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RedsManRick
06-13-2008, 12:31 PM
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/shaun-cumberland.shtml

For those who might not recognize the name, Shaun Cumberland is a CF in AA Chattanooga. He was acquired in the deal that brought over Jorge Cantu.

He was a 10th round pick out of HS who appeared to be stalling out in AA for Tampa Bay at age 22 (354 AB, .246/.303/.347) after a few unimpressive seasons in A ball. He hit a bit better after coming over to the Reds organization, but it was a singles driven improvement (.301/.355/.407), not something to get excited about.

Fast forward to today. After a 4-5 day yesterday, Cumberland is hitting .287/.386/.478. His walks are way up and his strikeouts are way down. He's gone from a 3:1 K/BB to to 1:1. His slugging is way up as well. At just 23 and putting up this sort of line as a CF in AA, he suddenly looks like a real prospect.

So, who has the scoop on this kid? Is this a real turning-the-corner season for him? What's he project to? How's his defense? Anybody have a scouting report?

OnBaseMachine
06-13-2008, 12:34 PM
I made this post about a month ago with some info on him:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67914&highlight=Cumberland

BuckeyeRedleg
06-13-2008, 04:26 PM
Maybe a decent comp if the Reds are super lucky.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Grady-Sizemore.shtml

Of course, Cumberland is a couple years off age-wise. Sizemore, however, did get a year head start as both have August birthday's (8-2-82, 8-1-84), but Sizemore graduated HS and started pro ball at 17 years, 10 months and Cumberland graduated HS and started pro ball at 18 years, 10 months.

Take away that and maybe Cumberland in 2008 is mirroring Sizemore's 2003 season in AA-Akron. Both were promoted a level every year and both had one decent season prior to their semi-breakout season with a bunch of nothing special mixed in between.

It's surprising to see Sizemore's minor league stats as they don't jump out at you. His last year in the minors (2004) before being called up for good late in the season, he OPS'd .798 in Buffalo. That was the year following his semi-breakout Cumberland-like year in 2003 (in AA). Sizemore finished minor league ball with a .788 OPS in 1998 AB's and so far Cumberland is at .735 through 1992 AB's, but it is rising every day.

Again, the only real difference other than that is that Sizemore was two years ahead of pace on Cumberland, by having his breakout AA season in his 4th year as opposed to Cumberland doing it in his 6th.

If this kid has a glove in CF, I think the Reds can find their future CF in-house between he, Stubbs, or even Heisey. One should pan out.

RedsManRick
06-13-2008, 04:32 PM
Sizemore was considered a real athletic freak type, IIRC, considered an elite prospect as a WR as well. That said, it sounds like they have similar skill sets, all around contributors without any single plus plus skill. Even if he's a Sizemore-Lite, 15-15 with a decent OBP, that's a definite asset in CF.

Given that this is his 6th minor league season, I presume he'll be Rule V eligible if not placed on the 40 man after the season?

crazyredfan40
06-13-2008, 06:03 PM
Anyone know how good his defense, speed, and arm are?

Scrap Irony
06-13-2008, 06:16 PM
Arm is above average, speed is slightly below most CF but better than corner OFs, and his overall D should grade out at well above average as a corner OF and just below for a major league CF.

crazyredfan40
06-13-2008, 06:18 PM
Arm is above average, speed is slightly below most CF but better than corner OFs, and his overall D should grade out at well above average as a corner OF and just below for a major league CF.

So kinda like Bruce in CF?

RedsManRick
06-14-2008, 01:39 AM
Sounds like the making of a classic tweener -- 4th OF type.

chicoruiz
06-14-2008, 01:30 PM
....Is "Denorfiesque" a word???

Spring~Fields
06-14-2008, 02:28 PM
What is holding Cumberland back from a promotion to Louisville?

OnBaseMachine
06-14-2008, 02:30 PM
Whoa, when did you change your username, springy?

Spring~Fields
06-14-2008, 02:48 PM
Whoa, when did you change your username, springy?

Last night I asked boss.

I needed a makeover :eek:

I never could figure out, what is a springfieldFan, stupid nick, I thought.

fearofpopvol1
06-14-2008, 04:29 PM
Sounds like the making of a classic tweener -- 4th OF type.

