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gobucks106
06-19-2008, 08:50 AM
Any news on him now that Miami has been eliminated from the College World Series? Any chance he could sign soon and report to one of our minor league affiliates?

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 09:16 AM
he apparently wants a decent amount guaranteed..

Ohioballplayer
06-19-2008, 10:52 AM
I thought Walt put that rumor to rest last week???
Saying it was untrue?

HeatherC1212
06-19-2008, 11:14 AM
I thought Walt put that rumor to rest last week???
Saying it was untrue?

He did put that rumor down right around the time of the draft. It will be interesting to see what happens with Yonder though now. I hope we can get him signed for something somewhat reasonable. Dude can flat out hit! I saw him a couple times during the CWS and he's a fantastic hitter and not bad at first base either. He looked good the times I saw him play. :)

Ahhhorsepoo
06-19-2008, 11:55 AM
He did put that rumor down right around the time of the draft. It will be interesting to see what happens with Yonder though now. I hope we can get him signed for something somewhat reasonable. Dude can flat out hit! I saw him a couple times during the CWS and he's a fantastic hitter and not bad at first base either. He looked good the times I saw him play. :)

Him at first.. with Votto in Left makes me very happy..

bgwilly31
06-19-2008, 11:57 AM
He did put that rumor down right around the time of the draft. It will be interesting to see what happens with Yonder though now. I hope we can get him signed for something somewhat reasonable. Dude can flat out hit! I saw him a couple times during the CWS and he's a fantastic hitter and not bad at first base either. He looked good the times I saw him play. :)

The couple AB's i saw on TV a curveball made him look stupid.

Of course that was just a couple AB's

ChatterRed
06-19-2008, 02:52 PM
I hear Alonso wants to take some time off and go up Yonder.

FlyerFanatic
06-19-2008, 02:56 PM
i'm going to laugh when we cant sign this guy

mroby85
06-19-2008, 05:51 PM
i'm going to laugh when we cant sign this guy

you're a great reds fan then.

FlyerFanatic
06-19-2008, 06:15 PM
you're a great reds fan then.

yea...i'm just as bad as everyone else on this board..i guess..i mean how many people are calling for dustys head..each and every day...yet you choose this post to call someone out on? good one. :rolleyes:

ChatterRed
06-20-2008, 02:50 AM
yea...i'm just as bad as everyone else on this board..i guess..i mean how many people are calling for dustys head..each and every day...yet you choose this post to call someone out on? good one. :rolleyes:


U suck. Go jump off a cliff, you anti-Reds fan. :D

runningman
06-20-2008, 03:06 AM
I hear Alonso wants to take some time off and go up Yonder.

Is it his mountain the string band plays on?

TheBigLebowski
06-20-2008, 05:08 PM
We'll get Yonder signed. Let not your heart be troubled.

Still wish we'd have taken Gordon Beckham but Yonder was probably the best, most polished hitter in the draft.

mroby85
06-20-2008, 06:21 PM
yea...i'm just as bad as everyone else on this board..i guess..i mean how many people are calling for dustys head..each and every day...yet you choose this post to call someone out on? good one. :rolleyes:


while i don't agree with everyone ripping dusty, i do see a vast difference in that, and in seeing humor in the reds not being able to sign a high draft pick.

PuffyPig
06-20-2008, 07:47 PM
I thought Walt put that rumor to rest last week???
Saying it was untrue?

Wanting $8M guaranteed.....wanting a decent amount guaranteed.

Apples and oranges.

TDHND
06-21-2008, 10:47 PM
i guess that explains why i didn't see him on a roster yet.sure hope we can get him signed,he's a stud.

OnBaseMachine
06-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Reds scouting director Chirs Buckley said the club has started talks with top pick Yonder Alfonso and the Reds are pursuing the Michael Inoa, the 16-year-old Dominican pitching prospect.

Alfonso, the first baseman from Miami, just returned home after his team was eliminated in the College World Series.

"He's ready to go," Buckley said. "His agent is doing his deal. So much of these contracts are about future recruitment next year. That's what sells players on agents. Scott Boras has done so much to get players deal. other agents use his tactics. Yonder was the seventh pick in the draft. I feel very strongly that we'll sign him. He just got back from the World Series. Rest isn't a bad thing for him right now."

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a984f1168-f8dc-4430-b2c4-dbcf6505d6c3&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

flyer85
06-24-2008, 01:30 PM
sounds to me like this one might end up pushing the deadline.

fearofpopvol1
06-24-2008, 08:57 PM
I don't think it'll take too long. I bet he's signed by the ASB, maybe by July 1.

RedlegJake
06-24-2008, 10:08 PM
I don't think it'll take too long. I bet he's signed by the ASB, maybe by July 1.

I think so too. Yonder doesn't want to completely lose the summer does he. Look at how Hildenbrandt lost his first year. Yonder should be wanting to get going ASAP.

flyer85
06-25-2008, 09:17 AM
this isn't about Alonso ...

from Buckley

"His agent is doing his deal. So much of these contracts are about future recruitment next year. That's what sells players on agents. Scott Boras has done so much to get players deal. other agents use his tactics.

Blitz Dorsey
06-25-2008, 12:03 PM
People really have problems spelling Yonder Alonso correctly (posters, journalists, everyone).

The Reds need to get him signed before the AS break IMO so he can get a good amount of ABs at Sarasota.

bucksfan2
07-03-2008, 09:59 AM
Any news on his contract status? Also when is the last date the Reds can sign him? I can see a slight problem with Alonso since he is a Jr can't he go back to school next season if the Reds don't sign him?

mbgrayson
07-03-2008, 10:06 AM
Any news on his contract status? Also when is the last date the Reds can sign him? I can see a slight problem with Alonso since he is a Jr can't he go back to school next season if the Reds don't sign him?

August 15th is the deadline.

Lockdwn11
07-03-2008, 12:02 PM
The Reds haven't signed top pick Yonder Alfonso yet. I asked Walt Jocketty about it last night.

He's leaving the negotiations to scouting director Chris Buckley. But it sounds like the Reds won't go way out the "bracket" to sign Alonso.

"We really like this guy," Jocketty said. "I think we'll sign him. We know what he think his value is. We'll see what happens."

MLB gives clubs recommendations on what a pick is worth. The pick right before Alonso signed, catcher Kyle Skipworth, signed with Florida for a reported $2.4 million. That was right in line what what MLB recommended. The Reds would likely give Alonso that right now. Alonso has asked for a big league contract -- every top pick does -- but the Reds would like to avoid that. The thought is the log jam will break once one of college junior's breaks.


http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a156de5bb-de67-42f2-a36c-ccc872f871bb&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

OnBaseMachine
07-03-2008, 12:10 PM
I'd like to see him signed before August 1st so he can play at least one month of pro ball this year just to get a feel for how advanced he is and if he's ready to begin in AA next season.

corkedbat
07-03-2008, 02:33 PM
If he signs late, it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds send him to the Fall Instructional League. I guess if he's a Junior and can return to Miami then Boras is technically just "an advisor"? Wonder if he will threaten the Independant League route?

flyer85
07-03-2008, 02:42 PM
If he signs late, it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds send him to the Fall Instructional League. I guess if he's a Junior and can return to Miami then Boras is technically just "an advisor"? Wonder if he will threaten the Independant League route?doesn't really matter, if he doesn't sign by the deadline(in August) then the Reds will get a comp pick next year.

Blitz Dorsey
07-03-2008, 10:54 PM
No need to screw around here. We took this kid No. 7 overall and he's a proven 21-year-old bat. Sign him and don't worry about pinching pennies. Give me the same attitude I see with going after 16-year-old unproven Dominicans and Venezuelans. Aggressive.

Actually, I'm not too worried about it at all. He will sign. I would just prefer if it was right now so he could get as many ABs as possible with wooden bat. He's not completely foreign to it since he played in the Cape Cod summer league, but if the Reds are going to sign him eventually, might as well do it now.

cincyinco
07-04-2008, 12:12 AM
I agree if the reds are willing to shell out 5 million and a ml contract to a 16 year old then I have no reason to believe they will punt the yonder pick.

fearofpopvol1
07-04-2008, 03:03 AM
If he signs late, it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds send him to the Fall Instructional League. I guess if he's a Junior and can return to Miami then Boras is technically just "an advisor"? Wonder if he will threaten the Independant League route?

Boras is not Alonso's agent. It's Greg Ganske.

bucksfan2
07-06-2008, 04:02 PM
No need to screw around here. We took this kid No. 7 overall and he's a proven 21-year-old bat. Sign him and don't worry about pinching pennies. Give me the same attitude I see with going after 16-year-old unproven Dominicans and Venezuelans. Aggressive.

Actually, I'm not too worried about it at all. He will sign. I would just prefer if it was right now so he could get as many ABs as possible with wooden bat. He's not completely foreign to it since he played in the Cape Cod summer league, but if the Reds are going to sign him eventually, might as well do it now.

IMO he is not a proven bat until he picks up a wooden bat and plays against professionals. I think one of the keys to getting him signed is to see where he is and how long you project him to be ready for the bigs.

FlyerFanatic
07-06-2008, 04:36 PM
how long has it been since the pick ahead of him signed? need to make this happen

crazyredfan40
07-06-2008, 05:22 PM
how long has it been since the pick ahead of him signed? need to make this happen

I think it is a matter of other college bats signing...The guy ahead of him was a high school player...

fearofpopvol1
07-07-2008, 04:04 AM
This is definitely taking longer than I thought it would. It almost undoubtebly is a money thing. Hopefully the deal gets done soon.

Nugget
07-07-2008, 01:33 PM
From Fay's blog - according to Jocketty the issue is that Yonder is asking for a major league contract - I don't think they'll be pushing that - signing bonus is one thing but major league contract as all sorts of problems associated with it.

redhawk61
07-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Give it to him, it WILL NOT take him 3 years to get up here and be ready

In my book he could be a mid-season to September call up next year.

corkedbat
07-07-2008, 02:12 PM
Give it to him, it WILL NOT take him 3 years to get up here and be ready

In my book he could be a mid-season to September call up next year.

It MIGHT not take him three years, but injuries alone could slow that time table.

OnBaseMachine
07-07-2008, 02:14 PM
I just hope he signs by August 1st so he play a month of minor league ball and we can get a feel for how close he is to the majors.

fearofpopvol1
07-07-2008, 07:07 PM
I hope they do not give him a major leauge contract. That's a ridiculous request that may cripple the club when they're competing if he's not ready.

I hope they can get the deal done without that request.

