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View Full Version : So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?



ChatterRed
06-12-2008, 01:06 PM
This team isn't that bad, is it?

At what point do they cut their loss with their manager? Eat his contract?

I say Dusty gets fired halfway through next season if it's the same results.

Hondo
06-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I think this team could sure stand Firing Dick Pole and the Hitting Instructor, whoever that is...

mroby85
06-12-2008, 01:38 PM
i think they will stick with dusty, he's proven he can win unlike the other managers who were here, so that will give him more time in my opinion. Also i don't see them being in this same place next year, they should be a very good team next season after these young guys have a year of experience under their belts.

Blue
06-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Too long.

And I think this team will stink again next season if they don't set themselves up properly by trading a few expensive players by the deadline.

killuminati35
06-12-2008, 01:50 PM
Dusty Baker is not this teams problem. I have disagreed with a Baker's moves several times this year, but this team is not built to win right now. The Reds have an aging superstar in RF, have used four shortstops, and are loaded with young players who are going to make mistakes. There isn't a manager in the world who would win with these guys -- at least for right now.

I do agree, however, that the Reds need to look for a new hitting coach. When Braden Looper can throw a complete game on 98 pitches in one of the best hitters parks in the league, you know you have a major problem.

Oxilon
06-12-2008, 01:58 PM
Too long.

And I think this team will stink again next season if they don't set themselves up properly by trading a few expensive players by the deadline.

And who do the Reds replace these few expensive players with? With cheap better players? Sign me up!

Homer Bailey
06-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Dusty's philosphy is what is killing this team, causing hacking at the plate. I say they stick with him for:

3 years, $10.5 million. :rolleyes:

BLEEDS
06-12-2008, 02:19 PM
Until he stops batting CF's and SS's 1st and 2nd, regardless of that player's abilities - this lineup will continue to cause great pains to the Offensive Production.

That being said, it appears our biggest issues remain with Pitching and Defense, and nothing DUHsty is doing in that regards is hurting us. However, his insistence on prioritizing Defense over Offense - in Corey Patterson, Paul Janish, etc.. - has a DIRECT correlation to the point above, since those positions are CF and SS. SO, we can't win for losing, literally...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Cicero
06-12-2008, 02:44 PM
This team has the potential to be very good. The streaky hitting is a problem obviously but I get the feeling we are on the verge of really putting it together. Dusty has won before. The youth of this team is a bigger problem than anything else right now.

BurgervilleBuck
06-12-2008, 03:02 PM
If Jason LaRue can hit a HR against one of your better pitcher, it's time to move on to another pitching coach.

I wouldn't mind maybe putting Bench in there as pitching coach. Or hell, get Pete unsuspended and make him the hitting coach (... in other words, as likely as Bench being the pitching coach).

Javy Pornstache
06-12-2008, 03:06 PM
Dusty's a proven winner, BAY-BEE. There shall be no baseclogging for years to come yet.

Oxilon
06-12-2008, 04:16 PM
If Jason LaRue can hit a HR against one of your better pitcher, it's time to move on to another pitching coach.

I wouldn't mind maybe putting Bench in there as pitching coach. Or hell, get Pete unsuspended and make him the hitting coach (... in other words, as likely as Bench being the pitching coach).

:rolleyes:

There are 162 games in a season. There are going to be many times when a lesser player hits a HR off a better player; hell it happens all the time. Brandan Freakin' Larson popped a monster shot off of Randy Johnson a couple years ago -- should the D'Backs have fired their pitching coach than? And Cueto's extremely young and is a rookie. If you didn't expect him to have his rough patches, you're stuck on cloud nine.

Just because Bench is one of the all time greats doesn't make him a quality pitching coach. Might as well try to sign Sandy Koufax to become our pitching coach with that logic.

BurgervilleBuck
06-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Brandan Freakin' Larson popped a monster shot off of Randy Johnson a couple years ago -- should the D'Backs have fired their pitching coach than?
Depends... did he give up hits to Cody Ross or Jorge Cantu as well?

