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dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:36 PM
Throwin' the dog a bone. Symbolism.

It's a game of dollars and cents.

Sure, and some teams have a lot more than others. Thats why those teams generally draft last, they win a lot more than the others. The others generally get first dibs on the best amateur players in the country in an effort to attempt to even the playing field.

redhawk61
08-14-2008, 09:36 PM
No it's not.
yeah it is, the goal though unachievable, for any professional sports league is to have all teams finish .500.

nate
08-14-2008, 09:37 PM
I don't know. But that's not the point. He should have the right to *ask* for it.

He can ask for whatever he wants. But you said he should be able to ask for what most teams are willing to pay. So I wonder if most teams would give him what he's looking for. If not, what would they be willing to pay?

I want the Reds to sign him, but his posturing is lame.

flyer85
08-14-2008, 09:43 PM
He can ask for whatever he wants. But you said he should be able to ask for what most teams are willing to pay. So I wonder if most teams would give him what he's looking for. If not, what would they be willing to pay?

I want the Reds to sign him, but his posturing is lame.
his agent feels that the way to get the best deal is to take it right to the deadline. It's dangerous because your client may end up with nothing but it will establish a reputation like Boras(if you draft his players you either pay or they won't sign .. he is the only agent who is successful at this at the moment as teams pass on his clients because they don't want to deal with him)

redsmetz
08-14-2008, 09:44 PM
It reminds some of the year the Reds drafted first baseman Simone Peters when they could have drafted Lance Berkman because they thought Peters would hit 50 homers a year. As one man said, “Peters never made it out of ‘A’ ball and Berkman is on his way to the Hall of Fame.”

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

But we didn't pick Samone Peters ahead of Berkman. We took Brandon Larson in the first round two picks ahead of Berkman. Not much better as it all worked out, but the draft is fraught with picks like that unfortunately. Peters was taken in the 25th round and, man, could he smack the daylights out of that Single A pitching. No good to the ML club, of course.

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 09:55 PM
Throwin' the dog a bone. Symbolism.

It's a game of dollars and cents.

The NFL and the NBA certainly have figured out a way to level the playing field. Why can't MLB?

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 09:57 PM
The NFL and the NBA certainly have figured out a way to level the playing field. Why can't MLB?

I don't think MLB wants to.

Always Red
08-14-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't think a single team in baseball would give him a 7 million dollar major league contract. Not one.

I also agree that Yonder's posturing is somewhat lame and that his asking price is absurd. Especially for a pretty one dimensional player. Didn't we just let one of those go for 3 minor leaguers?

On the other hand, I'd like the Reds to get this guy signed.

Then again, maybe he's not too far off base? All signs point to Posey signing a $7.5 million dollar bonus. (Yes I know that Posey is a C) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080814&content_id=3308332&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

fearofpopvol1
08-14-2008, 10:00 PM
I don't think MLB wants to.

I don't either, but I'm just pointing out that the playing field can be leveled. There's too much money from the major market teams that is generated which is why MLB has ignored the idea of salary caps.

dougdirt
08-14-2008, 10:04 PM
I don't either, but I'm just pointing out that the playing field can be leveled. There's too much money from the major market teams that is generated which is why MLB has ignored the idea of salary caps.

MLB not only needs salary caps, they need salary floors. It would also help distribute the talent across baseball.

Cyclone792
08-14-2008, 10:07 PM
Hmmm ... midnight Friday ... as in two hours from now or 26 hours from now? I'm assuming two hours from now since midnight is technically Friday morning, but just checking to be sure.

Grande Donkey
08-14-2008, 10:08 PM
26 hours.

757690
08-14-2008, 10:16 PM
Just some interesting, meaningless info on Greg Genske, Alonso's agent. He also represents Adam Dunn and C.C. Sabathia, and was the agent that Manny dropped in favor of Boras this year.
Maybe he is trying to show Manny that he has a pair?

DntKnw
08-14-2008, 10:17 PM
A negotiation involves two sides trying to come to a common agreement that is beneficial to both parties. One side throws out a number, the other side responds, and so on, until a compromise is reached.

Alonso threw out a # of $7MM even though he was only the 7th pick in the draft. The Reds first response to this proposal was the slot # of $2.5MM, which is what they are required to do by MLB. Alonso hasn't backed off his initial demand and is now pouting that the Reds will not increase their offer when he himself will not come down from his #.

Negotiation 101 is never, never, negotiate against yourself. If the other side will not come off its initial proposal, you walk away. Alonso's demand exceeds what other draft picks are getting and is so far above his slot # that it's laughable.

The Reds were right in drafting him because no one expects an initial proposal to be the final deal. They probably thought they would get something comfortably between slot and Alonso's initial proposal.

And I have an exercise for everyone who believes that the Reds should just cave in because they knew Alonso's demands before they drafted him. Go into your boss tomorrow and demand a salary three times the going rate for your position. When your boss laughs at you, tell him you're going to walk if you don't get it. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The Reds may have made a lot of mistakes in the past decade, but giving into Alonso's childish demands would be the worst of them.

And isn't anyone concerned about the attitude of this guy? Do we really think he is going to be a team player if he even gets to the Show? He sounding more and more like he would be poison in the clubhouse, especially considering he is taking advice from the Yankee's star 3B. Maybe the Reds should have done a little more homework on this guy's intangibles, but who could really know how amateurish he would be in his negotiations.

TheBigLebowski
08-14-2008, 10:22 PM
Wow. We're going to lose Alonso. Not angry at the Reds here - Alonso's demand is ludicrous. Well, actually, the Reds kinda are negligent here....should have drafted Gordon Beckham. SS was more of a position of need and you just never draft a Miami Hurricane, especially one as cocky as Alonso.

fewfirstchoice
08-14-2008, 10:29 PM
I never really understood the Alonso pick from the need side of things. But I really understand it on the talent side. Alonso is really, really talented and the Reds need to sign this kid. Now i know the 7 mil. is a little pricey for the 7th pick but I would probably offer around 5 mil. if Im the Reds. I would hate to see them lose this kid because I believe he will be a all-star.

LoganBuck
08-14-2008, 10:46 PM
I blame Madonna.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-14-2008, 10:51 PM
4 million should do it.

I know it's principle and all, but it just seems kind of funny to haggle over a couple million dollars when you see all the money this club wastes every year on it's 25 man roster. Seriously.

LoganBuck
08-14-2008, 10:56 PM
4 million should do it.

I know it's principle and all, but it just seems kind of funny to haggle over a couple million dollars when you see all the money this club wastes every year on it's 25 man roster. Seriously.

But doesn't making sure Mike Stanton gets paid make you feel good?

FlyerFanatic
08-14-2008, 11:55 PM
i'm going to laugh when we cant sign this guy

posted awhile back....

and i'm grinning a little... :D

j/k, seems ridiculous what hes asking for...i take it if he isnt signed he goes back to miami then?

AmarilloRed
08-15-2008, 12:55 AM
Jocketty still thinks there's a good chance Alonso will sign:


"Right now, I'd say it's 50-50," Jocketty said of the chances the Reds would be able to sign Alonso.

camisadelgolf
08-15-2008, 01:21 AM
Going back to the 1998 draft, don't forget that two other first rounders from that draft have also been in the Reds organization: Mike Nannini and Eric Valent.

Also, 12 players from the 1994 draft have been in the Reds organization. Does anyone want to guess them?

Mario-Rijo
08-15-2008, 01:39 AM
Jocketty still thinks there's a good chance Alonso will sign:


"Right now, I'd say it's 50-50," Jocketty said of the chances the Reds would be able to sign Alonso.

If he is saying that it signals to me that it's less than 50-50, means he isn't real optimistic about it all wouldn't ya'll think?

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-15-2008, 02:16 AM
If he is saying that it signals to me that it's less than 50-50, means he isn't real optimistic about it all wouldn't ya'll think?

I'd say it's just the opposite. He's lowering expectations in case the signing doesn't happen. If he said there's a 75% chance he'll sign, then he doesn't ... ouch!

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 02:17 AM
This was updated about two and a half hours ago:

7. Reds: Yonder Alonso – The two sides seems to be at really severe odds 24 hours ago, but there has been some movement of late, whether or not it turns out to be enough progress in the end is still to be determined. Chances are he’ll still sign, but the chances that he won’t are higher than they should be at this point.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=988

LoganBuck
08-15-2008, 07:31 AM
This was updated about two and a half hours ago:

7. Reds: Yonder Alonso – The two sides seems to be at really severe odds 24 hours ago, but there has been some movement of late, whether or not it turns out to be enough progress in the end is still to be determined. Chances are he’ll still sign, but the chances that he won’t are higher than they should be at this point.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=988

So your tellin' me there is a chance!

flyer85
08-15-2008, 08:46 AM
If he is saying that it signals to me that it's less than 50-50, means he isn't real optimistic about it all wouldn't ya'll think?after midnight it will be 0 or 100

lollipopcurve
08-15-2008, 08:59 AM
the less yapping in the media today, the better the chance he signs

flyer85
08-15-2008, 09:09 AM
the less yapping in the media today, the better the chance he signsBasically every agent wants the gold star of "I did better for my client than the other guys" so they can use it to garner more business. Thats why all unsigned are bunched together in the 2-11 draft slots. They are going to have to decide if the risk of going back in the draft is worth it ... the answer is likely "No". Thats why BP still expects most of them to sign. Chicken is a game where somebody blinks at the last instant ... we are not there yet.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 09:34 AM
Basically every agent wants the gold star of "I did better for my client than the other guys" so they can use it to garner more business. Thats why all unsigned are bunched together in the 2-11 draft slots. They are going to have to decide if the risk of going back in the draft is worth it ... the answer is likely "No". Thats why BP still expects most of them to sign. Chicken is a game where somebody blinks at the last instant ... we are not there yet.

