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BuckeyeRedleg
08-12-2008, 10:13 AM
All I'm trying to say is, the only disadvantage to having him on a Major League contract would be that he takes up a spot on the 40-man roster. Seeing as how the Reds are willing to use these spots on players like Javier Valentin and Andy Phillips, I don't think it would cripple the organization too much.

Exactly. And I'm not sure why the fuss over that. It's not like the 40-man is filled with talent.

If you look at Alonso's Miami career and compare it with Ryan Braun's, he is better in every offensive category. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alonso raking with the big club (like Braun did) by his 2nd year anniversary of being drafted. I would even bet that he'll be starting in April of 2010.

All the more reason to shop Votto.

camisadelgolf
08-12-2008, 10:17 AM
If Votto can OPS .850 and play just as good defense as Adam Dunn, I'd go ahead and leave him there and not worry about shopping him around too much.

princeton
08-12-2008, 10:19 AM
Maybe he secretly is... and going to the Dominican Republic is a cover...:dunno:

why would we need to be secretive about signing our own draft pick?

mbgrayson
08-12-2008, 03:00 PM
From an article by Jim Callis dated August 11, 2008 in Baseball America (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/ask-ba/2008/266659.html):

We're going through the usual last-minute rhetoric, with both clubs and players laying it on thick. Pirates president Frank Coonelly worries that "grossly exceeding the well-established market for drafted players" would harm his club's ability to build a winner. (So would not signing Alvarez.) Yonder Alonso, the seventh overall pick by the Reds, says his chances of returning to Miami for his senior year are 50-50. (I'll take that bet at even money.)

With the exception of Wake Forest first baseman Allan Dykstra , who has a hip condition that worries the Padres, I believe all of the unsigned first-rounders will agree to terms before the deadline. Here's how I see it all unfolding:


• Miami first baseman Alonso, Georgia shortstop Gordon Beckham (No. 8, White Sox) and South Carolina first baseman Justin Smoak (No. 11, Rangers) all appear to be angling for big league contracts, while the second tier of college bats typically has received slot money or slightly more. I believe all three will turn pro, and if they do get larger-than-precedent deals, it will set the bar higher for the future.

IslandRed
08-12-2008, 03:08 PM
I've already mentioned this in another thread, but if the Reds are going to give him a Major League contract, here is what they'd need to do.

Let's say Alonso signs a Major League contract on August 15th. The Reds could immediately option him. Would this waste an option year? Actually, no. As long as he spends less than 20 days in the minors, an option year is not used.

Then, on September 1st, the Reds could call him up and never use him (or play him every day--it doesn't matter). This way, he doesn't use an option year for 2008

I didn't know that. Nicely done.

WebScorpion
08-12-2008, 03:19 PM
I just love those Major League deals...they've worked out so well for us in the past. :rolleyes: Dane Sardinha and David Espinosa were surefire Major Leaguers too. :p:

redhawk61
08-12-2008, 03:26 PM
I just love those Major League deals...they've worked out so well for us in the past. :rolleyes: Dane Sardinha and David Espinosa were surefire Major Leaguers too. :p:
put it this way, whose is a better use of being on the 40, Yonder or Andy Phillips...

bucksfan2
08-12-2008, 03:35 PM
put it this way, whose is a better use of being on the 40, Yonder or Andy Phillips...

Yonder has done exactly what as a professional?

Not that I think Andy Phillips is anything special but he did make his way through the minors to the majors. As of now Yonder has done nothing as a professional.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-12-2008, 03:48 PM
Yonder has done exactly what as a professional?

Not that I think Andy Phillips is anything special but he did make his way through the minors to the majors. As of now Yonder has done nothing as a professional.


What difference does it make what Yonder has done as a professional? With that logic, we'd never invest in anyone that's not "proved" their worth as a professional.

Look at Ryan Braun and Alonso's career numbers at Miami.

Alonso is as near a sure thing offensively as there is.

bucksfan2
08-12-2008, 04:10 PM
What difference does it make what Yonder has done as a professional? With that logic, we'd never invest in anyone that's not "proved" their worth as a professional.

Look at Ryan Braun and Alonso's career numbers at Miami.

Alonso is as near a sure thing offensively as there is.

Yet MLB draft picks fail at an alarming rate. While Braun and Alonso's number may have been similar in college how does that translate to the professional game. Braun made the proper adjustments, does that mean Alonso will?

There is not such thing as a sure thing. Everyone drafted in the first round has talent. Everyone drafted in the first round is pegged to make it to the bigs. Not everyone does so. Alonso has had a great college career at a top baseball college, how that translates to the professional game is anybody's guess.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Yet MLB draft picks fail at an alarming rate. While Braun and Alonso's number may have been similar in college how does that translate to the professional game. Braun made the proper adjustments, does that mean Alonso will?

There is not such thing as a sure thing. Everyone drafted in the first round has talent. Everyone drafted in the first round is pegged to make it to the bigs. Not everyone does so. Alonso has had a great college career at a top baseball college, how that translates to the professional game is anybody's guess.


And a GM's job is weigh all of that take a risk and make a decision.

It's not rocket science. Millions of dollars are wasted on guys with less potential every year. For an organization that was so eager to drop 6 million down the crapper with Dusty Baker and Corey Patterson, I'm not sure what the big deal is with this.

If you weren't planning to give into his demands why draft him in the first place?

BuckeyeRedleg
08-12-2008, 05:16 PM
bucksfan.

You can take Andy Phillips and I'll take Yonder Alonso. Okay?

bucksfan2
08-13-2008, 09:49 AM
And a GM's job is weigh all of that take a risk and make a decision.

It's not rocket science. Millions of dollars are wasted on guys with less potential every year. For an organization that was so eager to drop 6 million down the crapper with Dusty Baker and Corey Patterson, I'm not sure what the big deal is with this.

If you weren't planning to give into his demands why draft him in the first place?

Yes every year teams waste money on major league players. Patterson, who the Reds wasted ~3M on this season was once considered a top prospect. If you look at every draft since 2000 there are some names I have never heard of who were drafted very high. Every draft has a handful of top 10 picks that fail.

Andy Phillips isn't anything special. But a guy like Andy Phillips is going to find himself on every team's roster. If Alonso finds himself on the 40 man roster he isn't taking a spot away from Phillips rather a spot away from a guy like Dickerson.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 11:06 AM
7. 1B Yonder Alonso, Cincinnati Reds
This one will likely go down to the very last minute as well, if it gets done at all. Don't expect it to be resolved cheaply, either. The Reds are looking to pay slot money, in the $3 million neighborhood, while Alonso is believed to be asking for at least twice that. He told the Miami Herald last week that he was willing to go back to school for another year, "break some records and go back to Omaha [the College World Series] and finish the job. I always said if worse comes to worse, I'm going back to school." Alonso wants close to $7 million, so look for some fireworks on this one before a conclusion is reached.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080812&content_id=444826&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

dougdirt
08-13-2008, 11:18 AM
7. 1B Yonder Alonso, Cincinnati Reds
This one will likely go down to the very last minute as well, if it gets done at all. Don't expect it to be resolved cheaply, either. The Reds are looking to pay slot money, in the $3 million neighborhood, while Alonso is believed to be asking for at least twice that. He told the Miami Herald last week that he was willing to go back to school for another year, "break some records and go back to Omaha [the College World Series] and finish the job. I always said if worse comes to worse, I'm going back to school." Alonso wants close to $7 million, so look for some fireworks on this one before a conclusion is reached.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080812&content_id=444826&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Slot money for his spot is actually 2.3 million. I just can't see him getting 5 million, much less 7.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 11:20 AM
7. 1B Yonder Alonso, Cincinnati Reds
This one will likely go down to the very last minute as well, if it gets done at all. Don't expect it to be resolved cheaply, either. The Reds are looking to pay slot money, in the $3 million neighborhood, while Alonso is believed to be asking for at least twice that. He told the Miami Herald last week that he was willing to go back to school for another year, "break some records and go back to Omaha [the College World Series] and finish the job. I always said if worse comes to worse, I'm going back to school." Alonso wants close to $7 million, so look for some fireworks on this one before a conclusion is reached.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080812&content_id=444826&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jspno reason to give in. The changes to the current system give Alonso little leverage. 7 is a high draft position, tons of factors could easily drop him below that next year and it moves everything in his career one year to the right.

I for one hope the Reds hold the line, if he wants to go back to school, so be it.

Kc61
08-13-2008, 11:37 AM
I just love those Major League deals...they've worked out so well for us in the past. :rolleyes: Dane Sardinha and David Espinosa were surefire Major Leaguers too. :p:

This is very different, as I understand it.

Sardinha and Espinosa took major league deals instead of huge bonuses, as I recall. The arbitration clock started sooner, but the Reds didn't shell out big up front money. At least, that's how I recall the press reports.

A major league deal without a big bonus helps the team. The Reds wound up saving money on those deals, as I understand them from the press reports.

The current crop wants up front money and a major league deal. Much more of a risk for the signing team.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 11:43 AM
This is very different, as I understand it.

Sardinha and Espinosa took major league deals instead of huge bonuses, as I recall. they took major league deals so the Reds could spread their bonus money out over 2-3 years because the Reds didn't have the money(right) to pay it in a lump sum all at once.

texasdave
08-13-2008, 11:59 AM
from Jim Callis of Baseball America:


Miami first baseman Alonso, Georgia shortstop Gordon Beckham (No. 8, White Sox) and South Carolina first baseman Justin Smoak (No. 11, Rangers) all appear to be angling for big league contracts, while the second tier of college bats typically has received slot money or slightly more. I believe all three will turn pro, and if they do get larger-than-precedent deals, it will set the bar higher for the future.

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 12:09 PM
bucksfan.

You can take Andy Phillips and I'll take Yonder Alonso. Okay?

What you meant to say was "You take Andy Phillips plus the 7th pick next year and I'll take Yonder Alonso."

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 12:57 PM
Either Alonso's family is already rich or he is stupid (if he doesn't sign).

He'll have zero leverage next year and if he's taken in the same spot he'll have to take slot ($2.5M).

He will lose money.

The Reds need to call his bluff and he'll eventually sign. If not, you really have to wonder what type of background they did on the kid. No reason to walk away from a draft without a 1st round pick, unless they did on purpose because of the Duran signing and potential Rodriguez signing.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
What you meant to say was "You take Andy Phillips plus the 7th pick next year and I'll take Yonder Alonso."

I'll take Yonder Alonso now (and get him in the system now) and then concentrate on my lone top 7 pick next year.

There is always an Andy Phillips available.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 01:00 PM
I don't see Alonso as having "no" leverage. Less, maybe. But if he re-enters the draft next year, he might get the same kind of money and a slot on the MLB roster of an actual contending club.

It's a risk to put it off, but it's not a terrible risk.

They should split the difference and get him signed. Each side should sting a bit after negotiations. But the bigger picture should remain in focus.

The Reds need Alonso probably more than the reverse, sadly.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 01:03 PM
I don't see Alonso as having "no" leverage. Less, maybe. But if he re-enters the draft next year, he might get the same kind of money and a slot on the MLB roster of an actual contending club.

It's a risk to put it off, but it's not a terrible risk.


That would mean he wouldn't be a top ten, maybe top 15 pick and he would lose money as a result.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:03 PM
I don't see Alonso as having "no" leverage. Less, maybe. But if he re-enters the draft next year, he might get the same kind of money and a slot on the MLB roster of an actual contending club.

It's a risk to put it off, but it's not a terrible risk.

How can he have any leverage? All he could do is sit out again. He certainly won't get the contract he wants now. He may even lose money.

And the odds are he is top 10 pick (probably top5), which would probably mean he's not going anywhere that is contending any sooner than Cincinnati.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 01:04 PM
That would mean he wouldn't be a top ten, maybe top 15 pick and he would lose money as a result.