Blitz Dorsey
07-07-2008, 09:14 PM
I couldn't care less if he signs a Major League contract or not. Just get him signed! This guy isn't Dane Sardhina. He is going to be in the big leagues and will be there quickly. No need to screw around in the negotiations. Get 'er done!

camisadelgolf
07-08-2008, 05:18 AM
I'm okay with a ML contract as long as it means his signing bonus is much smaller.

redsmetz
07-08-2008, 08:28 AM
I couldn't care less if he signs a Major League contract or not. Just get him signed! This guy isn't Dane Sardhina. He is going to be in the big leagues and will be there quickly. No need to screw around in the negotiations. Get 'er done!

I've tried finding it myself, but can someone lay out what the timetable is for a player signed to a major league contract? I know it truncates the time the player is in the minors and I'd like to see what the possible consequences are for offering the guy a ML contract.

I know one consequence is that it eats up a 40 man slot when we wouldn't otherwise have to. I'm guessing the timetable is something like three or four years; and in this case, it may not be a bad risk (the 40 man slot being a larger factor than the development time).

puca
07-08-2008, 08:38 AM
Signing Alonso to a ML contract would mean 1 less spot on the 40-man roster this winter.

camisadelgolf
07-08-2008, 08:45 AM
I've tried finding it myself, but can someone lay out what the timetable is for a player signed to a major league contract? I know it truncates the time the player is in the minors and I'd like to see what the possible consequences are for offering the guy a ML contract.

I know one consequence is that it eats up a 40 man slot when we wouldn't otherwise have to. I'm guessing the timetable is something like three or four years; and in this case, it may not be a bad risk (the 40 man slot being a larger factor than the development time).

It's pretty complicated. All players start with three options years.

Let's say Yonder Alonso signs a contract on August 15th, but the Reds call on him as a September call-up on September 1st. That means he was optioned to the minors for less than 20 days, and an option year was not used (regardless of whether he played or not). But if he is optioned to the minors for 20 days or more, then an option years is used, and he would then have only two option years left.

If after his three options years, he still does not have five full years as a pro (one year as a pro equals 90 days on an active pro roster), he qualifies for a fourth option year.

In other words, if the Reds get creative, Alonso would not use an option year in 2008, and for 2009-2012, he could spend each year in the minors, which would mean that he would have to be ready for the Major Leagues in 2013. Like I said, I don't have a problem with Alonso having a major league contract (which would result in him earning slightly more money, since he would be on the 40-man roster) as long as the Reds get a discount on the signing bonus.

bucksfan2
07-08-2008, 09:14 AM
How much leverage does Alonso have? If he goes back to college, and improves, does he raise his draft position at all? He is not a pitcher, SS, best all around college player, CF, etc. I am wondering if the Reds are in the better bargaining position than Alonso.

flyer85
07-08-2008, 09:24 AM
I would certainly hope that the Reds knew his negotiating stance before drafting him. I had heard he wanted a major league deal, if the Reds have a problem with that they shouldn't have drafted him.

redsmetz
07-08-2008, 09:51 AM
I would certainly hope that the Reds knew his negotiating stance before drafting him. I had heard he wanted a major league deal, if the Reds have a problem with that they shouldn't have drafted him.

I suspect they were aware of it. If I rememeber correctly, we had a roster spot open by the draft, presumably for this purpose. Aside from eating a 40 man slot, it's doable. I'm not terribly worried about the time it's taking.

I just found this page and I have no idea how up to date it is, but so far only two players ahead of Alonso have signed, both high school players. I'm guessing everyone's taking it slowly with the new rules about signing dates. Didn't Brackman do this last year, finally signing a ML conract with the Yankees?

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/2008/bonuses/signing_bonuses_08.aspx

KoryMac5
07-08-2008, 11:17 AM
How much leverage does Alonso have? If he goes back to college, and improves, does he raise his draft position at all? He is not a pitcher, SS, best all around college player, CF, etc. I am wondering if the Reds are in the better bargaining position than Alonso.

This is an important point in that if he goes back in he may improve himself by a few slots, if he doesn't do well (injury etc...) than he could fall along ways down the line before someone will pick him. Both sides may have to get creative in order to get this done.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-08-2008, 01:45 PM
I would certainly hope that the Reds knew his negotiating stance before drafting him. I had heard he wanted a major league deal, if the Reds have a problem with that they shouldn't have drafted him.

Not if they intended to punt the pick like they did in 2001.:)

bucksfan2
07-08-2008, 02:25 PM
This is an important point in that if he goes back in he may improve himself by a few slots, if he doesn't do well (injury etc...) than he could fall along ways down the line before someone will pick him. Both sides may have to get creative in order to get this done.

The think I am wondering is how high his ceiling is. Unless there is a weak draft class next season I don't see Alonso going much higher than 7. Even if he hits .400 next season at Miami I don't see a team taking him any higher than 7th. I wonder if this is playing into the Reds negotiations.

REDSEER
07-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Even if Alonso would choose to return to Miami, the Reds, according to the article below, would receive the 8th selection in next year's draft (7-A), giving the Reds close to two top ten picks in one year.

Is Alonso really that much of a can't-miss prospect? Or could we let him go if his demands are too high and get an equal or better prospect next year?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/264176.html


There are no extra selections due to unsigned picks this year, but that could change. To encourage teams to take a harder line on signing bonuses, MLB pushed through a rule change for unsigned picks in the first three rounds, beginning with this draft.

If a team doesn't sign a pick in the first or second round, it gets a pick in essentially the same slot in the next draft. Previously, unsigned first-rounders merited a pick at the end of the supplemental first round. Unsigned picks beyond that drew no compensation. So if the Pirates didn't sign the No. 4 pick this year, they would get a pick just after No. 4 next year (which would be labeled as 4-A).

redhawk61
07-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Even if Alonso would choose to return to Miami, the Reds, according to the article below, would receive the 8th selection in next year's draft (7-A), giving the Reds close to two top ten picks in one year.

Is Alonso really that much of a can't-miss prospect? Or could we let him go if his demands are too high and get an equal or better prospect next year?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/264176.html
Who knows we might even end up with him again the following year, plus he would be in a situation where he would have to sign....Plus w/e pick we get for our record plus the 2 picks for Dunn;) and we could essentially land oursleves 4-5 first rounders(depending on FA to be Griff, with what he gets us). Lots of money to sign those guys, but also lots of talent.

texasdave
07-08-2008, 05:52 PM
One domino falls.....Oakland signs their 1st round pick (Number 12 overall) Jemile Weeks to a minor league contract which includes a 1.91 million dollar bonus. Weeks was a collegiate junior out of the University of Miami. That might help get the ball rolling a bit.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/08/athletics.weeks.ap/index.html

Grande Donkey
07-08-2008, 06:02 PM
Good deal.

11larkin11
07-08-2008, 06:26 PM
With teammates Weeks and Garcia signing, I think it gives the Reds even more leverage. They should definitely have Garcia go and talk to him.

redsmetz
07-08-2008, 09:06 PM
One domino falls.....Oakland signs their 1st round pick (Number 12 overall) Jemile Weeks to a minor league contract which includes a 1.91 million dollar bonus. Weeks was a collegiate junior out of the University of Miami. That might help get the ball rolling a bit.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/08/athletics.weeks.ap/index.html

Well that helps define the margins, if you will. The #6 signed for $2.3M and this $1.91M at #12 - I know it's not hardfast like that, but it gives us something to work with.

Blitz Dorsey
07-08-2008, 10:19 PM
Well that helps define the margins, if you will. The #6 signed for $2.3M and this $1.91M at #12 - I know it's not hardfast like that, but it gives us something to work with.

That data should make the negotiations relatively smooth. Doesn't mean it will, but it should. He's going to get somewhere between $1.91-$2.3 million. I say give him $2.2 mil and be done with it. In fact, he should already be signed IMO. There is no benefit in waiting around in this situation. He's going to sign (so you can forget all the talk about getting pick "7-A" in next year's draft) so they might as well get it done now. Get him as many ABs in Sarasota this year as possible. Then next year hopefully he can come out in his first full year of pro ball and explode (like a LaPorta or someone like that). It often happens with college players drafted that early (not named Drew Stubbs). The good ones are almost ready about a year after they're drafted.

mbgrayson
07-09-2008, 12:25 AM
The think I am wondering is how high his ceiling is. Unless there is a weak draft class next season I don't see Alonso going much higher than 7. Even if he hits .400 next season at Miami I don't see a team taking him any higher than 7th. I wonder if this is playing into the Reds negotiations.


The other thing Alonso has to consider is that if he doesn't sign, he is forever losing one year of his professional career, and that could be millions.

Think of it this way: assume that he is only going to be productive enough to play pro ball, and eventually make a MLB team until he is , say, 36. He has a finite, number of years where he will be good enough to play. If he stays in college one more year, just for the sake of a few hundred thousand, he is a fool. He will never get that 'lost' year back. THe lost year in his MLB career will be worth, at MLB minimum, $400,000 at the 2008 rate. And th lost year will not be a minimum pay year if he is good, and makes it to free agency. He clearly has nothing left to show in college.

Also, he runs the risk of getting hurt. One serious injury could cost him the chance of ever getting the million dollar plus payday.

I predict he will sign.

lollipopcurve
07-09-2008, 08:49 AM
I predict he will sign.

I think you're right, and I like the reasoning.

princeton
07-09-2008, 09:26 AM
The other thing Alonso has to consider is that if he doesn't sign, he is forever losing one year of his professional career, and that could be millions.

the two counterarguments:

if he gets a major league contract in 2009 but not in 2008, it could put him a year or two closer to arbitration and free agency;

if he goes to a different team next year (e.g., one without a young lefty hitting first baseman like Joey Votto), it could also put him a year or two closer to a callup/arbitration/free agency.

to me, it's six of one/half a dozen. I think that he'll sign, but I can see why he thinks that he has good leverage.

lollipopcurve
07-09-2008, 09:38 AM
to me, it's six of one/half a dozen

The possibility of injury/poor or even mediocre performance in his senior season skews the leverage to the Reds.

redsmetz
07-09-2008, 09:41 AM
I've tried finding a list of who the agents are for the various draftees. He's represented by Greg Genske (not Ganske as noted earlier), who also represented Beckham. I wonder who else his agency is representing. By the way, he's also Adam Dunn's agent.

princeton
07-09-2008, 09:51 AM
The possibility of injury/poor or even mediocre performance in his senior season skews the leverage to the Reds.

talented kids don't consider poor/mediocre performance, so that's not even in the equation

if the kid will only play for a major league contract, and the Reds are dead set against it, then he'll re-enter draft. I don't expect it, but it's happened before, even when it made less sense than it does now.

flyer85
07-09-2008, 09:58 AM
He's going to get somewhere between $1.91-$2.3 million.this is not the NFL

OnBaseMachine
07-09-2008, 03:14 PM
Today the Tigers signed their first round pick (21st overall) Ryan Perry to a $1.48 million bonus.

redsmetz
07-09-2008, 03:31 PM
Today the Tigers signed their first round pick (21st overall) Ryan Perry to a $1.48 million bonus.