You're right. Alonso's only certain payday is today. Going back to Miami or into the independent leagues carries the risk that he gets injured or falls off from where he is now. Here's hoping he steps back from being needlessly greedy (after all, we're talking huge money either way) and gets on with playing ball.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 09:39 AM
Here's hoping he steps back from being needlessly greedy (after all, we're talking huge money either way) and gets on with playing ball.even Boras clients sign these days. What Boras has been able to do that others have not is to get teams to not draft his clients unless you are willing to pay up.

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 10:20 AM
Hunker down and get it done. This isn't the purchase of your wife's luxury car; this is the purchase of the car you're going to use to get to work every day.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 10:55 AM
At this point, I almost hope he doesn't sign, even for $3-4 million. He's just such a bad fit for our needs, I think I'd rather get the do-over next year. Get me a RH bat that doesn't play a position already occupied by Joey Votto.

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 11:01 AM
At this point, I almost hope he doesn't sign, even for $3-4 million. He's just such a bad fit for our needs, I think I'd rather get the do-over next year. Get me a RH bat that doesn't play a position already occupied by Joey Votto.

Doesn't fit our needs? In what universe?

KoryMac5
08-15-2008, 11:10 AM
If the deal doesn't get done a lot of the blame has to be put on the Reds. Alonso wanted a major league deal worth 7 million dollars. He said it before the draft, and after the draft. If the price was going to be too steep than the Reds should have moved on to a cheaper alternative, that they knew they could sign. Blame Alonso all you want for asking for the moon, but the Reds knew what they were in for when they selected him.

BRM
08-15-2008, 11:13 AM
Doesn't fit our needs? In what universe?

I'll take a plus bat anyday, regardless of position.

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 11:13 AM
I'll take a plus bat anyday, regardless of position.

The Reds' best hitter right now is 21. Serious problem.

BRM
08-15-2008, 11:15 AM
How soon before Alonso could suit up, if he signs today? Anyone know?

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:19 AM
How soon before Alonso could suit up, if he signs today? Anyone know?
tmmr or maybe Sunday/Monday. Cause if they sign him they will want him to come to Cincy probably for a press conference(they still do that right? I remember they did it for Bruce, don't remember Stubbs or Mez doing it), I wonder where they would place him, I fully believe he could handle SAR right now, but they might want to place him with DAY, to give the fans a look see at him.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 11:22 AM
How soon before Alonso could suit up, if he signs today? Anyone know?

He can play almost immediately after he signs. It never works out that way, but technically it could.

BRM
08-15-2008, 11:27 AM
I'll be interested to see where and when he starts. He won't get many at-bats this year either way.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 11:30 AM
I'll be interested to see where and when he starts. He won't get many at-bats this year either way.

I would be surprised if he played anywhere other than instructional league.

Steve4192
08-15-2008, 11:30 AM
Someone needs to give Yonder Matt Harrington's phone number and tell him to ask Matt how the independent leagues worked out for him.

lollipopcurve
08-15-2008, 11:31 AM
I would be surprised if he played anywhere other than instructional league.

Hawaiian League

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 11:32 AM
Hawaiian League

Or AFL, but I don't think he will go to either.

RedsManRick
08-15-2008, 11:34 AM
At what point does his rule V status clock start? I realize he'll probably get a major league deal, so it will be irrelevant, but I'm curious. If he doesn't play until 2009, would 2008 still count as a year in the organization?

lollipopcurve
08-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Or AFL, but I don't think he will go to either.

Last year, Wieters signed late and went to Hawaii.

camisadelgolf
08-15-2008, 11:53 AM
At what point does his rule V status clock start? I realize he'll probably get a major league deal, so it will be irrelevant, but I'm curious. If he doesn't play until 2009, would 2008 still count as a year in the organization?

It starts when he signs. 2008 would count toward his rule V status clock. In other words, he'd need to be on the 40-man roster in 2012 to be protected.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 11:56 AM
Last year, Wieters signed late and went to Hawaii.

Yeah, but Wieters doesn't play for the Reds.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 11:59 AM
The Reds have 12 hours to get something done.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 01:11 PM
From Fay:
The Reds are still trying to get a deal done with top pick Yonder Alonso.
The San Francisco Giants are going to offer Buster Posey a $7.5 million, major league deal, according to the San Jose Mercury News. That's the precedent Alonso's people were waiting for. Posey, a catcher from Florida State, was picked two spots ahead of Alonso.
Six of top 10 picks remain officially unsigned.
By the way, the drive back from Pittsburgh was a breeze. Made it in under 4 1/2 hours. Of course, I made the huge sacrifice of missing the REO Speedwagon concert to beat the traffic.
Retrospective on the Reds taking two of three from the Pirates: It's all about the pithing. The Reds won the games they got good starts in and lost the game they got a bad start in.
Also, Chris Dickerson is an interesting player. He can run for a big man.

TheBigLebowski
08-15-2008, 01:17 PM
From Fay:
The Reds are still trying to get a deal done with top pick Yonder Alonso.
The San Francisco Giants are going to offer Buster Posey a $7.5 million, major league deal, according to the San Jose Mercury News. That's the precedent Alonso's people were waiting for. Posey, a catcher from Florida State, was picked two spots ahead of Alonso.
Six of top 10 picks remain officially unsigned.
By the way, the drive back from Pittsburgh was a breeze. Made it in under 4 1/2 hours. Of course, I made the huge sacrifice of missing the REO Speedwagon concert to beat the traffic.
Retrospective on the Reds taking two of three from the Pirates: It's all about the pithing. The Reds won the games they got good starts in and lost the game they got a bad start in.
Also, Chris Dickerson is an interesting player. He can run for a big man.

Pithing is indeed critical.

buckeyenut
08-15-2008, 01:17 PM
OK, so if Posey gets 7.5M ML deal two spots ahead that early in the draft 7M ML is a little high, but 6M ML deal should be agreeable, right?

BRM
08-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Does the fact that Posey is a catcher matter at all in the negotiations? I'm guessing it does if you're the Reds but not if you're Alonso. Or are all plus bats equal, regardless of position?

AmarilloRed
08-15-2008, 01:21 PM
The Posey offer may indeed hurt the Reds negotiating ability. They may end offering more than they originally planned to.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 01:21 PM
OK, so if Posey gets 7.5M ML deal two spots ahead that early in the draft 7M ML is a little high, but 6M ML deal should be agreeable, right?

No, 6 million is still way too much. The guy directly behind him got 2.6 million, plays a premium position and was a college player too. 4 million is the best I would offer. If he leaves it, can you really fault the Reds for going about 1.5 million over slot and the kid walked away?

flyer85
08-15-2008, 01:22 PM
OK, so if Posey gets 7.5M ML deal two spots ahead that early in the draft 7M ML is a little high, but 6M ML deal should be agreeable, right?nope, he isn't Posey(who wanted 12M). He is nowhere near the prospect that Posey is. I could see the Reds going to 3.5M but I would be surprised if they go higher. $3.5M would be a considerable increase over what Laporta(a very similar player) got in the 7 slot last year.

Posey put up better numbers than Alonso and is regarded as an above average defender at a premium position. I would have taken him with the first pick in the draft.

BRM
08-15-2008, 01:23 PM
nope, he isn't Posey(who wanted 12M). He is nowhere near the prospect that Posey is. I could see the Reds going to 3.5M but I would be surprised if they go higher. $3.5M would be a considerable increase over what Laporta(a very similar player) got in the 7 slot last year.

I don't think Alonso or his agent care about what happened last year.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't think Alonso or his agent care about what happened last year.

Then they can think the exact same thing next year, when they are still trying to get someone to pay him 7 million bucks for a signing bonus as a first baseman. Its not going to happen.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't think Alonso or his agent care about what happened last year.if Alonso and Genske want to get a deal done, they should. Genske is not Boras and he doesn't have the gravitas that only Boras has. Not signing a deal isn't going to help his status an agent.

Remember Tanzer and Harrington. You don't see Tanzer representing high draftees anymore.

BRM
08-15-2008, 01:28 PM
Then they can think the exact same thing next year, when they are still trying to get someone to pay him 7 million bucks for a signing bonus as a first baseman. Its not going to happen.

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying I really doubt they are entertaining what draftees received last year as any basis during the negotiations.

bucksfan2
08-15-2008, 01:30 PM
I don't think Alonso or his agent care about what happened last year.

Alonso has a chance to become a very rich man. It will be interesting to see where the negotiations go from here. You can stand firm on you 7M all you want and at midnight tonight you will go back to being a college student. Alonso's agent may also feel some pressure because he failed to get his top drafted client signed. The guy would be foolish to walk away from 3.5-4M if the Reds offered it to him.

KoryMac5
08-15-2008, 01:33 PM
No, 6 million is still way too much. The guy directly behind him got 2.6 million, plays a premium position and was a college player too. 4 million is the best I would offer. If he leaves it, can you really fault the Reds for going about 1.5 million over slot and the kid walked away?

How can you not fault the Reds in this situation. They knew what Alonso wanted and still drafted him anyways. If 6 million is too much why would you draft a kid that wanted 7 million.

Hoosier Red
08-15-2008, 01:37 PM
Because what he wants and what he gets are two different things. If they drafted Beckham would you have ripped them for only taking someone for his signability?

Posey wanted 12 Million, he got 7.
Perhaps Yonder wants 7, but will get 5 or 4 or 3.

Always Red
08-15-2008, 01:39 PM
How can you not fault the Reds in this situation. They knew what Alonso wanted and still drafted him anyways. If 6 million is too much why would you draft a kid that wanted 7 million.