Maybe he'd lose out on the 7 million he's hoping for, but it's possible he could get more than the supposed 3 the Reds might be offering (though I imagine the Reds are offering less than that).

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:05 PM
Maybe he'd lose out on the 7 million he's hoping for, but it's possible he could get more than the supposed 3 the Reds might be offering.


How? Why would a club do that if they don't have to?

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:06 PM
$3M in the bank now will be worth more than $3M next June as well.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 01:07 PM
as a senior draftee you have no leverage, you can't put starting your career off indefinitely and keep going back to the draft. Since the comp pick is essentially the same pick next year it gives teams a lot more leverage, especially with 3-4 players threatening to go back to school further boosting the talent pool.

Odds of getting picked higher and getting the extra few million to make it worth the effort and moving your career out are extremely small.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:10 PM
as a senior draftee you have no leverage, you can't put starting your career off indefinitely and keep going back to the draft. Since the comp pick is essentially the same pick next year it gives teams a lot more leverage, especially with 3-4 players threatening to go back to school further boosting the talent pool.

Odds of getting picked higher and getting the extra few million to make it worth the effort and moving your career out are extremely small.

Exactly.

And I wasn't even thinking of the others threatening to go back. He actually has little to zero leverage now. He should take the $3M and play some ball.

If the Reds don't sign him they can just get him again and he'll lose money. Maybe the college life is worth it.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 01:11 PM
Alonso is basically Matt Laporta(OPS 1.399 as a senior, Alonso 1.311 this year). If he goes back and has an monster senior year like Laporta. He still is likely to be drafted around 7 and get a bonus in the 2-3M range. Laporta got a little over 2M.

Alonso can go back if he wants but there is little upside in it while incurring substantial downside risk.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 01:20 PM
I'm sure the scenery is very nice in Miami. Then you have your teammates and the whole college life. Best times in life. Add in a family with money and I guess I could understand going back, but there is a bunch of risk and even if he has a great year, he still gets the same money next year.

flyer85
08-13-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm sure the scenery is very nice in Miami. Then you have your teammates and the whole college life. Best times in life. Add in a family with money and I guess I could understand going back, but there is a bunch of risk and even if he has a great year, he still gets the same money next year.
rewarding teams with an unsigned first rounder with a comp pick of draft slot +1 takes a huge amount of leverage away from the player. unless the player is an unreal talent drafted in the first couple of spots the team can get something comparable or possibly even better next year.

joe51391
08-13-2008, 01:33 PM
I really hope we get him signed so he can get up here soon
:beerme:

bucksfan2
08-13-2008, 01:45 PM
I'm sure the scenery is very nice in Miami. Then you have your teammates and the whole college life. Best times in life. Add in a family with money and I guess I could understand going back, but there is a bunch of risk and even if he has a great year, he still gets the same money next year.

Does his family have money? His dad was a Cuban defector so he doesn't have a long family tradition of being weathy. The way I see it his senior year of college his leverage.

On the other hand I doubt Alonso and his skillset would end up being drafted much higher than he was. He isn't a pitcher, doesn't play a marque position, and isn't a great athlete. IMO it would have to be a very weak draft class in order for Alonso to increase his draft position after another year in college.

Caveat Emperor
08-13-2008, 01:59 PM
I'd go slightly above slot (not more than $1m) as a gesture of goodwill to the kid forgoing his senior year of school -- but this kid isn't worth breaking the bank over considering that he doesn't pitch and doesn't play a premium-defensive position.

Teams should take a hard-line stance on bonus and slot money. This isn't the NFL -- these kids aren't going to help your team immediately and many of them never live up to anything close to their potential. No sense in paying them more money than quality veteran major leaguers before they even suit up in rookie ball.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 02:14 PM
Does his family have money? His dad was a Cuban defector so he doesn't have a long family tradition of being weathy. The way I see it his senior year of college his leverage.

I'm not sure. I was saying that would be one of the scenarios that would make sense (along with scenery, college life, etc.) as far as making the decision easier for him to not fold and go back to school.


If it's strictly about the money, he has little to no leverage. Going back to school will not scare the Reds at this point, because he'll be available again (as well as Smoak, Beckham, etc.) in 2009.

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 03:25 PM
It's just smart negotiations by Alonso. Nothing more, nothing less.

He'll sign August 15th and his waiting will have earned him extra money from the REDS. He'll move past it from there.

He knows that he's going to be called up in September of 2009. He'll be on the Super-Fast Track. He'll probably start next season at Chattanooga and if he doesn't he'll only spend 2 weeks at Sarasota. By July, he'll be in Louisville.

The contract negotiations will be long forgotten.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 03:35 PM
If he calls the Reds' bluff, the Reds are still more screwed than Alonso is (no minor league hitters to speak of, sputtering of recent call-ups Bruce and Votto, four teams in the Central well in front of the Reds whose offenses are locked-up/affordable/young--well Houston's isn't young, but they are about trillion times tougher).

LoganBuck
08-13-2008, 03:35 PM
It's just smart negotiations by Alonso. Nothing more, nothing less.

He'll sign August 15th and his waiting will have earned him extra money from the REDS. He'll move past it from there.

He knows that he's going to be called up in September of 2009. He'll be on the Super-Fast Track. He'll probably start next season at Chattanooga and if he doesn't he'll only spend 2 weeks at Sarasota. By July, he'll be in Louisville.

The contract negotiations will be long forgotten.

September of 2009? I think he could get a cup of coffee September 2008.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 03:36 PM
If he calls the Reds' bluff, the Reds are still more screwed than Alonso is (no minor league hitters to speak of, sputtering of recent call-ups Bruce and Votto, four teams in the Central well in front of the Reds whose offenses are locked-up/affordable/young--well Houston's isn't young, but they are about trillion times tougher).

Neftali Soto and Todd Frazier say hi.

fearofpopvol1
08-13-2008, 03:45 PM
Neftali Soto and Todd Frazier say hi.

I think he meant in the high minors, but point well taken.

I think those 2 kids (especially Frazier) will be good players.

texasdave
08-13-2008, 04:46 PM
If he sits out a year and plays his senior year at Miami does that push back his major league debut by a year? Just curious. If so I wonder how much shortening his major league career by one year is gonna cost him? I think his best option would have been to sign immediately after Miami was eliminated in the NCAA tournament and push his way through the Reds farm system as quickly as possible.

redhawk61
08-13-2008, 06:22 PM
beckham inked today no word on money, could set the bar up

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 07:58 PM
I also talked to someone familiar with the Yonder Alonso negotiations. The word "stalemate" was used. Alonso is still asking for a big league deal. That's the case with several top players. The deadline is Friday.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a666082c2-d967-464b-a0b9-69305c89177e&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Buckeye33
08-13-2008, 08:20 PM
Latest from Fay:

I talked to Yonder Alonso a little bit ago. He was sticking to his tough stance, saying he wouldn't sign unless the Reds gave him what he wanted, which is believed to be a big league contract worth $7 million.

Before I hung up, I put it to him like this:

"If the Reds come to you Friday with a $3 million big league contract, what will happen?"

"You'll be writing a story about me going to the independent league," he said.

I thought this would get done. But what I hadn't count on is the ARod factor. Alex Rodriguez, that Alex Rodriguez, is Alonso workout partner and friend. ARod has told Alonso if things don't work to his liking, he welcome to live with Rodiguez next season and play for Newark or Long Island of the Atlantic League. My guess ARod doesn't live in fifth floor walk-up.

There hasn't been a lot of back and forth between Alonso's representatives and the Reds. But he did not rule out signing.

"I try to stay positive," he said. "They lost two big hitters. I'd love to play there. But hey knew what I wanted when they draft me. If they weren't going to give it to, why did they take me. They knew what they got themselves into."

If the Reds doen't sign Alonso, they get the eighth pick in next year's draft.

redhawk61
08-13-2008, 08:25 PM
personally, I don't see what the Reds problem is. So the Reds obviously knew he wanted 7 and a ML contract. They offered Iona 5 mil and an ml contract that he turned down, he is a 16 year old, that they offered 5 mil!!!:eek:. add that 5 mil plus the 3 mil they are offering and they have more than enough to sign him for what he wants,as a college proven bat. I believe the guy will be worth every penny. get it done reds

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 08:28 PM
The Reds are going to look like idiots considering they knew how much money Alonso wanted and yet still took him despite Gordon Beckham still available.

mound_patrol
08-13-2008, 08:29 PM
There's no way i'd give him 7 million dollars. Once he told me he wouldn't budge I'd say goodluck in Newark.

redhawk61
08-13-2008, 08:31 PM
There's no way i'd give him 7 million dollars. Once he told me he wouldn't budge I'd say goodluck in Newark.
why not, you pay what you have to pay, even if it over the norm to get good players in your organization if you want to win. The money fits in the budget. Cheaping out is how we have had the past 8 years

crazyredfan40
08-13-2008, 08:34 PM
We gotta sign him...We were going to give some young pitcher 5 million or so from the dominican...

Can't pass on a hitter like him...It gives you flexibility with trading some guys, like EE, Votto...

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 08:36 PM
The Reds have absolutely got to sign him. They knew what he was asking for and still chose him. Not signing him sets the organization further back.

Kc61
08-13-2008, 08:40 PM
According to an earlier post, Alonso said last week he might go back to college, go to the CWS again, and finish the job in Omaha. Now, it's the Independent League.

Reds do need to sign him, but Alonso doesn't have great options either. Deal should get done.

GBeckham reportedly took a $2.6 million bonus. That doesn't help Alonso, whose demand seems out of line.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 08:52 PM
Signing Alonso a 'priority' for Reds
Cincy, Miami product have until Friday's midnight ET deadline
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

PITTSBURGH -- Both the Reds and Yonder Alonso are on the clock.

Major League clubs have until a midnight ET deadline on Friday to sign players selected during the 2008 First-Year Player Draft. As of Wednesday, the Reds and Alonso -- a University of Miami first baseman and the No. 7 overall pick -- were not close to coming to terms on a contract.

Reds scouting director Chris Buckley declined to detail the negotiations.

"I don't want to get into it but we're still a bit apart," Buckley said. "We're working and trying to get it done. We're hopeful we'll get him out there."

Cincinnati isn't alone with its stalemate. Ten clubs have yet to get their first-rounders in the fold -- many of them are top-10 picks, like Alonso. Perhaps activity will pick up following Wednesday's White Sox signing of Gordon Beckham, who landed just behind Alonso as the No. 8 overall selection. Terms were not immediately known.

"Hopefully, some other guys might sign and that could help us," Buckley said. "It's getting close to the deadline and agents are taking the dance until Friday. We'll see who blinks."

If a deal isn't reached, the Reds would lose their rights to Alonso, who would likely return to Miami for his senior season and re-enter the Draft next year. The 22-year-old told the Miami Herald last week that he was willing to do that. He could also opt to play professionally in an independent league. Either option is a risk, should he get injured or see his Draft stock fall.

Reports say that Alonso is seeking $7 million and possibly a Major League contract, which would require Cincinnati to place him on the 40-man roster. The Reds are believed to want to sign him according to the slot system, which could keep the bonus in the $2-3 million range.

"Our preference is to do a Minor League contract," Buckley said.

A message was left with Alonso's advisor, agent Greg Genske

By rule, the Reds would get a first round compensation pick exactly one spot later next year if they are unable to ink Alonso. That means they would get the eighth overall selection, in addition to their regular pick. Based on the Reds' current record, that would mean two picks in the top 10.

"We're optimistic. If not, we'll take the Draft pick," Buckley said. "I can't say I know for sure we'll sign him. If we don't, we'll have two first-round picks next year. Obviously, our priority is to sign."

Buckley, Reds general manager Walt Jocketty and assistant GM Bob Miller are leading the club's negotiations. Jocketty has been in the Dominican Republic on a scouting trip, but was scheduled to return to Cincinnati on Wednesday night.