From the baseballdigest blog I saw this:


Perry said that the Tigers would like him "to be in the big leagues...once the rosters are expanded" on Sept. 1, and that he will start the season in Class A Lakeland this week.

There's one good thing about the MLB slotting system. I love the way all the players start to sign once a few set the market.

http://blog.baseballdigestdaily.com/blog/_archives/2008/7/9/3784557.html

SoTxRedsFan
07-09-2008, 09:05 PM
You guys think Weeks signing has any effect on Yonder? Maybe he sees that he's losing one of his best teammates and would be going back to a weaker team. At least I hope he sees that. SIGN DANG IT!!

redhawk61
07-09-2008, 09:17 PM
You guys think Weeks signing has any effect on Yonder? Maybe he sees that he's losing one of his best teammates and would be going back to a weaker team. At least I hope he sees that. SIGN DANG IT!!
a good chunk of that good team has already signed in Garcia, Weeks, Raben, and Gutierrez

OnBaseMachine
07-10-2008, 01:50 AM
Watching the team

Jerry Walker, Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty's assistant, and scouting director Chris Buckley are in town to assess the Dragons. Buckley said this year's Reds first pick in the draft, first baseman Yonder Alonso, is still a long way from signing.

"He hasn't played for awhile," Buckley said. "If he waits much longer, he won't be able to play this year."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/07/09/ddn071008spinside.html

SoTxRedsFan
07-10-2008, 08:35 AM
In other words, "you better hurry your ass up and sign!"

Spring~Fields
07-10-2008, 08:56 AM
Watching the team

Jerry Walker, Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty's assistant, and scouting director Chris Buckley are in town to assess the Dragons. Buckley said this year's Reds first pick in the draft, first baseman Yonder Alonso, is still a long way from signing.
"He hasn't played for awhile," Buckley said. "If he waits much longer, he won't be able to play this year."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/s/content/oh/story/sports/pro/dragons/2008/07/09/ddn071008spinside.html

OBM,

How much $$$$

OnBaseMachine
07-12-2008, 10:53 AM
ALONSO UPDATE: Reds general manager Walt Jocketty said the team continues to negotiate with first-round pick Yonder Alonso.

"I think he's waiting for some of the picks around him to sign," Jocketty said. "That happens a lot."

None of the top college juniors, like Alonso, has signed yet. The deadline for signing is Aug. 14.

"I'm confident we'll get it done," Jocketty said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080712/SPT04/807120351/1071/SPT04

gedred69
07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
Ahhh, who will blink first!!!

texasdave
07-13-2008, 10:48 AM
Astros signed the number 10 pick - a junior catcher out of Stanford by the name of Castro. According to the Houston Chronicle he received a 2.0 million dollar signing bonus.

redhawk61
07-13-2008, 11:28 AM
who wants to start guessing what he will sign for now that some people aroud him are starting to ink up.

I'll go 2.6mil

Grande Donkey
07-13-2008, 11:33 AM
2.8 mil is my guess.

indy_dave00
07-13-2008, 12:13 PM
I say 3.4 mil and a major league contract.

camisadelgolf
07-13-2008, 12:54 PM
I'll stay with the even number theme: $2.4mm.

NJReds
07-22-2008, 11:26 AM
Latest from Rivals.com in an article that highlights the top college draftees that have yet to sign (link (http://collegebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=828436)):


4. 1B YONDER ALONSO (MIAMI)
The latest: When Miami's season came to an end in Omaha, Alonso's wordage certainly made it seem like he was signing with the Cincinnati Reds. However, the All-American first baseman has yet to make a decision. Alonso was rumored to be asking for an MLB contract early in the process. Perhaps that's delaying negotiations. Though it's certainly possible that Alonso could return for his senior season, even coach Jim Morris expects him to sign a pro contract. Look for Alonso to sign the dotted line with the Reds before the August deadline.

cumberlandreds
07-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Latest from Rivals.com in an article that highlights the top college draftees that have yet to sign (link (http://collegebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=828436)):

What date is the deadline? I haven't read this entire thread so m apologies if this has been answered.

dougdirt
07-22-2008, 12:27 PM
August 15th

BuckeyeRedleg
07-22-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm already bored with Yonder Alonso.

Not a real exciting pick and now he holds out. ZZZZZZZZ.

cumberlandreds
07-22-2008, 01:08 PM
August 15th

Thanks. Hopefully they can get it done. You really don't want to waste a number one pick. This organization certainly can't afford that.

dougdirt
07-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Thanks. Hopefully they can get it done. You really don't want to waste a number one pick. This organization certainly can't afford that.

I think everyone is waiting for the first college guy to blink to set the pace.

Screwball
07-22-2008, 01:40 PM
I'm already bored with Yonder Alonso.

Not a real exciting pick and now he holds out. ZZZZZZZZ.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm plenty excited about a guy who, according to just about all professional publications, immediately becomes the #1 prospect in our system.

dougdirt
07-22-2008, 01:54 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm plenty excited about a guy who, according to just about all professional publications, immediately becomes the #1 prospect in our system.
Give it time. I honestly believe if Neftali Soto continues what he is doing, he will be the #1 prospect by years end in the system if Yonder doesn't play. Jim Callis said recently that the argument could be made right now for Soto to be the best guy of the bunch, including Alonso.... but he wasn't ready to go there just yet. I bet he will if Soto finishes .300/.360/.500+ in the MWL.

camisadelgolf
07-22-2008, 02:51 PM
I like Soto a lot, but I worry that his frame won't fill out as much as some people are expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if Soto ended up with Edwin Encarnacion-type power.

dougdirt
07-22-2008, 02:54 PM
I like Soto a lot, but I worry that his frame won't fill out as much as some people are expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if Soto ended up with Edwin Encarnacion-type power.

Encarnacion is on pace for 32 HR this year.... 30-35 HR power is pretty strong.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-22-2008, 02:57 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm plenty excited about a guy who, according to just about all professional publications, immediately becomes the #1 prospect in our system.

I know. It's just a tad frustrating that's all.

_Sir_Charles_
07-22-2008, 05:10 PM
Is Alonso a senior? If we don't sign him...what happens then? I'm guessing that if he's an underclassman that he'd go back to school and then be re-drafted the following year. But I'm not really sure.

dougdirt
07-22-2008, 05:17 PM
Is Alonso a senior? If we don't sign him...what happens then? I'm guessing that if he's an underclassman that he'd go back to school and then be re-drafted the following year. But I'm not really sure.

He is a junior and could go back to school. Seniors have the option of not signing and playing independent ball, but not too often does anyone take that route.

redhawk61
07-22-2008, 05:17 PM
He's a Junior

Watch, he won't sign, we will then get the 7b. pick next year and we take him again there and he ends up having to sign for less cause he lost his leverage

GoReds33
07-22-2008, 05:17 PM
Is Alonso a senior? If we don't sign him...what happens then? I'm guessing that if he's an underclassman that he'd go back to school and then be re-drafted the following year. But I'm not really sure.He's a Junior. If he goes back to school, we get an equivilant pick in next year's draft.

fearofpopvol1
07-22-2008, 07:53 PM
I think with next year's class, Alonso would go higher.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2008, 12:06 AM
He's going to sign, but it's pretty bush league by the Reds that it's taking this long IMO. Quit freakin around and get this thing done!

dougdirt
07-25-2008, 12:29 AM
He's going to sign, but it's pretty bush league by the Reds that it's taking this long IMO. Quit freakin around and get this thing done!

You pretend as if its the Reds fault. No one has really signed a top college pick yet. Are all of these teams bush league?

VR
07-25-2008, 01:13 AM
I think with next year's class, Alonso would go higher.

He has nowhere to go back in college but down.

Blitz Dorsey
07-25-2008, 01:16 AM
You pretend as if its the Reds fault. No one has really signed a top college pick yet. Are all of these teams bush league?

Yes, the Pirates and Orioles are bush league. Apparently the Rays are not.

dougdirt
07-25-2008, 02:00 AM
Yes, the Pirates and Orioles are bush league. Apparently the Rays are not.

They went over slot and MLB was not happy about it. Fact is, almost every year its like this. Everyone else waits for the first college guy to sign, then the rest follow suit.

fearofpopvol1
07-25-2008, 02:39 PM
He has nowhere to go back in college but down.

Have you seen the draft class for next year? It's infinitely weaker.

While he would have a weaker college team to work with next year, as long as he puts up similar numbers to what he did this year he would have a very good chance at going higher.

klw
07-25-2008, 03:33 PM
Have you seen the draft class for next year? It's infinitely weaker.

While he would have a weaker college team to work with next year, as long as he puts up similar numbers to what he did this year he would have a very good chance at going higher.

And he would be a year without salary (well I will pretend Miami doesn't pay), a year futher from arbitration, a year farther from free agency. He may make up the money by getting picked higher but I doubt it.

flyer85
07-25-2008, 03:46 PM
And he would be a year without salary (well I will pretend Miami doesn't pay), a year futher from arbitration, a year farther from free agency. He may make up the money by getting picked higher but I doubt it.It is hard to see how he could come out better more than a few pennies on the dollar by going back in the draft. If he had great athleticism I could see someone throwing a lot more money but since he is an average athlete at best who is limited to first base he really has little to gain by going back.

I think he will sign, close to the deadline. There is a logjam that likely won't break for a few more weeks.

_Sir_Charles_
07-26-2008, 03:18 PM
He is a junior and could go back to school. Seniors have the option of not signing and playing independent ball, but not too often does anyone take that route.

I kinda figured that was the case. Well several 1st rounders have signed now so I guess it'll happen fairly soon now that the market's getting set. Thanks for the heads up though.

RedlegJake
07-26-2008, 11:57 PM
Waiting it out is the leverage Alonso has - the closer it gets to the deadline the more the Reds might up their offer a bit. Not many others have signed so there is no hurry for the kid - I don't blame him for eking out every bit he can get.

As for taking him next year if the Reds get 7B - I think the rule is the Reds CANNOT redraft him without his permission.

Buster
07-28-2008, 09:21 AM
There is an article on Pro Sports Daily under ARod and Papi dinner date pertaining to Alonso and his connections with these two and salary comments as well.

