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RichRed
06-12-2008, 12:05 PM
NEW HIRE: The Reds will announce the hiring of Jerry Walker soon. Walker was vice president of player personnel under Walt Jocketty in St. Louis. He was basically Jocketty's right-hand man and has a background in scouting.

"He was the first guy I hired in St. Louis," Jocketty said. "He'll come in and evaluate our front office."

Walker retired after Jocketty was fired in St. Louis.

"He wasn't interested in coming back at first," Jocketty said. "I talked to him recently and he's ready."

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080612/SPT04/806120391/1078/COL02

Any thoughts on this guy? Good move or bad move?

Team Clark
06-12-2008, 12:11 PM
EXCELLENT!!! Great first step forward. Now the challenge of making the necessary changes. Good luck.

cumberlandreds
06-12-2008, 12:12 PM
Reds will turn into Cardinals east with Jocketty. That is not a bad thing at all,IMO.

Matt700wlw
06-12-2008, 12:17 PM
No complaints here!

More of Jocketty's guys is a good thing, IMO.

westofyou
06-12-2008, 12:20 PM
Reds will turn into Cardinals east with Jocketty. That is not a bad thing at all,IMO.

And just think it will only be the 3rd time they've done that in the past 72 years.

Degenerate39
06-12-2008, 12:21 PM
A step in the right direction. Now it's time to change the coaching staff

cumberlandreds
06-12-2008, 12:21 PM
And just think it will only be the 3rd time they've done that in the past 72 years.

I know Howsam came from the Cards. Who was the other?

westofyou
06-12-2008, 12:23 PM
I know Howsam came from the Cards. Who was the other?

Giles, was the GM of the Cards Rochester franchise, he was brought in to build a Cardinal style farm system.

LincolnparkRed
06-12-2008, 12:27 PM
Anything the builds us a competitive franchise going forward sounds good to me

westofyou
06-12-2008, 12:32 PM
Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing.

Salvador Dali

The Reds have a rarely mentioned family secret. It’s nothing to be ashamed of, but it’s also not the cloth from which local baseball legends are cut from. Simply put, without the St.Louis Cardinals influence, the Reds might never have gotten their act together during the Depression. They might never have rebuilt their struggling franchise, had the first night game, Won NL championships in 1939 and 1940, nor sculpt Crosley into the legendary park most remember it to have been. Without the Cardinals, the Big Red Machine doesn’t happen the way it did. Without the Cardinals the Reds could have vacated Cincinnati during the Depression.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42397

RedsManRick
06-12-2008, 12:33 PM
EXCELLENT!!! Great first step forward. Now the challenge of making the necessary changes. Good luck.

Any insight you can provide regarding Jerry's particular talents would be appreciated, TC. I understand he was WJ's right hand man in St. Louis, but I'm not clear on what value he added.

Team Clark
06-12-2008, 12:36 PM
Any insight you can provide regarding Jerry's particular talents would be appreciated, TC. I understand he was WJ's right hand man in St. Louis, but I'm not clear on what value he added.

I know OF him but do not not know him. Doubt I ever met him either. Just a good move in my opinion. Hope the follow up is equally as great.

RichRed
06-12-2008, 12:47 PM
Any insight you can provide regarding Jerry's particular talents would be appreciated, TC. I understand he was WJ's right hand man in St. Louis, but I'm not clear on what value he added.

This is what I'm looking for too. This seems like a good move on the suface because, clearly, there was a track record of success in St. Louis under Jocketty. I'm just curious if anyone has insight into Walker's specific strengths and weaknesses.

NJReds
06-12-2008, 12:51 PM
The following item appeared in The Sporting News around the time that the Reds hired Jocketty to an advisory role:


St. Louis lost a front-office resource when Jerry Walker decided to retire to his home in Oklahoma. Walker spent 51 years in the game as a player, coach, executive and talent evaluator. Walker could be lured out of retirement if -- or when -- former Cardinals general manager Walt Jocketty gets another front-office job.

westofyou
06-12-2008, 12:55 PM
Fact:

Jerry Walker was a teammate of Joe Nuxhall on the 1961 KC A's

remdog
06-12-2008, 12:56 PM
This is the same Jerry Walker that pitched for Baltimore, no?

