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View Full Version : Should Dusty Baker be fired for the good of this ballclub?



JayBruce4HOF
06-14-2008, 09:51 PM
YES. He is totally ill-suited to manage a young ballclub.

The money is already spent.

Drop the axe and get us someone who realizes that Paul Janish is not a two-hole hitter despite the fact that he plays shortstop. :rolleyes:

Jack Burton
06-14-2008, 09:58 PM
Definitely, it must be done as soon as possible.

Blue
06-14-2008, 10:22 PM
I'm going to go with YES.

steig
06-15-2008, 10:32 AM
Dusty is not the problem with this team. Yes, he does some things that many people on RZ do not like and would not do but he also has far more information about the state of the team than we do. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn this team into a contender.

Blue
06-15-2008, 11:23 AM
Dusty is not the problem with this team. Yes, he does some things that many people on RZ do not like and would not do but he also has far more information about the state of the team than we do. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn this team into a contender.

So, what? We should stick with a manager that makes the team worse than it actually is? And what difference does it make if he has some information about the team when he isn't going to use it to make good decisions?

Fullboat
06-15-2008, 11:26 AM
yes. but it ain't happening,way to much money left on his contract.

steig
06-15-2008, 02:10 PM
So, what? We should stick with a manager that makes the team worse than it actually is? And what difference does it make if he has some information about the team when he isn't going to use it to make good decisions?

How many managers can RedsZone constantly complain about? I don't believe there is a manger out there that won't draw criticism. Yes, I hate to see Lincoln go for a second inning saturday but Coco and Burton had thrown the last two days. Coco has had nothing when he pitches for a 3rd day in a row so give him some rest. This roster is not very good and needs to overhauled. You can't blame Dusty for the roster.

Blue
06-15-2008, 02:30 PM
Here's a golden idea: Don't use Cordero when you have a four run lead. That way, he can pitch in a tie game.

I don't have to blame Dusty for the roster. I can blame him for his own incompetence.

steig
06-15-2008, 03:45 PM
If Cordero is already warmed up and you get a 4th run then you might as well use him. Warming a reliever up to much in the bullpen is just the same as using him in a game. This does not mean that I believe Cordero shouldn't be able to go 3 games straight. I think each bullpen arm should want to get an inning in every game. But reality is different and I Cordero can't handle that type of workload. Makes you wonder about his long term ability to be a top closer.

Hondo
06-15-2008, 05:38 PM
Here's a golden idea: Don't use Cordero when you have a four run lead. That way, he can pitch in a tie game.

I don't have to blame Dusty for the roster. I can blame him for his own incompetence.


I didn't understand that either... I mean... What the Hell>>>???????

Uses him, just to use him, then he rests him and brings in the real Nasty Boys in Weathers and Lincoln...

I mean, I couldn't manage in the Majors, I know that... But the reasoning for what he does and his uses of players sometimes makes utterly No sense...

Oh, and he uses Cordero all the time when he doesn't need too... I understand not wanting him to get rusty but Oh my...

Shawn_RedsFan
06-15-2008, 06:05 PM
You want Dusty fired, but who is going to manage the team that is going to do a better job than Dusty??

Why give up on him so early??

Shawn_RedsFan
06-15-2008, 06:06 PM
Have some faith come on....If Bruce goes in a 0-30slump, would you want him back in AAA?? If Volquez has a string of bad starts would you second guess the Hamilton trade??

Blue
06-15-2008, 06:20 PM
You want Dusty fired, but who is going to manage the team that is going to do a better job than Dusty??

Are you kidding me? Have you been watching the games and seeing the crap he does? Pretty much anyone could do a better job than Dusty. Do you really want me to make a list? It'll be a long one.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-15-2008, 06:24 PM
I see it and I agree with you, but I think it would be a horrible thing if he would be fired. Make me the list and then go through the guys the Reds would be likely to hire. That should narrow down your list.

PTI (pti)
06-15-2008, 10:13 PM
Dusty should be fired the very next time he puts his son at the top of the order. It is completely incompreshensible that someone could be fit to manage a major league baseball team when they insist on batting a career .296 on-base % guy in the leadoff spot. Just shockingly, astonishingly stupid.

BurgervilleBuck
06-16-2008, 04:02 AM
I'll vote if someone changes the poll question to "Should JayBruce4HOF be muted for the good of RedsZone?".