Because that figure is understood and seen by everyone as a starting point for negotiation.

Didn't Posey say he wanted $12 million? Did anyone think he would get that? He "settled" for 7.5 million. Adam Dunn told his teammates in the clubhouse that he wants $100 million. Negotiation is the name of the game- it's not Kroger, where everything has a price tag on it- this is more like an Arabian bazaar, where one is expected to negotiate.

I don't blame the Reds, unless they pull a Sowers. I think 3.5-4 million is an extremely fair offer.

dougdirt
08-15-2008, 01:42 PM
How can you not fault the Reds in this situation. They knew what Alonso wanted and still drafted him anyways. If 6 million is too much why would you draft a kid that wanted 7 million.

Because every draftee floats a number predraft and nearly every time they come down to about 60% of that number. Pedro Alvarez, the #2 overall pick floated a 12 and 15 million dollar price tag. Really, you think he and his agent really think they can get that? Of course not. You start with a high demand and work your way down to where you actually think you can get. Thats how everyone does it.... except for maybe Alonso.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 01:44 PM
I guess I am not nearly as pessimistic as most on this board. Iwould be surprised if a deal isn't made. There is just too much risk with too little upside for Alonso to walk away and take his chances next year. Doesn't make any sense for him to go back in the draft after getting selected at #7.

LoganBuck
08-15-2008, 01:48 PM
How can you not fault the Reds in this situation. They knew what Alonso wanted and still drafted him anyways. If 6 million is too much why would you draft a kid that wanted 7 million.

I see this line of logic used, and while I agree, I can see the other side. When the Reds drafted Homer Bailey, Jered Weaver was available and he had outrageous demands as well rumored to be $10.5 million and a major league contract. He eventually signed for $5.5 with the MLB contract. Some on this board still bring up how the Reds should have taken Weaver instead of Bailey. The Reds would be better off today if they did.

I say find a compromise position in the $5 million range and do the deal.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 01:48 PM
I agree with most here that 7 million for a draftee is ridiculous, but why are we so upset about it? It's not OUR money, it's Cast's. I don't see this signing changing our payroll budget or anything. I have a feeling that we'll get a deal done (especially with the Posey signing) but I'm not going to fret over the final dollar amount. If the Reds are certain that this is the kid they want, then they work to bring his demand down but at the end of the day it's a decision of how badly they want him.

camisadelgolf
08-15-2008, 01:51 PM
If the Reds pay Alonso $10mm, I think it's a good signing as long as he's actually a really good first baseman.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 01:52 PM
Pithing is indeed critical.

From John Fay, pithing would be welcome.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 02:11 PM
10 hours left.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 02:23 PM
I guess I am not nearly as pessimistic as most on this board. Iwould be surprised if a deal isn't made. There is just too much risk with too little upside for Alonso to walk away and take his chances next year. Doesn't make any sense for him to go back in the draft after getting selected at #7.

I'm precisely where you are. As I said earlier today, the only payday he can be certain of is today. And regardless where that number comes in, it's an enormous dollar amount. You can go hang out at A Rod's crib, if you want, but you're risking a lot of money piddling around in an independent league or going back to college.

SeeinRed
08-15-2008, 02:35 PM
I'm precisely where you are. As I said earlier today, the only payday he can be certain of is today. And regardless where that number comes in, it's an enormous dollar amount. You can go hang out at A Rod's crib, if you want, but you're risking a lot of money piddling around in an independent league or going back to college.

I agree with those thoughts. I think that a lot of what we hear is hard talk so neither side gives up too much during negotiations. What we hear, and what is actually going on is usually two seperate things. We'll see what happens.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Doesn't fit our needs? In what universe?

In the universe where we already have a young 1B and two good, young, middle-of-the order LH bats. You know, the universe we (well, at least "I") live in.

If Alonso walks, then we get to pick another Alonso next year, hopefully one that fits the holes better. So where's the harm?

11larkin11
08-15-2008, 02:38 PM
In the universe where we already have a young 1B and two good, young middle-of-the order LH bats. You know, the universe we (well, at least "I") live in.

But we are missing a LF, and *gasp* Votto played there a lot in AAA just in case Dunn was traded! I dont give a crap what side of the plate he hits from, you could give me 3 LHH and throw in 2 RHH in between for all I care. We have four hitters we are relying on right now, Bruce, Votto, EE, and Phillips. Throw in Yonder and a platoon of Stubbs-Dickerson and I like that team.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 02:41 PM
But we are missing a LF, and *gasp* Votto played there a lot in AAA just in case Dunn was traded! I dont give a crap what side of the plate he hits from, you could give me 3 LHH and throw in 2 RHH in between for all I care. We have four hitters we are relying on right now, Bruce, Votto, EE, and Phillips. Throw in Yonder and a platoon of Stubbs-Dickerson and I like that team.

You should care which side he bats from, because Bruce can't hit lefties and neither can Alonso. That would be probably our two best hitters easily neutralized. Teams will be lining-up their southpaws against us. Plus, Votto struggled in LF.

redsfan30
08-15-2008, 02:42 PM
This kid just reeks of somebody who's going to leave for the huge money, big market at the first possible chance he gets. Don't give in to his demands. Unless he backs WAY off, let him walk.

oneupper
08-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Reminds me of DEAL or NO DEAL. :D

11larkin11
08-15-2008, 02:46 PM
You should care which side he bats from, because Bruce can't hit lefties and neither can Alonso. That would be probably our two best hitters easily neutralized. Teams will be lining-up their southpaws against us. Plus, Votto struggled in LF.

Then you have Stubbs, Phillips, Edwin, Hanigan, and Gonzalez/Hairston/Keppinger to hit him, and on some nights, Micah Owings. Votto is a very good athlete and has struggled some at first as well. LF is the easiest position in baseball and I wouldnt mind him there with Dickerson/Stubbs playing GG defense beside him.

LoganBuck
08-15-2008, 02:49 PM
This kid just reeks of somebody who's going to leave for the huge money, big market at the first possible chance he gets. Don't give in to his demands. Unless he backs WAY off, let him walk.

Unless they grew up in the greater Cincinnati area doesn't this apply to all players with talent?

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 02:50 PM
You should care which side he bats from, because Bruce can't hit lefties and neither can Alonso. That would be probably our two best hitters easily neutralized. Teams will be lining-up their southpaws against us. Plus, Votto struggled in LF.
Says who? in fact Alonso should excel against lefties since he has great ability to hit the opposite way, much like Votto

puca
08-15-2008, 02:51 PM
Then you have Stubbs, Phillips, Edwin, Hanigan, and Gonzalez/Hairston/Keppinger to hit him, and on some nights, Micah Owings.

Ugh....is that supposed to be a good thing?

I'm so totally depressed now.

guttle11
08-15-2008, 02:56 PM
In the universe where we already have a young 1B and two good, young, middle-of-the order LH bats. You know, the universe we (well, at least "I") live in.

Drafting for need in baseball does not exist in the manner of which you speak.

The baseball draft is about the size of the "class". If you need pitching, you take a bunch of pitching. If you need hitting, you take a bunch of pitching. You're building assets. Only about 10 or so of this years Reds draftees will play in the bigs. A handful may be regulars. Few (if that) of this year's draftees will ever play for the Reds.

However, the first round (especially the top 15 picks) is separate from the rest of the draft.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 02:56 PM
Says who? in fact Alonso should excel against lefties since he has great ability to hit the opposite way, much like Votto

Maybe, but the book on him is that he can't hit lefties.

TheBigLebowski
08-15-2008, 02:57 PM
This kid just reeks of somebody who's going to leave for the huge money, big market at the first possible chance he gets. Don't give in to his demands. Unless he backs WAY off, let him walk.

From watching him several times in college, I can tell you he's one cocky mofo. I never liked him. If and when he becomes a Red and produces I'm sure I can jump on board.

Strikes Out Looking
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
How is ARod's comments to Alonso not tampering? While Arod isn't Yankee management, he does have a long term contract with them and is clearly trying to influence Alonso's decision.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
Drafting for need in baseball does not exist.

That's not exactly true. Teams do focus on their organizational make-up on draft day. They don't necessarily sit there and say "we're going to have X position open in Y amount of years, so our first-round pick should be at position X." But if you have no pitching, you're looking for pitching. If you need middle-infielders, you're looking for middle-infielders.

Even in our recent history, Stubbs and Mesoraco were not BPA. So yeah, teams do look at need to a degree.

Kc61
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
This kid just reeks of somebody who's going to leave for the huge money, big market at the first possible chance he gets. Don't give in to his demands. Unless he backs WAY off, let him walk.

The successful teams don't care if someone wants to leave for huge money eventually. CC Sabathia left for huge money. And the Indians cashed him in for a boatload of talent. Texiera was traded twice for good value for the same reason.

This is not about loyalty and it's not about making a lifetime commitment. It is about value. Plain and simple.

Alonso is reputedly a terrific hitter -- for average, power and high OBP. If that is true, he will have enormous value and when his free agency time comes up the Reds can swap him for a significant return.

Of course there are limits on how much to spend. But the question is not whether Alonso will someday leave for a bigger market.

guttle11
08-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Even in our recent history, Stubbs and Mesoraco were not BPA. So yeah, teams do look at need to a degree.

And many (most?) thought they were reaches at best.

I had already edited my prior post to elaborate.

Doc. Scott
08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
And many (most?) thought they were reaches at best.

BPA is a little subjective, of course, but I disagree; both players were selected around the spot where they were forecast to go. Mesoraco was a fast riser, just like Jay Bruce.