Rem

westofyou
06-12-2008, 12:57 PM
This is the same Jerry Walker that pitched for Baltimore, no?

Rem

Yes, big time bonus baby in the game at age 18

gm
06-12-2008, 12:58 PM
"He was the first guy I hired in St. Louis," Jocketty said. "He'll come in and evaluate our front office."

Why am I getting this mental image of "the Bobs" from the old Office Space movie?

(Not that it would be a "bad thing" for the Red's FO to be re-evaluated)

Falls City Beer
06-12-2008, 01:00 PM
I was hoping for Jimmy Walker.

RichRed
06-12-2008, 01:01 PM
The player Walker was most similar to at age 23, according to baseball-reference.com? Jose Rijo.

The guy is 69 years old - a crafty veteran.

redsmetz
06-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Here's who I thought of when I saw this. My cousin and his wife always take some time in the summer to go down and see Jerry Jeff.

http://urbangrounds.com/images/Jerry_Jeff_Walker.jpg

gm
06-12-2008, 01:04 PM
Giles, was the GM of the Cards Rochester franchise, he was brought in to build a Cardinal style farm system.

The Reds mimicing the Cards organization has its own "cicada-like" lifecycle

Chip R
06-12-2008, 01:13 PM
Here's who I thought of when I saw this. My cousin and his wife always take some time in the summer to go down and see Jerry Jeff.




I thought the same thing. :lol:

Caveat Emperor
06-12-2008, 01:16 PM
I've been waiting for this move to be announced for a while.

This is fantastic news for the Reds. Hopefully he brings with him the incredible internal scouting skills that the Cardinals organization utilized to their advantage over and over again in evalutating their own players.

The Cardinals always seemed to know who was ready to contribute in their minors and who was destined for trade bait. It would be nice to see the Reds start filtering out the crap from the crown jewels as they build this franchise for 2009.

RedlegJake
06-12-2008, 02:00 PM
More than anything else this is the kind of first move that I want to see very much. Rebuild this organization with good, quality baseball men who are hired because of what they know, not who they know.

boognish
06-12-2008, 02:31 PM
Let's hope for a sweeping self-audit and organizational accoutability for which many here have been clamoring for some time.

Krivsky made some strides in player development especially compared to O'Brien and Bowden, but the results need to be borne out on the 25-man roster...and its production. Impediments aside (Castellini, Baker have both been cited rightly or wrongly), that is still the bottom line. Leave no stone unturned.

RBA
06-12-2008, 02:40 PM
Imitate the Cards? Have the players lined up for their weekly "vitamin" booster shots?

Chip R
06-12-2008, 02:42 PM
More than anything else this is the kind of first move that I want to see very much. Rebuild this organization with good, quality baseball men who are hired because of what they know, not who they know.


But it sounds like that Walker was hired because of who he knew. He may be a baseball savant for all I know but he was one of Walt's bobos in StL.

RedsManRick
06-12-2008, 02:45 PM
Let's hope for a sweeping self-audit and organizational accoutability for which many here have been clamoring for some time.

Krivsky made some strides in player development especially compared to O'Brien and Bowden, but the results need to be borne out on the 25-man roster...and its production. Impediments aside (Castellini, Baker have both been cited rightly or wrongly), that is still the bottom line. Leave no stone unturned.

This sounds very promising. I've never had the sense that our GM was really 100% in charge of the organization. The discussion here gives that impression. One can only hope that this has implications for Dusty Baker -- his decisions and options, if not his presence.

MrCinatit
06-12-2008, 03:07 PM
And just think it will only be the 3rd time they've done that in the past 72 years.

The other two times garnered the Reds three rings, as well.