What good is there to gain from firing a manager not even half-way into his first season? Who is going to take his place? Dick Pole??

BurgervilleBuck
06-16-2008, 04:04 AM
Do you really want me to make a list?
Yes. I haven't had a good laugh in awhile and I think I'm due.

Jack Burton
06-17-2008, 11:18 AM
For those that want to keep Dusty, what do you think he does well? What have you seen from this team that tells you this is the man for the job?

JayBruce4HOF
06-17-2008, 11:32 AM
I'll vote if someone changes the poll question to "Should JayBruce4HOF be muted for the good of RedsZone?".

What good is there to gain from firing a manager not even half-way into his first season? Who is going to take his place? Dick Pole??

Nice to see personal attacks are alive and well.

justincredible
06-17-2008, 11:55 AM
I'd be perfectly fine with firing Dinglebaker.

BurgervilleBuck
06-17-2008, 01:35 PM
Nice to see personal attacks are alive and well.
How was that a personal attack? It was a stupid poll question to ask. Explain to me how firing a manager in the middle of his first season is for the good of the team. How is it good for the organization?

757690
06-17-2008, 02:05 PM
How was that a personal attack? It was a stupid poll question to ask. Explain to me how firing a manager in the middle of his first season is for the good of the team. How is it good for the organization?

It was not a stupid question, but the poll was set up only to get one result. With these as the only two options:

YES. The man is a nightmare. LET US WAKE UP!!:
No. Dusty knows what he's doing. CF's lead-off and SS's bat 2nd. DUH

it was worthless, and should never been posted. And this is not the first agenda driven poll that JayBruce 4HOF has posted. The purpose of polls is to start a debate, to see where members stand on a certain issue, Not to help him make a one sided argument. The options in this poll are worded in order to get a certain result, not to add to the discussion. Polls like this add nothing to the board and should not be posted.

Even if your attack was personal, he deserved it.

mound_patrol
06-17-2008, 02:16 PM
I was never a fan of hiring Dusty, but it would be wrong to fire him so quickly. Hopefully he'll be gone after year 2 at the latest.

Redsnake
06-17-2008, 02:22 PM
Any manager that thinks it's a good idea to let his 3 - 4 year old son be bat boy clearly shows a lack of judgement. Dusty shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Dusty's isn't Jocketty's guy, I say let him pick who manages this team.

Natty Redlocks
06-17-2008, 09:13 PM
and the Corey he rode in on

Griffey012
06-17-2008, 09:20 PM
after sending Patterson up to bat right there in the 7th against Biemel Jocketty should have came down and fired him on the spot.

Jadam
06-17-2008, 09:22 PM
after sending Patterson up to bat right there in the 7th against Biemel Jocketty should have came down and fired him on the spot.

:thumbup:

TheBigLebowski
06-17-2008, 09:27 PM
Fire him. Immediately.

captainmorgan07
06-17-2008, 09:30 PM
Fire him. Immediately.

Amen i have realized more and more they should of kept Mckanin

JayBruce4HOF
06-17-2008, 10:12 PM
Patterson - LEADING OFF???

:lol:

Maybe you Dusty defenders should focus less on the wording of my polls and more on the suckitude of Dusty. :laugh:

JayBruce4HOF
06-17-2008, 10:13 PM
A 1 for 5 night for Patterson should actually probably be considered a good night for him.

Griffey012
06-17-2008, 10:15 PM
it's slightly above that .194 average...at least we can be remember for creating the Patterson line this season to replace the Mendoza line.

keeganbrick
06-17-2008, 10:17 PM
Once again he bats Patterson lead off because he "doesnt want too many out at the bottom of the lineup."

I wish he was gone now...pathetic.

JayBruce4HOF
06-17-2008, 10:17 PM
it's slightly above that .194 average...at least we can be remember for creating the Patterson line this season to replace the Mendoza line.

Exactly. He raised his average! :thumbup: :beerme:

Keep on doing your thing, Dusty! :beerme:

Jack Burton
06-17-2008, 11:58 PM
This should seal dusty's fate, should be gone tomorrow. There is no worse manager in the big leagues as we speak.

BurgervilleBuck
06-18-2008, 09:18 AM
A 1 for 5 night for Patterson should actually probably be considered a good night for him.

You say that in jest but, according to John Fay...


Meanwhile, Corey Patterson sounded OK with his 1-for-5 in which he left four runners on base.