Blue
06-12-2008, 05:25 PM
And who do the Reds replace these few expensive players with? With cheap better players? Sign me up!

Young players acquired in the trades and new expensive free agents. Have your cake and eat it, too.

_Sir_Charles_
06-12-2008, 05:42 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here. I say they stick with Dusty. This team is not designed to win NOW. I've said this since the off-season that this year should be about 2 things and 2 things only. Improvement and youth experience. The kids should get a good deal of playing time to get them ready for the bigs. And steady improvement, even moderate improvement, is enough to show me that they're taking steps forward. A few games under .500 is improvement already, despite what some here want to claim. Toss the Reds into the NL west and we'd be in 3rd place. In the AL central...3rd place. The thing that makes it seem so dreadful this year is the constant ups and downs and the fact that the Cubs have the best record in baseball making our current standing look that much worse.

This team is on the right track. Does anybody really think Harang is going to continue to pitch at a 2-9 pace? Does anybody think we'll consistantly have multiple injuries decimating our starting line-up? Does anybody seriously think we won't be a better team next year with the kids being more experienced and with Junior not being a focal point in the lineup and OF defense? When you turn your team towards a youth movement you will flat-out experience higher highs and lower lows. Eratic defense, boneheaded plays on the basepaths, etc. Improvement, that's all we should be looking for right now. First place shouldn't even be in our thought process. It's heading in the right direction. For now, just enjoy watching the kids develop and saying your final farewells to the total package that was Junior Griffey. Despite the standings, it's a great time to be a Reds fan.

Blue
06-12-2008, 05:51 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here. I say they stick with Dusty. This team is not designed to win NOW. I've said this since the off-season that this year should be about 2 things and 2 things only. Improvement and youth experience. The kids should get a good deal of playing time to get them ready for the bigs. And steady improvement, even moderate improvement, is enough to show me that they're taking steps forward. A few games under .500 is improvement already, despite what some here want to claim. Toss the Reds into the NL west and we'd be in 3rd place. In the AL central...3rd place. The thing that makes it seem so dreadful this year is the constant ups and downs and the fact that the Cubs have the best record in baseball making our current standing look that much worse.

This team is on the right track. Does anybody really think Harang is going to continue to pitch at a 2-9 pace? Does anybody think we'll consistantly have multiple injuries decimating our starting line-up? Does anybody seriously think we won't be a better team next year with the kids being more experienced and with Junior not being a focal point in the lineup and OF defense? When you turn your team towards a youth movement you will flat-out experience higher highs and lower lows. Eratic defense, boneheaded plays on the basepaths, etc. Improvement, that's all we should be looking for right now. First place shouldn't even be in our thought process. It's heading in the right direction. For now, just enjoy watching the kids develop and saying your final farewells to the total package that was Junior Griffey. Despite the standings, it's a great time to be a Reds fan.

Sure, the team isn't designed to win now, but what about Dusty's performance during the season has given you confidence that any team he manages will live up to its potential? On a nightly basis he doesn't put his team in its best position to win. It continues again tonight. Its a rare game when he doesn't do something completely moronic that seriously hampers his team's ability to win.

The roster may or (more likely) may not be heading in the right direction, but there's really no questioning that this team's field management is very very very poor. I really can't see how any manager in baseball is worse. I'd take Bob Boone batting Adam Dunn leadoff (not a good idea) over Dusty batting Corey Patterson leadoff (the worst idea since the naming of Big Bone Lick).

_Sir_Charles_
06-12-2008, 06:07 PM
Has Dusty made some questionable moves this season? Sure. Name me one manager who hasn't. Just one. Simply put, nobody can. They've all made mistakes. Looking back in hindsight is easy.

Should he have replaced Patterson earlier than he did, of course. Should he have moved Patterson out of the leadoff spot at the bare minimum, of course. Has he left pitchers in longer than he should have, sometimes. But with the young pitchers, you sometimes HAVE to do that in order to find out how they'll respond to difficuties.