During his junior season, Alonso batted .370 with 24 home runs and 72 RBIs. He participated with the Hurricanes in the College World Series.

So far, the Reds have signed 31 of their 50 Draft picks this year. Signing the 32nd guy, Alonso, has clearly been the most challenging.

Tick tock, tick tock.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080813&content_id=3302644&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Lockdwn11
08-13-2008, 08:57 PM
Latest from Fay:

I talked to Yonder Alonso a little bit ago. He was sticking to his tough stance, saying he wouldn't sign unless the Reds gave him what he wanted, which is believed to be a big league contract worth $7 million.

Before I hung up, I put it to him like this:

"If the Reds come to you Friday with a $3 million big league contract, what will happen?"

"You'll be writing a story about me going to the independent league," he said.

I thought this would get done. But what I hadn't count on is the ARod factor. Alex Rodriguez, that Alex Rodriguez, is Alonso workout partner and friend. ARod has told Alonso if things don't work to his liking, he welcome to live with Rodiguez next season and play for Newark or Long Island of the Atlantic League. My guess ARod doesn't live in fifth floor walk-up.

There hasn't been a lot of back and forth between Alonso's representatives and the Reds. But he did not rule out signing.

"I try to stay positive," he said. "They lost two big hitters. I'd love to play there. But hey knew what I wanted when they draft me. If they weren't going to give it to, why did they take me. They knew what they got themselves into."

If the Reds doen't sign Alonso, they get the eighth pick in next year's draft.


If thats really the way he feel I say screw him let him go live with A Rod.

mound_patrol
08-13-2008, 09:02 PM
If we give Alonso 7 Million this year than bonuses are going to go through the roof next year. I don't have a problem going over slot for him, as I think he'd be our top prospect right away, but I'd keep it around 4 million. I'm guessing MLB is hoping they dont give 7 million to him.

lollipopcurve
08-13-2008, 09:03 PM
If thats really the way he feel I say screw him let him go live with A Rod.

Agreed. And then get drafted by the Nats. Or maybe the Pads, where he could ply his opposite field power bat in Petco.

kpresidente
08-13-2008, 09:04 PM
If he calls the Reds' bluff, the Reds are still more screwed than Alonso is (no minor league hitters to speak of, sputtering of recent call-ups Bruce and Votto, four teams in the Central well in front of the Reds whose offenses are locked-up/affordable/young--well Houston's isn't young, but they are about trillion times tougher).

How's that?

If Alonso walks, we get to pick another great hitter next year, plus add $7 million to the payroll in 2009, which could be used on a veteran free agent that's going help a lot more in the immediate than Alonso would.

So we break even in the long-run and win in the short run.

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2008, 09:08 PM
I don't understand why the Reds are so reluctant to give Alonso a major league contract. Hell, they have no problems with wasting 40-man roster spots on guys like Gary Majewski, Paul Bako, Javier Valentin, Josh Fogg, Corey Patterson, Todd Coffey, Kent Mercker, Andy Phillips, and Norris Hopper. Plus they offered a major league contract to 16 year old Michel Inoa. If you offer a MLC to a 16 year old then why can't you give one to a polished college player?

redsfan30
08-13-2008, 09:09 PM
From what little I know about Yonder Alonso (demanding what he's demanding, being real tight with A-Rod and as a result of that probably already having a sense of "big league" around him), I'm not sure I like the attitude of this kid.

He rubs me (and again, I know very little about him) as a "me first" type of a guy.

HokieRed
08-13-2008, 09:10 PM
I doubt the MLC is the sticking point, it's the money.

lollipopcurve
08-13-2008, 09:11 PM
If you offer a MLC to a 16 year old then why can't you give one to a polished college player?

They'll give in on that before they do on 7 million, I think.

redsfan30
08-13-2008, 09:13 PM
I, too can't see the Major League contract being the sticking point....but him demanding so much above slot.

LoganBuck
08-13-2008, 09:27 PM
why not, you pay what you have to pay, even if it over the norm to get good players in your organization if you want to win. The money fits in the budget. Cheaping out is how we have had the past 8 years

They knew what he was asking when they took him. Pony up. 7 million is going to be awful cheap when he is close to replacing Adam Dunn's production in 2010.

redsfan30
08-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Due to this contract dispute, if Yonder does wind up signing he will easily replace Adam Dunn as the single most scrutinized player across Reds Nation.

Grande Donkey
08-13-2008, 09:40 PM
Due to this contract dispute, if Yonder does wind up signing he will easily replace Adam Dunn as the single most scrutinized player across Reds Nation.If he pans out I don't think so. Alonso is the kind of player that is hard to dislike as a player. Good BA, Good OBP, Good Power, Great strike zone judgment, and just a great all around hitter. Hard to dislike anything about his offensive game. Not near the holes in his game that was in Dunn's

wolfboy
08-13-2008, 09:44 PM
If he pans out I don't think so. Alonso is the kind of player that is hard to dislike as a player. Good BA, Good OBP, Good Power, Great strike zone judgment, and just a great all around hitter. Hard to dislike anything about his offensive game. Not near the holes in his game that was in Dunn's

Dunn has some of the best strike zone judgment in the game. Alonso hasn't had one professional at bat.

redsfan30
08-13-2008, 09:46 PM
If he pans out I don't think so. Alonso is the kind of player that is hard to dislike as a player. Good BA, Good OBP, Good Power, Great strike zone judgment, and just a great all around hitter. Hard to dislike anything about his offensive game. Not near the holes in his game that was in Dunn's

If he signs, he better light the world on fire in the minors cause if he doesn't this place will be on him like a hobo on a ham sandwich.

Grande Donkey
08-13-2008, 09:50 PM
Dunn has some of the best strike zone judgment in the game. Alonso hasn't had one professional at bat.I said if Alonso pans out and show me where I said Dunn didn't have great strike zone judgment.

Grande Donkey
08-13-2008, 09:51 PM
If he signs, he better light the world on fire in the minors cause if he doesn't this place will be on him like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
No doubt about it.

wolfboy
08-13-2008, 09:59 PM
I said if Alonso pans out and show me where I said Dunn didn't have great strike zone judgment.

Get defensive much? I never claimed you'd said that. My comment was simply meant to keep things in context.

VR
08-13-2008, 10:01 PM
I think it would be a good sign for the organization if they said tbnt at 4M. Take two top ten picks next year.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 10:06 PM
Take two top ten picks next year.

And land in the same spot next year, wringing your hands over whether to pay 'em.

Meanwhile, someone else gets the benefit of Alonso's bat.

Me, I'll take one top ten pick next year and Alonso this year. Never put off till tomorrow....

sonny
08-13-2008, 10:12 PM
And land in the same spot next year, wringing your hands over whether to pay 'em.

Meanwhile, someone else gets the benefit of Alonso's bat.

Me, I'll take one top ten pick next year and Alonso this year. Never put off till tomorrow....

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you FCB.:D

fearofpopvol1
08-13-2008, 10:14 PM
I'd take 2 picks next year.

While I'd prefer to have Alonso, he sounds awfully bratty to me. Maybe the Reds did know what he wanted ahead of time, but they probably assumed that they could find a middle road and it sounds like he's pretty unwilling (as of now). I say let him sit out and fall of the radar or risk injury.

I wouldn't go a cent higher than $4 million. Especially with Beckham signing for $2.6 or whatever it is.

757690
08-13-2008, 10:15 PM
fay asked Alonso what would happen if on Friday, the Reds offered him $3M and a MLB contract. Alonso said he would walk. Maybe that is what the Reds are offering now, and only need to go up to $3.5M or $4M? Let's wait until Friday until we tar and feather this kid.

edabbs44
08-13-2008, 10:16 PM
And land in the same spot next year, wringing your hands over whether to pay 'em.

Meanwhile, someone else gets the benefit of Alonso's bat.

Me, I'll take one top ten pick next year and Alonso this year. Never put off till tomorrow....

If they LOVE Alonso (i.e. think he is going to be a special player), then they should do what it takes (within reason) to get him signed. If they don't feel that way and just believe that he has as good of a shot as any other top 10 guy, they should draw a line in the sand and tell him to take it or leave it.

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 11:03 PM
The Reds are going to look like idiots considering they knew how much money Alonso wanted and yet still took him despite Gordon Beckham still available.

He was my choice, but I knew Walt would take the BPA of what power guys were left.

Walt can play chicken, too.

Kingspoint
08-13-2008, 11:05 PM
I'd rather give Derek Lowe the $7M.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2008, 11:11 PM
I'd rather give Derek Lowe the $7M.

then add 4 more million to that figure, and you get Derek Lowe for one season!

At age 36. But see, you won't get him for just one year, you'll have to pay him for multiple years--for his production in Dodger Stadium.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-13-2008, 11:19 PM
Dunno if this has been posted, but during the Reds broadcast tonight, Chris Welsh had some interesting comments about him. He said he's looing for about $7 mil a year or something, and said he's close with ARod (might have been Jeter, don't remember which) and if he doesn't get his number he'll walk and play in the independent leagues for a year up in NJ, and ARod's offered to let him bunk at his place the whole time.

Sounds like he has no interest in coming here,and would rather hang out with a superstar prima donna's place for a year and tear it up in the indy leagues.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-13-2008, 11:27 PM
I didn't understand that. He is a junior. He'll go back to Miami if he doesn't sign.

Degenerate39
08-13-2008, 11:35 PM
I'd rather have someone like a SS or CF. We have a good first baseman who will be here for a very long time. Just wait till next year.

NorrisHopper30
08-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Dunno if this has been posted, but during the Reds broadcast tonight, Chris Welsh had some interesting comments about him. He said he's looing for about $7 mil a year or something, and said he's close with ARod (might have been Jeter, don't remember which) and if he doesn't get his number he'll walk and play in the independent leagues for a year up in NJ, and ARod's offered to let him bunk at his place the whole time.

Sounds like he has no interest in coming here,and would rather hang out with a superstar prima donna's place for a year and tear it up in the indy leagues.He won't even get that much money next year if he was taken 1 overall.

acredsfan
08-14-2008, 12:07 AM
The whole AROD thing shows how out of whack this thing is. This kid is lucky to know AROD personally and hopefully it would help develop him into a major league player, but really, how far does a representative from another team have to go before he crosses the line to tampering. I know you can't tell a player who he can and can't have as a friend, but you can tell the friend who happens to be a high profile major league player to stay out of the business aspect. The kid is getting the idea that he can come in and command big bucks and a major league contract because he has a great fall back plan to live with AROD. I know it's probably not because Alex wants the Yankees to sign him, but maybe it is. My point is, Alonso is in negotiations with a team that the high profile player giving advice to this kid does not play for. To me, that just isn't ethical.

Maybe this made a difference in Yonder's decision, maybe it didn't, but it's still not good. It sets the team that drafted the player back another year, or sets them back a spot on the 40 man plus a good chunk of money. The problem begins when the players have the option of going back to college if they don't get what they want. If I were the commissioner, I would change the rules so a team that drafts a player that opts for the independant league retains the rights of that player for 2 years. I know I'm ranting, but it seems that teams have almost no leverage anymore, especially when a kid is given bad advice.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 01:29 AM
If the kid wants 7 million bucks, he can shove it. Seriously. The best player in the draft was Tim Beckham. He went #1 overall, signed for OVER slot money, and only got 6.15 million. So the guy we overdrafted (according to almost EVERYONE) thinks he is getting 7 million? Ha. If the Reds pay him that, they are absolute fools. They won't pay him that though, he isn't worth it. Its beyond ridiculous.

As for the several comments about the Reds offering 5 million to Iona and a MLB deal and using that money for Alonso..... that money might have already been set aside to sign Yorman Rodriguez/other international guys.