Nugget
07-28-2008, 12:47 PM
There have been multiple articles and bits from the REDS indicating that its not really the money but the fact that he wants a big league contract. I think that if the REDS really don't want to give him the big league contract so be it. He has not played an inning of proball yet.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-28-2008, 12:51 PM
Shouldn't have drafted him if you knew he wanted that type of contract.

Do your homework next time. Who's running the draft, Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown?

LOL.

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 12:57 PM
DINNER DATE FOR A-ROD, PAPI
By GEORGE A. KING III

BOSTON - Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz shared a late meal Saturday night on the eve of Rodriguez's 33rd birthday at JER-NE restaurant and were joined by somebody Rodriguez predicts will develop into a star.

Sitting with the perennial All Stars was Yonder Alonso, a Coral Gables, Fla., resident, former Miami University star and the seventh pick (by the Reds) in last month's draft who Rodriguez predicts will sign a $7 million contract soon.

"Manny (Ramirez) and (Ortiz) are [my] close friends," Rodriguez said when asked if he often socializes with opponents before the Yanks New York Yankees ' 9-2 loss to the Red Sox last night.

Alonso is more than a friend to Rodriguez, a fellow Coral Gables resident.

"He hits at my house every night, still does," Rodriguez said of left-handed hitting first baseman Rodriguez compared with a young Jason Giambi . "He was my shadow for four months during the winter."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282008/sports/yankees/dinner_date_for_a_rod__papi_121938.htm

Grande Donkey
07-28-2008, 01:24 PM
$7 million? Am I reading that right? A 7 million dollar contract for Yonder? That is ridiculous.

dougdirt
07-28-2008, 01:28 PM
$7 million? Am I reading that right? A 7 million dollar contract for Yonder? That is ridiculous.

All pre draft Alonso said he wanted a 7 million dollar major league deal. Why does that shock you?

Grande Donkey
07-28-2008, 01:36 PM
All pre draft Alonso said he wanted a 7 million dollar major league deal. Why does that shock you?Wanting and getting are two different things. I knew he wanted it but never thought he would get it.

15fan
07-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Negotiation 101:

Side A asks for the sun, moon, stars and pretty much everything else in the galaxy.

Side B offers a couple of neutrinos.

If both sides play their cards like they are supposed to, it usually comes down to whatever deadline is imposed on the negotiation window. Said deadline is the impetus for each side to either go or get off the proverbial pot.

Once a deal is reached at the 11th hour (as it is in most instances), both sides can claim that they each got what they wanted. Win-win. Alonso shows up for a meet & greet in GAB, takes a few batting practice cuts, and then gears up to go play in the AFL.

It's all just part of the dance.

HBP
07-28-2008, 04:25 PM
Hardly any of the other big names have signed either. I'm not worried....yet

WebScorpion
07-28-2008, 04:42 PM
All pre draft Alonso said he wanted a 7 million dollar major league deal. Why does that shock you?
What's the record for a Reds' Draftee? Somewhere under $3Mil? Isn't the record for a #1 pick $6.15 Mil? The more I learn about this case, the more I think the small market teams like the Reds and the Pirates have intentionally taken guys they won't sign now that they get the same pick the following year. What have they got to lose? Offer him slot money; If he takes it Great, we got a bargain; If he doesn't, we get the same pick next year. Personally, I don't think the kid is signing. :( The Giants picked Buster Posey, who's publicly stated he wants $12Mil. :eek: There are still 4 guys in front of Alonso who haven't signed, so it is possible that our 7b pick next year is actually the 12th pick instead of the 8th. Something to think about...

dougdirt
07-28-2008, 04:48 PM
What's the record for a Reds' Draftee? Somewhere under $3Mil? Isn't the record for a #1 pick $6.15 Mil? The more I learn about this case, the more I think the small market teams like the Reds and the Pirates have intentionally taken guys they won't sign now that they get the same pick the following year. What have they got to lose? Offer him slot money; If he takes it Great, we got a bargain; If he doesn't, we get the same pick next year. Personally, I don't think the kid is signing. :( The Giants picked Buster Posey, who's publicly stated he wants $12Mil. :eek: There are still 4 guys in front of Alonso who haven't signed, so it is possible that our 7b pick next year is actually the 12th pick instead of the 8th. Something to think about...
Its tricky. If you sign a MLB contract, you can have your bonus split up between years. Last year the #27 pick signed a MLB contract out of HS for over 7 million bucks. His official signing bonus was like 3.15 million though.

NorrisHopper30
07-28-2008, 05:21 PM
If he turns out like A-rod it'd be worth it :-p.

Grande Donkey
07-28-2008, 05:32 PM
If he turns out like A-rod it'd be worth it :-p.A young Jason Giambi wouldn't be bad either.

Redman15
07-28-2008, 06:04 PM
A young Jason Giambi wouldn't be bad either.
So you think A-Rod has already got him on the Juice!!!

OnBaseMachine
07-28-2008, 06:11 PM
What is going on with first-round Draft choice Yonder Alonso? Are the Reds going to sign him or just throw away a Draft pick?
-- Michael J., Cincinnati, Ohio

Right now, there's a lot of feet dragging with all the top-level Draft picks before an Aug. 15 deadline to sign them or lose them. Among the top 10, no one has signed except the No. 1 and No. 6 picks. Agents aren't in a rush because they don't want to set the bar too low on the bonus money. And to no surprise, clubs don't want to set the bar too high. I talked to scouting director Chris Buckley late last week and he seemed optimistic that Alonso would get signed.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080728&content_id=3212270&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Blitz Dorsey
07-28-2008, 10:19 PM
If Yonder is friends with A-Rod, does that mean he's also friends with Madonna? (and Kevin Bacon?)

Who cares if he wants a Big League contract? He's going to be in the Big Leagues by 2010 anyway. If that is the major hang up, the Reds are bush leaguing their way through the negotiations. Are they taking pointers from Mike Brown and his family on how to negotiate contracts?

KoryMac5
07-28-2008, 10:25 PM
He would be in the big leagues in 2010 based on the fact that he would be getting reps in minor league ball. It is quite rare, but it does happen in some instances that a player makes such a leap. Alonso in my opinion isn't that kind of a player. He needs to put some time in down on the farm.

redhawk61
07-28-2008, 10:39 PM
He would be in the big leagues in 2010 based on the fact that he would be getting reps in minor league ball. It is quite rare, but it does happen in some instances that a player makes such a leap. Alonso in my opinion isn't that kind of a player. He needs to put some time in down on the farm.
Yonder has the type of plate discipline that even if he signs right before the deadline and doesn't get in any time in the farm this year, could still make it as a September call up next year.
Figure he would play Winter Ball and start the year at Sarasota move up quickly from there. He could be in AA in mid May b/c of the type of hitter he is.

KoryMac5
07-28-2008, 10:51 PM
Longoria played 205 minor league games before getting the call and he is a special player. Alonso is good but he needs to spend at least two seasons in the minors.

kpresidente
07-28-2008, 11:01 PM
If Yonder is friends with A-Rod, does that mean he's also friends with Madonna? (and Kevin Bacon?)

Who cares if he wants a Big League contract? He's going to be in the Big Leagues by 2010 anyway. If that is the major hang up, the Reds are bush leaguing their way through the negotiations. Are they taking pointers from Mike Brown and his family on how to negotiate contracts?

2010 is a year and a half of a FA contract for a middle-of the order hitter. We could be talking $20 million dollars. I'd hardly call waiting a month to see if he'll budge being bush-league. Especially given that it seems the be the precedent league-wide.

redhawk61
07-28-2008, 11:18 PM
Yonder still has a mush better eye at the plate, not saying Longoria is bad, but Yonder's walk rate is just that good.

In college Evan walked 12.6% of the time striking out 16.3%
Yonder walked 25.9% of the time while striking out 15.5%

in Evan's years in college he posted .320/.368/.421 for a .789 OPS in his first year and .353/.468/.602 for a .1070 OPS

Yonder in 3 years: .295/.373/.492 for a .865 OPS, .376/.519/.705 for a .1224 OPS, and .370/.534/.777 for a .1311 OPS


Yonder is a much better hitter than Evan at least in college since we have no MiLB stats for Yonder yet. The thing Evan's got is he is just a better athlete


Yonder can make it to the show in a hurry with the kind of plate discipline he has

dougdirt
07-29-2008, 12:42 AM
Longoria played in an extreme pitchers park in college too, something that really shouldn't be overlooked while examining his college stats.

redhawk61
07-29-2008, 12:55 AM
Longoria played in an extreme pitchers park in college too, something that really shouldn't be overlooked while examining his college stats.
agreed but when it comes to the plate discipline advantage that Yonder has, it isn't affected by the ball park.

Not being biased even but I think Yonder is going to be the more feared offensive player of the two. When I look at his numbers, skills, and even body types, I see a left handed hitting Albert Pujouls.

Any way just think about our offense if both Bruce and Alonso reach their potential comparisons of Larry Walker and by my account and a few others Albert Pujols. Our lineup is going to be very very very scary in a few years, one capable of putting up 1000 runs a year for awhile.

IslandRed
07-29-2008, 01:28 AM
Getting back to the contract negotiations, from what I've been reading, MLB pressures clubs in two ways:

1. Don't go over slot
2. If you're going to go over slot anyway, wait until the last minute to announce it so it doesn't mess up other teams' negotiations

I don't know what kind of contract Alonso will get, but if they're talking about a major-league contract or an above-slot bonus or both, it suggests we won't hear about it until close to the 15th.

OnBaseMachine
07-29-2008, 06:56 PM
First-round pick Yonder Alonso is the only Miami player yet to sign, but sources indicate a deal with the Reds likely will get done by the August 15 deadline.

http://collegebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=830827

flyer85
07-30-2008, 08:41 AM
I see a left handed hitting Albert Pujouls. wow, those expectations are going to be high. Alonso is 21, Pujols was already tearing up the majors at that age.

kpresidente
07-30-2008, 10:00 AM
wow, those expectations are going to be high. Alonso is 21, Pujols was already tearing up the majors at that age.

In all fairness, Pujols had the body of a 28-year old at 21. That's why he hasn't really improved all that drastically from his rookie numbers (which were phenominal in their own right!)


Point is, this guy has some chub that a professional workout regimine could do wonders for...

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/mifl/sports/m-basebl/auto_action/1977989.jpeg

Turn that baby-fat into some solid meat and he'll be pounding the ball.

Blitz Dorsey
07-30-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm pretty sure the University of Miami has a good S&C program. Maybe Alonso is always going to have a similar body as he does in that pic.