Overall, I think he's done a pretty good job. He hasn't overworked our young starters like most people said he would (sorry, 100 to 110 pitches is NOT overworking a young arm). He hasn't favored the veterans over the young players (Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, Janish, Hererra, Bray, Burton, etc, etc, etc). When a young player goes into a slump...he doesn't pull them like previous Reds managers did...he shows some faith in them and lets them fight through it. Dusty isn't the one on the field duffing groundballs or air-mailing throws to firstbase. The only real complaint I have about Dusty is his way of making out his starting lineups and overlooking OBP. Without a true leadoff hitter on this team, anyone he picks for that slot is going to get criticized. If he would do one thing (swap dunn and griffey in the batting order) I'd be happy overall.

Blue
06-12-2008, 06:15 PM
He hasn't just made questionable moves. He has made objectively bad moves in almost every game this season.

Also, there are guys who fit the mold of leadoff hitter better than the guys he has used this season, BUT YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THEM HIT LEADOFF BECAUSE DUSTY IS JUST TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THAT THE CENTERFIELDER AND SHORTSTOP AREN'T REQUIRED BY RULE TO HIT FIRST AND SECOND EVERY GAME! UGH!!!

He got it!
06-12-2008, 06:21 PM
I love that no matter what the Reds record is our problems can always be traced back to one thing...lineup construction. If only we could get a Reds manager to take a straw poll on Redszone before every game to see what the lineup/batting order would be then we would be 162-0. I've never seen people fuss so much over who hits where in the lineup as if that is the determining factor for winning ballgames. It's actually quite humurous.

Put me in the camp that thinks we need a new hitting coach. Jacoby has had his shot. I'm sure it's all a matter of where they are hitting in the lineup but these guys look lost at the plate lately with little or no game plan.

Blue
06-12-2008, 06:31 PM
I love that no matter what the Reds record is our problems can always be traced back to one thing...lineup construction. If only we could get a Reds manager to take a straw poll on Redszone before every game to see what the lineup/batting order would be then we would be 162-0. I've never seen people fuss so much over who hits where in the lineup as if that is the determining factor for winning ballgames. It's actually quite humurous.

Put me in the camp that thinks we need a new hitting coach. Jacoby has had his shot. I'm sure it's all a matter of where they are hitting in the lineup but these guys look lost at the plate lately with little or no game plan.

No, no. The team sucks anyway, but why should any manager keep his job when he makes any team worse than it actually is?

Handofdeath
06-12-2008, 06:36 PM
The comments concerning Dusty Baker on this board simply amazes me at times. People thought the Reds were crazy to hire him despite the fact that in 14 seasons his teams had finished 1st 3 times and 6 times finished 2nd. One of the years his team finished 2nd in their division was in 2002 when the Giants actually won the NL. The Giants were up 3 games to 2 and were leading the Angels 5-0 going into the bottom of the 7th when his pitching staff who was 2nd in the NL with an ERA of 3.80 that season absolutely imploded and gave up 3 runs in both the 7th and 8th innings. They cost Dusty Baker his World Series ring. The man is 36th All-Time in wins. Do you realize that if he gets this team to .500 this season and next, which is a very real possibility, he will be 26th all time? One more season like that and he'll be in the Top 25 ALL TIME. 288 more wins and he'll pass Earl Weaver for 20th all time. And yet, people can't stop talking about stupid he is. Are some of his decisions and lineups questionable? Yes. But IMO he has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and I would point out some of the players he's got to work with don't make his job easy.

Blue
06-12-2008, 06:48 PM
He does nothing to make the team better and much to make it worse. I don't care about his track record, because I don't know if he was doing this stupid crap back then. I do know that he is doing this stupid crap now, and it is hurting the team.

If he did back then what he does now, then its safe to say that those teams also won fewer games than they should have in the regular season, and maybe should have won more in the postseason.

_Sir_Charles_
06-12-2008, 07:10 PM
He hasn't just made questionable moves. He has made objectively bad moves in almost every game this season.

