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View Full Version : Things We Learned On This Homestand



Mutaman
06-17-2008, 11:31 PM
1. Jerry Harriston Jr is an important player on this team.

2. Putting Jay Bruce in the Hall Of Fame after a few weeks might be a liittle premature.

3. Paul Janish can't hit.

4. Homer Bailey can't pitch.

5. Don't let Mike Lincoln go more than one inning.

6. Our great young prospects might be a little overated.

7. The Reds aren't very good.

JayBruce4HOF
06-17-2008, 11:34 PM
#1) Dusty is just as clueless now as he's always been.

Mutaman
06-17-2008, 11:41 PM
#1) Dusty is just as clueless now as he's always been.

How imaginative. Yeah its all Dusty's fault. If Walt would just fire him and Dick Pole and replace them with Ron Oester and Leo Whats his name, this team would be in the world series. Please.

JayBruce4HOF
06-18-2008, 12:00 AM
How imaginative. Yeah its all Dusty's fault. If Walt would just fire him and Dick Pole and replace them with Ron Oester and Leo Whats his name, this team would be in the world series. Please.

Nice strawmen. :thumbup:

Jack Burton
06-18-2008, 01:02 AM
#1) Dusty is just as clueless now as he's always been.

Agreed. FIRE DUSTY!

Fullboat
06-18-2008, 02:03 AM
8) Ex-Cubs still killing us.:thumbdown

ChatterRed
06-18-2008, 02:03 AM
I still believe that Dusty has cost this team atleast 5 games with mismanagement.

Which means they would be over .500 at this point. This team has alot of good things going for it, but they shoot themselves in the foot because the manager tolerates it.

JayBruce4HOF
06-18-2008, 02:11 AM
I still believe that Dusty has cost this team atleast 5 games with mismanagement.

Which means they would be over .500 at this point. This team has alot of good things going for it, but they shoot themselves in the foot because the manager tolerates it.

No way, you're crazy, the manager isn't the problem. ::sarcasm added:: ;)

Blue
06-18-2008, 02:23 AM
I still believe that Dusty has cost this team atleast 5 games with mismanagement.

Which means they would be over .500 at this point. This team has alot of good things going for it, but they shoot themselves in the foot because the manager tolerates it.

I agree 100%, and being responsible for 5 losses is probably twice as much as any other manager.

757690
06-18-2008, 03:32 AM
I still believe that Dusty has cost this team atleast 5 games with mismanagement.

Which means they would be over .500 at this point. This team has alot of good things going for it, but they shoot themselves in the foot because the manager tolerates it.

I was just as angry as everyone else when Dusty let Patterson hit in the 7th. I don't agree with his argument that he didn't want to put an infielder in the outfield for the last two innings. While that is a bad idea, it is meaningless unless the Reds tie the game so really, there is nothing to lose.

That said I would like to make a few points about the statement about Dusty costing the team at least five victories:

It is a ridiculous assertion, naturally backed up by zero evidence. As I have said over and over again, a manager makes over a hundred decisions every game. And that is only a small part of his job.

Over the course of a season, a retarded monkey can find 5, 10, 50 mistakes that a manager makes that in isolation seems to lead to the team losing a game. But for every mistake that you find, I will find 10, 20 or 100 decisions over that same time period, that the same manager made that helped the team win a game, and some single decisions that helped the team win many games.

For example, if you take away Patterson, you have to take away Hairston. Neither would be on the team if Dusty were not the manager. However many loses Patterson is responsible for, (and to be honest, there is no real way to determine that number) I think everyone will agree that Hairston is responsible for close to if not more wins.

Dusty's lineups have been tough to handle, but his handling of the bullpen has been the best the Reds have had since Pinella.

His sticking with Patterson is frustrating, but he also stuck with Votto, Dunn and EE during extended slumps.

Dusty has had only one consistent starting pitcher, a fourth and fifth string SS playing everyday, his two backup outfielders on the DL, three catchers, none of them everyday catchers, two lefthanded firstbaseman, and was not given his best player out of spring training for money reasons, and he still has the team only 5 games under .500 and still in contention for the wild card. Narron, Miley and Boone would have had this team 15 games below .500 at this point.

Every manager the Reds have had, including Sparky and Lou, the two best in my opinion, have made decisions that have driven me mad. But I understand that you have to accept the manager as a package deal. You accept Sparky's quick hook, and over managing, and you accept Lou's need for a speedy centerfielder (remember Dave Martinez?) and a lefty specialist in the pen (remember Scott Ruskin) even if they haveno talent. You do this because they make up for it in other ways, other ways that aren't as easy to quantify, and thus not as easy to whine about.

I see a lot of bad in Dusty, but I also see a lot of good. I am willing to give him a full year before I draw any solid conclusions about him.

ChatterRed
06-18-2008, 08:52 AM
If I had been documenting every game, I'm sure I would have the facts to back up my assertion. His lineup construction and substitutions are horrible.

You act like this team would do no better with another manager, and I flat out disagree.

But hey, it's a message board full of opinions.

I disagree with yours. I strongly believe the manager is costing this team ballgames.

And how do you know Hairston and Cabrera wouldn't be up? Did Dusty invite them to Spring Training? I'm pretty sure WK did. Had we had a different manager, Hairston may have been up sooner.