Unless they trained at BALCO, not many guys get a lot bigger after college in terms of muscle. You see a lot of baseball players get fatter as they get older, but not more muscular (again, unless they are doing something illegal in most cases).

redhawk61
07-30-2008, 12:24 PM
He's acctually not fat. Just a very unique build that makes him look it.

Watch this video http://youtube.com/watch?v=UKLrzcRz_Qo and look for when they show him working out with A-Rod and you can definitely see that he is not fat

BuckeyeRedleg
07-30-2008, 12:41 PM
Some Reds fans actually think Adam Dunn is fat. I don't know how many times I've heard that he needs to lose weight. Silly.

Spring~Fields
07-31-2008, 06:58 PM
Have they signed him yet, are they getting closer if they have not signed him yet?

OnBaseMachine
07-31-2008, 08:49 PM
Have they signed him yet, are they getting closer if they have not signed him yet?

Not yet, but every source agrees that he will sign before the August 15th deadline.

Spring~Fields
07-31-2008, 09:06 PM
Not yet, but every source agrees that he will sign before the August 15th deadline.

Thanks OBM

princeton
08-01-2008, 08:23 AM
Reds found $4mill yesterday

Yonder it goes.

fearofpopvol1
08-01-2008, 10:43 AM
While all money is part of the bottom line, I don't think the Reds being off the hook for Griffey's buyout has anything to do with Yonder signing. I imagine these budgets are completely independent of each other.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-01-2008, 12:04 PM
I find it hard to believe that an organization that worries about $3M here and $4M there would pay Corey Patterson, Javy Valentin, and Dusty Baker $8M to be a part of this 2008 trainwreck.

Redmachine2003
08-01-2008, 06:18 PM
Reds found $4mill yesterday

Yonder it goes.
And opened an outfield spot for say Votto or Yondor

TOBTTReds
08-02-2008, 01:02 AM
Reds found $4mill yesterday

Yonder it goes.

Where'd the Reds find $4 mil? They are saving $2m next year, nothing this year.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-02-2008, 01:46 AM
Where'd the Reds find $4 mil? They are saving $2m next year, nothing this year.

Within the next eight months they owed Junior the rest of his salary for 2008 ($4M) and the buyout for 2009 ($4M).

$8M total.

Today, they are now only responsible for half of that ($4M).

So, they have saved $4M.

DTCromer
08-02-2008, 12:34 PM
Good thing Miami lost early so we could get Alonso signed. :rolleyes:

Kingspoint
08-02-2008, 03:42 PM
Maybe they're not going to get him signed. Why else would they move Frazier to 1st Base. If Alonzo gets signed, he'll be on a fast-track to the Majors and will be reaching 1st Base for the REDS before Frazier.

I hope they're not that stupid considering how much money they've wasted on Cordero, Baker, Patterson, etc.

OnBaseMachine
08-02-2008, 03:48 PM
Maybe they're not going to get him signed. Why else would they move Frazier to 1st Base. If Alonzo gets signed, he'll be on a fast-track to the Majors and will be reaching 1st Base for the REDS before Frazier.

I hope they're not that stupid considering how much money they've wasted on Cordero, Baker, Patterson, etc.

Everyone says he's going to sign. From Baseball America to people close to the Miami program, they all say he'll sign around the deadline.

redsmetz
08-02-2008, 03:49 PM
Maybe they're not going to get him signed. Why else would they move Frazier to 1st Base. If Alonzo gets signed, he'll be on a fast-track to the Majors and will be reaching 1st Base for the REDS before Frazier.

I hope they're not that stupid considering how much money they've wasted on Cordero, Baker, Patterson, etc.

Everything is still at a standstill. Only three of the first ten picks have signed (#1, 6 and 10). Everybody is waiting to see who signs and how their numbers are. I'm guessing that baseball's push last year to lock in signing slots has the draftees and their agents pushing back to try to break that. We're not alone in not having signed our #1 pick this year.

TOBTTReds
08-02-2008, 03:50 PM
Within the next eight months they owed Junior the rest of his salary for 2008 ($4M) and the buyout for 2009 ($4M).

$8M total.

Today, they are now only responsible for half of that ($4M).

So, they have saved $4M.

The Reds are paying all of Griffey's salary this year essentially. The Sox are paying zero dollars for him this year (with the exception of the pro-rated minimum salary, because they have to pay something I believe) and splitting the buyout with us. We saved $2m next year, zero this year.

gedred69
08-02-2008, 03:51 PM
Maybe they're not going to get him signed. Why else would they move Frazier to 1st Base. If Alonzo gets signed, he'll be on a fast-track to the Majors and will be reaching 1st Base for the REDS before Frazier.

I hope they're not that stupid considering how much money they've wasted on Cordero, Baker, Patterson, etc.

From what I've read on this site and elsewhere, (Including I think, Doug the ultimate Minors monitor ), Frazier is anything but a SS.

Joseph
08-02-2008, 04:03 PM
The Reds are paying all of Griffey's salary this year essentially. The Sox are paying zero dollars for him this year (with the exception of the pro-rated minimum salary, because they have to pay something I believe) and splitting the buyout with us. We saved $2m next year, zero this year.

Negative.

The Reds and Sox are splitting the salary for the remainder of the year [approximately 4 million] and they are splitting the buyout, again 4 million.

2 million + 2 million = 4 million 'saved'.

TOBTTReds
08-02-2008, 05:15 PM
Negative.

The Reds and Sox are splitting the salary for the remainder of the year [approximately 4 million] and they are splitting the buyout, again 4 million.

2 million + 2 million = 4 million 'saved'.

Negative.

I know ESPN reported they would split the contract but this report I know is right.


Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com reports that Ken Griffey Jr. has accepted a trade to the White Sox.

According to CBSSports.com, the Reds will receive Danny Richar and Nick Masset while paying the remaining $4 million on Griffey's contract. Richar has seen his stock decline this year after playing 56 games with the White Sox last season, spending the entire year at Triple-A while hitting just .262/.321/.427. Masset has a 5.63 career ERA in 92 2/3 innings spent mostly as a reliever, but the Reds may view him as a potential fourth or fifth starter long term.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Negative.

I know ESPN reported they would split the contract but this report I know is right.

If that report is right then I would bet that the White Sox are on the hook for the $4M buyout, if they decide to go that route.

It wouldn't make any sense that the Reds have anything to do with what the White Sox are doing with Junior's contract in 2009 anyway. Heck, they may exercise his option for all we know.

TOBTTReds
08-02-2008, 06:05 PM
If that report is right then I would bet that the White Sox are on the hook for the $4M buyout, if they decide to go that route.

It wouldn't make any sense that the Reds have anything to do with what the White Sox are doing with Junior's contract in 2009 anyway. Heck, they may exercise his option for all we know.

I believe both teams have assumed they won't pick it up...why would anyone pay him $16,000,000? If they happen to pick it up, my guess is the Reds still pay $2m of that, but that i don't really know.

RedEye
08-02-2008, 06:28 PM
Can we somehow correct the spelling of Yonder's name in the title of this thread? Sorry... pet peeve.

Kingspoint
08-02-2008, 06:56 PM
From what I've read on this site and elsewhere, (Including I think, Doug the ultimate Minors monitor ), Frazier is anything but a SS.


We've got a nice problem....too much talent in the minors. Except we do have a huge hole at Catcher, and we still need a lot better starting pitching throughout the minors.

camisadelgolf
08-03-2008, 08:08 AM
We've got a nice problem....too much talent in the minors. Except we do have a huge hole at Catcher, and we still need a lot better starting pitching throughout the minors.

Pretty much every system as a hole at the catcher position. The Reds have some intriguing talent, though--especially in the lower minors. We all know the stories on Ryan Hanigan, Craig Tatum, and Devin Mesoraco, but it looks like Jordan Wideman's hitting is slowly coming along, and Kyle Day has been on fire in Billings. Unfortunately, if Mesoraco doesn't advance to A+ next year, the Reds will have a lot of mediocre-at-best catching 'talent' in A+ and AA. Between Eddy Rodriguez, Chris Denove, Chris Kroski, Jake Long, Jason Bour, et al, there isn't a lot to be excited about.

NJReds
08-03-2008, 01:40 PM
From the NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07282008/sports/yankees/dinner_date_for_a_rod__papi_121938.htm):


BOSTON - Alex Rodriguez and David Ortiz shared a late meal Saturday night on the eve of Rodriguez's 33rd birthday at JER-NE restaurant and were joined by somebody Rodriguez predicts will develop into a star.

Sitting with the perennial All Stars was Yonder Alonso, a Coral Gables, Fla., resident, former Miami University star and the seventh pick (by the Reds) in last month's draft who Rodriguez predicts will sign a $7 million contract soon.

"Manny (Ramirez) and (Ortiz) are [my] close friends," Rodriguez said when asked if he often socializes with opponents before the Yanks' 9-2 loss to the Red Sox last night.

Alonso is more than a friend to Rodriguez, a fellow Coral Gables resident.

"He hits at my house every night, still does," Rodriguez said of left-handed hitting first baseman Rodriguez compared with a young Jason Giambi. "He was my shadow for four months during the winter."

fearofpopvol1
08-03-2008, 03:08 PM
$7 million?? Yikes. That would be quite disappointing if the Reds went that high above slot.

KoryMac5
08-03-2008, 06:43 PM
$7 million?? Yikes. That would be quite disappointing if the Reds went that high above slot.

Teams like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have to start going above slot or talented players will continue to fall to Detroit and the Yankees. If the Reds don't go above slot somebody will.

FlyerFanatic
08-03-2008, 07:52 PM
Teams like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have to start going above slot or talented players will continue to fall to Detroit and the Yankees. If the Reds don't go above slot somebody will.

thats why the MLB draft is a joke..worst teams that need the players cant afford em.

fearofpopvol1
08-03-2008, 09:04 PM
Teams like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have to start going above slot or talented players will continue to fall to Detroit and the Yankees. If the Reds don't go above slot somebody will.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. If I'm not mistaken, no players, including the top picks this year (including the Rays/Pirates etc( have received that big of a bonus.

redsmetz
08-04-2008, 08:33 AM
I found this piece on projectprospect.com.


by Lincoln Hamilton
July 21, 2008
We’re over a month past the 2008 MLB draft and half of the 30 first round picks have yet to sign professional contracts, including eight of the first 11 picks.

Last year Major League Baseball announced a change in the negotiation timetable for Rule IV draft picks. Instead of the previous deadline of 51 weeks, teams now have until 11:59 (EST) on the Ides of August.

