree if that was the sole reason, it wouldn't be even close to enough. But coupled with the rest of the "evidence"...

Blitz Dorsey
06-11-2008, 05:44 PM
To be fair there have several interesting links to Pujols and PED's. This isn't nearly as wild as it may seem on the surface.

And the media seemingly goes out of its way to give him a free pass. No one wants to "jump the gun." However, what happened to all the people who were calling out sportswriters for looking the other way when it was obvious guys like Canseco, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds were using? It took federal investigators to get involved before any of the sportswriters had the guts to do a little something called investigative journalism.

The book "Game of Shadows" is great. It would be even better if it would have came out before everyone except Barry Bonds' kids knew he did 'roids. Game of Shadows just tells us what we pretty much already knew. How about someone getting out in front of the curve for a change.

There is some "proof" out there about Pujols, but no one wants to rock the boat.

Blitz Dorsey
06-11-2008, 05:48 PM
And since someone brought it up, yeah, I definitely think Josh Hamilton has used PEDs.

He will smoke crack but won't do something undetectable that will help him in his profession? C'mon. The guy has probably used HGH, IMO.

red-in-la
06-11-2008, 06:26 PM
And the media seemingly goes out of its way to give him a free pass. No one wants to "jump the gun." However, what happened to all the people who were calling out sportswriters for looking the other way when it was obvious guys like Canseco, McGwire, Sosa and Bonds were using? It took federal investigators to get involved before any of the sportswriters had the guts to do a little something called investigative journalism.

The book "Game of Shadows" is great. It would be even better if it would have came out before everyone except Barry Bonds' kids knew he did 'roids. Game of Shadows just tells us what we pretty much already knew. How about someone getting out in front of the curve for a change.
There is some "proof" out there about Pujols, but no one wants to rock the boat.

Isn't that post reserved for the network news?

Unassisted
06-11-2008, 06:26 PM
I suspect, but I won't accuse.
I think it's within the realm of possibility, but I won't go so far as to say I suspect. I do think it's mean-spirited to unfurl the accusation the day after the guy suffers a serious injury in our favorite team's stadium.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 06:35 PM
Otherwise it all sounds like conjecture to me.

This whole thread is one ginormous conjecture.

jojo
06-11-2008, 06:52 PM
To be fair there have several interesting links to Pujols and PED's. This isn't nearly as wild as it may seem on the surface.

And Jr is both friends with Bonds and has worked out with him.

We know about .0001% of what we would need to know to form a reliable opinion.

TeamBoone
06-11-2008, 07:03 PM
Hal Morris? He was tall, but I don't remember him being muscular. He certainly wasn't sculpted like Pujols, nor is Adam Dunn.

westofyou
06-11-2008, 07:18 PM
Hal Morris? He was tall, but I don't remember him being muscular. He certainly wasn't sculpted like Pujols, nor is Adam Dunn.

Yep, but he used.

gm
06-11-2008, 07:37 PM
Is Albert clean?

Do the NBA refs always call 'em like they see 'em?

deltachi8
06-11-2008, 08:02 PM
jimmy cracked corn....

reds44
06-11-2008, 08:21 PM
And since someone brought it up, yeah, I definitely think Josh Hamilton has used PEDs.

He will smoke crack but won't do something undetectable that will help him in his profession? C'mon. The guy has probably used HGH, IMO.
Um, bit of a difference, no?

I don't see the he smoked rock so he does HGH relation. Half the NBA smokes weed, so does that equate to shoving a needle in their rear end too?

GAC
06-11-2008, 08:50 PM
What brought this accusation (thread) on? Because he got hurt, or has struggled with injury?

So has Jr.

What about our own "HGH" Hairston? Not much is ever said about that. ;)

Man! I've never seen such hatred for a ballplayer like I have for Albert on this forum over the years. Is it simply jealousy? Or the fact he is a member of a division rival (Cards)?

If he was wearing a Red's uni (and I wish he was), we wouldn't accept such a notion, and would be vehemently defending the guy.

I would love to have a player of the caliber of a Pujols on this team. Of the current "generation" of ballplayers, guys like him (and Chipper Jones) really impress me with not only there individual performance; but also their leadership, and that somehow they cause the players around them to raise the level of their play.

RFS62
06-11-2008, 08:57 PM
This thread is sad on so many levels.

paintmered
06-11-2008, 08:57 PM
This thread is a microcosm of the many ways I find Redszone frustrating. And there's probably some truth in here.