757690
08-14-2008, 01:58 AM
It also makes no financial sense for him to not sign and wait out a year. Best case scenario for Alonso is that he is the #1 pick next year, and gets his $7M. But he would have to sit out this year, which means that he gets nothing this year, and more importantly, will be one year older when he becomes arbitration eligible and a free agent, then if he signs this year.

Even if all the Reds offer is $3M now, he will more than make that up a few years down the line, as he goes to arbitration one year earlier and becomes a free agent one year earlier. Any agent with half a brain will tell him that that is worth far more than $4M. That is unless, Alonso does not believe he will make it in the majors, in which case, why would the Reds want to invest $7M in him?

And it is more likely that he will get drafted around the same slot, and be offered $2-3M and have to take it next year, as he will have no leverage at all.

I think he is bluffing, and the Reds know this and are just waiting it out. Buckley has already said that the Reds will gladly take the extra pick next year if Alonso turns them down. Who can blame them?

joe51391
08-14-2008, 08:17 AM
I'll take the 2 picks
:beerme:

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:43 AM
JD Drew, JD Drew.

Remember: jerks are often killer players.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:45 AM
Offer 4.5 and call it a day. Tell him to suit up and be ready for Sept. 1.

edabbs44
08-14-2008, 08:48 AM
JD Drew, JD Drew.

Remember: jerks are often killer players.

Matt Harrington.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:51 AM
Matt Harrington.

True. But my point is--don't let emotion or his "personality" make this decision.

nate
08-14-2008, 08:57 AM
True. But my point is--don't let emotion or his "personality" make this decision.

I dunno. Bill Bavasi is now heading up the player intangibles division.

puca
08-14-2008, 09:25 AM
Alonso should know that rarely do 'bats' get drafted as high as he did. The top spots in the draft are usually reserved for pitchers and players at the more premium defensive positions.

The Reds should know that they are severely lacking a near-ready premium bat.

Lets get this done folks.

But not a 7 million, that's just crazy talk.

mbgrayson
08-14-2008, 09:27 AM
From the Baseball America website (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2008/266692.html):


Status Of Unsigned Draft Picks
Through first round

By Jim Callis
August 14, 2008

Unsigned players in the first 10 rounds, and their negotiation status as of Wednesday evening:

Rd Pick Team Player, Pos. Status
1 2 Pirates Pedro Alvarez, 3b Seeking over-slot deal
1 3 Royals Eric Hosmer, 1b Seeking over-slot deal
1 4 Orioles Brian Matusz, lhp Seeking over-slot deal
1 5 Giants Buster Posey, c Seeking over-slot deal
1 7 Reds Yonder Alonso, 1b Seeking over-slot deal
1 9 Nationals Aaron Crow, rhp Seeking over-slot deal
1 11 Rangers Justin Smoak, 1b Seeking over-slot bonus
1 20 Mariners Joshua Fields, rhp Seeking over-slot bonus
1 23 Padres Allan Dykstra, 1b Has medical issues (hip)
1 28 Yankees Gerrit Cole, rhp Seeking over-slot bonus
1s 44 Yankees Jeremy Bleich, lhp May get seven-figure bonus

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 09:40 AM
I think it would be hilarious if all 7 of those top 11 don't sign.

The draft pool will be deeper next year and all but Hosmer will have no leverage and have to take what they are offered next year.

I think it's great.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 09:48 AM
The whole AROD thing shows how out of whack this thing is. This kid is lucky to know AROD personally and hopefully it would help develop him into a major league player, but really, how far does a representative from another team have to go before he crosses the line to tampering. I know you can't tell a player who he can and can't have as a friend, but you can tell the friend who happens to be a high profile major league player to stay out of the business aspect. The kid is getting the idea that he can come in and command big bucks and a major league contract because he has a great fall back plan to live with AROD. I know it's probably not because Alex wants the Yankees to sign him, but maybe it is. My point is, Alonso is in negotiations with a team that the high profile player giving advice to this kid does not play for. To me, that just isn't ethical.

Maybe this made a difference in Yonder's decision, maybe it didn't, but it's still not good. It sets the team that drafted the player back another year, or sets them back a spot on the 40 man plus a good chunk of money. The problem begins when the players have the option of going back to college if they don't get what they want. If I were the commissioner, I would change the rules so a team that drafts a player that opts for the independant league retains the rights of that player for 2 years. I know I'm ranting, but it seems that teams have almost no leverage anymore, especially when a kid is given bad advice.

I'd like to see the club come in around $3.5M or $4.0M and have no problem with a ML contract either.

That said, this comment about Alex Rodriguez is troubling. I've been trying to find the actual rules about tampering and I suspect they may only apply to team officials, there is a big problem with a ML player from another club counseling a drafted player about negotiating tactics. If they fail to reach an agreement with Alonso, they should think long and hard about exploring legal action along the lines of tampering. Rodriguez has the proverbial deep pockets.

Of course, MLB still has the clauses in their constitution about the commissioner being able to act in the best interests of MLB, but I think Selig has pretty well shown that he knows nothing about those and can't find the books about it.

I like your idea about extending the drafting teams rights if a player opts for an indepedent league, although I could see a legal question viz the player's rights to employment (which gets us into the whole brouhaha on anti-trust immunity etc.). MLB really needs to get their act together to construct a system that works for all the parties involved.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 09:57 AM
That said, this comment about Alex Rodriguez is troubling. I've been trying to find the actual rules about tampering and I suspect they may only apply to team officials, there is a big problem with a ML player from another club counseling a drafted player about negotiating tactics. If they fail to reach an agreement with Alonso, they should think long and hard about exploring legal action along the lines of tampering. Rodriguez has the proverbial deep pockets.

Of course, MLB still has the clauses in their constitution about the commissioner being able to act in the best interests of MLB, but I think Selig has pretty well shown that he knows nothing about those and can't find the books about it.

I like your idea about extending the drafting teams rights if a player opts for an indepedent league, although I could see a legal question viz the player's rights to employment (which gets us into the whole brouhaha on anti-trust immunity etc.). MLB really needs to get their act together to construct a system that works for all the parties involved.

That or maybe we should pursue a trade for AROD. :)

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 10:28 AM
You know, A Rod could kick in the $3M he's getting this season from Texas as part of the deferred portion of his last contract to go to Alonso and set up a bed for him when the team comes to New York.

Benihana
08-14-2008, 10:49 AM
Well, it looks like Matusz and Posey are all set to sign. Both will get major league deals, with Matusz getting $5MM and Posey getting $7.5MM!! At least some cards are starting to fall, but I can't see how this would help the Reds position. I'd now be surprised if Alonso settles for anything less than $5MM.

In other news, Aaron Crow just signed with an independent league team.

www.mlbtraderumors.com

KoryMac5
08-14-2008, 10:50 AM
I would say with the other picks signing above slot, it gives us less leverage with Yonder. I give the Reds a less than 50% chance of getting this deal done. Crow signing with an Independent League team doesn't make the idea of Yonder signing with one that far fetched. Give him 6.5 and call it a day.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 10:50 AM
Brian Matusz (#4 overall) is in Baltimore today for a physical and a deal with the Orioles is reportedly close according to the Baltimore Sun. The Giants have also agreed with the fifth pick, Buster Posey, on a $7.5MM Major League deal per the San Jose Mercury News. The picks around Alonso are starting to sign...

Benihana
08-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Is there an echo in here? :)

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 10:54 AM
I knew these figures would rise, and this talk of the players having no leverage would evaporate. These guys have a ton of leverage in a market where prospects are "all."

(Though a smart GM might search for ways to buck this overvaluing trend).

Still, you'd like to have a nice stake in the ground over at first.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 10:57 AM
well Posey was said to want 10-12 mil so to get him at 7.5 is definitely encouraging. It doesn't help the Reds greatly but it also doesn't help Yonder, he'll have to come down. 5 mil and an ML contract is what I'll place my bets on.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 10:58 AM
What is Gordon Beckham asking for? Did he sign yet? I thought he made more sense for us in the draft but also realize Alonso's ability as a hitter is about as polished as they come. It doesn't look like this is going to happen. I'd let the guy walk before we throw him $7 M and a major league deal.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 10:59 AM
well Posey was said to want 10-12 mil so to get him at 7.5 is definitely encouraging. It doesn't help the Reds but it also doesn't help Yonder, he'll have to come down. 5 mil and an ML contract is what I'll place my bets on.

But 10-12 million is just making stuff up. Yonder's number is/was very much in line with what is coming down the pipe.

I'm guessing that whether it happens this year or next, Alonso will get no less than $6 million. Good for him. This is America. Make the most of it.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 11:00 AM
It doesn't look like this is going to happen. I'd let the guy walk before we throw him $7 M and a major league deal.

The Reds will pay $7 million at some point in these drafts--but it will be for more and lesser players.

I don't like the "quantity method." I like the "Lincecum" method.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 11:03 AM
The Reds will pay $7 million at some point in these drafts--but it will be for more and lesser players.

I don't like the "quantity method." I like the "Lincecum" method.

If Alonso threw 97 mph, I might feel differently.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 11:05 AM
If Alonso threw 97 mph, I might feel differently.

For the first time in forever, the Reds need offensive just as much as pitching. Hard to believe, but true.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 11:06 AM
For the first time in forever, the Reds need offensive just as much as pitching. Hard to believe, but true.
Offense is easier to come by than pitching. $7M and tying up a spot on the 40-man for an unproven player just seems foolish. I guess that is where we are headed, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 11:11 AM
What is Gordon Beckham asking for? Did he sign yet? I thought he made more sense for us in the draft but also realize Alonso's ability as a hitter is about as polished as they come. It doesn't look like this is going to happen. I'd let the guy walk before we throw him $7 M and a major league deal.

Supposedly $2.6 million, which I thought was going to give the Reds a lot more leverage, but after the signings today, now I'm not so sure.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 11:13 AM
The Reds have spent an enormous amount of money this year on the draft and International talent, and I love it. I hope they start doing this every year in order to keep the farm system well stocked. So far in the past few months the Reds have signed 16-year old Juan Duran for $2 million, 16-year old Junior Arias for $300,000, are rumored to have a deal in place for Yorman Rodriguez, a 16-year old Venezuelan rumored to be seeking around $3 million. In addition to that they've spent $1-2 more million on lesser Latin talent. That doesn't even include the draft: Second rounder Zach Stewart signed for $450,000 and they just gave $500,000 to their 30th round pick Juan Carlos Sulbaran. Let's just assume Alonso signs for $4 million dollars, that would put the Reds around roughly $10 million spent on the draft plus around $6.5 to 7 million spent on International signings, and who knows, that number could grow larger because Jocketty just returned from the Dominican Republic on a scouting trip and may have signed more players. We're looking at roughly $17 million dollars spent on the draft and International signings so far. That's gotta be in the top two or three in the majors.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 11:16 AM
Let's just assume Alonso signs for $4 million dollars...

Do you think there is any possible way that happens? I can't see him signing for less than 6.5, particularly with the Posey deal coming down the pipeline today.

M2
08-14-2008, 11:16 AM
If the kid wants 7 million bucks, he can shove it. Seriously. The best player in the draft was Tim Beckham. He went #1 overall, signed for OVER slot money, and only got 6.15 million. So the guy we overdrafted (according to almost EVERYONE) thinks he is getting 7 million? Ha. If the Reds pay him that, they are absolute fools. They won't pay him that though, he isn't worth it. Its beyond ridiculous.

As for the several comments about the Reds offering 5 million to Iona and a MLB deal and using that money for Alonso..... that money might have already been set aside to sign Yorman Rodriguez/other international guys.

I'm with you. Kind of ironic that Gordon Beckham proved reasonable as so many here wanted him.

I'd put $3M on the table for Alonso and leave it at that. Either he signs or he doesn't. Makes me no nevermind. I already don't miss him and I've got zero interest in seeing the team explode its spending ceiling for a 1B.