RED VAN HOT
08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
This kid just reeks of somebody who's going to leave for the huge money, big market at the first possible chance he gets. Don't give in to his demands. Unless he backs WAY off, let him walk.

I agree and it scares me. Early on, I would expect kids to be happy with the bonus and a chance to become a major leaguer within a few years. That should be their focus. Perhaps it is only posturing, but Alonzo's tone suggests he has assumed his success and is viewing the Reds as a stepping stone.

I expect that the deal will be done at 3 Mil and minor league contract or not at all. I also think he would be foolish not to take that. After walking away this year, he would have to put up fantastic numbers next year to move higher in the draft. His down side risk is far greater than his up side potential.

Degenerate39
08-15-2008, 03:10 PM
How is ARod's comments to Alonso not tampering? While Arod isn't Yankee management, he does have a long term contract with them and is clearly trying to influence Alonso's decision.

Because he's a Yankee. And the Yankees can do no wrong.

Chip R
08-15-2008, 03:18 PM
How is ARod's comments to Alonso not tampering? While Arod isn't Yankee management, he does have a long term contract with them and is clearly trying to influence Alonso's decision.


Alonso is not property of the Reds yet. A-Rod isn't saying he should play for the Yankees. All he's saying is that Alonso can crash on his couch and play for an indy league team if he doesn't get his money and doesn't want to go back to school. Personally, if I weren't going to sign with the Reds, I wouldn't want to leech off A-Rod for a year playing for an indy league team. I'd much rather go back to Coral Gables and rake with an aluminum bat for another year and possibly improve my draft status which means more money.

RedsManRick
08-15-2008, 03:23 PM
If the Reds pay Alonso $10mm, I think it's a good signing as long as he's actually a really good first baseman.

Exactly. From the Reds perspective -- the value standpoint, it makes little difference whether or not he gets $7M or $3.5M. If he becomes anything more than a fringe major leaguer, he's worth it. If he doesn't, he's not. That calculus doesn't really change.

It's more of an issue of how much it's worth to Alonso to slipping in the draft next year and of potentially costing himself a year of MLB salary. Turning down the contract is a bit risk for him. Unless he improves a minor league year's worth while in college, he's setting his career back and limiting his long term earning potential. To say nothing of the risk of getting injured or simply losing shine as a prospect and slipping in the draft.

Strikes Out Looking
08-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Alonso is not property of the Reds yet. A-Rod isn't saying he should play for the Yankees. All he's saying is that Alonso can crash on his couch and play for an indy league team if he doesn't get his money and doesn't want to go back to school. Personally, if I weren't going to sign with the Reds, I wouldn't want to leech off A-Rod for a year playing for an indy league team. I'd much rather go back to Coral Gables and rake with an aluminum bat for another year and possibly improve my draft status which means more money.

In a sense, he is property of the Reds, for at least a few more hours, and a person with another MLB organization is offering him an inducement to not sign with the Reds. Hypothetically, what if Leatherpants was his pal, and he said, you can come crash with me and play a semipro team near my groovy leatherpants pad? Is the difference, one is management and one just a player?

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 03:35 PM
I agree and it scares me. Early on, I would expect kids to be happy with the bonus and a chance to become a major leaguer within a few years. That should be their focus. Perhaps it is only posturing, but Alonzo's tone suggests he has assumed his success and is viewing the Reds as a stepping stone.

I expect that the deal will be done at 3 Mil and minor league contract or not at all. I also think he would be foolish not to take that. After walking away this year, he would have to put up fantastic numbers next year to move higher in the draft. His down side risk is far greater than his up side potential.


I think the owners should accept WIC vouchers for treats at the ballpark. Then pay back season ticket holders if their team sucks.

:)

See how that works? Why is it greed when it comes to the ballplayers, but not greed when it comes to the owners? Don't understand that.

AmarilloRed
08-15-2008, 03:35 PM
I expect that the deal will be done at 3 Mil and minor league contract or not at all. I also think he would be foolish not to take that.

There was some dispute over the type of contract, but the Reds have already conceded on giving him a major league contract. It is now about the size of the bonus.

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 03:38 PM
Exactly. From the Reds perspective -- the value standpoint, it makes little difference whether or not he gets $7M or $3.5M. If he becomes anything more than a fringe major leaguer, he's worth it. If he doesn't, he's not. That calculus doesn't really change.


The thing is the "ifs" are already factored into the slotting. The $3.5 million difference between $7M and $3.5M isn't significant to the big league club, but it means the difference between getting a Yorman Rodgriguez or a Juan Duran and not, which hedges your bets against the busts.

Every time you overpay one guy you suffer elsewhere, and as an organization. One Freel or one Gonzalez or one Alonso doesn't matter much, but when added up, it means the difference between winners and losers.

You can't escape the importance of getting good value on the dollar, because all-in-all, payroll limits are the one thing a GM has no control over.

M2
08-15-2008, 03:57 PM
Why is it greed when it comes to the ballplayers, but not greed when it comes to the owners?

I agree with your confusion on that one.

That said, I don't think Alonso's worth more than $3M. Now, I'd be willing to pay a bit more than I think he's worth to get the deal done. For instance, if he came down to $4M and I was at $3M, I'd give him a $3.5 final offer.

But I've yet to see any indication that there's a reasonable bone in the body of his negotiation team. It sounds like the Reds are the only party that's shown any movement and the final outcome probably needs to be closer to the team's starting number than Alonso's because his starting number was ludicrous.

So, yeah, teams are every bit as greedy (and often far more greedy) than players, but I think the Reds in this case have every right to decide this kid isn't worth anything close to the amount it's going to take to sign him.

And if they make that decision, then I'm referring to him as Milo Alonso in perpetuity.

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 03:57 PM
FRIDAY: The Orioles reached an agreement with Matusz on a Major League deal worth $3.2MM, according to Dan Connolly.... MLBTR.

This should help the negotiations. 8 hours now.

M2
08-15-2008, 04:07 PM
On a separate note, if this deal doesn't get done (and even if it does), will this be the end of Chris Buckley as scouting director?

Buckley hasn't exactly been dead-eye on the talent front and now he's reached to take a 1B who's been a hard signing. I doubt Walt Jocketty is impressed.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 04:13 PM
On a separate note, if this deal doesn't get done (and even if it does), will this be the end of Chris Buckley as scouting director?

Buckley hasn't exactly been dead-eye on the talent front and now he's reached to take a 1B who's been a hard signing. I doubt Walt Jocketty is impressed.
Uh, no. We were considered to have the best draft out of anybody last year you know guys like Mez, Fraizer, Lotzkar, Soto, Waring, Oliveras, etc. and then Stubbs, Valaika, Roenicke, Heisey, etc. two years ago. He is doing just fine

kpresidente
08-15-2008, 04:16 PM
The fans will always take the owners side because the fans only care about winning and couldn't give a hoot about who gets rich off the deal.

If the owner gets the better end of the deal, that means the team has more money to spend elsewhere, meaning a better team overall.

If the player gets the better end of the deal, the opposite is true, it's hurts the overall team make-up.

But owners don't get off the hook completely. If the fans believe the owner is only interested in pocketing a profit at the expense of winning, fans will be far more vicious than they would to a player doing the same thing. Reason is a player's "profit" is directly tied to his production. The same is not always true for the owners because a huge payroll can create a financial loss even while still putting Ws in the boxscores.

LouisvilleCARDS
08-15-2008, 04:33 PM
Negotiation 101 is never, never, negotiate against yourself. If the other side will not come off its initial proposal, you walk away. Alonso's demand exceeds what other draft picks are getting and is so far above his slot # that it's laughable.


If thats the case, then Alonso would be "negotiating against himself" if he came off his $7 mil right? Seems like a catch 22, like a game of chicken and both sides aren't supposed to budge. If thats the case, nothing would ever get done.

lollipopcurve
08-15-2008, 04:34 PM
Reportedly, Matusz has signed for 3.2 plus a major league deal. That leaves the 3 big college bats -- Alvarez, Posey and Alonso, and the high schooler Hosmer. My guess is that the deal for Matusz will be ignored by Alonso's team, as they wait on Posey/Alvarez. A SF writer wrote that there's competition between the agents for Alvarez and Posey to get the biggest deal. Sounds to me like the sooner those chips fall, the sooner the Reds and Genske can get the rubber on the road. If the Alvarez/Posey contracts wait till the last second to be announced, the Reds deal may come down to a game of chicken, and if no one blinks the deal dies. Just a guess....

Hoosier Red
08-15-2008, 04:39 PM
Reportedly, Matusz has signed for 3.2 plus a major league deal. That leaves the 3 big college bats -- Alvarez, Posey and Alonso, and the high schooler Hosmer. My guess is that the deal for Matusz will be ignored by Alonso's team, as they wait on Posey/Alvarez. A SF writer wrote that there's competition between the agents for Alvarez and Posey to get the biggest deal. Sounds to me like the sooner those chips fall, the sooner the Reds and Genske can get the rubber on the road. If the Alvarez/Posey contracts wait till the last second to be announced, the Reds deal may come down to a game of chicken, and if no one blinks the deal dies. Just a guess....

I thought Posey had already signed for 7.5 Mill.

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 04:43 PM
On a separate note, if this deal doesn't get done (and even if it does), will this be the end of Chris Buckley as scouting director?

Buckley hasn't exactly been dead-eye on the talent front and now he's reached to take a 1B who's been a hard signing. I doubt Walt Jocketty is impressed.

I would totally s-can Buckley after a choke-job like this. And 2007 is WAY overrated.

Though I suspect Jocketty signed off on this deal and knew his demands. I'm not sure how well Jocketty will be able to palm off complete responsibility on Buckley.