Also, there are guys who fit the mold of leadoff hitter better than the guys he has used this season, BUT YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THEM HIT LEADOFF BECAUSE DUSTY IS JUST TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THAT THE CENTERFIELDER AND SHORTSTOP AREN'T REQUIRED BY RULE TO HIT FIRST AND SECOND EVERY GAME! UGH!!!

Sorry, I disagree with that. That's just a blanket statement. That extra inning game was a VERY poorly managed game. Other than that, there were a few things done wrong here and there.

In regards to the lead off situation. Who SHOULD lead off? Hmmm...let's see. Our catchers? Obviously not. How about our 1B Votto? No, he doesn't fit the mold either. Junior? I don't know anyone who'd think that was a good idea. Edwin? Until he's hitting CONSISTANTLY (and not consistantly bad) I wouldn't suggest we try him out in that slot. So, who's that leave us?

CF
LF
SS
2B

Well, I'd say the odds are pretty good that either the CF or SS will be leading off on THIS roster. Patterson was a mistake. I'm not going to defend that at all. That was his managerial blunder for the year IMO. Not Patterson in CF...just Patterson leading off. Well, both Keppinger and Hairston have lead off quite a bit this season and they were both successful at it. That just leaves Adam Dunn and Brandon Phillips. In the past, using those 2 at leading off has only resulted in the fan base nearly imploding. Personally, I kinda like the idea of Adam leading off, but I'm a majority of one I think. :O) So...instead of complaining about CF'ers and SS leading off, how about you come up with a suggestion of who SHOULD lead off.

Blue
06-12-2008, 08:03 PM
Sorry, I disagree with that. That's just a blanket statement. That extra inning game was a VERY poorly managed game. Other than that, there were a few things done wrong here and there.

In regards to the lead off situation. Who SHOULD lead off? Hmmm...let's see. Our catchers? Obviously not. How about our 1B Votto? No, he doesn't fit the mold either. Junior? I don't know anyone who'd think that was a good idea. Edwin? Until he's hitting CONSISTANTLY (and not consistantly bad) I wouldn't suggest we try him out in that slot. So, who's that leave us?

CF
LF
SS
2B

Well, I'd say the odds are pretty good that either the CF or SS will be leading off on THIS roster. Patterson was a mistake. I'm not going to defend that at all. That was his managerial blunder for the year IMO. Not Patterson in CF...just Patterson leading off. Well, both Keppinger and Hairston have lead off quite a bit this season and they were both successful at it. That just leaves Adam Dunn and Brandon Phillips. In the past, using those 2 at leading off has only resulted in the fan base nearly imploding. Personally, I kinda like the idea of Adam leading off, but I'm a majority of one I think. :O) So...instead of complaining about CF'ers and SS leading off, how about you come up with a suggestion of who SHOULD lead off.

See, that's just the thing. Pretty much everyone fits the mold of what a leadoff hitter should do better than Patterson and Janish. Maybe not a catcher, but maybe so. The first thing a leadoff hitter needs to do is get on base. Those guys can't. They are fast. That is why they lead off. And that is really stupid.

Hairston has hit leadoff quite a bit. I don't think Keppinger has. He's not fast enough for Dusty.

You say that Patterson was a mistake. I'd say it was a pretty big mistake, and one that happened for what? The first 45 games of the season?

CWRed
06-12-2008, 10:00 PM
Leading off CPatt and batting Janish 2nd and putting Votto 7th is about as dumb as anything I have ever seen in baseball. And it has happened like that all year. This club is fundamentally bad. Baker makes it absolutely dreadful.

FIRE DUSTY BAKER!

FlyerFanatic
06-12-2008, 10:29 PM
yep...bakers love for CP is beyond me at this point...as long as he continues to insert him in the lead-off spot..i cant be a fan of his.

MotownRed
06-13-2008, 07:32 AM
Bring back Mackanin.The Reds were more disciplined in the field and at the plate with mack at the helm.

Big Hurt
06-13-2008, 09:14 AM
Stick with Dusty. The old adage is that coaches get too much credit for wins and too much for loses. This team needs to be tweaked and allowed to mature. Let's take the revolving door off of the Manager's office and stick with a development plan for this team. If we want a sacrificial lamb let's look at the pitching and hitting coaches for this year.