“I thought I had good at-bats,” he said. “You can’t worry about results. People look at charts and worry about results. You’ve got to maintain your approach. You have your ups and downs. Could I be playing better? Sure. I’ve been in this situation before. You’ve got to keep playing."

Big Hurt
06-18-2008, 09:34 AM
Dusty is not the problem with this team. Yes, he does some things that many people on RZ do not like and would not do but he also has far more information about the state of the team than we do. There isn't a manager out there that is going to turn this team into a contender.

I think this pretty much sums up my sentiment.:thumbup:

BurgervilleBuck
06-18-2008, 10:56 AM
I think this pretty much sums up my sentiment.:thumbup:

And mine as well. Due to hype and rumor, some folks have a preconditioned response to Dusty as the manager. It's easy to point out the negatives but that seems to be all that folks here want to do.

Blue
06-18-2008, 12:53 PM
And mine as well. Due to hype and rumor, some folks have a preconditioned response to Dusty as the manager. It's easy to point out the negatives but that seems to be all that folks here want to do.

Its easy to point out the negatives because there are no positives. Its as simple as that.

demas863
06-18-2008, 01:24 PM
My Chicago friends are laughing their tails off. They warned me that Baker would be a disaster. The fans there nicknamed him "Dustyf**k" which is uncalled for (even in Chicago) but it is a testament to their wrath. Amen.

BurgervilleBuck
06-18-2008, 05:09 PM
Its easy to point out the negatives because there are no positives. Its as simple as that.
So... what... Hairston isn't a positive? That the rumor that Dusty'd blow out young pitcher's arms is unfounded isn't a positive? That the rumors we heard about his preferences for vets over youth are unfounded isn't a positive?

Listen to Big Hurt. This team was not going to be a contender. I know we all would like to think the Reds were going to put a hurt in the NLC but you're not going to do it with this squad.

BurgervilleBuck
06-18-2008, 05:11 PM
My Chicago friends are laughing their tails off. They warned me that Baker would be a disaster. The fans there nicknamed him "Dustyf**k" which is uncalled for (even in Chicago) but it is a testament to their wrath. Amen.
You could put everything Cubs fans know about baseball into a Coke bottle and still have room for the cola.

757690
06-18-2008, 05:26 PM
He put Votto in the leadoff spot today. Took him too long to do this, but this is a perfect example of why you don't fire a manager this early. It takes time for him to learn his team and figure out who goes where.
Dusty makes a lot of mistakes, but he does seem to eventually learn from them. Some, like his love for Patterson, take longer than others.

757690
06-18-2008, 05:27 PM
You could put everything Cubs fans know about baseball into a Coke bottle and still have room for the cola.

IIRC, Cub fans also thought that Corey Patterson was the next Ken Griffey Jr. They loved him when he came up. Yeah, let's trust their opinions.

JayBruce4HOF
06-18-2008, 05:29 PM
It took him how many games to make ONE adjustment that the majority of RedsZone had identified as an OBVIOUS move from the beginning of the season???

And yet Dunn continues to bat where?

Blue
06-18-2008, 05:38 PM
So... what... Hairston isn't a positive? That the rumor that Dusty'd blow out young pitcher's arms is unfounded isn't a positive? That the rumors we heard about his preferences for vets over youth are unfounded isn't a positive?

Listen to Big Hurt. This team was not going to be a contender. I know we all would like to think the Reds were going to put a hurt in the NLC but you're not going to do it with this squad.

Is Jerry Hairston the alter ego of Dusty or something? Why should he get credit for Hairston's play?

I like how the other "positives" you list aren't really positives. Just because something isn't a negative doesn't make it a positive. With respect to the things you listed, being in the same position as all other teams isn't a positive. Its minimal expectation.

Here are some other "positives" you might want to attribute to Dusty:

1. He fills out a lineup card every game.
2. He puts fielders at all nine positions.
3. He makes sure all the players wear their gloves in the field and take bats to the plate.

Fantastic. How can a guy responsible for all of those positive things not deserve to stick around for 3 years?