In the first year under this new system, seven of the first 30 picks waited until the August 15th deadline before all the t’s and x’s were crossed and the i’s and lower case j’s were dotted. David Price (No. 1 overall, Tampa) Mike Moustakas (No. 2, Kansas City) Josh Vitters (No. 3, Chicago Cubs) Matt Wieters (No. 5, Baltimore) Jarrod Parker (No. 9, Arizona) Matt Dominguez (No. 12, Florida) and Andrew Brackman (No. 30, New York Yankees) each took contract talks down to the wire and each ended up signing for over the recommended slot bonus. The seven players’ deals combined were worth $9.845 million more than slot.

Of the guys who got their deals done quickly, only four of the first rounders signed contracts for more than 10% over slot. And one of those, Rick Porcello (No. 27, Detroit) who went for more than $2 million over slot was a unanimous top-tier prospect who fell in the draft because teams didn’t want to pay him his asking price – an $8 million asking price was floated around, but he signed for a bonus of just $3.58 million.

2008's number one overall pick, Tim Beckham (SS, Tampa Bay – if you don’t know that you’re probably new to the site so let me say, “Hello and welcome to Project Prospect.”), has already began playing for the Rays’ Rookie League affiliate after putting his John Hancock on a deal that pays him $6.15 million – a record for any draft pick. But other than Beckham – No. 8 pick Gordon Beckham has yet to sign – none of the other signees have gone significantly over the recommended slot price.

The reason we’re seeing more stalled negotiations this year compared to last, is painfully obvious (Hint: the answer is in the second paragraph). Because of the inherent volatility in projecting future amateur performance, the hefty injury rate for young athletes, and the overall desultoriness 17-year-olds; draft picks this year are MUCH more valuable than draft picks next year. Clubs know this, agents know this, and players know this. So when it comes down to crunch time, deals tend to get done and tend to favor the player (in terms of getting more cash upfront than the Commissioner's office recommends.)

Pedro Alvarez and Eric Hosmer, 2008's 2nd and 3rd picks to Pittsburg and Kansas City respectively, were considered difficult signs prior to the draft yet neither slid in the draft, and Buster Posey (No. 5, San Francisco) despite deliberately trying to fall down draft boards with a $12 million price tag was still nabbed early. Teams would still rather pay an extra $500,000 to a young guy who will be under club control and has all of this best baseball ahead of him than perhaps $20 million too much in free agency for just a few years of a player’s decline phase.

The days of teams being afraid to pay big bonus or even try to negotiate seem to be over – the addition of a compensatory pick of equivalent value gives teams a nice fall back option should a deal not be reached.

It looks like all 30 picks will end up signing, but also that some owners will end up cutting slightly larger checks than they wish.

mbgrayson
08-04-2008, 09:55 AM
Saw this piece and clipped it:

2008 Draft Update:

With less than two weeks to go until the 2008 draft signing deadline, here is a list of the 1st round picks that remained unsigned.

First Round:

2. Pedro Alvarez (3B, PIT)

3. Eric Hosmer (1B, KC)

4. Brian Matusz (LHP, BAL)

5. Buster Posey (C, SF)

7. Yonder Alonso (1B, CIN)

8. Gordon Beckham (SS, CWS)

9. Aaron Crow (RHP, WAS)

11. Justin Smoak (1B, TEX)

16. Brett Lawrie (3B, MIL)

20. Josh Fields (RHP, SEA)

23. Allan Dykstra (1B, SD)

28. Gerrit Cole (RHP, NYY)

redhawk61
08-07-2008, 12:27 PM
http://draft.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/08/2008_draft_update.html
Reds -- Yonder Alonso: It hasn't been going great, but the Reds are still fairly confident they'll get it done. Look for it to be above-slot. An odd side note: The agent representing Alonso also reps Jim Morris, the University of Miami baseball coach. Yep, Alonso went to Miami...just adds some drama.

M2
08-07-2008, 01:52 PM
I was lukewarm to the notion of taking a 1B with the #7 overall pick. Paying above slot for a 1B on the #7 overall pick makes me queasy.

If Alonso played a more in-demand position, I'd have no problem going above slot, but there comes a point where you've got to wonder why you're paying a premium for something you've already got and can find again without too much trouble.

NorrisHopper30
08-07-2008, 03:58 PM
Lance McAlister just stated that Miami's coach thinks Yonder Alonso should come back to Miami.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2008/08/could-yonder-re.html

Matt700wlw
08-07-2008, 04:23 PM
...so Jim Bowden is back in charge....;)

flyer85
08-07-2008, 04:25 PM
Lance McAlister just stated that Miami's coach thinks Yonder Alonso should come back to Miami.
I'm sure he does.

redhawk61
08-07-2008, 04:27 PM
At this rate will have both the 7a. and 7 b picks next year....plus the Dunn compensation picks....Bob is gonna have to open the pocket book one way or another

jesusfan
08-07-2008, 05:30 PM
At this rate will have both the 7a. and 7 b picks next year....plus the Dunn compensation picks....Bob is gonna have to open the pocket book one way or another

oh... so we get the 7th pick back if Alonso doesn't sign? I wasn't aware of that...

Degenerate39
08-07-2008, 05:33 PM
oh... so we get the 7th pick back if Alonso doesn't sign? I wasn't aware of that...

I thought that the Reds would get the 7th pick in the 2nd round if they don't sign Alsonso.

redhawk61
08-07-2008, 05:46 PM
I thought that the Reds would get the 7th pick in the 2nd round if they don't sign Alsonso.
no technically, we get the 7b or basically the 8th overall pick in nexts years draft, and at the rate were going this year we gonna end up with the 7th overall, so we could have back to back picks, at least that's my understanding of how it works

OnBaseMachine
08-07-2008, 06:59 PM
Yonder talks
Posted by JohnFay at 8/7/2008 5:30 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

The Miami Herald ran a story about Yonder Alonso's talks with the Reds. Here's the link.Apparently, Alonso is asking $7 million. He says he's prepared to go back to school. He can ask for anything he wants. I'd like million bucks and to look like Brad Pitt. But it's not going to happen.

I don't think the Reds are going to give Alonso $7 million. And I don't think they should. If he was worth $7 million, one of the six teams ahead of the Reds would have taken him. These things usually come down to the deadline, which is Aug. 12.

It all seems pretty simple to me. Alonso wants to play professional baseball. The Reds are offering him a chance to do so and become a rich man in the process. If he listens to agent and goes back to school, more power to him. If I were the Reds, I wish him all the luck in the world and drop the money he was going to get into next year's play payroll.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a8238d28e-ca58-48e3-b614-7b76fed57fcb&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

The deadline is August 15th, Fay.

HokieRed
08-07-2008, 07:05 PM
I've got to wonder why we didn't know this in advance. This franchise really can't afford to just get nothing from first round picks.

OnBaseMachine
08-07-2008, 07:39 PM
I've got to wonder why we didn't know this in advance. This franchise really can't afford to just get nothing from first round picks.

They did know this in advance. There were articles before the draft that stated Alonso was looking for seven million dollars and a possible major league contract. The Reds knew this in advance and still chose him over others like Gordon Beckham, Justin Smoak, and Aaron Crow. It's all on the Reds if they fail to sign him.

HokieRed
08-07-2008, 07:42 PM
If they get no player out of the first round, it's a major failure for Jocketty. Simple as that.

OnBaseMachine
08-07-2008, 07:45 PM
If they get no player out of the first round, it's a major failure for Jocketty. Simple as that.

Absolutely. Especially considering they didn't have a second round pick.

redsmetz
08-07-2008, 08:19 PM
If they get no player out of the first round, it's a major failure for Jocketty. Simple as that.

That might be the case, but I think we're watching a showdown between management and the drafted players and their agents. Last I saw, only three out of the top ten had signed and it's only been a smattering more over that. Any player with eligibility left (juniors and incoming freshmen) have leverage.

I can't imagine that the players and agents care one bit for the slotting system (and can you blame them?) and I think they're interested in pushing the question. I hope they sign him, but if we don't, I think we'll have considerable company.

HokieRed
08-07-2008, 08:30 PM
Agreed on the slotting system--I never saw how it could work in the first place.

dougdirt
08-07-2008, 08:38 PM
Agreed on the slotting system--I never saw how it could work in the first place.

The slotting system is a joke though. Its suggested slotting, not mandatory. So players/agents can ask for whatever they want. True slotting means you get drafted at X you get paid B and that is that. No one would not draft the best player then. MLB's slotting system isn't close to being effective at all.

edabbs44
08-07-2008, 08:42 PM
If they get no player out of the first round, it's a major failure for Jocketty. Simple as that.

While it is a problem, wouldn't they get a comparable pick in next year's draft? That would probably take the major out of the failure.

_Sir_Charles_
08-07-2008, 09:17 PM
They did know this in advance. There were articles before the draft that stated Alonso was looking for seven million dollars and a possible major league contract. The Reds knew this in advance and still chose him over others like Gordon Beckham, Justin Smoak, and Aaron Crow. It's all on the Reds if they fail to sign him.

Well, those 3 haven't signed either. So maybe it's not all the Reds' fault here. I think these kids are under the impression that this is the NLF draft or something...7 mil is ridiculous.

LoganBuck
08-07-2008, 10:28 PM
I don't think the Reds can afford another whiff on a draft pick. The Jeremy Sowers fiasco's corpse still smells today.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 12:52 AM
I don't think the Reds can afford another whiff on a draft pick. The Jeremy Sowers fiasco's corpse still smells today.

Of all the Reds 1st round draft pick blunders (and there are tons to choose from over the past 15 years), Jeremy Sowers might have been their best one because it didn't result in losing any money.

AmarilloRed
08-08-2008, 01:07 AM
The Miami Herald articles suggests there is a 50/50 chance Alonso will play first base for the Hurricanes next year if he doesn't get the 7 million. I will provide a link to the article below:

http://www.miamiherald.com/606/story/632916.html

Kingspoint
08-08-2008, 01:15 AM
The Miami Herald articles suggests there is a 50/50 chance Alonso will play first base for the Hurricanes next year if he doesn't get the 7 million. I will provide a link to the article below:

http://www.miamiherald.com/606/story/632916.html

I don't see Alonzo as being that stupid. It's just a negotiating ploy.

CTA513
08-08-2008, 01:22 AM
Heres what Lance McAlister posted on his blog:


What happens if Yonder Alonso goes back to school?

Teams that fail to sign a first-round pick no longer receive an extra pick after the first round as compensation, but instead a virtually identical pick the following year; for example, a team that fails to sign the No. 5 pick one year will receive the No. 6 pick the next, rather than one in the 30s or 40s. The same compensation also now exists for unsigned second-round picks, while a team that fails to sign a third-round pick will receive a sandwich pick between the third and fourth rounds. -Baseball America

ChatterRed
08-08-2008, 02:14 AM
Okay, I officially hate Yonder Alonso. What a jerk. $7 million????????? He hasn't even played a major league yet.