He got it!
06-13-2008, 09:27 AM
Well said Big Hurt. Couldn't agree more.

Jack Burton
06-13-2008, 10:24 AM
Fire this bum, he's flat out terrible and anyone who follows the team should see that. He had his chance, he's made a season full of bonehead moves already, can him.

Slyder
06-13-2008, 10:33 AM
How long will Castinelli stick with Dusty?


Way.....




to.....





Long.

IowaRed
06-13-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm surrounded by Cub fans (and currently water) here in Iowa and because the Reds and Cubs are in the same division, I've seen a lot of Cubs-Reds games when Baker was the manager there and heard constant complaining by Cubs fans. I have also seen a few Red-Giants games with Baker as their manager. I'm in my 40's and can say without a doubt, Bob Boone included, that Dusty Baker is the worst in-game manager I've ever seen. Beyond that, his lineups and philosophy are atrocious and illogical and his pattern of excuse making and absurd statements make him a complete and total embarrassment. A manager can't hit, pitch, or field for the players but he can, in theory, make decisions that can put the players in the best position to be successful

To answer the question posed by the thread starter, Castellini thought it was the right move to give this guy a 3 year deal for 12MM, so he is going to stick with him

levydl
06-13-2008, 01:55 PM
The comments concerning Dusty Baker on this board simply amazes me at times. People thought the Reds were crazy to hire him despite the fact that in 14 seasons his teams had finished 1st 3 times and 6 times finished 2nd. One of the years his team finished 2nd in their division was in 2002 when the Giants actually won the NL. The Giants were up 3 games to 2 and were leading the Angels 5-0 going into the bottom of the 7th when his pitching staff who was 2nd in the NL with an ERA of 3.80 that season absolutely imploded and gave up 3 runs in both the 7th and 8th innings. They cost Dusty Baker his World Series ring. The man is 36th All-Time in wins. Do you realize that if he gets this team to .500 this season and next, which is a very real possibility, he will be 26th all time? One more season like that and he'll be in the Top 25 ALL TIME. 288 more wins and he'll pass Earl Weaver for 20th all time. And yet, people can't stop talking about stupid he is. Are some of his decisions and lineups questionable? Yes. But IMO he has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and I would point out some of the players he's got to work with don't make his job easy.

Having 2 of the best young pitchers in the game and some other pretty good players (with Chicago) will help that. Having the best (or 2nd best) offensive player of all time (although he reached that position by cheating), as well as an ace and a top closer, and some other good players will help that too.

Those teams won despite Dusty. Patterson and Janish both have OBPs under .300, and they're getting the most ABs in any game. They're our 2 worst hitters besides our pitchers (and hell, now Arroyo has 1 more HR than Janish), and they're our table setters. Then he leaves in both with runners on in a tie game, with Jay Bruce, perhaps our best hitter, sitting on the bench. Thankfully, Janish was able to work a walk and BP saved us. Everything worked out, but it was like having 19 in a game of 21, hitting, and getting a 2: just because it happened to work out this time does not mean it wasn't a completely terrible call.

And then, after all that, he pinch hits Bruce to start the next inning, when we're now up 4 runs, and he rips a double.

Please, someone, justify these moves.

Handofdeath
04-10-2013, 06:21 PM
2 Division titles in 3 seasons.

redsfan4486
04-10-2013, 06:38 PM
2 Division titles in 3 seasons.

Also two first round exits but I blame that on the players not executing though. After all the years of losing I will take it. I do however feel like if they never make it any further that it might cost dusty his job one day.

Falcon7
04-14-2013, 01:39 AM
Starting Hi-C and Hanigan tonight, and then bringing in Hoover made ZERO sense...

RedTeamGo!
04-14-2013, 03:14 AM
Starting Hi-C and Hanigan tonight, and then bringing in Hoover made ZERO sense...

Hanigan always catches cueto.