If you would read what I say, I agree that this team certainly was not going to be a contender. It wouldn't have been no matter who was managing. That's now obvious. There's still no excuse for the nonsense he pulls every night, making the team worse than it actually is. What if this team was really good, within a game of the Cubs? His crappy management can be the difference between a bad team and a terrible team, or between a division winner and a team that finishes one game back. We've got one of these right now. Why wait around until its the other situation if we can solve the problem now?

steig
06-18-2008, 05:43 PM
Dusty deserves time to evaluate the coaches. We do not know what Dusty is planning to do after the season. It was my understanding that he kept most of the coaches on his staff as a way to help keep come continuity. He may purge the coaching staff after the season and bring in people he prefers. I believe ownership truly wants to win and will do what it takes to win, but part of building a winning team is to have stable leadership in the front office and in the managers office. The Reds front office has had a revolving door for to long, give them time to work out the roster and build the team that they want on the field. Then hope that they win.

Slyder
06-18-2008, 05:47 PM
So... what... Hairston isn't a positive? That the rumor that Dusty'd blow out young pitcher's arms is unfounded isn't a positive? That the rumors we heard about his preferences for vets over youth are unfounded isn't a positive?

Listen to Big Hurt. This team was not going to be a contender. I know we all would like to think the Reds were going to put a hurt in the NLC but you're not going to do it with this squad.

Hairston EARNED his time here. Duhhhsty didnt give him squat. I give Duhhsty 0 credit for that. The only reason he played SS was out of neccessity and the fact that Hairston earned the pt with his play. Patterson hasnt done jack to deserve anything but yet Duhhhsty takes 2 months to move him down in the lineup? He is an idiot that NEVER learns from his mistakes and CPatt is a perfect example of that.

He cannot recognize guys for what they are and continues to be the walking definition of insanity as he continues to do the same things over and over and over. Duhhsty's teams won inspite of him in SF and that his last few years in Chicago were better inclination of the manager he is.

Blue
06-18-2008, 06:04 PM
Dusty deserves time to evaluate the coaches. We do not know what Dusty is planning to do after the season. It was my understanding that he kept most of the coaches on his staff as a way to help keep come continuity. He may purge the coaching staff after the season and bring in people he prefers. I believe ownership truly wants to win and will do what it takes to win, but part of building a winning team is to have stable leadership in the front office and in the managers office. The Reds front office has had a revolving door for to long, give them time to work out the roster and build the team that they want on the field. Then hope that they win.

You can put me in the camp that wants no part of the kinds of coaches Dudepick prefers. Can you imagine who he would pick as hitting coach?

He does bring stability to the manager's office. Stable idiocy. I also believe that ownership wants to win, and will recognize that Dusty is hurting the Reds in that respect.

Hondo
06-18-2008, 06:23 PM
You guys really need to let this one go... There is no Chance, and I mean ZERO chance of him being Fired this season...

Just reality... Not trying to mess with anyone, but DudePick is here to Stay, atleast through the first Half of Next Season, then if the team is still struggling...

We can all put the Dusty Clock On...

Not trying to take the air out of anyones Sails here, just stating the obvious... This was Bob C's Hire and I am pretty sure he is going to have Walt make some changes and then, only then will Dusty be held accountable.

Blue
06-18-2008, 06:45 PM
You guys really need to let this one go... There is no Chance, and I mean ZERO chance of him being Fired this season...

Just reality... Not trying to mess with anyone, but DudePick is here to Stay, atleast through the first Half of Next Season, then if the team is still struggling...

We can all put the Dusty Clock On...

Not trying to take the air out of anyones Sails here, just stating the obvious... This was Bob C's Hire and I am pretty sure he is going to have Walt make some changes and then, only then will Dusty be held accountable.

I'm still hopeful Walt will go to Bob and say "I can't work with this idiot."

steig
06-18-2008, 08:53 PM
You can put me in the camp that wants no part of the kinds of coaches Dudepick prefers. Can you imagine who he would pick as hitting coach?

He does bring stability to the manager's office. Stable idiocy. I also believe that ownership wants to win, and will recognize that Dusty is hurting the Reds in that respect.

And who do you propose that the Reds replace Dusty with at manager? Whether you or everyone else likes it, people in baseball respect Dusty. If the Reds were to fire him early into his contract the organization would be the laughed at by baseball. No quality manager would be willing to come and work for this organization. Hiring Dusty was the Reds first real move to say we want to compete and are willing to hire the best people available to win. They didn't low ball an unproven Willie Randolph or Ron Oester this time. They went after a manager with a proven track record. I'm certain tons of baseball guys will be drolling over the Reds manager job if they fire Dusty in the middle of the season. I still have yet to see a manager that Redszone doesn't complain about.