BurgervilleBuck
06-18-2008, 10:14 AM
9) Going 1-5 is, for one player, considered "good at-bats".

improbus
06-18-2008, 10:19 AM
So it's Dusty's fault that:
-the Reds are on their third and fourth SS.
-Junior has been terrible
-The Reds are hitting .200 in June (w/ .300 OBP) (it's not all Patterson guys)
-He has no fifth starter
-Their Ace (Harang) is 3-9 with a 4.10 ERA
-Cueto and Arroyo play Dr. Jeckyl - Mr. Hyde from start to start.
-He has the 2nd worst defensive team in the NL (54 errors so far, Colorado had 68 last season...)
-Dunn is hitting .150 in June
-Phillips is hitting .179 in June
-Junior is hitting .222 in June

Yep, sounds like some lineup changes will make a difference.

Do we hit the .150 guy 3rd, 4th, or 5th?
Do we hit the .179 guy 3rd, 4th, or 5th?
Do we hit the .222 guy 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

Those are some great options...
Cut the guy some slack. This is not a playoff team. This may not even be a .500 team.

UK Reds Fan
06-18-2008, 10:20 AM
If Dusty weren't here, true we would not have Patterson nor have Hairston...

but would any other manager continue to toss out Patterson in CF given his terrible production?

but would any other manager continue to toss out any replacement to Hairston if that person were hitting so awfully?

Regardless of players that follow the manager, etc...to urge Krivs to sign Patterson for 3 Million, but then play that player after so terrible of a half year is ridiculous and even put that player in lead off spot.

zakthemack
06-18-2008, 10:23 AM
For me it's become apparent that we need to start transitioning Ross to the #1 catcher position. Paul Bako did an ABSOLUTELY SUPERB job through May, and that cannot be denied, but I just get the feeling watchng that we rode him to hard. It's June and it just seems his legs are starting to go, I think it's time work Ross in as the starter.

Bruce is human, an above average human, but he's not going to hit .800.

Corey Patterson is still the worst player on the team by some margin.

Votto is going to be subject to erroneous errors, that will frustrate the hell out of fans, but in the years to come will likely be a franchise first baseman.

Jared Burton should always pitch 7 and 8, Corderro 9. Anything else opens you up to disaster.

Bronson Arroyo could legitimately steal 40 bases a season, as evidenced by his being our first choice pinch runner.

Hairston is the only legit leadoff guy we have, BP is not a cleanup hitter. Should probably go BP, Bruce, then Dunn, 2-4.

Big Hurt
06-18-2008, 10:28 AM
1. Jerry Harriston Jr is an important player on this team.

2. Putting Jay Bruce in the Hall Of Fame after a few weeks might be a liittle premature.

3. Paul Janish can't hit.

4. Homer Bailey can't pitch.

5. Don't let Mike Lincoln go more than one inning.

6. Our great young prospects might be a little overated.

7. The Reds aren't very good.

Nice job Muta - my observations, too.:beerme:

durl
06-18-2008, 12:03 PM
I can't say that the Reds poor offense is Dusty's fault but I do know that his approach to offense is to swing early in the count because the averages say you're more likely to get a hit than later in the count. What I want to see is how this Reds team fares batting early in the count versus later. Averages are one thing but they are not the ONLY thing.

realreds1
06-18-2008, 12:15 PM
12.) If you wanna Cincinnati Reds flag to hang on your porch, get there at the crack of noon or else all 20,000 allotted will already be taken. :cry:

bounty37h
06-18-2008, 01:42 PM
^realred, or you can buy one on your own at the store, and go to a game not on promo night-no one else will be ther eeither, and you can sit where you want. If the Reds didnt do promo nights, there wouldnt be any fans at all-product of bad baseball, and beaten down fans.

realreds1
06-18-2008, 01:50 PM
^realred, or you can buy one on your own at the store

They're on ebay for about $15 each. I still like the word "free"; it has a nice ring to it. But thanks anyway! :wave:

bounty37h
06-18-2008, 04:12 PM
They're on ebay for about $15 each. I still like the word "free"; it has a nice ring to it. But thanks anyway! :wave:

Wasnt being rude to you-sorry if it came off that way- making lite of giveaway games being sold out, with no one there for the rest.

realreds1
06-18-2008, 07:25 PM
Wasnt being rude to you-sorry if it came off that way- making lite of giveaway games being sold out, with no one there for the rest.

Not intended to be taken that way. I was just being snarky in my original post. I hate to say it, but lately the "freebies" have been the only things worth driving 3 hours to see a game. Saturday's debacle full-of-errors was cringe-worthy.

CWRed
06-19-2008, 01:22 PM
How imaginative. Yeah its all Dusty's fault. If Walt would just fire him and Dick Pole and replace them with Ron Oester and Leo Whats his name, this team would be in the world series. Please.

No it's not ALL his fault. But the apologizing for his ineptness has got to stop. Dusty is a lazy, stubborn, and clueless manager who seems to not only not pat attention to how to get the most out of his players, but also seems to lie about certain things when he's asked about it to cover his stupidity. For example that CP is better against lefties than righties. I could go on but I just started puking blood.