I think that's worst case scenario. And for Calvid Medlock? Not a bad deal in my opinion...

icehole3
06-15-2008, 10:13 AM
What is holding Cumberland back from a promotion to Louisville?

the Reds need to make some decisions on people and also decide where the future is in the outfield, is the spots in CF and LF if youre gonna move Dunn. Jr is a given at 16 million for next year.

my opinion is to go with speed and power and Cumberland probably should get the first shot in ST in LF and Stubbs in CF, looking at the rosters all these guys are similar though and in Dayton Reed and Jones also. Then add Sappelt, Means and Wiley as guys with the same skill set, Ive seen Sappelt and Wiley both are blazers with power.

AAA
Szymanski
Anderson
Dickerson
Gil

AA
Cumberland
Dorn
Henry
Strait

RedlegJake
06-16-2008, 01:38 AM
Last night I asked boss.

I needed a makeover :eek:

I never could figure out, what is a springfieldFan, stupid nick, I thought.

Lots of us were Springfieldfan fans Ken...;)

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2008, 01:43 PM
An update on Cumberland:

After a 3-for-5 game last night, Cumberland is hitting .316/.408/.496 - .903 OPS as of June 28th. What I like most is his 34 BB/37 K ratio in 228 atbats. If he keeps hitting like this he may get a chance to win the Reds center field job out of spring training next year.

ChatterRed
06-28-2008, 02:14 PM
If he eventually moves up to the Reds, down the road, and is still playing CF..........and if Dusty is still the manager...........HE WILL BE LEADING OFF because CFers are fast. ;)

TOBTTReds
06-28-2008, 02:35 PM
An update on Cumberland:

After a 3-for-5 game last night, Cumberland is hitting .316/.408/.496 - .903 OPS as of June 28th. What I like most is his 34 BB/37 K ratio in 228 atbats. If he keeps hitting like this he may get a chance to win the Reds center field job out of spring training next year.

Time for a CF'er bump after the MLB AS break. Stubbs up one, Cumber up one, Dickerson up after a trade by the big league team.

Homer Bailey
06-28-2008, 04:32 PM
How come the buzz on Cumberland has been relatively quiet this year? I just don't know much about him compared to the likes of Frazier, Valaika, Stubbs, Waring, etc.

Joseph
06-29-2008, 12:56 AM
How come the buzz on Cumberland has been relatively quiet this year? I just don't know much about him compared to the likes of Frazier, Valaika, Stubbs, Waring, etc.


Good question. I haven't seen his game, but I like the results I keep hearing. I suppose any of it could be 'soft' and perhaps he doesn't play D at a high level....still the updates we get make me have some hope he is in AAA soon.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2008, 12:59 AM
According to Baseball America, Cumberland is a pretty good athlete who can play all three outfield positions and has a good arm. I'm not sure why he isn't getting more recognition.

camisadelgolf
06-29-2008, 07:48 AM
According to Baseball America, Cumberland is a pretty good athlete who can play all three outfield positions and has a good arm. I'm not sure why he isn't getting more recognition.

My guess is that it's because it would mean good press for Waye Krivsky, which usually isn't allowed on RedsZone.

RedlegJake
06-29-2008, 08:41 AM
It is usually guys with a high draft number and/or a quick start that get the press. Late bloomers and low round guys tend to "sneak" past until they make themselves impossible to ignore. Before coming to the Reds Cumberland had very pedestrian numbers overall. He's come on strong and this season has numbers way beyond anything he's put up from 2003 through his Montgomery stint in 07. If he keeps this up the racket will swell - right now I think most observers are waiting to see if he continues to hit at this clip.

OPS in his first 5 stops before the Reds: .676 (03 Rk) .814 (04 A-) .748 (05 A) .714 (06 A+) .650 (07 AA)

At Chattanooga with the Reds .764 in 07 and .903 to date

Their has to be some questioning - Is this for real? Can he maintain this level of hitting? The next question would be will he maintain this when he's promoted to AAA or will he struggle and backslide? Except for his promotion to low A after rookie ball he struggled at each promotion and didn't really begin to excel until he'd repeated AA this season. Nothing wrong with that really but it may be worth noting that he may need a full season of AAA to get his feet under him at that level if the trend continues, although I believe the jump to AA may actually be the steepest before the big promotion to the majors. I think Cumberland is for real - he's athletic, has the tools and is reaching the prime age range to debut but he may be about a full year from fruition - say a late season call up next year.