Blue
06-18-2008, 09:20 PM
The question is, how many teams would be drooling over free agent Dusty? Who exactly were the Reds competing against for his services this offseason?

Yeah.

I've got news for you, if "baseball" is watching how he is handling his duties as Reds manager for the low-low price of $10.5 million, they're already laughing at us. The Reds would have been a lot better off offering a reasonable contract to a first-time manager than hiring this clown. "Hi. We want to compete, so we're going to hire a guy who will make the team less competitive than it actually is." How's that working out for them? Boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision. "Biggest name available" does not equate with "best person available".

I can't believe people defend this idiot. Fire him and hire someone who is not a complete moron to manage the club.

Hondo
06-18-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm still upset that they didn't give the Money to Lou Pinniella...

That is what is going to happen with Leo Mazzone... As soon as he gets hired by another team... Guess what... Dick Pole will be fired...

JayBruce4HOF
06-18-2008, 11:45 PM
And who do you propose that the Reds replace Dusty with at manager? Whether you or everyone else likes it, people in baseball respect Dusty. If the Reds were to fire him early into his contract the organization would be the laughed at by baseball. No quality manager would be willing to come and work for this organization. Hiring Dusty was the Reds first real move to say we want to compete and are willing to hire the best people available to win. They didn't low ball an unproven Willie Randolph or Ron Oester this time. They went after a manager with a proven track record. I'm certain tons of baseball guys will be drolling over the Reds manager job if they fire Dusty in the middle of the season. I still have yet to see a manager that Redszone doesn't complain about.

The Reds need to call Pete Mackanin, beg his forgiveness, and ask him to come back and take over managing the ballclub.

There you go.

These anonymous "people" you reference will work wherever they get a job offer with a contract that they deem acceptable for them.

And the Reds would have the PERFECT excuse to fire Dusty: NEW GENERAL MANAGER.

Bob just needs to cowboy up and bite the bullet and get Dudepick far, far, far away from this ballclub. :pray:

757690
06-19-2008, 12:50 AM
Hiring Dusty was the Reds first real move to say we want to compete and are willing to hire the best people available to win. They didn't low ball an unproven Willie Randolph or Ron Oester this time. They went after a manager with a proven track record. I'm certain tons of baseball guys will be drolling over the Reds manager job if they fire Dusty in the middle of the season. I still have yet to see a manager that Redszone doesn't complain about.

Don't blame all of Redzone, it really is just a bunch of trolls who have nothing better to do than to b*tch and whine about a certain player or manager. Don't worry, the more they post, the more they prove how little they understand about the game and that they should just be ignored.

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 12:54 AM
Don't blame all of Redzone, it really is just a bunch of trolls who have nothing better to do than to b*tch and whine about a certain player or manager. Don't worry, the more they post, the more they prove how little they understand about the game and that they should just be ignored.

Your "point"--whatever it is--might actually make sense and not be absolutely ridiculous if 74% of those who voted voted to KEEP Dusty Baker rather than FIRE the bum. :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

Do you understand what a HUGE majority 74%? You can rarely get 74% of people to agree on ANYTHING.

Keep trolling, though. :thumbup: :beerme:

757690
06-19-2008, 01:08 AM
Your point might actually make sense and not be absolutely ridiculous if 74% of those who voted voted to KEEP Dusty Baker rather than FIRE the bum. :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

Do you understand what a HUGE majority 74%? You can rarely get 74% of people to agree on ANYTHING.

Keep trolling, though. :thumbup: :beerme:

I already pointed out that the poll was completely meaningless due to the slanted nature of the question and the options.

I could ask the following poll

Should JayBruce4HOF be banned from Redzone for the good of the Board?

Yes: The man is an idiot, just read his post, my dog could make smarter arguments

No: I am an idiot just like JayBruce4HOF and I like his moronic rants.


Would you value or trust the results of that poll????? It is the same as yours.

And a troll is someone who makes negative posts just for the sake of starting an argument. This poll is the perfect example of trolling. Project much?

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 01:11 AM
I already pointed out that the poll was completely meaningless due to the slanted nature of the question and the options.

I could ask the following poll

Should JayBruce4HOF be banned from Redzone for the good of the Board?

Yes: The man is an idiot, just read his post, my dog could make smarter arguments

No: I am an idiot just like JayBruce4HOF and I like his moronic rants.