Regardless, it's yet another massive black eye to an already beleaguered organization.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 04:48 PM
I didn't mean to post the lineup too, but oh well. :O) VERY small Alonso update.


Lineup vs. Cardinals

Chris Dickerson lf

Jerry Hairston ss

Jay Bruce rf

Brandon Phillips 2b

Javy Valentin 1b

Edwin Encarnacion 3b

Corey Patterson cf

Ryan Hanigan c

Bronson Arroyo p

v. rh Brad Thompson

Dusty Baker, who shares agents with Yonder Alonso, spoke with Alonso by phone. "He talked briefly -- most of this is out of my hands," Baker said. the Reds are prepared to fly Alonso in. He and his agent did not return calls today.


All per Fay

lollipopcurve
08-15-2008, 04:50 PM
I thought Posey had already signed for 7.5 Mill.

Yeah, it's out there, if not official. So if the teams were to split the difference between the bonuses for college hitters on either side of Alonso -- 7.5 for Posey and 2.6 for Beckham, the deal would be about 5 mill. Then they'd have to haggle over whether it was a major league or a minor league deal.

They've got a ways to go.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 04:54 PM
Dusty Baker, who shares agents with Yonder Alonso, spoke with Alonso by phone. "He talked briefly -- most of this is out of my hands," Baker said. the Reds are prepared to fly Alonso in. He and his agent did not return calls today.
I am starting to feel better about this and that we will get him signed. and not returning calls says Alonso is hunkered down trying to get a deal done

Chip R
08-15-2008, 04:57 PM
In a sense, he is property of the Reds, for at least a few more hours, and a person with another MLB organization is offering him an inducement to not sign with the Reds. Hypothetically, what if Leatherpants was his pal, and he said, you can come crash with me and play a semipro team near my groovy leatherpants pad? Is the difference, one is management and one just a player?

He's as much property of the Reds as Jeremy Sowers is or some kid they are thinking about drafting next year or the year after that. He hasn't signed anything with the Reds yet so he doesn't belong to them. I'm not sure how much of an inducement being A-Rod's bobo is. Is he going to share Madonna with him or something?

I'd say your hypothetical with JimBo would probably be legal. Creepy, but legal. But it's not the same thing as living with A-Rod.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 04:59 PM
I would totally s-can Buckley after a choke-job like this. And 2007 is WAY overrated.


Based on what? It must be all those players having success that makes it overrated.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 05:01 PM
Based on what? It must be all those players having success that makes it overrated.
come on OBM you know that all plays in the reds system, overachieve and acctually aren't good talents what-so-ever(regardless of us having one of the highest rated farm systems, and also considered by many as the deepest)

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 05:14 PM
I would totally s-can Buckley after a choke-job like this.

Wow, talk about overreacting. :O) Buckley's done a very good job overall. In fact, just looking at the Alonso pick...if he botched that one (which I don't think he did), then who should he have gone with? Crow? Smoak? Beckham? Of those 3 only Beckham has signed. I'd say that regardless of what the players were asking for, Buckley went with the best available player...and then left it up to Cast & crew to sign the guy. That's far from a poor strategy.

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 05:20 PM
Wow, talk about overreacting. :O) Buckley's done a very good job overall. In fact, just looking at the Alonso pick...if he botched that one (which I don't think he did), then who should he have gone with? Crow? Smoak? Beckham? Of those 3 only Beckham has signed. I'd say that regardless of what the players were asking for, Buckley went with the best available player...and then left it up to Cast & crew to sign the guy. That's far from a poor strategy.

As I said, responsibility for this goes up and down the scale. But Buckley's not turned up any killers on the pitching side of things.

RedEye
08-15-2008, 05:24 PM
As I said, responsibility for this goes up and down the scale. But Buckley's not turned up any killers on the pitching side of things.

To me, it seems that Buckley's two drafts have been much better in terms of depth than previous scouting directors' results. Sure, Stubbs and Mesoraco haven't set the world on fire yet, but you've got to like a lot of the later picks that have filled out our top-20 prospect list (Frazier, Dorn, Soto, etc.)

Falls City Beer
08-15-2008, 05:32 PM
To me, it seems that Buckley's two drafts have been much better in terms of depth than previous scouting directors' results. Sure, Stubbs and Mesoraco haven't set the world on fire yet, but you've got to like a lot of the later picks that have filled out our top-20 prospect list (Frazier, Dorn, Soto, etc.)

Frazier's been by far the best of the bunch, but even he seems more like Joey Votto than Jay Bruce.

edabbs44
08-15-2008, 05:32 PM
As I said, responsibility for this goes up and down the scale. But Buckley's not turned up any killers on the pitching side of things.

He hasn't really targeted pitching early in the drafts, where you will typically find those killers. He's passed on a bunch of potential studs.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 05:34 PM
Frazier's been by far the best of the bunch, but even he seems more like Joey Votto than Jay Bruce.
and what's wrong with Joey Votto?...Jay Bruce was a top 15 pick by the way...Fraizer and Votto weren't

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 05:37 PM
Frazier's been by far the best of the bunch, but even he seems more like Joey Votto than Jay Bruce.

Frazier looks like a young Kevin Youkilis to me. Great eye at the plate and 25-30 homerun power. Also, keep an eye on Neftali Soto who is looking like a major stud. The power he is showing at only 19 years old is very impressive. Kyle Lotzkar and Jeremy Horst are also looking great, with Lotzkar having TOR potential.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 05:37 PM
* Oh yeah, Dusty Baker said he'd talked to Yonder Alonso yesterday, just called him.

* One of my peeps e-mailed and said the Yonder Alonso talks are looking "very BAD right now"

Each minute with a deal, that 50/50 number that Jocketty put out there seems to go down.

From C-Trent's blog

GoReds33
08-15-2008, 05:41 PM
From C-Trent's blogThat's not good news. Hopefully the Reds don't flinch and give him what he wants. Take it to the last minute if nessecary, but don't give him anything near his asking price. If we have the seventh pick again next year, so be it.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 05:43 PM
Well, I haven't seen any confirmation on that 7 million deal for Posey. Every deal I've seen has been VERY close to slot. I doubt that the Reds would go anywhere close to that high. But then again, I think Alonso will sign for much cheaper than he's asking for...just holding off to the last minute to try to increase it. I'm sure he knows the risk of not signing just as well as the Reds do.

I saw this link...http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080814&content_id=3308332&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb...but I don't see that as confirmation...just rumors.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 05:44 PM
I wonder if the reds would go at about 60% of asking price which would be 4.2mil, maybe up it to 4.5 with the ML contract and say take it or leave it

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 05:46 PM
Posey not a Giant ... yet

There were early reports by the San Jose Mercury News that Buster Posey and the Giants had all but officially agreed on a Major League deal worth $7.5 million. Not so, say the Giants. At least, not yet. "Stories reporting that we have signed Buster Posey are inaccurate. Negotiations are ongoing," said Bobby Evans, Giants director of player personnel.

http://draft.mlblogs.com/

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 05:52 PM
That's kinda what I figured. If you take that "deal" out of the equation...then Alonso has no legs to stand on in regards to his dollar demands. Sure, he's still got the "going back to school" card to play, but that comes with it's inherant risks to say the least.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 05:56 PM
As reported earlier today, No. 4 overall pick Brian Matusz signed a major league deal with the Orioles. The deal, which runs from 2009-13, includes a $3.2 million bonus and $2.825 million in big league salaries. However, the contract apparently contains a split salary structures that would provide Matusz with minimal minor league salaries should he not be on the active big league roster.

MLB values the total guaranteed money in the contract at $3,472,500—or just $272,500 above the bonus amount. MLB views the net present value of the deal as $3,264,408. ~from baseballamerica.com (free content)

Matusz was the 4th pick overall....I just don't see any chance that Alonso pulls in over 4 million. None.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 06:06 PM
The way Matusz's contract seems to be structured is sort of what the Cards did with Drew's way back when. I wouldn't be adverse to the Reds coming up with such a solution.

Caveat Emperor
08-15-2008, 06:08 PM
This is the point in the negotiations where you make your best offer and walk away from the table. If he thinks he can do better, more power to him.

It's put up or shut up time for Alonso -- his choice now.

_Sir_Charles_
08-15-2008, 06:10 PM
Yeah, I agree. I have no problem with them putting him on the 40-man...just keep the dollar amount in the realm of reality. I mean look at our current 40-man roster. There's quite a bit of fodder on there already. What's one more unproven talent?

TheBigLebowski
08-15-2008, 06:14 PM
I had a bad feeling about this guy from the beginning.

kaldaniels
08-15-2008, 06:16 PM
Just my prediction...Alonso will cave and accept a reasonable deal late tonight...this will all be water under the bridge.

muethibp
08-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Forgive me, when is the deadline?

LouisvilleCARDS
08-15-2008, 06:21 PM
I hate drama like this, why can't players just sign and not nitpick over every little thing? I wish there were more incentive contracts. Do well, you get paid. Do crappy, you don't get as much. This simple concept is how about 99% of the rest of the population works, but baseball players are "above" it.

GoReds33
08-15-2008, 06:22 PM
Forgive me, when is the deadline?Midnight I believe.

juvey21
08-15-2008, 06:23 PM
I hate drama like this, why can't players just sign and not nitpick over every little thing? I wish there were more incentive contracts. Do well, you get paid. Do crappy, you don't get as much. This simple concept is how about 99% of the rest of the population works, but baseball players are "above" it.