I'm sick of this.

I need to give up professional sports and start watching sports where pay is not involved.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 02:16 AM
I don't blame him. You only get one signing bonus as an amateur--might as well try to make it as good as possible.

Kingspoint
08-08-2008, 04:17 AM
Okay, I officially hate Yonder Alonso. What a jerk. $7 million????????? He hasn't even played a major league yet.

I'm sick of this.

I need to give up professional sports and start watching sports where pay is not involved.

You can watch the Next Generation play kickball and team-frisbee.

Give me a rockem-sockem boxing match any day of the week.

redsmetz
08-08-2008, 06:17 AM
Okay, I officially hate Yonder Alonso. What a jerk. $7 million????????? He hasn't even played a major league yet.

I'm sick of this.

I need to give up professional sports and start watching sports where pay is not involved.

It's really not just Alonso and in many ways, MLB has brought this on themselves. Attempting to put a brake on escalating signing bonuses, they implement this system that is voluntary and yet leaves teams hanging try to stay within its constraints. And drafted players and their agents, I think, have decided they won't buy that system. There are a lot of drafted 1st rounders who haven't signed (from what I could find, just ten out of 30 picks - only one third).

If ultimately a significant number of draftees remain unsigned, MLB will have to go back to the drawing board. I imagine that making a slotting system mandatory would have to be addressed in the Basic Agreement, but I could be wrong on that.

But at this point, I don't think this is solely, or even mostly, a Reds failure.

edabbs44
08-08-2008, 08:01 AM
It's really not just Alonso and in many ways, MLB has brought this on themselves. Attempting to put a brake on escalating signing bonuses, they implement this system that is voluntary and yet leaves teams hanging try to stay within its constraints. And drafted players and their agents, I think, have decided they won't buy that system. There are a lot of drafted 1st rounders who haven't signed (from what I could find, just ten out of 30 picks - only one third).

If ultimately a significant number of draftees remain unsigned, MLB will have to go back to the drawing board. I imagine that making a slotting system mandatory would have to be addressed in the Basic Agreement, but I could be wrong on that.

But at this point, I don't think this is solely, or even mostly, a Reds failure.

Have to agree here...even if Alonso calimed he was going to demand $7MM, that is only the start of his negotiations. He is obviously going to shoot for the stars and probably settle for less. If he doesn't sign, it will suck. But at least they don't basically lose the pick like they used to.

But I think there will be a decent amount of liability on the part of the FO. Not only was the guy giving hints of being a tough sign, they also already have a younger first baseman in house. Add those up and the pick made less sense than you'd usually want a top 10 pick to make. If you are going to pick someone who may cause a (good) headache down the road by providing too much talent for the diamond, you better be damn sure that the player works out. Because even though he may have been the BPA at the time of the draft, 5 years from now all anyone will remember is that he didn't work out and they tried to force the pick.

MLB needs to fix the fiasco known as the MLB draft. Make it global and reign in the bonuses.

M2
08-08-2008, 09:13 AM
The Miami Herald articles suggests there is a 50/50 chance Alonso will play first base for the Hurricanes next year if he doesn't get the 7 million.

If I were running the Reds there would be a 100% chance he wouldn't get anything close to $7M. That's the kind of money that caused the Reds to skip past Rick Porcello last year. If they spend it now, I say it's a year late and the wrong target.

Falls City Beer
08-08-2008, 09:29 AM
Have to agree here...even if Alonso calimed he was going to demand $7MM, that is only the start of his negotiations. He is obviously going to shoot for the stars and probably settle for less. If he doesn't sign, it will suck. But at least they don't basically lose the pick like they used to.

But I think there will be a decent amount of liability on the part of the FO. Not only was the guy giving hints of being a tough sign, they also already have a younger first baseman in house. Add those up and the pick made less sense than you'd usually want a top 10 pick to make. If you are going to pick someone who may cause a (good) headache down the road by providing too much talent for the diamond, you better be damn sure that the player works out. Because even though he may have been the BPA at the time of the draft, 5 years from now all anyone will remember is that he didn't work out and they tried to force the pick.

MLB needs to fix the fiasco known as the MLB draft. Make it global and reign in the bonuses.

The pick makes all kinds of sense: Dunn likely gone and Votto a tweener.

I think they'll get it done.

flyer85
08-08-2008, 09:48 AM
Alonso has as much leverage as he will ever get. If he goes back to school or to the Indy league and waits for the 2009 draft he will have almost no leverage next year.

RedlegJake
08-08-2008, 10:54 AM
I hope they sign Alonso. That said, if it doesn't happen this isn't the kind of disaster it used to be. They'll get pick 7a next year, plus their regular first round pick. At the rate they're going they could have 2 picks in the top 8.

joshnky
08-08-2008, 10:54 AM
It's really not just Alonso and in many ways, MLB has brought this on themselves. Attempting to put a brake on escalating signing bonuses, they implement this system that is voluntary and yet leaves teams hanging try to stay within its constraints. And drafted players and their agents, I think, have decided they won't buy that system. There are a lot of drafted 1st rounders who haven't signed (from what I could find, just ten out of 30 picks - only one third).

If ultimately a significant number of draftees remain unsigned, MLB will have to go back to the drawing board. I imagine that making a slotting system mandatory would have to be addressed in the Basic Agreement, but I could be wrong on that.

But at this point, I don't think this is solely, or even mostly, a Reds failure.

Agreed. With so many holding out I really hope that teams stay firm. It would send a major ripple through the market if half of the 1st round picks aren't signed because of money. Eventually the players and agents will get wise and recognize that 3-4 million as opposed to 7 is still a lot of money.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 10:56 AM
I'd be willing to bet $7mm that Alonso signs this year, and everyone is freaking out over nothing.

M2
08-08-2008, 11:26 AM
I'd be willing to bet $7mm that Alonso signs this year, and everyone is freaking out over nothing.

IMO, that's a horrible waste of money. I'd prefer the Reds not make that deal. Matt LaPorta got a $2M bonus on the same pick last season. No way do I want the Reds to have any part of a 250% bonus inflation.

flyer85
08-08-2008, 11:40 AM
IMO, that's a horrible waste of money. I'd prefer the Reds not make that deal. Matt LaPorta got a $2M bonus on the same pick last season. No way do I want the Reds to have any part of a 250% bonus inflation.If the young man wants $7M I would tell him tot try again next year and wish him luck because he will have no leverage. I would offer him ~2.5M and tell him to take or leave it.

M2
08-08-2008, 11:46 AM
If the young man wants $7M I would tell him tot try again next year and wish him luck because he will have no leverage. I would offer him ~2.5M and tell him to take or leave it.

Agreed.

I've got nothing against Alonso, but a kid 1B is not where I want to break the bank. The Reds have got needs and that $7M could fix some holes on the major league roster this winter.

Plus, if the Reds and some others refuse to take part in this heist, next year's bonus demands are likely to be a lot more reasonable. IMO, it makes sense to wait a year to get a kid just as good at a fraction of the price.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 11:53 AM
I'd also bet that Alonso doesn't sign for more than $5mm.

redhawk61
08-08-2008, 12:04 PM
I'd also bet that Alonso doesn't sign for more than $5mm.
Yeah since the 5 mil to Iona didn't work out, It would see that they would have the money to sign him at 7mil(5 mil in Iona money and money set aside for the #7 pick)

I would have to think they will get him signed at the last minute, I think right now both sides are trying to wait for the other to blink.

Benihana
08-08-2008, 12:49 PM
I think he will sign as well. Hopefully they don't give him $7MM.

flyer85
08-08-2008, 01:14 PM
I'd also bet that Alonso doesn't sign for more than $5mm.I'd lower that to $3M

fearofpopvol1
08-08-2008, 01:20 PM
IMO, that's a horrible waste of money. I'd prefer the Reds not make that deal. Matt LaPorta got a $2M bonus on the same pick last season. No way do I want the Reds to have any part of a 250% bonus inflation.

I agree completely. I'd go $3M max aiming more for something in between 2.5-3. His best teammates have already left and been drafted so I'm not sure he has much to look forward to at Miami. He risks injury and being drafted lower and being forced to have no leverage next year.

Alonso definitely has leverage, but don't underestimate the potential risks that come with that leverage. Leverage this year will turn into no leverage next year.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 01:51 PM
Now that the latest date to sign is August 15th, I think everyone should just get used to most first round draft picks not being signed until around then. Alonso will sign, and it probably won't even be for half of $7mm. JUST CHILL OUT, PEOPLE!!! JEEZ!!! :)

Blitz Dorsey
08-08-2008, 02:06 PM
Maybe he should see if a pro league in Cuba will give him $7 million. What a joke.

But I agree he will sign with the Reds soon and this is much ado about nothing.

M2
08-08-2008, 02:11 PM
Now that the latest date to sign is August 15th, I think everyone should just get used to most first round draft picks not being signed until around then. Alonso will sign, and it probably won't even be for half of $7mm. JUST CHILL OUT, PEOPLE!!! JEEZ!!! :)

Seems to me you're the only who needs to chill out here.

Others are just stating what their ceiling is on signing Alonso. I think we all understand this is a game of chicken and nothing's getting done until probably next Friday.

Degenerate39
08-08-2008, 02:53 PM
Shouldn't have drafted a 1st baseman in the first place. Votto should be there for a long long time. And even if Dunn is gone the Frazier could always move to left field.

camisadelgolf
08-08-2008, 03:02 PM
Seems to me you're the only who needs to chill out here.

Others are just stating what their ceiling is on signing Alonso. I think we all understand this is a game of chicken and nothing's getting done until probably next Friday.

I'm joking, man. 's'all good. :cool:

Kc61
08-08-2008, 03:17 PM
The Reds went for an expensive draft pick. They knew it when they drafted him. They could have overdrafted, picked an obscure prospect, and signed him immediately. No, they went for a name player who had already declared that he would be expensive to sign.

Now, they should follow through and sign him. I don't care if it requires a big bonus and a major league contract. I would negotiate, but ultimately he must be signed.

Reds have a history of first round "reaches" and signing them easily. They often don't pan out. Reds also have a history of passing on big time prospects with major salary demands, several of whom now appear regularly in All Star games. We all know who they are.

Want to be a major team, get major players, major prospects, pay them, sign them.

Want to be out of it on August 8, don't.

kpresidente
08-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Heres what Lance McAlister posted on his blog:

If that's the case I wouldn't overpay a red cent for him. Alonso was consolation prize. There was nobody available at a need position they liked, so they went for the best all-around hitter left. I always thought there was a good chance he was just trade bait.