Would you value or trust the results of that poll????? It is the same as yours.

And a troll is someone who makes negative posts just for the sake of starting an argument. This poll is the perfect example of trolling. Project much?

You either want the man to stay as manager or you want him to go. Stop over-thinking things. :lol:

I guess 74% of the Sun Deck posters who agreed with me are trolls as well? :laugh:

Keep resorting to the troll argument, because, clearly, defending Dusty's actions ON THE FIELD would be much too difficult (impossible? :redface: )

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 01:18 AM
757690, you should try reading the Old Red Guard sometime, specifically the thread asking how your opinion of Dusty Baker has changed. Lots of trolls over there too. :laugh:

757690
06-19-2008, 01:22 AM
You either want the man to stay as manager or you want him to go. Stop over-thinking things. :lol:

I guess 74% of the Sun Deck posters who agreed with me are trolls as well? :laugh:

Keep resorting to the troll argument, because, clearly, defending Dusty's actions ON THE FIELD would be much too difficult (impossible? :redface: )


Don't worry, the more they post, the more they prove how little they understand about the game (and everything else) and that they should just be ignored.

Thank you for proving my point! Wow that was easy! :thumbup: :beerme:


Edit: I would explain how you made a fool of yourself, but it is clear you wouldn't understand it even then.

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 01:29 AM
Thank you for proving my point! Wow that was easy! :thumbup: :beerme:


Edit: I would explain how you made a fool of yourself, but it is clear you wouldn't understand it even then.

757690: Study this thread and get back to me. Try to keep the focus on BASEBALL discussion, if you're capable, instead of lame attempts at ad hominem attacks on certain posters. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69445

JayBruce4HOF
06-19-2008, 01:30 AM
Or, better yet, if you want to continue amusing us all, post one more time how much smarter you are than the rest of the board... specifically, anyone who disagrees with you. :lol:

757690
06-19-2008, 01:38 AM
757690: Study this thread and get back to me. Try to keep the focus on BASEBALL discussion, if you're capable, instead of lame attempts at ad hominem attacks on certain posters. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69445


See this thread

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1669561#post1669561

And you will see that I agree with you on this point, and you will understand why I so strongly disagree with the approach you take in attacking both Patterson and Dusty.

757690
06-19-2008, 01:40 AM
Or, better yet, if you want to continue amusing us all, post one more time how much smarter you are than the rest of the board... specifically, anyone who disagrees with you. :lol:

Not the rest of the board, just some the Dusty Haters who refuse to use facts or logic to make their arguments.

ThirdBaseCoach
06-19-2008, 07:51 AM
He put Votto in the leadoff spot today. Took him too long to do this, but this is a perfect example of why you don't fire a manager this early. It takes time for him to learn his team and figure out who goes where.

Last year, Pete knew his team right away. He didn't have the luxury DustyDude does to "learn" the team. Gimme a break.


Dusty makes a lot of mistakes, but he does seem to eventually learn from them. Some, like his love for Patterson, take longer than others.

A big league manager making $3mil or more per year should not be learning on Cincy's payroll.

Unless of course you were being sarcastic in your post.

ThirdBaseCoach
06-19-2008, 07:54 AM
Dusty deserves time to evaluate the coaches. We do not know what Dusty is planning to do after the season. It was my understanding that he kept most of the coaches on his staff as a way to help keep come continuity. He may purge the coaching staff after the season and bring in people he prefers. I believe ownership truly wants to win and will do what it takes to win, but part of building a winning team is to have stable leadership in the front office and in the managers office. The Reds front office has had a revolving door for to long, give them time to work out the roster and build the team that they want on the field. Then hope that they win.

Have an idea, meat. He had all of spring training and last off season to evaluate the coaches. He has no following, that's why he kept most of the coaches.

He has had enough time already. Time for the dude to go.

ThirdBaseCoach
06-19-2008, 07:57 AM
My Chicago friends are laughing their tails off. They warned me that Baker would be a disaster. The fans there nicknamed him "Dustyf**k" which is uncalled for (even in Chicago) but it is a testament to their wrath. Amen.

I think you are making up the part about the dude's vulgar nickname, I never heard it. However, no one in Chicago even cares about the dude to laugh at Cincy for getting conned - we moved on long ago. The dude is the worst manager in the bigs, except perhaps for Jerry Manuel, another Chicago experiment gone bad.