I think that goes for athletes in general.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 06:29 PM
from reds.com

CINCINNATI -- The Reds made their final pitch to Yonder Alonso on Friday. Now they'll wait for their first-round Draft pick's final answer. There were only a few hours remaining Friday until a midnight ET deadline for teams to sign their 2008 Draft picks. As afternoon wound towards evening, the two sides did not appear close to reaching a deal.
"We've presented our final offer," Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said. "We're waiting to see how they respond."
"We're working really hard, but as of now we're a good ways apart," Reds scouting director Chris Buckley said earlier in the day. "It's frustrating, for sure."
Jocketty was on the field visiting with members of his old team, the Cardinals, during batting practice before the two teams played on Friday night. He was satisfied the Reds went as far as they could to get Alonso to sign.
"We said we've gone as far as we want to go," Jocketty said. "We've already gone substantially farther than we planned to because we like the player and thought he would play in the big leagues within the next couple of years."
On Thursday, Reds manager Dusty Baker got involved in the process. Baker's agent, Greg Genske, is Alonso's advisor and negotiating point man.
"I called him yesterday, and he called me back and we talked briefly," Baker said. "I'm hoping we get it done. Most of that is out of my hands."
Baker declined to detail the conversation he had with Alonso, a 22-year-old first baseman out of the University of Miami. Alonso was the No. 7 overall pick in the 2008 First-Year Player Draft.
Alonso has been seeking $7 million, and although the Reds haven't detailed their offer, it originally was reported to be in the $3 million range that was in line with the slot system.
Genske has not returned phone calls for comment.
Teams that don't sign their Draft picks before the deadline lose their rights and the players go back into the pool for next year. Alonso could return for his senior season at Miami or play independent ball if he doesn't sign. The Reds would get the No. 8 overall selection next season as compensation if they don't sign Alonso.
The Reds inked two other Draft picks on Friday, with 30th-round selection Juan Sulbaran and 35th rounder Matthew Fairel agreeing to deals. Both are pitchers.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 06:35 PM
Looks like he won't sign. Great job by Jocketty and Buckley. :rolleyes:

RedsManRick
08-15-2008, 06:39 PM
I hate drama like this, why can't players just sign and not nitpick over every little thing? I wish there were more incentive contracts. Do well, you get paid. Do crappy, you don't get as much. This simple concept is how about 99% of the rest of the population works, but baseball players are "above" it.

When you don't yet have the millions of dollars, I imagine you hold out for every last one. What might be a few tenths on a message board to us is $100,000s in the pocket of a guy who might not see another professional contract.

When I negotiated my salary with my current employer, I put a number out there and pushed it to the deadline. It's just business. The fact that the numbers are big and the vocation is a game doesn't change the rules.

Until something is definitive, I'm not going to waste my time speculating.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Yonder comes off his demands

From Fay

Walt Jocketty says it's up to Yonder Alonso.
"We've made a final offer," Jocketty said. "We're waiting to hear from him. We'd love to have him. That's why we drafted him."
Jocketty said Alonso, the Reds' top pick in draft, came off his original demand "by a little bit" for the first time.
Jocketty would not say if the offer was a major league contract.
The deadline to sign is 11:59 p.m.
Alex Rodriguez is very much a factor in this thing. Rodriguez is close to Alonso and has offered to left him live with ARod in New York and play independent league baseball next year.
Alonso and his representative have not returned calls today.

NorrisHopper30
08-15-2008, 06:43 PM
I will give props to the organization for not going too far above slot just to sign a guy, but why did we draft him if we weren't 100% sure we would sign him? At the time Buckley sounded 110% sure in his interviews that they would sign Alonso even though it had been publicly announced that Alonso was looking for a large amount of money.

Why doesn't A-rod just give him the extra 4million to get him to his 7million mark, it's not like he has any money problems...and he doesn't have a wife to spend money on either now.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 06:44 PM
alright some movement from Yonder's side. at least he is showing a willingness to come here and not saying my way or the high way.

Somehow I don't think the reds are done making offers, especially if he starts coming down.

kaldaniels
08-15-2008, 06:50 PM
alright some movement from Yonder's side. at least he is showing a willingness to come here and not saying my way or the high way.

Somehow I don't think the reds are done making offers, especially if he starts coming down.

I agree...I'd be almost certain the Reds have not made their final offer...this is simply posturing to hopefully pinch a penny or two.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 06:57 PM
Five hours until the deadline.

mbgrayson
08-15-2008, 07:05 PM
I like the idea of splitting the money they give him into different portions. A big chunk as a bonus($3 million), and then the rest contingent upon meeting performance goals.

Like if he is on the 25 man Reds roster in 2010, he gets paid $1.5 million to play that year instead of MLB minimum. That would give him extra money, and give the Reds protection in case he flops. You could get near a $7 million total deal that way, and not have all of it payable right now.

IslandRed
08-15-2008, 07:14 PM
I hate drama like this, why can't players just sign and not nitpick over every little thing? I wish there were more incentive contracts. Do well, you get paid. Do crappy, you don't get as much. This simple concept is how about 99% of the rest of the population works, but baseball players are "above" it.

If you want baseball to work like the real world, start by abolishing the draft and the reserve clause and let ballplayers choose where they want to work and change jobs whenever they like as long as they're not under contract.

As for incentive pay, there are lots of double-edged swords in baseball. It sounds good on the surface but the teams probably wouldn't care for it. If you're signing the checks, a payroll of "maybe $50 million, maybe $125 million, it depends" isn't going to sit very well. The only thing worse than a team that won't spend to compete would be a team that couldn't afford to win. :laugh:

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 07:50 PM
alright some movement from Yonder's side. at least he is showing a willingness to come here and not saying my way or the high way.

Somehow I don't think the reds are done making offers, especially if he starts coming down.

There's no way the Reds have made their final offer just as Alonso hasn't gone down as low as he may. It's all negotiating at this point. We'll see if there is a happy medium.

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 08:00 PM
4 hours... and the clock keeps ticking.

Kingspoint
08-15-2008, 08:16 PM
4 hours... and the clock keeps ticking.

and 2 minutes ago Minorleaguebaseball.com still shows 6 of the top 11 unsigned.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Does it feel like you're back in high school waiting for the phone to ring?

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 08:56 PM
3 hours...

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 09:04 PM
Three hours. They're not going to sign him.

kaldaniels
08-15-2008, 09:06 PM
and 2 minutes ago Minorleaguebaseball.com still shows 6 of the top 11 unsigned.

It's called hardball.

Tommyjohn25
08-15-2008, 09:07 PM
Three hours. They're not going to sign him.

My gut is telling me that it gets done in the 11th hour. No inside info or anything, just a gut.....it may even be gas. :dunno:

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 09:10 PM
My gut is telling me that it gets done in the 11th hour. No inside info or anything, just a gut.....it may even be gas. :dunno:
try some beano:thumbup:

Tommyjohn25
08-15-2008, 09:12 PM
try some beano:thumbup:

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 09:46 PM
I'm not worried about it.

There are still 5 other players in the top 10 who haven't been signed yet either.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-15-2008, 09:47 PM
Why do the Reds need Yonder Alonso? They have FOUR HITS tonight guys!

Geesh ... if this isn't rock bottom for this organization, I don't know what could be.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 09:49 PM
Why do the Reds need Yonder Alonso? They have FOUR HITS tonight guys!

Geesh ... if this isn't rock bottom for this organization, I don't know what could be.
to be fair they are missing their 1b who was hitting .368 over his last 10 games before he went on the bereavement list, and Votto hitting in front of Bruce seemed to help Bruce out some.

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 09:55 PM
2 hours and still no news

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 09:56 PM
I've already accepted the fact that Alonso isn't going to sign. Jocketty gets a big ole F.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 09:57 PM
2 hours and still no news
on anyone....
I am so tired, but I don't want to miss a thing:rolleyes:

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-15-2008, 09:57 PM
Chris Welsh: "Another anemic night offensively for the Reds."

Nice.

Might want to sign some offense Walt

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 10:16 PM
I've already accepted the fact that Alonso isn't going to sign. Jocketty gets a big ole F.

Judging a draft solely on one player, even the top pick, particularly in this year where the agents and management have decided to go to the mat, does not give an "F" if Alonso doesn't sign. It dings the draft, but this has been a spectacular draft elsewhere. It's never only about the #1.

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 10:21 PM
There is still plenty of time.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 10:22 PM
Judging a draft solely on one player, even the top pick, particularly in this year where the agents and management have decided to go to the mat, does not give an "F" if Alonso doesn't sign. It dings the draft, but this has been a spectacular draft elsewhere. It's never only about the #1.

The fact that the Reds didn't have a second round pick makes signing the first round pick even more important. The Reds knew Alonso was asking for the moon and still drafted him despite similar if not better talent still on the board. They may have gotten some interesting players in later rounds but failing to sign the #7 overall pick is very, very disappointing, especially considering the Reds need an impact bat.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 10:36 PM
No. 5 Buster Posey: Still no official deal on the FSU catcher. Not sure on the hold up, but it's causing some other logjams...

No. 7 Yonder Alonso: This one is being held up by the Giants and Posey.

No. 11 Justin Smoak: This might be the next one to become official. Word was a deal between Smoak and the Rangers was imminent, that it would be north of $3 million and would likely include a big-league deal. Rangers said no such deal is forthcoming, but we'll see...

http://draft.mlblogs.com/

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 10:44 PM
The fact that the Reds didn't have a second round pick makes signing the first round pick even more important. The Reds knew Alonso was asking for the moon and still drafted him despite similar if not better talent still on the board. They may have gotten some interesting players in later rounds but failing to sign the #7 overall pick is very, very disappointing, especially considering the Reds need an impact bat.

I had forgotten about no 2nd round pick, but I still don't think it warrants considering this draft an "F". It made sense to draft him. Players have asked for the moon before and settled for less. Again, Alonso risks quite a lot by not signing now. Players have done it, but there is still a risk. I could be wrong, but I think we'll get it done.