I'd rather them take their chances on a "do-over". See if there's a college CF, SS or P you like next year. Maybe that was the plan all along.

Screwball
08-08-2008, 04:26 PM
If that's the case I wouldn't overpay a red cent for him. Alonso was consolation prize. There was nobody available at a need position they liked, so they went for the best all-around hitter left. I always thought there was a good chance he was just trade bait.

I'd rather them take their chances on a "do-over". See if there's a college CF, SS or P you like next year. Maybe that was the plan all along.

SS Gordon Beckham out of Georgia was still available.

dougdirt
08-08-2008, 04:28 PM
SS Gordon Beckham out of Georgia was still available.

Thats if he is viewed as a SS. There are some debates on whether he will stick or not.

Kc61
08-08-2008, 04:41 PM
If that's the case I wouldn't overpay a red cent for him. Alonso was consolation prize. There was nobody available at a need position they liked, so they went for the best all-around hitter left. I always thought there was a good chance he was just trade bait.

I'd rather them take their chances on a "do-over". See if there's a college CF, SS or P you like next year. Maybe that was the plan all along.

Alonso is an excellent all around hitter, which is a "need" position for the Reds. He seems to actually hit consistently, both for power and average, which is a rarity on this team.
Reds already have a college CF, Stubbs. Want a pure, great college shortstop? Good luck drafting him (unless you have the first or second pick) -- and if you can draft one, he'll probably cost more than Alonso.

I hope folks that think this way recognize that the Reds are competing with teams that think big and are willing to spend to compete. The winning teams spend. The losers are outraged.

mbgrayson
08-08-2008, 05:37 PM
I will reserve panic and/or judgment until the 15th. I would go over slot for Alonso. Up to $7 million? Nope. Not sure how high.

Strider
08-08-2008, 11:07 PM
With the compensation being basically the same draft slot a year later, it really provides a safety net for the teams to hold the line. It makes the lines in the sand deeper between player agent and team.

As long as the status quo remains there will be these mexican stand offs every year.

While I don't wish this on any player...if someone like Yonder went back to school and got injured or tanked...where his draft position was remarkably reduced one year to the next...that would tilt the game in the owners direction.

In the meantime...we're just going to have to watch the game of chicken and hope the guys driving our car know when to zig.

:D

ChatterRed
08-08-2008, 11:43 PM
If the young man wants $7M I would tell him tot try again next year and wish him luck because he will have no leverage. I would offer him ~2.5M and tell him to take or leave it.

I agree.

I'd remind him that all the wealthy teams will not be picking early next year either and he will end up with about $2.5 million anyway.

Kingspoint
08-09-2008, 01:11 AM
SS Gordon Beckham out of Georgia was still available.


Unless he signed in the last 48 hours, he hasn't signed yet, either.

texasdave
08-09-2008, 04:04 AM
Found this while checking out various Reds' blogs.

http://omgreds.com/


Yonder to add insult?

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse for the Reds, a Miami Herald story says Yonder Alonso has signed up for fall classes at University of Miami and there's a 50-50 chance he'll go back to school. He may also be considering playing in the Independent League instead of signing with the Reds.

Not good. This happened to the Reds in 2001 when they drafted Jeremy Sowers (20th overall) out of high school and he went to Vanderbilt instead.

Only problem is the Reds used the 7th pick on Alonso! Does Alonso really think he'd move up into one of the top six spots after a great senior year? One of Alonso's advisors says the Reds and Alonso are way off on figures. Before you blame the Reds or call them cheap, rumor has it Alonso is asking for a $7 million bonus, which is absurd. Last year's seventh overall pick, Matt LaPorta (the key player the Tribe got in the Sabathia deal), got a signing bonus of about $2 million. The top pick in last year's draft, David Price, didn't even get the amount Alonso is reportedly requesting.

Don't know much about Alonso's agent, Greg Genske, other than his LS Legacy Sports Group used to be Jeff Moorad's agency and among Genske's many clients is Reds outfielder Adam Dunn.

The only silver lining if the Reds don't sign Alonso is (and it wasn't this way when Sowers stiffed them) now there's a rule in place where the Reds would get the No. 7 pick in the 2009 draft if Alonso doesn't sign with them. Whichever team is slated for the No. 7 pick would just move down one spot in that draft to make room for the Reds.

The deadline for major-league teams to sign draft picks is Aug. 15 (one week from today).

HokieRed
08-09-2008, 11:43 AM
I really don't care if we sign Alonso or not. If he doesn't want to play major league baseball as soon as possible, too bad for him. We'll do without him. I'm much more interested in Yorman Rodriguez. On the other hand, I don't think it means much that he signed up for fall classes at Miami. Obviously returning to school is his leverage; to make that credible, he has to make it look like going back to Miami is exactly what he intends.

NJReds
08-09-2008, 11:48 AM
Good luck with the St. Paul Saints, Yonder.

jesusfan
08-09-2008, 11:50 AM
oh well.. I guess we'll have two of the top 10 picks in next years draft... Take the best pitcher availabe first, the best hitter available with the other pick... Problem solved... Also, maybe the reds are going to throw cash at Yorman and knew all along they were not going to give in to Alonso and his outlandish demands...

Degenerate39
08-09-2008, 12:07 PM
What if the Reds don't sign either of their first round draft picks next year? Would they get 3 first round picks in the top 10 the year after that :D

FlyerFanatic
08-09-2008, 12:17 PM
time to go the rays route...just tank for years to get #1 picks year in year out

RedlegJake
08-09-2008, 12:46 PM
time to go the rays route...just tank for years to get #1 picks year in year out

The way the Reds are going you may get your wish

FlyerFanatic
08-09-2008, 12:49 PM
The way the Reds are going you may get your wish

i'd actually prefer that. whats the point finishing with like the 3rd worst record? if you're gonna lose, lose big.

edabbs44
08-09-2008, 12:53 PM
What if the Reds don't sign either of their first round draft picks next year? Would they get 3 first round picks in the top 10 the year after that :D

You only get one do-over when you fail to sign that pick.

kpresidente
08-09-2008, 09:25 PM
I hope folks that think this way recognize that the Reds are competing with teams that think big and are willing to spend to compete. The winning teams spend. The losers are outraged.

I hope people that think like this research the term "zero-sum game."

It's really a simple concept that eludes so many.

kpresidente
08-09-2008, 09:27 PM
SS Gordon Beckham out of Georgia was still available.

High risk prospect.

My point is that if the league is giving away free mulligan's, why hit out of the rough? Alonso was the best player, but not a position of need. Beckham was the position of need, but raised a lot of doubts. If we can get the same pick next year, why settle for a player that's not the right guy?

mound_patrol
08-10-2008, 10:22 AM
I really hope the Reds stand pat and don't go much over slot. MLB needs several players to go back to college or independent ball and fall flat on their faces. That would give all the power back to the teams.

REDblooded
08-10-2008, 02:39 PM
I would love to tank into a top 3 pick...............

redhawk61
08-10-2008, 02:48 PM
would be nice

redsmetz
08-10-2008, 07:28 PM
I really hope the Reds stand pat and don't go much over slot. MLB needs several players to go back to college or independent ball and fall flat on their faces. That would give all the power back to the teams.

I'm certainly not suggesting that we "give all the power back to the teams." Good heavens, they ran a fiefdom for 100 years and much of the havoc wreaked on MLB lays at the feet of short sighted owners who had a chance to change the system to be equitable for them and the players (who are, after all, the show we're coming to see). I am not keen on escalating bonuses, but the current voluntary slot system is fraught with problems and will continue to be a problem as long as it's the way it is now. It begs the players and their agent to take this approach.

Grande Donkey
08-10-2008, 08:28 PM
Screw Yonder and give me Kentrail Davis next year with the 7B pick.

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:20 PM
Baseball Prospectus predicts Alonso will get a $4-6 million package that includes a major league deal.

redhawk61
08-11-2008, 03:22 PM
Baseball Prospectus predicts Alonso will get a $4-6 million package that includes a major league deal.
So they are saying he is going to sign?

OnBaseMachine
08-11-2008, 03:43 PM
So they are saying he is going to sign?

That's all they said, they think he'll sign for 4-6 million and get a major league contract.

kpresidente
08-11-2008, 04:24 PM
I wonder if the timing of the Dunn trade has anything to do with Alanso signing.

flyer85
08-11-2008, 05:05 PM
I wonder if the timing of the Dunn trade has anything to do with Alanso signing.none

BuckeyeRedleg
08-11-2008, 05:52 PM
Hey, Yonder.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Gainesville Red
08-11-2008, 10:57 PM
The deadline is Friday, correct?

flyer85
08-11-2008, 10:59 PM
The deadline is Friday, correct?yes and if it happens it will likely be that day

Gainesville Red
08-11-2008, 11:01 PM
yes and if it happens it will likely be that day

Right, Friday. Wonder if the Jock will be back from the Dominican. You'd think he'd be spending his time trying to secure Alonso.

:dunno:

redhawk61
08-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Right, Friday. Wonder if the Jock will be back from the Dominican. You'd think he'd be spending his time trying to secure Alonso.

:dunno:
Maybe he secretly is... and going to the Dominican Republic is a cover...:dunno:

flyer85
08-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Right, Friday. Wonder if the Jock will be back from the Dominican. You'd think he'd be spending his time trying to secure Alonso.

:dunno:I would say they have their best offer to Alonso ... the ball in his(and his agent's) court.

Benihana
08-12-2008, 01:12 AM
I would be shocked if Alonso isn't signed

camisadelgolf
08-12-2008, 01:51 AM
I've already mentioned this in another thread, but if the Reds are going to give him a Major League contract, here is what they'd need to do.

Let's say Alonso signs a Major League contract on August 15th. The Reds could immediately option him. Would this waste an option year? Actually, no. As long as he spends less than 20 days in the minors, an option year is not used.

Then, on September 1st, the Reds could call him up and never use him (or play him every day--it doesn't matter). This way, he doesn't use an option year for 2008, and because he wouldn't have five full years as a professional before his three option years are used up, he'd qualify for a fourth option year. Then again, maybe he would be Major League-ready before his options are used up, and he wouldn't even need a fourth option year.

All I'm trying to say is, the only disadvantage to having him on a Major League contract would be that he takes up a spot on the 40-man roster. Seeing as how the Reds are willing to use these spots on players like Javier Valentin and Andy Phillips, I don't think it would cripple the organization too much.

By the way, I'd be completely shocked if Alonso doesn't sign. You don't trade away Dunn and get salary relief without signing your top draft pick. If Alonso doesn't sign, then the Reds terribly overestimated how many fans would be coming to the ballpark this year.