Chip R
08-14-2008, 11:23 AM
I'm with you. Kind of ironic that Gordon Beckham proved reasonable as so many here wanted him.

I'd put $3M on the table for Alonso and leave it at that. Either he signs or he doesn't. Makes me no nevermind. I already don't miss him and I've got zero interest in seeing the team explode its spending ceiling for a 1B.


Would you give him a 40 man spot too?

RedlegJake
08-14-2008, 11:24 AM
I'm with you. Kind of ironic that Gordon Beckham proved reasonable as so many here wanted him.

I'd put $3M on the table for Alonso and leave it at that. Either he signs or he doesn't. Makes me no nevermind. I already don't miss him and I've got zero interest in seeing the team explode its spending ceiling for a 1B.

Absolutely. I think the Reds don't sign Alonso. I'm not sorry about it or bitter or angry either. I'll take two top ten picks next year.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 11:27 AM
I didn't understand that. He is a junior. He'll go back to Miami if he doesn't sign.
Alonso told John Fay that if he didn't sign with the Reds, he would sign with an Independent League team while he leeches off of A-Rod for a year.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 11:28 AM
Well, hopefully one of those two top 10 picks next year is a college bat that is a year or two away from the show.

I don't feel like waiting until 2013 for one of those picks to make impact. We are already on year 9 of a never ending rebuilding plan.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 11:29 AM
Alonso told John Fay that if he didn't sign with the Reds, he would sign with an Independent League team while he leeches off of A-Rod for a year.


He is dumber than I thought then.

RedlegJake
08-14-2008, 11:33 AM
Well, hopefully one of those two top 10 picks next year is a college bat that is a year or two away from the show.

I don't feel like waiting until 2013 for one of those picks to make impact. We are already on year 9 of a never ending rebuilding plan.

Draft picks are never a good quick fix idea, though. I always look at draft picks as 3-5 years down the road. Anything quicker than that is either really lucky or really Ryan Wagner dumb.

M2
08-14-2008, 11:36 AM
Would you give him a 40 man spot too?

Hmm, theoretically a college 1B taken with a high pick should progress quickly to the majors (inside of two years). If you don't think he can do that then there's no reason to pick the kid that high.

So putting him on the 40-man shouldn't be an issue, provided the team actually believes he'll have a short minor league career.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 11:39 AM
Draft picks are never a good quick fix idea, though. I always look at draft picks as 3-5 years down the road. Anything quicker than that is either really lucky or really Ryan Wagner dumb.

That's not the way I was looking at Yonder Alonso. I thought he was 1-2 years away (Sept 2009 to April-June 2010). Unfortunately, it looks like we have one less asset now for that timeframe.

I just think if you miss out on a 1st round pick one year, that a HS arm would be the worst way to go the next. Just give me one of the top college bats (Smoak, Posey, etc.) with at least one of those picks and I'll be happy.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 11:41 AM
Hmm, theoretically a college 1B taken with a high pick should progress quickly to the majors (inside of two years). If you don't think he can do that then there's no reason to pick the kid that high.

So putting him on the 40-man shouldn't be an issue, provided the team actually believes he'll have a short minor league career.

Exactly, but I wonder if he gets the money he wants why being on the 40-man roster is that important. Does it speed up the whole arb/free agent clock?

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 11:41 AM
Beckham was a good college bat that won't take long to progress, but I guess he doesn't project to have the wood bat power of some other guys in the draft. Still made sense. Oh well...:(

Chip R
08-14-2008, 11:44 AM
Exactly, but I wonder if he gets the money he wants why being on the 40-man roster is that important. Does it speed up the whole arb/free agent clock?


It speeds up the time where he can't be optioned to the minors without clearing waivers. Think Wily Mo Pena.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:11 PM
Offense is easier to come by than pitching. $7M and tying up a spot on the 40-man for an unproven player just seems foolish. I guess that is where we are headed, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that.

I'll take a shot in the dark and say the Reds remain light years behind the offenses of Houston, Chicago, St. Louis, and Milwaukee for the duration of 09/10. With little hope for a boost from the minors anytime soon.

I don't mind parting up the Dunn/Junior money to get some great defending offensive tweeners (because that's all they'll be able to acquire--and I think that's the way Jocketty will go). But you got to have a driver on the offense. And the Reds have exactly no one to fill that role--and I mean nowhere do they have one.

OesterPoster
08-14-2008, 12:18 PM
I'll take a shot in the dark and say the Reds remain light years behind the offenses of Houston, Chicago, St. Louis, and Milwaukee for the duration of 09/10. With little hope for a boost from the minors anytime soon.

I don't mind parting up the Dunn/Junior money to get some great defending offensive tweeners (because that's all they'll be able to acquire--and I think that's the way Jocketty will go). But you got to have a driver on the offense. And the Reds have exactly no one to fill that role--and I mean nowhere do they have one.

So you think that "driver" for the Reds' offense is going to be Alonso before that "driver" is Bruce or Votto or EE or BP?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:22 PM
So you think that "driver" for the Reds' offense is going to be Alonso before that "driver" is Bruce or Votto or EE or BP?

You've watched EE and BP the last several years, right? Okay. Let's certainly eliminate them.

Votto? Unless he's ready to turn into Giambi circa 2000, I just don't see it. At all.

Bruce? It's tough. I'm having a tough time deciding what kind of hitter he's going to be. I think he'll be good, but I definitely worry about his ability to get on base consistently until after he's 25 or so, when his reputation for pop causes pitchers to pitch him more cautiously.

Alonso's the kind of bat that could be Thome-like almost immediately. So while I think Bruce and Alonso will both be great hitters, I think Alonso will be greater sooner.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 12:25 PM
Alonso will be great in the independent leagues next year. It obviously isn't happening for him in Cinci.

Thome is probably a Hall of Famer. It's wishful thinking to put him in that category when he's never swung a bat professionally.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:27 PM
It obviously isn't happening for him in Cinci.

Then that's Cincy's problem.

Let it be known that the Reds will likely spend upwards of $15-20 million this offseason on middling hitting that likely won't be here much longer than a couple of seasons.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 12:27 PM
Alonso's the kind of bat that could be Thome-like almost immediately.

Way too optimistic, in my opinion. Alonso is going to have to learn to handle being busted inside.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 12:29 PM
Then that's Cincy's problem.

Let it be known that the Reds will likely spend upwards of $15-20 million this offseason on middling hitting that likely won't be here much longer than a couple of seasons.


They spent nearly 7 million on Dusty Baker and Corey Patterson this year.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 12:33 PM
Then that's Cincy's problem.

Let it be known that the Reds will likely spend upwards of $15-20 million this offseason on middling hitting that likely won't be here much longer than a couple of seasons.

Maybe. The problem here is not in refusing to pay outrageous amounts and guarantee a roster spot. The problem was with the pick in the first place. What's done is done, though, and we can't go back.

Now we're stuck with a guy who does one thing well and can only play one position and we've got him trying to take us for a crazy contract. You sign this guy, he better be the real deal offensively because he gives you zero defensive flexibility. He's very polished offensively and should be a solid ML hitter. But the Thome talk is more outrageous than his contract demands.

The honest truth is that if Alonso can get to the big leagues and produce as well as Edwin Encarnacion offensively, he will have done a lot better than most people. I don't think you draft a player expecting a superstar. I think you draft expecting one day to get a solid ML player (at least with those high picks). Superstars will happen.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Maybe. The problem here is not in refusing to pay outrageous amounts and guarantee a roster spot. The problem was with the pick in the first place. What's done is done, though, and we can't go back.

Now we're stuck with a guy who does one thing well and can only play one position and we've got him trying to take us for a crazy contract. You sign this guy, he better be the real deal offensively because he gives you zero defensive flexibility. He's very polished offensively and should be a solid ML hitter. But the Thome talk is more outrageous than his contract demands.

The honest truth is that if Alonso can get to the big leagues and produce as well as Edwin Encarnacion offensively, he will have done a lot better than most people. I don't think you draft a player expecting a superstar. I think you draft expecting one day to get a solid ML player (at least with those high picks). Superstars will happen.


Pujols was better than Thome immediately. It happens. Athletes get better younger all the time.

And as far as the pick "in the first place," hell, you might as well punt all top 10 picks forever for the Reds, then. The prices ain't going down anytime soon.

Typically, and I know this sounds crazy when you follow the Reds, but typically, you get what you pay for.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Between a rock and a hard place is where we are now. As George Clooney kept saying in "O Brother Where Art Thou", We're in a tight spot!

http://img.timeinc.net/time/sampler/images/0012/clooney1215.jpg

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 12:47 PM
And as far as the pick "in the first place," hell, you might as well punt all top 10 picks forever for the Reds, then. The prices ain't going down anytime soon.
Gordon Beckham is going to be a fast-track player (granted, probably not as fast as Alonso) and just signed for less than $2.5M. We could use a SS, couldn't we? He also brings a lot more versatility and flexibility defensively. Point is, signability has always been something to be considered and should be. If a guy before the draft is saying he wants $7M and you know you aren't going to even approach that, why are you wasting the pick?

Alonso could just as easily become Geoff Blum as he could Albert Pujols. The guy is a great college hitter. That is all we know about him.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Pujols was better than Thome immediately. It happens. Athletes get better younger all the time.

And as far as the pick "in the first place," hell, you might as well punt all top 10 picks forever for the Reds, then. The prices ain't going down anytime soon.

Typically, and I know this sounds crazy when you follow the Reds, but typically, you get what you pay for.

So now we are trying to compare Pujols to Alonso? Pujols is on his way to becoming one of the greatest baseball players ever to live.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:48 PM
So now we are trying to compare Pujols to Alonso? Pujols is on his way to becoming one of the greatest baseball players ever to live.

Read what I wrote. Nowhere did I make that direct comparison. Or really even an implied one.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Read what I wrote. Nowhere did I make that direct comparison. Or really even an implied one.

I read it. If Pujols has no direct comparison to Alonso, then why make the comment?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:52 PM
Gordon Beckham is going to be a fast-track player (granted, probably not as fast as Alonso) and just signed for less than $2.5M. We could use a SS, couldn't we? He also brings a lot more versatility and flexibility defensively. Point is, signability has always been something to be considered and should be. If a guy before the draft is saying he wants $7M and you know you aren't going to even approach that, why are you wasting the pick?

Alonso could just as easily become Geoff Blum as he could Albert Pujols. The guy is a great college hitter. That is all we know about him.


No argument about the stupidity of the Reds knowing his price, drafting him, then refusing to pay sticker price.

How many decades have I seen this team play penny wise pound foolish?

If the Reds can shell out $2-3 million for a 16 year old (whose body is nowhere near grown), then why on earth won't they go 6 million for a kid ready to grab a wooden bat?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:53 PM
I read it. If Pujols has no direct comparison to Alonso, then why make the comment?

The point is refutation of the comment that Thome-like players don't come right out of college. Which is untrue. In fact, even better than Thome hitters come right out of college.

RedsFanInBama
08-14-2008, 12:56 PM
The point is refutation of the comment that Thome-like players don't come right out of college. Which is untrue. In fact, even better than Thome hitters come right out of college.

The point is, you seem to be assuming that it is a foregone conclusion that Alonso will be the equal to Jim Thome from the time he puts on a Reds uniform. The odds that happens are far less than the odds that he becomes just another average major leaguer.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 12:59 PM
The point is, you seem to be assuming that it is a foregone conclusion that Alonso will be the equal to Jim Thome from the time he puts on a Reds uniform. The odds that happens are far less than the odds that he becomes just another average major leaguer.