Joseph
08-15-2008, 10:46 PM
One of the 'experts' on ESPN Baseball tonight just listed two players in the 1st round he expected to NOT sign. Alonso was NOT one of them.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 10:48 PM
No. 7 Yonder Alonso: This one is being held up by the Giants and Posey.
not at all. Smoak is definitelywaiting on Alonso.

I think Alonso/Smoak are likely waiting on each other.

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 10:50 PM
One of the 'experts' on ESPN Baseball tonight just listed two players in the 1st round he expected to NOT sign. Alonso was NOT one of them.That is very good news. Closing in on one hour.

kaldaniels
08-15-2008, 10:50 PM
I've already accepted the fact that Alonso isn't going to sign. Jocketty gets a big ole F.

Patience my friend. This is the process. Unfortunately it is tough on the nerves.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 10:51 PM
One of the 'experts' on ESPN Baseball tonight just listed two players in the 1st round he expected to NOT sign. Alonso was NOT one of them.
Josh Fields and Cole thus far are confirmed, Fields is a Senior so has till 1 week before the last week before the next draft to sign and Cole is going to college.

But they could be talking about Crow, who is having troubles with Jim Bow
I think Alvaraz will ink Pirates are supposdly offering a ceiling of 8mil, he's asking 10, don't see how you could pass over 8 though.

Also its pretty much a consensus Dykstra won't

flyer85
08-15-2008, 10:51 PM
One of the 'experts' on ESPN Baseball tonight just listed two players in the 1st round he expected to NOT sign. Alonso was NOT one of them.there is too muck risk not to sign for anyone other than Cole

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 10:55 PM
The latest news on this one is that there's a deal basically in place, but it won't be officially announced until midnight ET. Rumor I've heard is that it'll be something like $6.75 million and a big-league deal.

Could that free things up for the college bats behind Posey to get done? Perhaps. Buzz was that Yonder Alonso had come down from his early high demands in recent hours and even if the previously reported Smoak rumor isn't wholly accurate, if Alonso gets done, then Smoak will as well.

The main issue is that the Alonso and perhaps the Smoak camps were looking for money similar to what Posey was getting. But as first basemen, do they have a leg to stand on? Posey plays a premium position, Alonso and Smoak do not, and you can bet the Reds and Rangers will point that out as they continue to try to hammer it out.

http://draft.mlblogs.com/


I'm calling 4.5 mil with incentives

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 10:57 PM
MLB really needs to get this mess in order. I really don't know what the solution is that is equitable to both sides, but this is a game that is just going to continue on as long as there is this honor slot system. It's going to get challenged at some point or will be an issue down the line in collective bargaining. Last year, 11 players first rounders signed on the final day. We'll see what the score is this year.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 10:57 PM
1 hour...I say this will get done.

11larkin11
08-15-2008, 10:58 PM
And it officially comes down to what many predicted, the 11th hour...

Az. Reds Fan
08-15-2008, 11:02 PM
The latest news on this one is that there's a deal basically in place, but it won't be officially announced until midnight ET. Rumor I've heard is that it'll be something like $6.75 million and a big-league deal.

Could that free things up for the college bats behind Posey to get done? Perhaps. Buzz was that Yonder Alonso had come down from his early high demands in recent hours and even if the previously reported Smoak rumor isn't wholly accurate, if Alonso gets done, then Smoak will as well.

The main issue is that the Alonso and perhaps the Smoak camps were looking for money similar to what Posey was getting. But as first basemen, do they have a leg to stand on? Posey plays a premium position, Alonso and Smoak do not, and you can bet the Reds and Rangers will point that out as they continue to try to hammer it out.

http://draft.mlblogs.com/


I'm calling 4.5 mil with incentives

Who's deal is basically in place? Alonso or Posey?

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 11:03 PM
Who's deal is basically in place? Alonso or Posey?
Posey

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:03 PM
Who's deal is basically in place? Alonso or Posey?
Posey and supposdly Smoak is close

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:03 PM
MLB really needs to get this mess in order. it's only a mess if 4-5 don't get signed ... time is not up yet

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 11:04 PM
The gang at Redszone, standing by waiting for the call

http://www.phpblogmanager.com/files/229/206/duprayfamilyw396ivw316.jpg

RedLegSuperStar
08-15-2008, 11:05 PM
It has to get done you have to think... The Reds will have 2 top ten picks next year if they don't get the deal done and that could cost near 20 million with the price tags these players are demanding...

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 11:05 PM
it's only a mess if 4-5 don't get signed ... time is not up yet

I understand what you're saying, but this is the second year under this new system and once again, about a third of the first round picks are still unsigned and have lost most, if not all, of there 1st season. That's the mess I'm referring to.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-15-2008, 11:05 PM
Honestly ... is this going down to 11:59? And if we don't hear anything by then, what's the lag time until we know it officially didn't get done?

LoganBuck
08-15-2008, 11:07 PM
It has to get done you have to think... The Reds will have 2 top ten picks next year if they don't get the deal done and that could cost near 20 million with the price tags these players are demanding...

Nope, If that happens they will get predraft deals in place for slot, and we get to enjoy watching top prospects on other teams.

redsmetz
08-15-2008, 11:07 PM
Honestly ... is this going down to 11:59? And if we don't hear anything by then, what's the lag time until we know it officially didn't get done?

Well, I'm going up to bed. I'll find out in the morning. Night all.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:09 PM
I understand what you're saying, but this is the second year under this new system and once again, about a third of the first round picks are still unsigned and have lost most, if not all, of there 1st season. That's the mess I'm referring to.they lost two months ... Boras held a number of guys out an entire year before signing under the old system.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:09 PM
from Fay:

The Reds are still waiting for a call from Yonder Alonso.
I think there's a slight chance. It happens. We'll know in 63 minutes either way.
--------------


Seems he is playing the waiting game till the others ink, as all reports have indicated

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 11:11 PM
It's pretty stupid if you ask me.

I understand wanting to get as much money as possible, but why let your fate be determined by someone else's (or what they sign for)? I'd worry about myself, but that's just me.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:13 PM
its sounds like he intends to sign. He would have call them back if it was no go. He is basing everything on Posey and Smoak, and if it gets too late, He'll probably ask for a little over what the Reds are offering, and they'll get it done.

Reds/Flyers Fan
08-15-2008, 11:15 PM
Sign him and put him in the freakin' lineup tomorrow night. I can't take much more of the bilge on the field we saw tonight

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 11:28 PM
30 minutes

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:28 PM
IMHO its as much the agents playing chicken with each other as it is the teams/agents doing it. Every agent is waiting to one up the other guy.

Blue
08-15-2008, 11:30 PM
He signed!

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:31 PM
The Reds have signed No. 7 overall pick Yonder Alonso. The terms have yet to be announced
per BA

AccordinglyReds
08-15-2008, 11:31 PM
I just hope the Reds didn't cave in.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:32 PM
I just hope the Reds didn't cave in.
ain't your money.....but they woudln't go crazy

Az. Reds Fan
08-15-2008, 11:32 PM
All this waiting aroung 'til midnight (actually 9 pm, my time) reminds me of the old trade deadline. I actually liked the midnight deadline better. It just seemed cool staying up late to see what would happen.

Now let's sign Alonso

Edit: That was quick!

Buckeye33
08-15-2008, 11:32 PM
It's good they signed him but it will be interesting to see how much they signed him for and if it's a ML deal.

I'd be OK with a 4-4.5 bonus IF it is a minor league deal. If it's a major league deal I think 3.5-4 would be fair.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:32 PM
Alrigth Predictions?

5.2 (even though I said 4.5 before)

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:33 PM
It's good they signed him but it will be interesting to see how much they signed him for and if it's a ML deal.

I'd be OK with a 4-4.5 bonus IF it is a minor league deal. If it's a major league deal I think 3.5-4 would be fair.
it'll be a ML deal, they already said they would be fine with that, though perfered a minor league deal...O well

sonny
08-15-2008, 11:34 PM
4.3 with a ML deal- but thats just my guess.

I can exhale at least.

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm going to guess $4.3

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:34 PM
nvm delete

Blue
08-15-2008, 11:34 PM
Alrigth Predictions?

5.2 (even though I said 4.5 before)

A brazilian.

Jefferson24
08-15-2008, 11:34 PM
4.25 m

Grande Donkey
08-15-2008, 11:35 PM
5.4 million and ML contract

mbgrayson
08-15-2008, 11:37 PM
Baseball America says:
Reds Sign Alonso

Posted Aug. 15, 2008 10:30 pm by Jim Callis
Filed under: Signings

The Reds have signed No. 7 overall pick Yonder Alonso. It’s believed to be a major league deal, but the terms have yet to be announced.

AccordinglyReds
08-15-2008, 11:37 PM
ain't your money.....but they woudln't go crazy

No, but it is money that most likely would go towards other expenditures. Also, the fact that a non-premium position player would ask that much beyond the slot gave me ill feelings toward him.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:38 PM
No, but it is money that most likely would go towards other expenditures. Also, the fact that a non-premium position player would ask that much beyond the slot gave me ill feelings toward him.
its all in a budget that has been set aside

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:40 PM
much ado about nothing

my guess is 3.5

fewfirstchoice
08-15-2008, 11:41 PM
4.6 mil. and a Major League contract

highheat11
08-15-2008, 11:43 PM
4.6 mil. and a Major League contract

Is this a prediction or what he really got?

LoganBuck
08-15-2008, 11:43 PM
No Parker.
Bigfoot was a bust.
Who knows on Yorman
But I am stoked that Alonso is a Red.