Sounds like those who know the guys as a front office guy are happy with this move, so hopefully, this will help the Reds at least move towards respectability (I'm tired of hearing of the "4 R's: Ranger, Royals, Rays and Reds").

UKFlounder
06-12-2008, 03:15 PM
But it sounds like that Walker was hired because of who he knew. He may be a baseball savant for all I know but he was one of Walt's bobos in StL.

You beat me to it. The "who" he knows was obviously very important, just like it may have been the case when Castellini hired Jockety, after both had been in the St. Louis organization (though I don't know if Bob & Walt knew each other well).

Ga_Red
06-12-2008, 03:56 PM
What else?

Vultures still flock. right?

But why, BRB,

the losing has already stopped, right?


Those who initiate make our history;
those who imitate make our medians.

PuffyPig
06-12-2008, 03:58 PM
Dynoooooooomite....

RedlegJake
06-12-2008, 04:47 PM
You beat me to it. The "who" he knows was obviously very important, just like it may have been the case when Castellini hired Jockety, after both had been in the St. Louis organization (though I don't know if Bob & Walt knew each other well).

Yeah, but Walt has a resume of producing. Walker has a resume of producing. To some extent its always who you know but good organizations require that someone to also know what he's doing. The Reds have a history of hiring people with ties to the team who have either no resume or a poor one. And when they DO go outside to hire it's often for the name not for the resume - OR because he's the cheapest guy of the bunch no matter that he's also the worst. Still - yeah gotta take care of the old boys, you know.

paulrichjr
06-12-2008, 05:21 PM
I believe Walt has full control BUT what do you think he "really" thinks of Dusty? I imagine if he wanted to axe him this offseason Cast would say no.

westofyou
06-12-2008, 05:30 PM
BUT what do you think he "really" thinks of Dusty?

Well one thing's for sure he thought enough of him as a player to have a hand in his last two seasons. So that means they're not strangers by any stretch.

Krusty
06-12-2008, 05:32 PM
Sounds like this could be the end of Bob Miller as the assistant GM.

I wonder if the scouting director and player development guys will be next to go as Jockerty brings in his people?

MWM
06-12-2008, 05:46 PM
Am I only one who hates the idea of copying another team's model? It never seems to work when that happens.

IslandRed
06-12-2008, 06:33 PM
Am I only one who hates the idea of copying another team's model? It never seems to work when that happens.

If the guys who created the "St. Louis model" now work for us and St. Louis has moved on to another model, is it really copying? :p:

RedsManRick
06-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Am I only one who hates the idea of copying another team's model? It never seems to work when that happens.

It depends. If you can isolate the things that are simply smart business from the things that are particular to your given context, you can be quite successful.

The good thing is that Cincy and St Louis are very similar markets and most of the business practices that worked in St Louis are applicable.

You could argue that the Red Sox borrowed heavily from the A's model, but adapted it to their unique advantages.

I'd just like a better understanding of the basic tenets of the Jocketty model. I'd like to know which things were fortune favoring the prepared and which were just plain old good luck. Because the way the Cardinals arrived at the point they're at is due to 4 basic events, 3 of which are hard to duplicate:
1.) Mark McGwire is acquired, chases/passes Ruth, driving attendance and revenue through the roof
2.) Jocketty uses that new revenue to cash in on two very good buy low opportunities (Edmonds, Rolen)
3.) Albert Pujols falls out of the middle of the draft as a fully formed inner circle HOFer.
4.) Chris Carpenter is rescued from the scrap heap for pennies and turns in to a Cy Young starter

If those things (1, 2, and 4) are the result of people, systems, and processes which, over time, can be expected to bear more fruit, that's awesome. But if those were largely quirks of history, we could be in for a long ride. I certainly like the track record, but I definitely wish I had a better sense of the proportion of good business to good luck.

Spitball
06-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Whoops! I forgot the Youtube ban.

RBA
06-12-2008, 07:55 PM
Dynoooooooomite....


That's Jimmie "J.J." Walker