Jack Burton
06-19-2008, 08:12 AM
For those of you that want Dusty to stay, what do you think he does well? What can you possibly see that we all can not.

BurgervilleBuck
06-19-2008, 11:56 AM
And who do you propose that the Reds replace Dusty with at manager? Whether you or everyone else likes it, people in baseball respect Dusty. If the Reds were to fire him early into his contract the organization would be the laughed at by baseball. No quality manager would be willing to come and work for this organization. Hiring Dusty was the Reds first real move to say we want to compete and are willing to hire the best people available to win. They didn't low ball an unproven Willie Randolph or Ron Oester this time. They went after a manager with a proven track record. I'm certain tons of baseball guys will be drolling over the Reds manager job if they fire Dusty in the middle of the season. I still have yet to see a manager that Redszone doesn't complain about.
I've said the same thing but to no avail. Try all you want but you can't convince the Fire Dusty knuckleheads.

CWRed
06-19-2008, 12:13 PM
A post on the Org board by Cyclone792. If this doesn't make you mad and want Dusty out nothing will...

Before he asked by the media after Tuesday’s game, Cincinnati Reds manager Dusty Baker brought it up himself, saying he knew people wandered why.

Oh, yeah?

So why did Baker permit Corey Patterson, a lefthander hitting .193, bat against Dodger lefthander Joe Beimel, a pitcher against whom Patterson was 1 for 13 with six strikeouts.

At theime, there were runners on second and third with two outs and the Reds trailed, 2-1. Patterson bounced meekly to second base.

Baker said his reason was two-fold:

ONE - He said at the time he didn’t believe Ken Griffey Jr. was availalbe (out of the lineup with a virus), although Griffey pinch-hit in the ninth - and struck out.

And he said Patterson hits leftanders better than righthanders. Untrue. Patterson is hitting .167 against lefthanders and .199 against righthanders. Clearly, he hits neither.

TWO - Baker said he had no outfielders. Andy Phillips played outfield in spring training, but not since, and Baker said it would be unfair to him. Still, he could have played right field for a couple of innings, with Jay Bruce moving from right to center.

And shortstop Jolbert Cabrera played 16 games in the outfield for Louisville. He could have moved from shortstop to right and Paul Janish inserted a shortstop.

To me, those are feeble reasons, Illogical reasons.

Anyway, that’s Baker’s story and he is sticking to it as we sit in the press box at Great American Ball Park awaiting the second game of the Dodgers series.

The thing is - nobody is hitting. The Reds are hitting .178 on this 2-5 homestand. They’ve scored 2.3 runs a game. They are hitting .075 with runners in scoring position and are 0 for their last 11.

My Aunt Opal could hit better than that with her ironing board - and she is in a wheel chair.

The lineup hasn’t been posted yet, but if Patterson is in there I won’t be able to write tonight because there will be a mess on my laptop.
Let's take a look at both of these, especially the second reason ...

#1) Patterson hits lefties better than righties: Patterson's lifetime OPS against righties is .725 whereas it's only .647 against lefties. That's a 78 point difference for his career. Sure, it's true that Patterson has had individual seasons where the swing favored lefties, and we all know that's what Dusty will see when trying to dustify his choice of using Patterson. If Dusty has to manipulate facts to get his way, then that's exactly what he'll do.

Now #2) He only has four outfielders. This is the biggest load of BS I've ever seen. Not only has Jolbert Cabrera played 18 games in the outfield (16 in RF and 2 in LF), but he has more outfield in his major league career (297 games) than any other position. Between Cabrera's big league career and minor league career combined, he's played 445 games in the outfield.

So we've got one of two things happening. Either Dusty Baker is so misinformed about his roster that he doesn't even know what positions his players are capable of playing, or he's just a flat out liar. Take your pick, but whatever it is ... it isn't good.

Blue
06-19-2008, 12:40 PM
Not the rest of the board, just some the Dusty Haters who refuse to use facts or logic to make their arguments.

I'm sorry, but the facts and logic are all on our side. The argument "No one will want to manage the Reds if they fire Dusty" is a baseless opinion, supported by neither facts nor logic. The argument "Dusty makes moronic managerial decisions" is easily backed up by logic.

BurgervilleBuck
06-19-2008, 01:24 PM
I just thought this from Hal (http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/06/14/ddn061508askhalweb.html) was interesting...