Billy_Bearcat
08-15-2008, 11:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if they sign him for exponentially more than what was predicted/slotted then won't all future first rounders expect/demand the same increase?

BigRed07
08-15-2008, 11:45 PM
4.5 mil and a big league contract.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:46 PM
we finally have a top teir first round offensive talent in the farm again, since Bruce

Doc. Scott
08-15-2008, 11:47 PM
.247/.380/.520 mil

Tommyjohn25
08-15-2008, 11:47 PM
My gut is telling me that it gets done in the 11th hour. No inside info or anything, just a gut.....it may even be gas. :dunno:

Well....I nailed it (pats self on the back). Good to know it wasn't gas.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:50 PM
I called it


It is indeed a Major League deal and it's for $4.5 million. from Mayo

JayBruceFan
08-15-2008, 11:51 PM
NVM

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 11:52 PM
$4.5 is a little high and I don't like the ML deal, but I guess in the end, I'm glad it got done and it wasn't super outrageous.

OnBaseMachine
08-15-2008, 11:53 PM
Nice.

Billy_Bearcat
08-15-2008, 11:54 PM
$4.5 is a little high and I don't like the ML deal, but I guess in the end, I'm glad it got done and it wasn't super outrageous.

I'm assuming this will be the starting point now for all future contracts.

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:55 PM
if he's not on the fast track ... and he had better be, then the major league is no big deal.

BigRed07
08-15-2008, 11:55 PM
I'm sticking to 4.5 mil. The next question is who gets bumped off the 40 man to make room?

flyer85
08-15-2008, 11:56 PM
smoak, posey they're rolling in ... what a shock

fearofpopvol1
08-15-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm sticking to 4.5 mil. The next question is who gets bumped off the 40 man to make room?

Take your pick, honestly. There's easily a good 25-30 options that can be replaced.

redhawk61
08-15-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm sticking to 4.5 mil. The next question is who gets bumped off the 40 man to make room?
i belive there already is space

highheat11
08-16-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm sticking to 4.5 mil. The next question is who gets bumped off the 40 man to make room?

Please let it be Patterson that gets the bump... Although I'm sure that wouldn't happen.

highheat11
08-16-2008, 12:02 AM
i belive there already is space

Yeah it looks like there's only 39 on there right now.

Degenerate39
08-16-2008, 12:07 AM
Well....I nailed it (pats self on the back). Good to know it wasn't gas.

Were all thankful for that

redhawk61
08-16-2008, 12:09 AM
CINCINNATI - The Cincinnati Reds tonight announced they have signed to a Major League contract 2008 first-round draft pick Yonder Alonso. He will report to the club's spring training facility in Sarasota.
The junior first baseman from the University of Miami was selected with the seventh pick overall in Major League Baseball’s first-year player draft. Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed.

"Both sides are happy we could come to an agreement," said Reds Senior Director of Scouting Chris Buckley. "Yonder is a polished college player and an advanced hitter who performed at the highest level. He's one of the top players ever to come out of Miami, which has produced a lot of baseball talent."

Buckley added, "We did our homework when we drafted him. Some of our baseball people were very close to his family. We believe we made the right choice when we selected him, and we hope he has a long career as a Cincinnati Red."

During the regular season Alonso hit .373 with 15 HR, 51 RBI and 8 stolen bases for the Hurricanes and was ranked by Baseball America as one of the best prospects in the country.

As a freshman at UM he led the club into the College World Series with a team-best 69 RBI. The next season he hit .376 and led the Atlantic Coast Conference with 18 HR while recording 74 RBI and 57 runs scored. That sophomore year he also ranked second in the ACC with a .519 on-base percentage an .705 slugging percentage.

The native of Cuba was drafted out of Coral Gables (FL) High School by the Twins in 2005

mbgrayson
08-16-2008, 12:12 AM
Alonso Terms

Baseball America:
Posted Aug. 15, 2008 11:12 pm by John Manuel
Filed under: Signings

The Reds did get Yonder Alonso done, and it’s a major league contract as reported earlier. Terms: $2 million bonus, $4.55 million guarantee on the MLB contract.

corkedbat
08-16-2008, 12:22 AM
Alonso, Sulbaran and Fairel make for a very impressive final week and cap off what looks to be a pretty impressive crop - finalizing a deal with Yorman Rodrigues would make it nothing short of amazing.

I will be interesting to see who makes it to the bigs first from this class. I think it will be next and next between Alonso and Stewart, but I'll give the edge to Zach.

corkedbat
08-16-2008, 12:24 AM
Alonso Terms

Baseball America:
Posted Aug. 15, 2008 11:12 pm by John Manuel
Filed under: Signings

The Reds did get Yonder Alonso done, and it’s a major league contract as reported earlier. Terms: $2 million bonus, $4.55 million guarantee on the MLB contract.

If Alonso makes it to the bigs by the trade deadline 2010, that won't be that bad. If they use him in a deal, that will mitigate it some too.

D-Man
08-16-2008, 12:25 AM
USA Today has the AP report. . .

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-08-15-2708179481_x.htm

By Joe Kay, AP Sports Writer
CINCINNATI — First baseman Yonder Alonso from Miami, the seventh overall pick in the amateur draft, agreed to a $4.55 million, five-year contract with the Cincinnati Reds shortly before baseball's midnight deadline on Friday.
Alonso's contract runs through 2012, includes a $2 million signing bonus. Alonso was the second pick from the draft to get a major league deal - Baltimore gave one to pitcher Brian Matusz, the fourth overall pick.

Besides the signing bonus, Alonso gets a $50,000 salary for the rest of this season, $400,000 next year, $500,000 in 2010, $600,000 in 2011 and $1 million in 2012. If he is eligible for salary arbitration after 2011, he can void the 2012 salary.

Alonso also will be invited to the Reds' spring training in 2009 and 2010.

The major league contract was part of Cincinnati's compromise. The Reds have nine players eligible for free agency after the season, so there will be room for Alonso on the 40-man roster.

"We think he'll be ready quickly," assistant general manager Bob Miller said. "And the other issue is we have a lot of free agents. We actually have some room. If it had been a really, really tight roster, it would have been much more difficult."

On the day he was drafted, Alonso said he was eager to get to Cincinnati and meet outfielders Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn, two of his favorites. Both were traded before Alonso signed with the team.

Alonso joins a team that is already developing a core of left-handed hitters. Joey Votto, a 24-year-old rookie, plays first base and bats left-handed, as does rookie outfielder Jay Bruce.

Alonso hits so well that the Reds couldn't pass him up. He led the Atlantic Coast Conference with 18 homers as a sophomore last year, batting .376 with 74 RBIs. As a junior this season, he hit 21 homers, drove in 66 runs and batted .370.

The last time the Reds failed to sign their top draft pick was 2001, when left-hander Jeremy Sowers chose to go to Vanderbilt. Sowers, the 20th overall pick that year, had insisted on $3 million to sign, but the Reds offered less than half that.

Also Friday, the Reds signed 16-year-old Venezuelan outfielder Yorman Rodriguez.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-16-2008, 12:26 AM
Joey Votto. Welcome to LF.

Or another organization.

Degenerate39
08-16-2008, 12:26 AM
If Yorman, Alonso, Juan Duran live up to there names then this team will be pretty amazing in a few years.

C- Devin Mescarasco
1st- Yonder Alonso
2nd- Brandon Phillips
SS- ?
3rd- Joey Votto? He's athletic enough to play 3rd.
LF- Juan Duran
CF- Y. Rod
RF- Jay Bruce

redhawk61
08-16-2008, 12:38 AM
This is a blurb from Fay:
He'll report to Sarasota. He won't play in any games for two or three weeks because he hasn't played in so long.
---------
Who is still playing in 2-3 weeks.....could it be LOU? or a Sept. call up

11larkin11
08-16-2008, 12:43 AM
If Yorman, Alonso, Juan Duran live up to there names then this team will be pretty amazing in a few years.

C- Devin Mescarasco
1st- Yonder Alonso
2nd- Brandon Phillips
SS- ?
3rd- Joey Votto? He's athletic enough to play 3rd.
LF- Juan Duran
CF- Y. Rod
RF- Jay Bruce

Thats still AT LEAST 5 years away. I doubt that all those players are still here but I like what your doing and I tend to do that alot too.

11larkin11
08-16-2008, 12:48 AM
In the comments section of Fay's blog, he said this...

Buckley said they may play him at third as well.

Degenerate39
08-16-2008, 12:49 AM
In the comments section of Fay's blog, he said this...

Buckley said they may play him at third as well.

If Javy can do it then so can Alonso

LoganBuck
08-16-2008, 12:50 AM
In the comments section of Fay's blog, he said this...

Buckley said they may play him at third as well.

At least see what he can do. Ryan Braun was also allegedly a third baseman once.

JaxRed
08-16-2008, 01:06 AM
I bet the deal is he doesn't get added to 40 man roster till after the season

Mario-Rijo
08-16-2008, 01:14 AM
If Yorman, Alonso, Juan Duran live up to there names then this team will be pretty amazing in a few years.

C- Devin Mesoraco
1st- Yonder Alonso
2nd- Brandon Phillips
SS- Chris Valaika*
3rd- Todd Frazier*
LF- Joey Votto*
CF- Drew Stubbs*
RF- Jay Bruce

Let's do it like this just as a more obvious and much sooner roster. With Juan and Yorman the youth on deck. That would be sweet if it panned out that way.

RED VAN HOT
08-16-2008, 01:18 AM
I expect that the deal will be done at 3 Mil and minor league contract or not at all.

I couldn't have been more wrong. What a day! It feels like Festivus in August.