He may not. But the likelihood of him approaching even 3/4 of that ability are sufficient, IMO, to shell out $6 million for the guy.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 12:59 PM
if he wants 7M, let him try to get it next year. I have a hard time believing a year in an indy league will make his draft stock rise. He is a solid hitter with good plate discipline but a average to below athlete tied to one position.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 01:00 PM
if he wants 7M, let him try to get it next year. I have a hard time believing a year in an indy league will make his draft stock rise. He is a solid hitter with good plate discipline but a average to below athlete tied to one position.

It's a good thing the Reds have an opening for a true first-base bat. Because Votto's looking like a 3rd base level bat.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 01:00 PM
The point is refutation of the comment that Thome-like players don't come right out of college. Which is untrue. In fact, even better than Thome hitters come right out of college.

Except that probably isn't true. Pujols came right out of college and beat up on kids in the Midwest League to the tune of a .954 OPS, then spent a limited time in AA where he had an OPS of .822. I think Jim Thome would do a little better than .954 and .822 if sent to the MWL and the Carolina League right now.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 01:02 PM
The Reds have got to sign him IMO. They knew what he was asking for beforehand and still drafted him despite similar talent still on the board. Failing to sign Alonso only sets the Reds back another year. The Reds could really use some more high impact bats to add to the young nucleus of Bruce and Votto and Alonso fits that bill. He's a very polished hitter capable of reaching the majors sometime in late 2009 or the spring of 2010 and helping this organization quickly. Yes, he's asking for a boatload but why draft him if you know he's going to ask for the moon?

flyer85
08-14-2008, 01:04 PM
It's a good thing the Reds have an opening for a true first-base bat. Because Votto's looking like a 3rd base level bat.
I didn't like what I saw from Alonso and his aluminum bat ... he reminded me more of a potential Sean Casey than an Albert Pujols.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 01:06 PM
I didn't like what I saw from Alonso and his aluminum bat ... he reminded me more of a potential Sean Casey than an Albert Pujols.
?????

flyer85
08-14-2008, 01:14 PM
?????he liked to pull his hands in and stay inside the ball on fastballs on the inner half ... you can generate some power and do that with a metal bat but you end up Sean Casey if you try to do that with wood.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 01:16 PM
Yonder put up very good numbers with a wood bat in the cape cod league. His swing translate very well to wood

flyer85
08-14-2008, 01:21 PM
Yonder put up very good numbers with a wood bat in the cape cod league. His swing translate very well to woodfor a good average, he wants to put up 30+ HR power numbers he will have to turn on inside fastballs.

Alonso is a good prospect but he is no lock to be a star.

edabbs44
08-14-2008, 01:23 PM
No argument about the stupidity of the Reds knowing his price, drafting him, then refusing to pay sticker price.

How many decades have I seen this team play penny wise pound foolish?

If the Reds can shell out $2-3 million for a 16 year old (whose body is nowhere near grown), then why on earth won't they go 6 million for a kid ready to grab a wooden bat?

Forget about $2-3 million for a 16 year old. How about $7MM for Stanton? $3MM for Patterson? $14MM for Gonzalez?

I'll take young expensive talent over Mike Stanton anyday.

mound_patrol
08-14-2008, 01:25 PM
The Reds have got to sign him IMO. They knew what he was asking for beforehand and still drafted him despite similar talent still on the board. Failing to sign Alonso only sets the Reds back another year. The Reds could really use some more high impact bats to add to the young nucleus of Bruce and Votto and Alonso fits that bill. He's a very polished hitter capable of reaching the majors sometime in late 2009 or the spring of 2010 and helping this organization quickly. Yes, he's asking for a boatload but why draft him if you know he's going to ask for the moon?

I dont think losing out on one player will set our entire organization back another year. However, with these other players getting money way over slot I'd be willing to go up to around 6 million to sign Alonso.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 01:25 PM
How about $7MM for Stanton? $3MM for Patterson? $14MM for Gonzalez?.kinda hoping the days of being stupid are over. Although if it going to take 5M+ to sign Alonso I would say there was a lack of due diligence before the draft.

Laporta signed for a little over 2M in the 7 slot the year before and he was on the same level of a prospect as Alonso

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 01:49 PM
Laporta signed for a little over 2M in the 7 slot the year before and he was on the same level of a prospect as Alonso

yeah, but it's clear that the upper first round of the draft has become a batleground between agents and MLB -- wasn't the case in 2007 -- will be interesting to see if any teams hold the line and scoop up their top ten compensatory pick in 09

AmarilloRed
08-14-2008, 01:51 PM
The Reds want a minor league contract; Alonso wants a major league one. Unless they manage to agree on this, Alonso will not be signed.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 01:57 PM
yeah, but it's clear that the upper first round of the draft has become a batleground between agents and MLB -- wasn't the case in 2007 -- will be interesting to see if any teams hold the line and scoop up their top ten compensatory pick in 09I saw on Rotoworld where Posey was supposedly going to sign for a 7.5M major league deal(down from the 12M he supposedly was asking for).

flyer85
08-14-2008, 02:00 PM
The Reds want a minor league contract; Alonso wants a major league one. Unless they manage to agree on this, Alonso will not be signed.it's going to come down to the $$$.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 02:37 PM
After looking at the JD Drew situation, it occurred to me that maybe this figure Alonso is alleged to be asking could be structured the way Drew's was. Drafted second by Philly in 1997, he was reported to be asking for a $10M bonus, Philly offered $4M. He played independent ball that season and was drafted in the 5th round by the Cards the next year.

Ultimately, he signed a contract with a $3M signing bonus, and four years of salary at $3.875M with the possibility of $1.625 in bonuses. Ultimately, the deal went for $7M for those four years. He signed on 7/3/98 and was called up in September.

If Alonso is looking for a deal that spreads the money out over a long deal, then I would be okay with that. Keep in mind, Walt Jocketty was the GM in St. Louis when the Drew deal got done.

bucksfan2
08-14-2008, 03:01 PM
After looking at the JD Drew situation, it occurred to me that maybe this figure Alonso is alleged to be asking could be structured the way Drew's was. Drafted second by Philly in 1997, he was reported to be asking for a $10M bonus, Philly offered $4M. He played independent ball that season and was drafted in the 5th round by the Cards the next year.

Ultimately, he signed a contract with a $3M signing bonus, and four years of salary at $3.875M with the possibility of $1.625 in bonuses. Ultimately, the deal went for $7M for those four years. He signed on 7/3/98 and was called up in September.

If Alonso is looking for a deal that spreads the money out over a long deal, then I would be okay with that. Keep in mind, Walt Jocketty was the GM in St. Louis when the Drew deal got done.


Wasn't Drew considered the best prospect in all of the draft?

KronoRed
08-14-2008, 03:01 PM
Punting a draft pick over money will not make big Bob look good as he tries to get the fan base on board.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 03:14 PM
from fay:



Reds scouting director admitted that the club and top pick Yonder Alonso are still far apart.
"There's not too much to report," Buckley said. "We're trying."
Based on what Alonso said yesterday, I think the Reds at the very minimum have to offer him a big league contract to get a deal done.
Would they consider that?
"I'm not sure," Buckley said. "We're talking about about it. Our preference would be a minor league deal."
Buckley and GM Walt Jocketty have been working on the deal. Someone of Alonso's side of things told me yesterday, there had been very little back and forth.
While I think it will take a big league deal to get Alonso signed, don't read that as I'm advocating that the Reds do that. They may have made a mistake by taking him -- given his demands -- but giving him a big league deal for the kind of money he wants would compound the mistake.
Now for the goofy thought: Could the Reds be considering making Micah Owings a hitter? He'd hit in the majors if he player every day. The Diamondbacks considered playing him at first base on days he wasn't pitching. He hits right-handed. Things worked out for Jocketty when he allowed Rick Ankiel to move from pitcher to outfielder.
He hit .333 last year with seven doubles, a triple and four home runs in 60 at-bats. His numbers as a hitter for Georgia Tech as junior -- 63 RBI, .472 on-base percentage ranked -- with Alonso's at Miami.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Wasn't Drew considered the best prospect in all of the draft?

In 1997, he clearly was the best and was taken #2 behind Matt Anderson (DET). In 1998, as I recall, many clubs were leery of taking him because of the fracas the year before, but I had thought the Reds might take him with their #7 pick, but St. Louis plucked him up at #5. I thought Bowden could get creative with Boras.

Interestingly, five of the players taken in the first round in 1998 have played for the Reds: Kearns, Lopez, Etherton, the unforgettable Jeff Austin and Corey Patterson. A sixth, Bubba Crosby, played with Louisville a bit last year.

LoganBuck
08-14-2008, 03:20 PM
In 1997, he clearly was the best and was taken #2 behind Matt Anderson (DET). In 1998, as I recall, many clubs were leery of taking him because of the fracas the year before, but I had thought the Reds might take him with their #7 pick, but St. Louis plucked him up at #5. I thought Bowden could get creative with Boras.

Interestingly, four of the players taken in the first round in 1998 have played for the Reds: Kearns, Lopez, Etherton and Corey Patterson. A fifth, Bubba Crosby, played with Louisville a bit last year.

How could you forget Jeff Austin's tenure with the Reds?

flyer85
08-14-2008, 03:21 PM
After looking at the JD Drew situation, it occurred to me that maybe this figure Alonso is alleged to be asking could be structured the way Drew's was. Drafted second by Philly in 1997, he was reported to be asking for a $10M bonus, Philly offered $4M. He played independent ball that season and was drafted in the 5th round by the Cards the next year.

Ultimately, he signed a contract with a $3M signing bonus, and four years of salary at $3.875M with the possibility of $1.625 in bonuses. Ultimately, the deal went for $7M for those four years. He signed on 7/3/98 and was called up in September.

If Alonso is looking for a deal that spreads the money out over a long deal, then I would be okay with that. Keep in mind, Walt Jocketty was the GM in St. Louis when the Drew deal got done.alonso is nowhere near the prospect that Drew was.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 03:30 PM
How could you forget Jeff Austin's tenure with the Reds?

Yes, you're correct. I'll correct my post.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 03:32 PM
alonso is nowhere near the prospect that Drew was.

I'm not suggesting he is. I'm looking at the hold out situation and wondering whether we can craft a similar agreement with this draft pick. As my reference to players drafted around J.D. Drew, drafting players can be a considerable crapshoot.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 03:33 PM
alonso is nowhere near the prospect that Drew was.

This is not true. He's not as polished, maybe, but their ceilings are very similar.

LoganBuck
08-14-2008, 03:37 PM
Alonso doesn't have the speed or defensive ability of Drew, but at the plate they are very comparable.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 03:37 PM
This is not true. He's not as polished, maybe, but their ceilings are very similar. Drew was a true "5-tool player" who played a premium defensive position. He was extremely fast and had a cannon for an arm. Alonso is regarded as a average to below defensive 1b and is slow. His offensive potential may be similar but as an overall player he is not anywhere near the prospect that Drew was. JD has not turned out to be nearly as good as everyone thought he was going to be. He has been good but he was a Josh Hamilton type prospect ... he had it all.

puca
08-14-2008, 03:38 PM
This is not true. He's not as polished, maybe, but their ceilings are very similar.

As hitters.

That is a key point. Drew was also a plus defensive outfielder with speed.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 03:38 PM
Alonso doesn't have the speed or defensive ability of Drew, but at the plate they are very comparable.

Honestly, that's all I care about. He's a 1B.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Honestly, that's all I care about. He's a 1B.which makes him a lot less valuable than a CF who is a similar hitter.

puca
08-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Honestly, that's all I care about. He's a 1B.

But that is a huge difference.

It is much harder to get a CF that rakes than a 1b.

I want the bat as well. I would pay more for that bat if it played a premium defensive postion.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 03:46 PM
But that is a huge difference.

It is much harder to get a CF that rakes than a 1b.