Q Dusty Baker seems to be lacking in motivation and teaching skills. He may be good for veterans, but this is a young team that needs a teacher. I miss Pete Mackanin. — Mark, Sun Valley, Calif.

A I miss Mackanin, too, mostly for his dry humor. As Ken Griffey Jr. calls the olden days, "back in the day," players came to the majors well-schooled in fundamentals and teaching wasn't needed. How much teaching do you think Sparky Anderson did with The Big Red Machine? Now players are rushed through the minors and come to the majors without ingrained fundamentals. I see and hear Baker working and talking with players all the time, young even more than old. Mistakes on the field often come from heat-of-the-moment bad decisions and it isn't that they don't know what to do. They just don't do it. Sometimes it reminds you of a kindergarten.

Kingspoint
06-19-2008, 02:51 PM
Shut down Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo before their 2009 seasons are as worthless as their 2008 seasons.

The use and abuse of these two pitchers have taken their toll.

Jack Burton
06-19-2008, 03:25 PM
Seems like a lot of excuses as to why Dusty is terrible.

bleedsred
06-19-2008, 03:38 PM
Dusty doesn't hit, field, pitch, or run the bases...I think his lineups suck too and I think Patterson should have been hit for also, but let's be real for a minute.....no one is hitting....do we really think Jr would have knoked in the runners from 2nd and third with 2 outs.....he couldn't do it with a 3-0 count- 1 out- bases loaded situation vs the RedSox. The hitting is just all around terrible. I never thought I would long for the day for Jr and Dunn to be gone....I sure hope WJ can find a good way to spend the money when the free agents walk....
Conclusion- why fire Baker.....just make sure he doesn't ruin our young arms.

Blue
06-19-2008, 05:16 PM
I just thought this from Hal (http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2008/06/14/ddn061508askhalweb.html) was interesting...

It is interesting, but it doesn't address any problem that I have with Dusty, I don't think he doesn't teach. What he's telling them may be "swing early and swing often", but I can't say that for sure.

What I can say for sure is that he makes many many many mistakes as a manager that are pretty much inexcusable and objectively bad. I don't want to wait around for a time when this team is actually ready to compete for the Reds to realize that just average game management would make the team better.

steig
06-20-2008, 08:40 AM
Have an idea, meat. He had all of spring training and last off season to evaluate the coaches. He has no following, that's why he kept most of the coaches.

He has had enough time already. Time for the dude to go.

Stop looking at this year and take a look at the big picture. Give Dusty time with the team and for the front office to adjust the roster. The team you see on the field today will probably be drastically different on opening day 2009.

Jack Burton
06-20-2008, 09:12 AM
The state of this team is unacceptable, fire Dusty and go interim. Let WJ pick his guy. Dusty is a clueless moron, he's killing this franchise. He is, by far, the worst manager in the big leagues.

ThirdBaseCoach
06-20-2008, 09:46 AM
Stop looking at this year and take a look at the big picture. Give Dusty time with the team and for the front office to adjust the roster. The team you see on the field today will probably be drastically different on opening day 2009.

As the team's GM, Steig, how much time do you give a $3mil per year manager?

BurgervilleBuck
06-20-2008, 10:23 AM
As the team's GM, Steig, how much time do you give a $3mil per year manager?
More than one season, that's for sure.

Not Steig.

steig
06-20-2008, 12:04 PM
As the team's GM, Steig, how much time do you give a $3mil per year manager?

I would give him at least 2.5 of the 3 years on his contract. First, it's the GM's job to give the manager a roster that can win. Ownership may not have thought the roster was a winning roster or they wouldn't have fired Krivskey so early in the season. If the GM feels that he has given the manager a roster that can compete and win with any team in the league and make a solid playoff run then he has done his job. If the manger can't win with the best roster that the GM can put together with his teams constraints then you consider firing him. This team has not won consistently since mid to late 90's. I don't think Dusty is the problem. Griffey and Dunn are both having bad seasons. ( I don't want to get into the entire Dunn debate but his average is down below .230) I believed this team could have a record over .500 but that was if we got similar numbers from Griffey and Dunn this season. Griffey looks cooked so far this season. Phillips and Encarnacion have been inconsistent at best. I think Walt should be given a chance to remodel this team over the next two years and then see how Dusty is helping with the progression of the team. As a fan I don't want to see this team strive for .500 or maybe winning the division. Those mean nothing to me, I want to see the Reds in the World Series again and I think patience is important in building the team.