I want the bat as well. I would pay more for that bat if it played a premium defensive postion.it's why Posey will get his money and Alonso, Smoak and Hosmer will not get anything close.

bucksfan2
08-14-2008, 03:58 PM
In 1997, he clearly was the best and was taken #2 behind Matt Anderson (DET). In 1998, as I recall, many clubs were leery of taking him because of the fracas the year before, but I had thought the Reds might take him with their #7 pick, but St. Louis plucked him up at #5. I thought Bowden could get creative with Boras.

Interestingly, five of the players taken in the first round in 1998 have played for the Reds: Kearns, Lopez, Etherton, the unforgettable Jeff Austin and Corey Patterson. A sixth, Bubba Crosby, played with Louisville a bit last year.

I didn't follow baseball to the extent I do now back then. I remember Drew getting a ton of press about his talent as well as his demands. Back then he had it all: speed, defense, power, average, and a cannon for an arm. I thought people were talking about JD Drew as a once in a decade type talent.

Fast forward to Alonso. What does he have to be making such demands? He is a mature hitter but people question how well his power will adjust to the major leauges. He isn't fast, plays adequate defense at first, and doesn't have the flexibility to play elsewhere. I think the Reds would be foolish to pay him anything over 4M to sign.

Here is what I don't get. How much higher could he possibly go? He isn't a pitcher, doesn't play SS, CF, or C. He doesn't have the athleticism that will project him into a 5 tool player. He basically is a good average hitting first baseman. Either I am not understanding something here or he is getting some bad advice, but I don't see how Alonso can demand as much money as he is.

Nugget
08-14-2008, 04:22 PM
In 1997, he clearly was the best and was taken #2 behind Matt Anderson (DET). In 1998, as I recall, many clubs were leery of taking him because of the fracas the year before, but I had thought the Reds might take him with their #7 pick, but St. Louis plucked him up at #5. I thought Bowden could get creative with Boras.

Interestingly, five of the players taken in the first round in 1998 have played for the Reds: Kearns, Lopez, Etherton, the unforgettable Jeff Austin and Corey Patterson. A sixth, Bubba Crosby, played with Louisville a bit last year.

I think Bubba made it into a REDS uniform before being DFA'd.

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 04:26 PM
I think Bubba made it into a REDS uniform before being DFA'd.

I thought so too, but baseball-reference is not showing him with any playing time with the team; but maybe he was called up and didnt get in a game.

indy_dave00
08-14-2008, 04:31 PM
Giants sign pick #5 Buster Posey.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2008/08/13/more-good-draft-news-crawford-signs-posey-just-awaits-a-physical/

Posey on the cusp of getting $7.5 million; Crawford signs, too
Posted by Andrew Baggarly on August 13th, 2008 at 8:01 pm | Categorized as Uncategorized

According to industry sources, No.5 overall pick Buster Posey is a done deal. It’s expected to be a major league contract in the neighborhood of $7.5 million. That shatters the biggest amateur bonus in franchise history — by nearly $5 million.

We knew Posey was going to get at least $6 million, which is what Georgia Tech catcher Matt Wieters got in the same slot last year. Posey’s bonus is more than the $6.15 million that Tampa Bay gave to the first overall pick, high school shortstop Tim Beckham. It might be the biggest deal that any draft pick signs this year.

The Giants refuse to confirm, though Brian Sabean told me that progress had been made and they might not be forced to sweat to the last hour of Friday’s deadline. I originally heard that Posey just needed to pass a physical, but now I’m told he already had one last week in Scottsdale.

Also, third-rounder Roger Kieschnick got $525,000, which is $40,000 over slot value. And while it hasn’t been announced, their fourth-round pick, UCLA shortstop Brandon Crawford, has signed for $375,000 — $92,000 over slot. Bruins officials were told he’s not coming back next season.

So yes, the Giants be a’spending.

Hoosier Red
08-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Is Roger related to Brooks?

indy_dave00
08-14-2008, 04:37 PM
No mention of it on his player profile at Texas Tech , but with the odd last name you'd think there is a connection somewhere.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 04:38 PM
So the Reds aren't sure if they want to give him a major league contract but they don't care to waste roster spots on Bako, Valentin, Majewski, Fogg, Andy Phillips, Hopper, and others? Sheesh.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 04:38 PM
Is Roger related to Brooks?

Yeah, they are cousins.

indy_dave00
08-14-2008, 04:43 PM
Look what the Reds have paid Todd Coffey to pitch for Louisville the last 2 seasons . The key is even if Yonder Alonso doesn't figure into the Reds future, based on potential he could be a very valuable trading chip in a year or so.

If he's signed I'd not be surprised to see him playing in Cincy by next July.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 04:52 PM
Alonso doesn't have the speed or defensive ability of Drew, but at the plate they are very comparable.

Yeah, and does Drew get invited to slumber parties at ARod's?

IslandRed
08-14-2008, 05:03 PM
So the Reds aren't sure if they want to give him a major league contract but they don't care to waste roster spots on Bako, Valentin, Majewski, Fogg, Andy Phillips, Hopper, and others? Sheesh.

That's not really the principle at stake here. Giving a draftee a major-league contract effectively cuts in half the time you have for him to develop before you have to make the "fish or cut bait" decision. In theory, a draftee such as Alonso shouldn't need more than the three option years to get up and stick, but injuries do happen.

Having said that, I would give him the major-league contract if that ends up being the sticking point. I think the money is the bigger issue from what everyone's saying.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 05:05 PM
If the spot on the 40 man is the big hangup (and he'll sign for around slot or slightly above), I'd say go ahead and give it to him. I'm not a big fan of doing that, but I would.

I agree with those who have stated that he doesn't play a premium position nor is he a great defender and there for, should not be given sick money.

The big leverage that Alonso has is that the Reds are in rebuild mode and Cast claims to be serious about wanting to win soon. Seriously, what kind of leverage will Alonso have next year? Even if he went to Miami or played for another league, he has zero financial leverage next year. Whoever takes him can pretty much pay him slot money. He may not even go as high next year. What will he do then? Sit out another year?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 05:06 PM
This 40-man is so talent-thin that it'd be a crime to haggle over the spot.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 05:14 PM
The odds of the Reds trading for a true impact bat or acquiring one via FA are virtually nil for this offseason.

I'm not saying Alonso is definitely the one to fill that void, but the Reds are pretty much down to that.

The only other way the Reds could possibly improve the offense in such a way as to contend next season would be get a bunch of lesser guys to have career years all at once.

_Sir_Charles_
08-14-2008, 05:24 PM
This 40-man is so talent-thin that it'd be a crime to haggle over the spot.

I personally don't think there's a chance that the hold up is a spot on the 40-man. It's quite simple, the Reds don't want to pay an unknown talent 7 million. He's not taken a single big league or minor league swing with a wood bat. I hope they don't do it. It sets a VERY bad precedent.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 05:37 PM
I personally don't think there's a chance that the hold up is a spot on the 40-man. It's quite simple, the Reds don't want to pay an unknown talent 7 million. He's not taken a single big league or minor league swing with a wood bat. I hope they don't do it. It sets a VERY bad precedent.

The Reds don't set precedents. Except for failure.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 07:00 PM
IT IS LOOKING more and more like No. 1 draft pick Yonder Alonso won’t sign with the Reds. They have until midnight Friday to sign him. If they don’t, he goes back into the draft pool for next year.

Alonso reportedly wants a $7 million deal and a major-league contract that would put him on the 40-man roster. The Reds are offering $2.5 million and no major-league contract - and that’s about as far apart as opposite ends of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.

Alonso is threatening to return to the University of Miami for his senior year or to spend the rest of the summer and the first part of next year playing independent league baseball.

Alonso said the Reds knew what he wanted when they drafted him and wonder why they went ahead and did it if they thought it would come to this.

Sort of reminds me of 2001 when the Reds drafted pitcher Jeremy Sowers No. 1. Sowers made it clear he was going to attend Vanderbilt University and would not sign if drafted. The Reds had no money for a No. 1 draft pick that year so they drafted Sowers, knowing he wouldn’t sign.

Then they told fans, “Hey, we made a good pick, but he wouldn’t sign.”

Maybe that’s the case this year, too. Who knows? I do know that it was a strange pick, in that Joey Votty is a young first baseman and there are some first base prospects in the system and some scouts believe that Alonzo is, “a bad body type who can only play first base and can only hit. He does nothing else.”

It reminds some of the year the Reds drafted first baseman Simone Peters when they could have drafted Lance Berkman because they thought Peters would hit 50 homers a year. As one man said, “Peters never made it out of ‘A’ ball and Berkman is on his way to the Hall of Fame.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 07:03 PM
the reds just flat out don't want him..

and even though I like Yonder over Beckham, it is just stupid, with Beckham having signed for 2.6

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 07:06 PM
It's beginning to look more and more like the Reds didn't want him in the first place.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 07:11 PM
Wonderful draft, once again. Have the Reds had a good draft since 98?

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 07:12 PM
Wonderful draft, once again. Have the Reds had a good draft since 98?

The 2007 draft was rated among the best. IIRC on draft day '07 one of the BA guys said they liked the Reds draft the best.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 07:16 PM
Jocketty and Reynolds should be embarrassed. Pathetic.

Castellini needs to get in their ears over this.

I certainly hope we get three Conines for the price of one Alonso. More = better.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 07:19 PM
Jocketty and Reynolds should be embarrassed. Pathetic.

Castellini needs to get in their ears over this.

Why should they be embarrassed? Because a kid actually stuck to his predraft demands unlike nearly everyone else?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 07:20 PM
Why should they be embarrassed? Because a kid actually stuck to his predraft demands unlike nearly everyone else?

They should have known he was going to cost more than $3 million freakin' bucks. Heck, that kind of cash doesn't get you in the door anymore.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 07:21 PM
Why should they be embarrassed? Because a kid actually stuck to his predraft demands unlike nearly everyone else?
but to be so far off

2.5 with no ML contract, really Reds?! if they were at about 4 mil with an ML contract I wouldn't be that concerned, but 2.5!?

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 07:22 PM
What gets me is the Reds knew Alonso was asking for the moon and still drafted him despite Beckham still being on the board. Nearly everyone thought Beckham to the Reds was a lock. I get the feeling the Reds punted this pick.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 07:23 PM
They should have known he was going to cost more than $3 million freakin' bucks. Heck, that kind of cash doesn't get you in the door anymore.

Uh, yes it does. See Gordon Beckham. See nearly every #7 draft pick in the history of baseball. Someone needs to step up and set up mandatory slotting. You get where you were drafted. Period. Don't like it? Go back to school and get drafted higher.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 07:28 PM
I have little interest in Beckham.

The Reds drafted the right player; they just got small-brained when it came time to pay the tab.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 07:31 PM
plenty of time to make a deal

but both sides have to want it

if I'm the Reds, I don't go above what Matusz got from the Os at #4

Alonso's a 1B, not a pitcher or catcher

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 07:32 PM
plenty of time to make a deal

but both sides have to want it

if I'm the Reds, I don't go above what Matusz got from the Os at #4

Alonso's a 1B, not a pitcher or catcher

Which is why I don't even offer what Matusz got. Matusz is a much better prospect than Alonso is, why should Alonso get as much?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Which is why I don't even offer what Matusz got. Matusz is a much better prospect than Alonso is, why should Alonso get as much?

Because he's closer to the majors.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Because he's closer to the majors.

Is he? Really? I wouldn't be so sure, and even with that said, I don't think that should come into play into how much money someone gets. Sorry, if you go #7 overall, you don't get 7 million bucks.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Which is why I don't even offer what Matusz got. Matusz is a much better prospect than Alonso is, why should Alonso get as much?

I think I read that Matusz will get 3.1 and a major league deal. I'm assuming the Reds like Alonso, so going half a mill over Beckham's 2.6 plus a major league deal seems more than fair to me. If Alonso thinks he's like Posey and deserves a real outlier contract inside the top 10, he's wrong, in my opinion.

Brett Wallace, who the Cards got at #13, may end up a better a hitter than YA, I think.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 07:48 PM
If the Reds are only offering $2.5 million, the need to up the ante. I'm sure we'll get official figures soon enough, but $2.5 is too low. They should be offering a minimum of 3-3.5 and I'd probably go as high as 4, but 4 max.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 07:51 PM
If the Reds are only offering $2.5 million, the need to up the ante. I'm sure we'll get official figures soon enough, but $2.5 is too low. They should be offering a minimum of 3-3.5 and I'd probably go as high as 4, but 4 max.

The Reds are offering slot money. So I don't exactly blame them for standing their ground. I would also max out at 4 mill, but I don't think that gets it done.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 07:53 PM
Seeing as how they are paying Dusty Baker $3.5M and Corey Patterson $3M, you'd think they could come up with an extra 500K to a Million, especially when you consider they just saved some coin in the Dunn and Griffey trades.

The Reds are real close to entering Bungaldom and the whole baseball world is waiting to see how they handle this dilemma.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 07:56 PM
The Reds are offering slot money. So I don't exactly blame them for standing their ground. I would also max out at 4 mill, but I don't think that gets it done.

Beckham received more (at a lower pick) than what the Reds are offering Alonso. Does that not scream cheap? I'd be discouraged too if I were Alonso.

Maybe they plan to go up to $4 tomorrow. I don't know if 4 will or will not get it done, but 4 sure sounds a lot better than 2.5, especially if you're Alonso.

laxtonto
08-14-2008, 07:57 PM
I still dont understand why Alonso of Smoak... espically now

LouisvilleCARDS
08-14-2008, 07:59 PM
Don't worry, we're not willing to pay a possible big prospect half of what we're paying for a closer with a 4.5 ERA who only has about a 75% success rate.

Man this franchise continues to get dumber and dumber.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Don't worry, we're not willing to pay a possible big prospect half of what we're paying for a closer with a 4.5 ERA who only has about a 75% success rate.

Man this franchise continues to get dumber and dumber.

Bout sums it up, honestly.

OnBaseMachine
08-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Walt Jocketty made it sound like if Yonder Alonso doersn't come off his hard stance Alonso will not be a Red.

“We’re hopefully,” Jocketty said. “We’ve worked pretty hard on it (Wednesday). We’ll continue to work on it up to the deadline.

“But they’ve given us one number. We’re not going to negotiate against ourselves.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a3d947f85-c533-4c48-ab93-d41c81254806&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Beckham received more (at a lower pick) than what the Reds are offering Alonso. Does that not scream cheap? I'd be discouraged too if I were Alonso.

Maybe they plan to go up to $4 tomorrow. I don't know if 4 will or will not get it done, but 4 sure sounds a lot better than 2.5, especially if you're Alonso.

Beckham got more than slot. Even if the Reds got 600,000 over slot, its not going to get the job done. Bascially, Alonso is asking for 4.5 million more than the 2.5 million slot money. Thats ridiculous. Plain and simple.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-14-2008, 08:01 PM
Bout sums it up, honestly.

Wow that was fast, posted and then after it refreshes already got a response. LOL. I thought I was just buzzed off these Icehouse's.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:04 PM
My guess is the Reds are the only team who doesn't sign their first pick.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 08:06 PM
My guess is the Reds are the only team who doesn't sign their first pick.

Nationals aren't going to either. Crow already signed with the Ft Worth Cats. His agent called Bowden yesterday and Bowden said they had nothing to talk about.

lollipopcurve
08-14-2008, 08:07 PM
“But they’ve given us one number. We’re not going to negotiate against ourselves.”

Attaboy, Walt. Alonso's move. If they sit on their number and don't negotiate, good riddance. Yonder can go play celebrity sidekick at ARod's.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-14-2008, 08:07 PM
I read people saying we would get two top 10 picks next year if he doesn't sign? Can someone explain compensation on this to me?

HokieRed
08-14-2008, 08:13 PM
I applaud Walt for this. He's taking the strong position; it shows he's an experienced negotiator. I think we have seen the end of ridiculous contracts that tie up the organization for years. You always have to be willing to walk away. This may be the time.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:13 PM
Nationals aren't going to either. Crow already signed with the Ft Worth Cats. His agent called Bowden yesterday and Bowden said they had nothing to talk about.

Some good company to be in there.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 08:16 PM
I read people saying we would get two top 10 picks next year if he doesn't sign? Can someone explain compensation on this to me?
well if we dont don;t sign him we get the 7b. or really the 8th overall pick next year. and for the other pick, that is just the normal pick which looks like it will be a top 10

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 08:16 PM
Beckham got more than slot. Even if the Reds got 600,000 over slot, its not going to get the job done. Bascially, Alonso is asking for 4.5 million more than the 2.5 million slot money. Thats ridiculous. Plain and simple.

I don't disagree with the premise here, but the Reds need to up the ante. If they're offering $2.5 when the pick behind the Reds is getting more, that's a problem.

I assume that's the plan, but it will come to fruition tomorrow.

If Alonso and his agent are unwilling to back off the $7 million, they seriously need to tell him to take a hike. He's not Josh Beckett or Rick Porcello.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 08:30 PM
PITTSBURGH -- The Reds appeared willing to meet one of first-round Draft pick Yonder Alonso's demands, but still remained far apart during contract negotiations on Thursday. Alonso, the No. 7 overall pick in this year's Draft out of the University of Miami, is reportedly seeking $7 million. That's been a sticking point for the Reds.

The 22-year-old first baseman also wants a Major League contract, which would require Alonso to be placed on the Reds' 40-man roster. Cincinnati is more willing to budge on that issue.
"That's something very important to him. It's something we will consider," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said.

Major League clubs have until a midnight ET Friday deadline to sign players they drafted, or they lose the rights.
Jocketty, scouting director Chris Buckley and assistant GM Bob Miller are negotiating for the club with agent Greg Genske, who is serving as Alonso's advisor. Genske did not return calls seeking comment.

"I spent most of the day today dealing with it," Jocketty said of the talks. "I thought we made progress, but we're still a long ways apart. I'm waiting for them to come back to us. They haven't come off of their number."

The Reds are believed to trying to keep Alonso's contract close to the slot-system figure of $3 million.
Both sides have contingencies that help their leverage. Alonso has publicly said he's willing to return for his senior season at Miami or play in an independent league. The Reds would get a first-round compensation pick next year in the No. 8 overall spot, plus their original pick.

"Right now, I'd say it's 50-50," Jocketty said of the chances the Reds would be able to sign Alonso.


from reds.com

LouisvilleCARDS
08-14-2008, 08:31 PM
If we got two top ten picks next year, which it looks like, then I can see why we don't care too much about getting picks for Dunn.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:32 PM
If we got two top ten picks next year, which it looks like, then I can see why we don't care too much about getting picks for Dunn.

Unless they punt those two picks as well.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't disagree with the premise here, but the Reds need to up the ante. If they're offering $2.5 when the pick behind the Reds is getting more, that's a problem.

I assume that's the plan, but it will come to fruition tomorrow.

If Alonso and his agent are unwilling to back off the $7 million, they seriously need to tell him to take a hike. He's not Josh Beckett or Rick Porcello.

WJ stated they were not going to negotiate against themselves. Until the Alonso camp moves there is no negotaition

_Sir_Charles_
08-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Unless they punt those two picks as well.

But then we'd get THREE picks the next year. Wow. :D:rolleyes:

LouisvilleCARDS
08-14-2008, 08:36 PM
Unless they punt those two picks as well.

But .. we would get THREE picks for 2010! :beerme:

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 08:42 PM
WJ stated they were not going to negotiate against themselves. Until the Alonso camp moves there is no negotaition

Yeah, but what he doesn't say is whether or not they've moved off their slot offer....

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 09:03 PM
But .. we would get THREE picks for 2010! :beerme:
nope you only get one do over. So the #8 pick(alonso's pick) next year would be top priority in signing

Always Red
08-14-2008, 09:08 PM
Unless they punt those two picks as well.

Yes, if we can't sign one this year, why on earth would we be able to sign 2 next year??

flyer85
08-14-2008, 09:11 PM
If we can't sign one this year, why on earth would we be able to sign 2 next year??
draft guys that aren't asking 3 times slot money

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:13 PM
draft guys that aren't asking 3 times slot money

Top ten guys ask for more every year. Especially guys capable of walking into the majors.

This won't get any easier.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:19 PM
Top ten guys ask for more every year. Especially guys capable of walking into the majors.

This won't get any easier.

The amount of guys able to walk into the majors is limited to about 1 guy every 3 years or so, if that. I don't think Alonso is that guy, otherwise he likely wouldn't have been 'overdrafted' by the Reds at #7. And it will get easier if MLB grows a pair and rather than having 'suggested slotting' have actual slotting. Get what you are drafted at.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:20 PM
The amount of guys able to walk into the majors is limited to about 1 guy every 3 years or so, if that. I don't think Alonso is that guy, otherwise he likely wouldn't have been 'overdrafted' by the Reds at #7. And it will get easier if MLB grows a pair and rather than having 'suggested slotting' have actual slotting. Get what you are drafted at.

I doubt they'll adopt something that prevents prospects from earning a payday.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:24 PM
I doubt they'll adopt something that prevents prospects from earning a payday.

Earning a payday? The slot says 2.5 million for Alonso. Thats a payday every single person on this board wishes they had. I don't know why they wouldn't adopt something that would be for the betterment of baseball. A slotting system would indeed make baseball's draft serve its actual purpose. Teams would finally start taking the best player available every time. We wouldn't see things like the second best player in a draft going 27th overall like we did in 2007. We won't see things like Matt Bush going #1 overall. Its so simple it hurts.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:26 PM
Earning a payday? The slot says 2.5 million for Alonso. Thats a payday every single person on this board wishes they had. I don't know why they wouldn't adopt something that would be for the betterment of baseball. A slotting system would indeed make baseball's draft serve its actual purpose. Teams would finally start taking the best player available every time. We wouldn't see things like the second best player in a draft going 27th overall like we did in 2007. We won't see things like Matt Bush going #1 overall. Its so simple it hurts.

Because it's not for the betterment of the prospects. Why shouldn't these prospects get to ask for what most teams are willing to pay?

nate
08-14-2008, 09:30 PM
Because it's not for the betterment of the prospects. Why shouldn't these prospects get to ask for what most teams are willing to pay?

Do you think most teams would give Alonso what he's asking for?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:31 PM
Do you think most teams would give Alonso what he's asking for?

I don't know. But that's not the point. He should have the right to *ask* for it.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:32 PM
Because it's not for the betterment of the prospects. Why shouldn't these prospects get to ask for what most teams are willing to pay?

Because the idea of the draft is to help even the playing field. If the rich can continue to just get richer because some teams can't take a risk like other teams can because some unproven talent is demanding a whole lot more than nearly everyone else in the draft (and at this point its 750,000 more than everyone else in the draft has gotten except one guy), how is it ever going to be fixed?

Teams need to draft the BPA every time. Money makes that not happen a whole lot. It needs to be fixed. Setting it up so you get paid by where you are drafted eliminates all of that. There is no negotiations between the teams and the players. Either you sign for X or you go back to school/independent baseball. Teams won't pass up premiere talent anymore. It will level the playing field.

It will never happen, but it should.

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:32 PM
Because the idea of the draft is to help even the playing field. .

No it's not.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Do you think most teams would give Alonso what he's asking for?

I don't think a single team in baseball would give him a 7 million dollar major league contract. Not one.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:33 PM
No it's not.

Its not? Then why do the teams with the worst records draft first and the teams with the bet records draft last?

Falls City Beer
08-14-2008, 09:34 PM
Its not? Then why do the teams with the worst records draft first and the teams with the bet records draft last?

Throwin' the dog a bone. Symbolism.

It's a game of dollars and cents.